General & Others Oda needs to learn from Togashi on how to handle power ups and fights.

[LogicoftheVI]

The first problem with this thread is that One Piece is an adventure story first with battle elements not a battle manga with adventure elements. The power system is not as important as the other things that are going on in the story. Early One Piece was not about power scaling but more so about the creative way Oda handled the fights. Fans ruin it with power scaling hence why this thread is garbage to begin with.

• Buggy getting his body parts tied up by Nami.
• Usopp beating a fishman with fire, a hammer, and the rubber band of doom.
• Sanji blowing carbon dioxide into a fishmans gills.
• Usopp beating Perona with a balloon that looked like a hammer.
• etc...

While Togashi does have some a good power system, that is what his story is centered around, you guys are comparing apples to oranges in an effort to tear down One Piece which is laughable. I say laughable because again you making a bs comparison for the sake of saying your favorite series is better than someone else's. We could do this type of shit all day, it gets us nowhere. EX: There is no comparison between the two Togashi just doesn't have it. What is it? The drive to actually satisfy his fanbase by actually writing his story. See what is the point other than to tear down another fan base? Trash.

Yes and for that he loses his nen and his life.

Compare that to Luffy who has zero consequences other than shortening his bullshit life span.

Your first point is negated by the plot armor known as "Nanika" the biggest plot hole in the entire series. You guys use restrictions on Kurapika as justification while neglecting to say there is no limit to the power "Nanika" can use and no suitable explanation for why that is. That selective shit ruins your argument.

Luffy beat Doflamingo with a form that depends on haki, needed future sight to beat Katakuri and unlocked three types of advanced haki against Kaido to compete with him; in the three most difficult fights Luffy had in the series thus far Oda chose to make haki apart of it, again what I'm saying here is that this concept doesn't need to exist, it's very one dimensional, repetitive and is used by Oda as a scapegoat to make Luffy win and win in a fashion that just doesn't fit his character; Luffy should triumph because of his creativity and childlike applications of his DF, as he did in early One piece, that's what Luffy is about and haki took a lot of charm and creativity away from the story until recently with awakenings.

What is this run on paragraph? Good points but man that was hard to read.

Anyway I love Luffy's awakening because it makes me feel like Oda is getting back to early One Piece with this battle, which was crazy and unpredictable. HxH fights are predictable because of the power system we can all figure out what is coming but that is what makes OP different fans never know what they are going to get. That is a big difference between the two series. And as I stated above power scaling is a fan construct not something Oda was ever focused on. I do not agree that Haki has taken any charm or creativity away, especially when we see all the creative aspects of how Luffy (and others) incorporates Haki into his fighting style.

• Boundman
• Tank Man
• Snake Man
• and now his Awakening
• Chinjao coating the point on his head

 

[Monster Luffy]

Why discussion about Hiatus X Hiatus lol. It is also not consistent. Lucky for it dodged the bullet being in Hiatus, lol.

Anyways Hiatus fans doing the same thing the one piece haters say Oda fans doing all the time, lol.

 

[lee33]

OnE PiEcE is aN adVentUrE MaNGa..... last 100 chapters with zero adventure and nonstop fights. The logic of Goda cult worshippers are beyond help.

 

[Monster Luffy]

Togashi needs to learn from Oda on how to 'draw' not scribble manga on weekly basis.

Besides Oda need not to learn from incomplete work.

Hiatus X Hiatus can neither die a hero nor live long enough to become a villain. Hence, HxH fans jumping the guns.

Post automatically merged: Apr 16, 2022

OnE PiEcE is aN adVentUrE MaNGa..... last 100 chapters with zero adventure and nonstop fights. The logic of Goda cult worshippers are beyond help.

Says you who always acts like Oda cucked you.

 

[Law-sama]

Naruto doesn't belong in the same sentence with HxH lol

 

[Indigo]

OnE PiEcE is aN adVentUrE MaNGa..... last 100 chapters with zero adventure and nonstop fights. The logic of Goda cult worshippers are beyond help.

Yeah, we've been on a raid with non stop fighting for 70+ chapters

Calling this a adventure manga and saying the fights don't matter is just an excuse to accept the fights being low quality

If Oda is giving the fights 70+ chapters, he should care about the fights

Because in other mangas you could get two arcs filled with story and good fights with 70 chapters

 

[LogicoftheVI]

OnE PiEcE is aN adVentUrE MaNGa..... last 100 chapters with zero adventure and nonstop fights. The logic of Goda cult worshippers are beyond help.

Why do you frequent a site that is literally dedicated to One Piece? There has been plenty of adventure within the last 100 chapters. The whole Oden flashback happened (88-73 chapters ago) which was almost exclusively adventuring. Again I am not here to say one is better than the other. I am here to say your comparisons are invalid and just a means to try and demean others. But the fact you said the fight has been happening for 100 chapters with no adventure when there certainly was during that time (15% of your claim) proves my point.

