General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[SILVERS000]

Oda always has the future nakama interact with the crew well before they join but he gives each future straw hat a couple of members whom they're closer to before they join.

Chopper: Nami and Sanji
Robin: No one initially for narrative reasons but at EL she had Franky and Usopp
Franky: Robin and Usopp
Brook: Franky and Zoro
Jinbe: Nami and Sanji
Carrot?? : Nami and Chopper

And every one of them (with the exception of Carrot) has had a serious/meaningful interaction with Luffy before building that relationship with the straw hats

Chopper- Saving Luffy at the cliff and being chasedbecause Luffy is interested in him

Robin- Her interaction with Luffy after Whiskey Peak, saving each other's lives in Alabasta

Franky- Straight up fighting Luffy in Water 7

Brook- being invited to dinner on the Sunny

Jinbe- All of Marineford

Yamato- Straight up kidnaping Luffy and asking to join his crew

 

[Roosta]

And every one of them (with the exception of Carrot) has had a serious/meaningful interaction with Luffy before building that relationship with the straw hats

Chopper- Saving Luffy at the cliff and being chasedbecause Luffy is interested in him

Robin- Her interaction with Luffy after Whiskey Peak, saving each other's lives in Alabasta

Franky- Straight up fighting Luffy in Water 7

Brook- being invited to dinner on the Sunny

Jinbe- All of Marineford

Yamato- Straight up kidnaping Luffy and asking to join his crew

When you put it this way, I now realize... was Luffy the last of the Strawhats that Carrot met? She met Sanji/Nami/Brook/Chopper when they first arrived at Zou, then I believe she met the rest (minus Luffy) when she intercepted them with Wanda... Luffy had run ahead and met her last. Not that I think it means anything, but Carrot must be one of the few characters that met Luffy last lol.

 

[SILVERS000]

When you put it this way, I now realize... was Luffy the last of the Strawhats that Carrot met? She met Sanji/Nami/Brook/Chopper when they first arrived at Zou, then I believe she met the rest (minus Luffy) when she intercepted them with Wanda... Luffy had run ahead and met her last. Not that I think it means anything, but Carrot must be one of the few characters that met Luffy last lol.

to my knowledge, yeah he was

 

[dizzy2341]

• In the Amaterasu/Susanoo/Tsukuyomi parallel, Yamato was sent to the sacred cave, meaning she has to be the sun god Amaterasu... but Luffy is the one associated with the sun and the dawn. We had a very specific reference to a sun god named Nika a few chapters ago, so how do you reconcile Nika and Amaterasu? I also want to point out that people completely ignore the fact that Amaterasu hid in the cave and had to be lured out, while Yamato was held prisoner and was freed by samurai.

Yeah, good point about the Nika thing. I don't have any explanation. All I can add is that Yamao was originally gonna be called Ninigi, and the Ninigi from mythology was the grandson of Amaterasu.

• In the Momotaro story, Momotaro befriended the three animals and got them to help fight against the Oni. Momonosuke has very pointedly not met Hiyori in 20 years.

Momo has an unbreakable connection to Hiyori simply by being her sibling. The story never has to go identically to how it did in the original source. As long as the main point are still there it's ok. So if a pheasant helps then that's enough IMO.

• That Reddit thread you linked conjectures Hiyori as the pheasant because she has an as yet unseen Mythical DF which is also a guardian deity of Wano. Seems like a stretch, especially considering she could have easily gotten away from Killer if she was able to fly.

Sure.

• If it is true that Hiyori and Momonosuke's DF's make them guardian deities of Wano, that means there's even less reason for Yamato to stay, since she's just one of many guardian deities, not the guardian deity.

One way of looking at it. IMO, it just further links them all together. Hiyori can be the one responsible for helping Wano from home, whilst Yamao and Momo go out to sea to open Wano's borders.

Yamao is using her df for the first time only now. It is only just recently that she was finally able to transform into the oguchi no makami, guardian deity of Wano. That speaks on a symbolic level. Now she's finally able to assume her role as the guardian of Wano. I just find it really unlikely that this was all for a short moment at the end of the arc and then it will have no relevance in the future. Devil fruits are for life. Yamao will never not be the guardian of Wano through her df.

