Powers & Abilities Oda did a deservice to have Sanji and Zoro jump mutiple tiers.

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

zoro and sanji arent the only one jumping tier mate
if you are going to complain be consistent
cause it seems like the major fighters in the alliance all had / going through a massive power creep.

 

[DonWick]

And I don't get your interpretation, prior to wano he never mentioned his training when using haki

Lol that’s because my interpretation doesn’t fit your agenda.

 

[BillSlipton]

So everytime that Zoro confronted Luffy’s opponent he get destroyed but when he tried to confront Doflamingo, Oda made him deal with Fujitora instead. Why make Fujitora stop Zoro if Zoro would have been destroyed by Dofla?

The very fact that Oda did not let Zoro interact once with Doffy, even tho, as you said everytime he goes against one of Luffy’s opponent he get « destroy » should tell you that Zoro was not weaker than Dofla. Far from that.

Law was never stronger than Zoro.

Laws casual feat of cutting punk hazard in half... compared to zoro using his strongest attack to cut a smaller moutain

 

[Gintoki]

Laws casual feat of cutting punk hazard in half... compared to zoro using his strongest attack to cut a smaller moutain

Yean Law can cut a mountain range meanwhile zoIo can only cut a small mountain

 

[Tai long]

Who told you they jumped multiple tiers?

Zoro was YC1 in early wano, YC1+ while fighting King and low toptier right now

Sanji was YC3.5 in Punk Hazard/DR and jumped to YC2 by beating Queen

YC+ tier and yet he would have lost to a YC if he did not get a power up

 

[Sir Yasheen]

the thing most people have difficulty with is all the monster trio being in Commander tier before wano even starts.

 

[Fn Lucci]

It felt less bs than giving Zoro adv CoC when he didn't show control of base CoC at all.

You made this up and it happens to go against what we can understand. First of all there's no rule in place to say he must, second...why do you think little kids unconsciously use Haohshoku, but it's out of the question for a guy who managed to even learn the other, conscious forms of Haki without understanding it

 

[pg13]

the thing most people have difficulty with is all the monster trio being in Commander tier before wano even starts.

I agree they definitely were All 4th Commander and up by the start of Wano.

 

[Franosuke]

You don't have to be a fanboy to see Zoro was never that far off Luffy since the beginning of the TS. We never saw what Zoro's cap was until Wano. Some people were just desperate to prevent Zoro from being at a certain level. The only arguments against Zoro until now were Luffy is the MC and Zoro's captain, and that he fought Pica. They just capped him at Pica as if that was Zoro's limit or something.

We had no reason to say Zoro would've beaten Doffy or that he was as strong as him, but we had no way to know he wouldn't have been able to pull it off either because we didn't know his upper limit. However, there was a reason why Oda never allowed Zoro anywhere near Doffy when he was completely fine with Doffy owning Sanji. Inb4 Zoro is not allowed to get owned, Fujitora did just that to him.

Now that he did as well as Luffy on Rooftop with 'a partial boost via off-paneled training+Enma' while Luffy received two major power-ups, we can finally say he wasn't below Luffy back in Dressrossa. We just didn't get to see his upper limit until now.

I do think Luffy was stronger with the gap being nowhere near what people like you want it to be.

No one's saying Zoro was or is stronger than Luffy—you can downright ignore them if anyone's actually saying it. It's just that he wasn't a scrub before Luffy that you all wished he was. There is no need to be so insecure and attack people just for that.

Yeah basically this. Idk why it's treated like blasphemy to say this--that Zoro is not nearly as far behind Luffy as some people think/want him to be

 

[WesMidnight]

You made this up and it happens to go against what we can understand. First of all there's no rule in place to say he must, second...why do you think little kids unconsciously use Haohshoku, but it's out of the question for a guy who managed to even learn the other, conscious forms of Haki without understanding it

Luffy, the CoC specialist, has the CoC control to selectively knockout characters, combat genius, with more understanding of ryuo than Zoro, who learned adv CoC from having it used against him twice, it was portrayed as an impressive feat and the culmination of knowledge, control and power.

Zoro just overclocks his haki out at full power through Enma, doesn't have the same weight or build up, and yes comes off as bs.

UNLOCKING base CoC is just a matter of genes and sufficient blooming from stress, not training or understanding.
Hence why an untrained Luffy unlocks it pre-skip and why Doffy/Ace can unlock it as kids.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Zoro before Wano was a solid YC3/2 level and Sanji’s not getting beat by any Veteran tier character except possibly Vergo or Who’s Who.

So they were both quite strong and trained during Wano, off screen, that made them even tougher before their big power ups.

I do think the issue is neither fighter had a good challenge in the New World before Wano to show us they’re strong. Oda kept saying they were but didn’t back it up. If Doflamingo had a worthwhile subordinate who could force Zoro to high diff and Sanji beat Snack in WCI, most people wouldn’t think twice about their power ups in Wano.

And personally I do think they both needed fights before hand. Showcase what they can do earlier so it’s a big deal when the All Stars have the edge against the Wings.

 

[HA001]

Zoro before Wano was a solid YC3/2 level and Sanji’s not getting beat by any Veteran tier character except possibly Vergo or Who’s Who.