Calling this a adventure manga and saying the fights don't matter is just an excuse to accept the fights being low quality

Says the guy with a shitty ass One Piece movie character as his avatar. Continue on clown (your avatar not you). And 70 chapters have not been non-stop fighting, what are you guys reading? How many chapters did it take Luffy to reach the roof top again? At least try to get your numbers right if you are going to use it as an argument.

Naruto doesn't belong in the same sentence with HxH lol

I did not even get to rant on why Naruto was even included in the opening post. But it certainly does not belong is a discussion about doing power scaling correctly, as we saw with Shippuden the power scaling in Naruto went completely to shit.

 

[Uncle Van]

Problem with One Piece PUs is that they usually come outta nowhere without any explanation, also at very convenient times. Bonus points if the character never questions how they did it and contradict themselves later or never uses their power ups when needed.

Ashura and DJ had no prior build up or foreshadowing. Zoro and Sanji just did it when they needed it. 600 chapters later, we have no idea what they are or if they trained for it.

In Skypia, Zoro showed Pound Cannon outta nowhere. In Thriller Bark, it was Great Dragon Blaze which is a fire technique. For some reason Postskip Zoro wanted a fire sword when he already used blue flames. It's as if he's unaware of his own moves.

Most of the PUs just don't feel earned and only comes about when the plot needs it in the heat of the moment.

 

[LogicoftheVI]

Problem with One Piece PUs is that they usually come outta nowhere without any explanation, also at very convenient times. Bonus points if the character never questions how they did it and contradict themselves later or never uses their power ups when needed.

This is a shonen issue that is not exclusive to One Piece.

Most of the PUs just don't feel earned and only comes about when the plot needs it in the heat of the moment.

Naruto, Black Clover, Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, do I need to keep listing them? Again you take an industry issue and apply it to One series. Laughable.

 

[Uncle Van]

This is a shonen issue that is not exclusive to One Piece.
Naruto, Black Clover, Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, do I need to keep listing them? Again you take an industry issue and apply it to One series. Laughable.

1. You assume I'm singling out One Piece
2. This topic is about why OP power ups is bad in comparison to a Shonen with good power ups like HxH
3. This doesn't take away or mitigate the PU flaws in OP
4. Not every Shonen has frequently bad power ups

 

[Indigo]

This is a shonen issue that is not exclusive to One Piece.
Naruto, Black Clover, Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, do I need to keep listing them? Again you take an industry issue and apply it to One series. Laughable.

Tell me of a single power up in Naruto that came out of nowhere in Naruto like Diable Jambe and Asura, go for it

and before you say "It's the nine tails, kyuubi"

The Kyuubi was set up from chapter 1, Asura and Diable Jambe? nothing

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Yet it only blooms for Luffy, sometimes zoro, but never the villain or any characters like Kid or Law who could rival Luffy.

Haki bloom as a concept only exists so that Luffy and the SHs win their fights.

Post automatically merged: Apr 16, 2022

wtf are you talking about, Kaido literally neg diffed Luffy in act 1 and now Luffy is on par with kaido because of Oda spamming BS power ups.

Yeah, Luffy got neg diffed because Kaido beat him with an AdCoC attack. Luffy trained to learn Advanced Ryou, and in doing so gained understanding on how to perform the same kind of attack that Kaido KOed him with earlier in the arc. Having newfound knowledge of how to perform said attack, he was able to use it as well to match that same attack Kaido used.

That's where Kaido had the massive advantage. Literally one powerup evened the playing field.

You guys are either blissfully ignorant of how everything has been progressing, or bitching for the sake of bitching.

 

[Indigo]

Yeah, Luffy got neg diffed because Kaido beat him with an AdCoC attack. Luffy trained to learn Advanced Ryou, and in doing so gained understanding on how to perform the same kind of attack that Kaido KOed him with earlier in the arc. Having newfound knowledge of how to perform said attack, he was able to use it as well to match that same attack Kaido used.

That's where Kaido had the massive advantage. Literally one powerup evened the playing field.

You guys are either blissfully ignorant of how everything has been progressing, or bitching for the sake of bitching.

So how do you explain Zoro learning Adv. CoC?

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Yeah, Luffy got neg diffed because Kaido beat him with an AdCoC attack. Luffy trained to learn Advanced Ryou, and in doing so gained understanding on how to perform the same kind of attack that Kaido KOed him with earlier in the arc. Having newfound knowledge of how to perform said attack, he was able to use it as well to match that same attack Kaido used.

That's where Kaido had the massive advantage. Literally one powerup evened the playing field.

You guys are either blissfully ignorant of how everything has been progressing, or bitching for the sake of bitching.

Lets just compare this to WCI

In WCI, it took Luffy the course of the entire battle against kata to develop efficient FS and even then, Kata still had better observation haki. Luffy needed to get a speed advantage via snakeman to beat him.

In wano, Luffy just becomes a CoC master. Luffy gets KO'd in chapter 1013 and then when he returns in 1026, he can magically just split the sky. Where is the growth? How did Luffy gain the ability to do that when he just unlocked ACoC 20 chapters ago and was subsequently KO'd only three chapters after unlocking it?