But I don't think that she has any DF or power. I'm worried about her if she goes to the rooftop. Maybe the other three can protect her while she fulfills her purpose (Give Momo the Ame no Habakiri?)

Yeah, I also find the possibility of her having a df rather unlikely, albeit interesting. If she did though it could allow her to not be a total burden which is still a big issue I have with her being the pheasant in general.
[automerge]1631741869[/automerge]

And every one of them (with the exception of Carrot) has had a serious/meaningful interaction with Luffy before building that relationship with the straw hats

Wrong.

Chopper- Saving Luffy at the cliff and being chasedbecause Luffy is interested in him

Nami asked Chopper to join the crew before Luffy even properly spoke with him outside of gags.

Franky- Straight up fighting Luffy in Water 7

Franky had already beaten the living shit out of Usopp before he met Luffy.

 

[Roosta]

Yamao is using her df for the first time only now. It is only just recently that she was finally able to transform into the oguchi no makami, guardian deity of Wano.

Unless there's an explanation coming, I see this as a writing inconsistency... it just doesn't make sense for Yamato to have 4 (?) named ice attacks (Nemuji Fang, Mirror Mountain, Hallowed Glacier Crash, Divine Swiftness White Serpent) without having ever been able to transform before. Maybe Yamato got some practice in before the handcuffs went on, but that would mean she got to transform before.

Now she's finally able to assume her role as the guardian of Wano. I just find it really unlikely that this was all for a short moment at the end of the arc and then it will have no relevance in the future. Devil fruits are for life. Yamao will never not be the guardian of Wano through her df.

Serious question: is there any precedent in One Piece for a character changing what their deepest desire is? It's easy to say "Yamato's fruit is the guardian deity, so she should stay", but has the devil fruit a person has eaten ever changed what that person wanted to do with their life? If the DF is why Yamato has to stay in Wano, it would be extremely awkward writing for Oda to give a character such a
passionate desire to leave, only to have them be chained by a fruit.

One other note: Kaido is "the" guardian deity of Wano, and Momonosuke has what appears to be the same devil fruit. He will more than likely become "the" new guardian deity and Shogun of Wano after he holds up Onigashima for everyone in the Flower Capital to see. I don't think you can really argue that the Okuchi-No-Makami is unique as a candidate for guardian deity (I also believe that the Yamata-No-Orochi is a guardian deity of Wano, but that's another discussion)... whether all of the guardian deities have to stay in Wano, I guess that's for Oda to decide.
[automerge]1631743425[/automerge]
Also, for reference:

 

[SILVERS000]

Nami asked Chopper to join the crew before Luffy even properly spoke with him outside of gags.

She was not interested in getting to know him, it was a means of getting out the castle, it wasnt till after Luffy and Sanji started chasing him that Kureha gave her his backstory, meanwhile Luffy was genuinely interested in him

Franky had already beaten the living shit out of Usopp before he met Luffy.

Franky didnt take the money it was the Franky family, but i will concede to that, when he went to the Franky house there was serious interaction between the 2 of them before hand

but my point still stands

 

[dizzy2341]

Unless there's an explanation coming, I see this as a writing inconsistency... it just doesn't make sense for Yamato to have 4 (?) named ice attacks (Nemuji Fang, Mirror Mountain, Hallowed Glacier Crash, Divine Swiftness White Serpent) without having ever been able to transform before. Maybe Yamato got some practice in before the handcuffs went on, but that would mean she got to transform before.

She just made it up on the spot. Kaku also had multiple named attacks after having just eaten his fruit. Yamao had sea prism handcuffs on so it was impossible for her to have transformed before. In addition, from how Kaido commented on it you can tell it's the first time he's witnessing it.

Serious question: is there any precedent in One Piece for a character changing what their deepest desire is? It's easy to say "Yamato's fruit is the guardian deity, so she should stay", but has the devil fruit a person has eaten ever changed what that person wanted to do with their life? If the DF is why Yamato has to stay in Wano, it would be extremely awkward writing for Oda to give a character such a
passionate desire to leave, only to have them be chained by a fruit.