So they were both quite strong and trained during Wano, off screen, that made them even tougher before their big power ups.

I do think the issue is neither fighter had a good challenge in the New World before Wano to show us they’re strong. Oda kept saying they were but didn’t back it up. If Doflamingo had a worthwhile subordinate who could force Zoro to high diff and Sanji beat Snack in WCI, most people wouldn’t think twice about their power ups in Wano.

And personally I do think they both needed fights before hand. Showcase what they can do earlier so it’s a big deal when the All Stars have the edge against the Wings.

For what growth though ?
Oda clearly had shiryu in mind for zoros coo growth
He trained 2 years with mihawk for coa
And he got coc and acoc with kaido king and enma this arc.
So what fights to push zoro and achieve what ?


Sanji should have had a fight on wci
There were enough jobbers there

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Zoro before Wano was a solid YC3/2 level and Sanji’s not getting beat by any Veteran tier character except possibly Vergo or Who’s Who.

So they were both quite strong and trained during Wano, off screen, that made them even tougher before their big power ups.

I do think the issue is neither fighter had a good challenge in the New World before Wano to show us they’re strong. Oda kept saying they were but didn’t back it up. If Doflamingo had a worthwhile subordinate who could force Zoro to high diff and Sanji beat Snack in WCI, most people wouldn’t think twice about their power ups in Wano.

And personally I do think they both needed fights before hand. Showcase what they can do earlier so it’s a big deal when the All Stars have the edge against the Wings.

Honestly I think Zoro and Sanji were both already above Cracker by the time wano started. Sanji discovered his invisible movement during WCI after he already beat a high veteran level fighter

But Oda should’ve retained drake and Kyoshiro as villains and have those two be pre raid fights

 

[DonWick]

the thing most people have difficulty with is all the monster trio being in Commander tier before wano even starts.

Because Zoro and a Luffy was and Sanji just wasn’t. We can post every panel of the monster trio fighting prior to WCI and you will see Zoro and Luffy winning and Sanji losing.

Sanji literally looked bad in every fight that he had prior to Wano. It wasn’t until he got his RS that he started looking decent. Immediately after that he got Germa power ups.

 

[bennbeckman]

At the Start of Wano Power Level

You can make an argument Zoro was in YC level whether it was YC level 1.5,2, or 3. Either way an argument could be made. The fact that Oda didnt even have Zoro go close to anywhere near all out on top of that being able to withstand Fujitora's gravity and push him back.

Based on what we saw Sanji do in WCI, and upto fighting Queen there is no merit you can make the argument he was on YC level during Wano. He needed a Germa infused awakening to beat Queen (which implies he was nowhere near Queen prior to that) not to mention he didnt fight any commanders in WCI on top of that in Dressrosa he got easily handled by Doflamingo was not even landing kicks on his fater in WCI. Sum up all those factors.

 

[Malio]

Lmao what a cope thread

Zoro the 🐐 always getting these nonce stans emotional lol...loving it :cheers:

 

[bennbeckman]

Because Zoro and a Luffy was and Sanji just wasn’t. We can post every panel of the monster trio fighting prior to WCI and you will see Zoro and Luffy winning and Sanji losing.

Sanji literally looked bad in every fight that he had prior to Wano. It wasn’t until he got his RS that he started looking decent. Immediately after that he got Germa power ups.

Hit the nail on the head. Vergo, Doffy, Judge. His best fighting feat was getting a kick in on Oven. There's no logical argument to suggest Sanji was on YC level at the start of Wano unless you try to pedestal him with Zoro shouting WINGSSSS

 

[DonWick]

At the Start of Wano Power Level

You can make an argument Zoro was in YC level whether it was YC level 1.5,2, or 3. Either way an argument could be made. The fact that Oda didnt even have Zoro go close to anywhere near all out on top of that being able to withstand Fujitora's gravity and push him back.

Based on what we saw Sanji do in WCI, and upto fighting Queen there is no merit you can make the argument he was on YC level during Wano. He needed a Germa infused awakening to beat Queen (which implies he was nowhere near Queen prior to that) not to mention he didnt fight any commanders in WCI on top of that in Dressrosa he got easily handled by Doflamingo was not even landing kicks on his fater in WCI. Sum up all those factors.

Exactly. Judge literally grabbed Sanji by his DJ and threw him. There’s no reason to believe he was commander level prior to Wano.

 

[Halyup]

The downplay of Zoro's DR powerlevel stems from;
> the downplay of characters like Pica, Vergo and Doflamingo.
> the delusional belief that Sanji and Zoro are equals or have similar powerlevel

Until that mistake is fixed, we will see continuous coping of how Zoro performed as well as he did in roof piece.

Its usually the 2nd statement
Let go of that belief and they will understand

 

[DonWick]

Hit the nail on the head. Vergo, Doffy, Judge. His best fighting feat was getting a kick in on Oven. There's no logical argument to suggest Sanji was on YC level at the start of Wano unless you try to pedestal him with Zoro shouting WINGSSSS

Yeah I don’t get why Sanji being YC2 level isn’t enough for the Sanji fans.