 

[Indigo]

Lets just compare this to WCI

In WCI, it took Luffy the course of the entire battle against kata to develop efficient FS and even then, Kata still had better observation haki. Luffy needed to get a speed advantage via snakeman to beat him.

In wano, Luffy just becomes a CoC master. Luffy gets KO'd in chapter 1013 and then when he returns in 1026, he can magically just split the sky. Where is the growth? How did Luffy gain the ability to do that when he just unlocked ACoC 20 chapters ago and was subsequently KO'd only three chapters after unlocking it?

Not only he becomes extremelly good at it, he also heals and recovers his stamina / haki in a matter of minutes just from eating meat.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Also, if the key to gaining ACoC was to simply master CoA, then Rayleigh is a retard for not teaching Luffy ryuo.

 

[Monster Luffy]

I

but never the villain or any characters like Kid or Law

These guys don't have drawbacks either like losing haki for 10 minutes or becoming a deadweight. Infact only Luffy had finite haki in the whole series. I wonder why is that.

 

[Indigo]

I

These guys don't have drawbacks either like losing haki for 10 minutes or becoming a deadweight. Infact only Luffy had finite haki in the whole series. I wonder why is that.

That finite haki shit doesn't matter because Luffy always heals, gets back up stronger and fights the enemy right after.

It's just a delay for the story, fake tension.

It's not an actual drawback.

Has Luffy ever completely lost an important battle because of this? no!

 

[LogicoftheVI]

1. You assume I'm singling out One Piece
2. This topic is about why OP power ups is bad in comparison to a Shonen with good power ups like HxH
3. This doesn't take away or mitigate the PU flaws in OP
4. Not every Shonen has frequently bad power ups

1. I do not have to assume because you did not say anything about any other series. I just went off what you wrote. If you feel it is an industry issue state that. I am nor anyone else here is a mind reader. Make yourself clear. You did not do that the fault lies with you.
2. Again comparing apples to oranges. This is just so the creator of the thread can try to tear down another fanbase and you are feeding into it.
3. Again PU flaws are a fan construct not a shortcoming of an author who isn't worried about power scaling. World building, creative and interesting abilities, amazing locations, and great characters with quirky and varied personalities. That is what OP is about while this thread is trying to make it solely about fighting.
4. The majority fall into the same traps. Again HxH is built around its power system while One Piece is built around the world, characters, and a deeper mystery that is slowly being revealed.

I am here to say this is a dumb thread not that OP is better then HxH.

You guys are either blissfully ignorant of how everything has been progressing, or bitching for the sake of bitching.

I would say bitching for the sake of bitching.

Not only he becomes extremelly good at it, he also heals and recovers his stamina / haki in a matter of minutes just from eating meat.

Meat has always healed Luffy this is nothing new, plus it is a fictional story with fiction story logic. Milk also fixed Luffy's broken tooth and Brooks cracked scull.

These guys don't have drawbacks either like losing haki for 10 minutes or becoming a deadweight. Infact only Luffy had finite haki in the whole series. I wonder why is that.

This is a good argument that counters the restriction argument for Kurapika perfectly. Luffy does have restrictions and drawbacks but they choose to ignore that fact because......agendas exist.

That finite haki shit doesn't matter because Luffy always heals, gets back up stronger and fights the enemy right after.

This is literally every Shonen protagonist including Gon.

 

[Fn Lucci]

Luffy beat Doflamingo with a form that depends on haki, needed future sight to beat Katakuri and unlocked three types of advanced haki against Kaido to compete with him; in the three most difficult fights Luffy had in the series thus far Oda chose to make haki apart of it, again what I'm saying here is that this concept doesn't need to exist, it's very one dimensional, repetitive and is used by Oda as a scapegoat to make Luffy win and win in a fashion that just doesn't fit his character; Luffy should triumph because of his creativity and childlike applications of his DF, as he did in early One piece, that's what Luffy is about and haki took a lot of charm and creativity away from the story until recently with awakenings.

1. He didn't beat Doflamingo with Haki. Gear 4 has a time limit, Doflamingo figured it out and ran the clock. Luffy survived because he had others stall until he could put everything in one big shot.

2. Katakuri had future sight though. Two guys with the same ability that he was arguably better at since he was more experienced, and without question he had the harder armament even compared to Gear 4.

3. Three types of Haki? Um, two, one of which Kaido already has. And it would be for nothing if he didn't have the awakening. Also, Zoro was able to cause serious damage without his more advanced Haki.

4. It doesn't get more childlike than Gear 5, but sure, that's opinion. I don't think coincidentally being immune to lightning is childlike ingenuity either, but that's what got him through.

There are some very rushed elements to Haki but to say it comes down to who has better Haki just isn't true when more than half of the crew can't even use it. Even if you wanted to say it about Zoro, Jinbe, and Sanji, we still have the wins for Killer, Robin, Franky, Raizo, Inu, Neko, Kid, and Law having nothing to do with improving or boasting Haki.