That's not what I and others mean when we mention her fruit being the guardian of Wano. We're not talking about Yamao being forced to do something solely because of what her fruit is, we're talking about the themes and from a writing perspective. Oda often gives abilities that have meaning to the character. Big Mom has a df that grants life. Kaido the conqueror has a dragon fruit. Doflamingo the puppet master has a string fruit, etc. You can do this for countless characters in the series. The fact that Oda chose such an incredibly specific df for Yamao is really significant as it suggests her character is linked to a specific role, (protecting Wano).

As for the first part, Yamao has many desires. She'll get to realise them, just not with the straw hats IMO.

One other note: Kaido is "the" guardian deity of Wano, and Momonosuke has what appears to be the same devil fruit. He will more than likely become "the" new guardian deity and Shogun of Wano after he holds up Onigashima for everyone in the Flower Capital to see. I don't think you can really argue that the Okuchi-No-Makami is unique as a candidate for guardian deity (I also believe that the Yamata-No-Orochi is a guardian deity of Wano, but that's another discussion)... whether all of the guardian deities have to stay in Wano, I guess that's for Oda to decide.

The reason the guardian point is brought up so often for Yamao is not solely because of her fruit. It's baked into many different aspects of her character.

I and many others predicted that Yamao's df would be a guardian of some sort. We originally thought Byakko then Kirin, but the reasoning for that was always because of the guardian aspect. From Yamao's stated desires, her main role so far in the story, her character design, her name (final and OG), her attack names... They all point towards the same thing. Guardian/Protector/Nation-Builder

It's inseparable from her character.
[automerge]1631744757[/automerge]

She was not interested in getting to know him, it was a means of getting out the castle, it wasnt till after Luffy and Sanji started chasing him that Kureha gave her his backstory, meanwhile Luffy was genuinely interested in him

Nah. Nami may have wanted to leave early but she was being totally genuine in her conversation with Chopper. She truly was interested.

Spoiler

Luffy just wanted to eat him until he found out he could transform, which happened after the above Nami panels.

Franky didnt take the money it was the Franky family, but i will concede to that, when he went to the Franky house there was serious interaction between the 2 of them before hand

Spoiler

I never said he took the money. I said he beat Usopp, which he did. Again, all this was before Luffy and Franky even met.

but my point still stands

Not at all. Both Chopper and Franky disprove it, lol.

 

[SILVERS000]

She just made it up on the spot. Kaku also had multiple named attacks after having just eaten his fruit. Yamao had sea prism handcuffs on so it was impossible for her to have transformed before. In addition, from how Kaido commented on it you can tell it's the first time he's witnessing it.

That's not what I and others mean when we mention her fruit being the guardian of Wano. We're not talking about Yamao being forced to do something solely because of what her fruit is, we're talking about the symbolism and from a writing perspective. Oda often gives abilities that have meaning to the character. Big Mom has a df that grants life. Kaido the conqueror has a dragon fruit. Doflamingo the puppet master has a string fruit, etc. You can do this for countless characters in the series. The fact that Oda chose such an incredibly specific df for Yamao is really significant as it suggests her character is linked to a specific role, (protecting Wano).

As for the first part, Yamao has many desires. She'll get to realise them, just not with the straw hats IMO.

The reason the guardian point is brought up so often for Yamao is not solely because of her fruit. It's baked into many different aspects of her character.

I and many others predicted that Yamao's df would be a guardian of some sort. We originally thought Byakko then Kirin, but the reasoning for that was always because of the guardian aspect. From Yamao's stated desires, her main role so far in the story, her character design, her name (final and OG), her attack names... They all point towards the same thing. Guardian/Protector/Nation-Builder

It's inseparable from her character.
[automerge]1631744757[/automerge]

Nah. Nami may have wanted to leave early but she was being totally genuine in her conversation with Chopper. She truly was interested.

Spoiler

Luffy just wanted to eat him until he found out he could transform, which happened after the above Nami panels.

Spoiler

I never said he took the money. I said he beat Usopp, which he did. Again, all this was before Luffy and Franky even met.

Not at all. Both Chopper and Franky disprove it, lol.

Again my point still stands

Meaningful interaction with Luffy, plus building relationship with member of the crew, times story value, to the square root of Luffy wanting you in the crew = New Straw Hat

 

[dizzy2341]

Again my point still stands

Meaningful interaction with Luffy, plus building relationship with member of the crew, times story value, to the square root of Luffy wanting you in the crew = New Straw Hat

But that wasn't your point lol.

And every one of them (with the exception of Carrot) has had a serious/meaningful interaction with Luffy before building that relationship with the straw hats

You were specifically pointing out an apparent pattern that Luffy always had a meaningful interaction with a future straw hat before any other member of the crew interacted with them.

Besides, I think a whole lot more goes into a straw hat than what you just listed.

 

[Roosta]

That's not what I and others mean when we mention her fruit being the guardian of Wano. We're not talking about Yamao being forced to do something solely because of what her fruit is, we're talking about the symbolism and from a writing perspective. Oda often gives abilities that have meaning to the character. Big Mom has a df that grants life. Kaido the conqueror has a dragon fruit. Doflamingo the puppet master has a string fruit, etc. You can do this for countless characters in the series. The fact that Oda chose such an incredibly specific df for Yamao is really significant as it suggests her character is linked to a specific role, (protecting Wano).

I do think this take is more reasonable, but I will say that there are many people who take the more hardline stance that I was responding to. For me, Yamato becoming a protector of Wano against Kaido instead of for Kaido is how her DF's role as protector is being ironically realized, and going forward Momonosuke will become "the" guardian deity of Wano. We can also expect Yamato to fight for Wano in the coming great war, so if she goes out to sea for this battle, she will continue to "protect" Wano despite not being there.

As for the first part, Yamao has many desires. She'll get to realise them, just not with the straw hats IMO.

So do you see Yamato getting her wish for to live free and go on adventures, just not with the Strawhats? I guess we don't disagree as much as I thought! For what it's worth, I'll be happy as long as Yamato is happy with whatever she chooses going forward.

 

[SILVERS000]

But that wasn't your point lol.

You were specifically pointing out an apparent pattern that Luffy always had a meaningful interaction with a future straw hat before any other member of the crew interacted with them.

Besides, I think a whole lot more goes into a straw hat than what you just listed.

I was adding on to the point you made not disproving it

the only one i disagree with is Carrot because she has been with us for multiple arc and Luffy has shown no interest in her as a character or at least no in a way that would lead one to believe he wants her to join the crew

He knows her name, which shows she his friend, but no meaningful interaction between the 2

 

[dizzy2341]

I do think this take is more reasonable, but I will say that there are many people who take the more hardline stance that I was responding to. For me, Yamato becoming a protector of Wano against Kaido instead of for Kaido is how her DF's role as protector is being ironically realized, and going forward Momonosuke will become "the" guardian deity of Wano. We can also expect Yamato to fight for Wano in the coming great war, so if she goes out to sea for this battle, she will continue to "protect" Wano despite not being there.

Yeah, didn't mean to speak for everyone. That's just the reasoning of myself and a lot of others. And I agree with the bit about subverting Kaido's wishes, but I just can't understand why Oda would choose something so permanent for one of his apparent main characters if she was going to discard the position by the end of the arc anyways.

She could've just played her role in protecting Momo and Wano without needing to have her df explicitly stated to be the "guardian of Wano". Or if Oda wanted to take the extra step, he could've had it be a creature like a Ceberus for example. It still has the guardian dog theme so it also works with Momotaro, but is less restrictive in that it's not tied down specifically to Wano country. Straw hat dfs are so open. Rubber, human, flower, resurrection... They're so broad that there's countless different ideas that Oda can work with. Not to doubt his creativity but Oda's heavily restricted himself with Yamao by linking the fruit specifically to a role on Wano. Heck, as I said before, all of her attacks have some connection to guarding, protecting or nation building.

She will never not be the guardian of Wano thanks to her df. And that's not a bad thing. It's not like she's running from some horrible curse. She loves Wano! She longs to become a Samurai (warrior of Wano). She'd give her life for Wano's shogun, etc. There's no reason for her to try and run from such a noble role that she's clearly invested in.

It's why I said that the moment her fruit was revealed to be the guardian of Wano, it straight up confirmed to me that there was next to zero chance she'd join the crew. There's just no way around that.

So do you see Yamato getting her wish for to live free and go on adventures, just not with the Strawhats? I guess we don't disagree as much as I thought! For what it's worth, I'll be happy as long as Yamato is happy with whatever she chooses going forward.

Yeah, I've got an idea that I believe address each and every one of Yamao's desires in a satisfactory way: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...ew-members-and-the-grand-fleet.79/post-988987

Recent chapters have only added more and more to the idea.

She'll get to go on an adventure with Oden Momo, protect him, open the borders, be accepted by the people of Wano, become a samurai, make tons of friends with allied nations. It addresses everything I can think of, whereas travelling with the straw hats leaves many things unresolved. If in the coming chapters it's revealed that Momo needs to leave Wano then that all but guarantees Yamao is going with him IMO.
[automerge]1631749159[/automerge]

the only one i disagree with is Carrot because she has been with us for multiple arc and Luffy has shown no interest in her as a character or at least no in a way that would lead one to believe he wants her to join the crew

There is one moment.

Spoiler

Luffy calls out to Carrot in the same breath as his crew in a moment meant to highlight Luffy's strength as a captain. It's not just a random moment where he says her name, the whole chapter where this page comes from is one of the special moments where Luffy fully steps into his role as the captain of the straw hat crew. The fact that Carrot was included in the same manner as if she was an actual member is certainly a significant moment between the two. Even more so when you remember that the whole reason Luffy even dragged Katakuri into the mirro-world to begin with was as a direct result of him seeing Carrot getting hurt.

 

[Roosta]

She'll get to go on an adventure with Oden Momo, protect him, open the borders, be accepted by the people of Wano, become a samurai, make tons of friends with allied nations. It addresses everything I can think of, whereas travelling with the straw hats leaves many things unresolved. If in the coming chapters it's revealed that Momo needs to leave Wano then that all but guarantees Yamao is going with him IMO.

Hmmm... the one problem I see here is that, if Momonosuke has to leave Wano, I'd put my money on him leaving with Luffy. If he's the one that will guide the world to the dawn, and Luffy is the one that brings the dawn, and so on. I guess we'll need to learn more about this prophecy business to be sure, though.

 

[JoSeungHun7335]

Yamato has already stated multiple times that she is “gonna set sail with Luffy” = Yamato not joining

Carrot said sea is a wonderful place once & just few days trip = Carrot joins

Yamato stated that she unintentionally ate the DF just because of hunger & Kaido served the fruit not for her = Yamato is the guardian deity of Wano

RIP logic

 

[dizzy2341]

Hmmm... the one problem I see here is that, if Momonosuke has to leave Wano, I'd put my money on him leaving with Luffy. If he's the one that will guide the world to the dawn, and Luffy is the one that brings the dawn, and so on. I guess we'll need to learn more about this prophecy business to be sure, though.

Yeah, that's the big decider. I can see the reasoning for Momo to travel with Luffy based on one interpretation of the prophecy, but I've viewed Momo's role as something that happens parallel to Luffy up until they coincide at the final battle. At this point, if Momo is still travelling with Luffy post Wano, then just make him an official straw hat already.

But to me it makes sense for him to take charge in his new adventure. All his previous journeys he was either a toddler or was dragged around everywhere by his retainers. It would be a good show of progress for him to take the lead this time around.

Somehow the allied army against the WG needs to be formed. We're entering end game OP after Wano. The WG's great cleansing is about to kick into action. Someone has to unite the army. And I feel that someone has to be Momo.

 

[Roosta]

Yeah, that's the big decider. I can see the reasoning for Momo to travel with Luffy based on one interpretation of the prophecy, but I've viewed Momo's role as something that happens parallel to Luffy up until they coincide at the final battle. At this point, if Momo is still travelling with Luffy post Wano, then just make him an official straw hat already.

But to me it makes sense for him to take charge in his new adventure. All his previous journeys he was either a toddler or was dragged around everywhere by his retainers. It would be a good show of progress for him to take the lead this time around.

Somehow the allied army against the WG needs to be formed. We're entering end game OP after Wano. The WG's great cleansing is about to kick into action. Someone has to unite the army. And I feel that someone has to be Momo.

I would say being mentally 8 is too young for him to take charge, but then I remembered who the MC of this manga is...
[automerge]1631751462[/automerge]

Yamato has already stated multiple times that she is “gonna set sail with Luffy” = Yamato not joining

Carrot said sea is a wonderful place once & just few days trip = Carrot joins

Yamato stated that she unintentionally ate the DF just because of hunger & Kaido served the fruit not for her = Yamato is the guardian deity of Wano

RIP logic

To be clear, she only said "with Luffy" one time, every other time she just said she wanted to live free/go on an adventure/etc. I don't count the first time she asked for a ride, though.

 

[Raughtale]

Yamato has already stated multiple times that she is “gonna set sail with Luffy” = Yamato not joining

Carrot said sea is a wonderful place once & just few days trip = Carrot joins

Yamato stated that she unintentionally ate the DF just because of hunger & Kaido served the fruit not for her = Yamato is the guardian deity of Wano

RIP logic

No One Piece reader actually believes there's any hope for Carrot over Yamato, it's the recruit equivalent of arguing Sanji is stronger than Zoro, the minority that hold such arguments do it with the full knowledge that they're wrong but they have centered their fan identity on a hill they will die on so they will keep up the ruse with complete disregard of how absurd their arguments might be.

 

[JoSeungHun7335]

I would say being mentally 8 is too young for him to take charge, but then I remembered who the MC of this manga is...
[automerge]1631751462[/automerge]

To be clear, she only said "with Luffy" one time, every other time she just said she wanted to live free/go on an adventure/etc. I don't count the first time she asked for a ride, though.

Still, not gonna change the fact that Yamato said that she’s gonna set sail with Luffy twice. And when Yamato says it once again or Luffy finally says that he accepts Yamato’s offer to be a Straw Hat, anti-Yamato will cry me a river. And isn’t it obvious that Oda intentionally drew Yamato back to her human form when Luffy came? Imagine when Luffy sees her DF form. Luffy will totally DGAF if her DF is Wano’s guardian deity, and will insist Yamato to join the crew & the rest of the crew will most likely agree especially that she helped stalling Kaido + protecting Momo as Luffy ordered her to.

 

[Roosta]

Still, not gonna change the fact that Yamato said that she’s gonna set sail with Luffy twice. And when Yamato says it once again or Luffy finally says that he accepts Yamato’s offer to be a Straw Hat, anti-Yamato will cry me a river. And isn’t it obvious that Oda intentionally drew Yamato back to her human form when Luffy came? Imagine when Luffy sees her DF form. Luffy will totally DGAF if her DF is Wano’s guardian deity, and will insist Yamato to join the crew & the rest of the crew will most likely agree especially that she helped stalling Kaido + protecting Momo as Luffy ordered her to.

The "I'm going out to sea with Luffy" line does stand out as being really weird (Luffy didn't say yes, what gives Yamato the right to say this?), which is why I think a lot of people see it as a "red herring". I personally think Yamato has a specific reason for believing Luffy in particular would take her (possibly related to his dream, her knowledge of how to get a Road Poneglyph, etc.), and we'll learn why she said this once the fighting is over.

 

[JoSeungHun7335]

No One Piece reader actually believes there's any hope for Carrot over Yamato, it's the recruit equivalent of arguing Sanji is stronger than Zoro, the minority that hold such arguments do it with the full knowledge that they're wrong but they have centered their fan identity on a hill they will die on so they will keep up the ruse with complete disregard of how absurd their arguments might be.

LOL indeed. That’s why I put “RIP logic” at the end of my post to emphasize the absurdity of the arguments. It’s like saying that you know you’re wrong & lose, but instead of admitting that you’re wrong & lose, you put the blame on other people and look more like a loser