Character Discussion Oda should’ve done a better job at portraying BB as a schemer

#1
One of the problems I have with BB is that it seems like Oda can’t decide if BB is really a master schemer or dumbass who gets very lucky. Let’s look at BB’s various plans throughout the series.

His very first plan in his quest to conquer the world was to just hope that he’d stumble upon the Yami one day. Not exactly a clever plan.

His second plan was to become a Warlord so he could go to Impel Down and recruit the strongest Level 6 prisoners. He didn’t have a defined plan for how he’d do this until he noticed Luffy rising quickly as a pirate and decided that turning in Luffy could give him an invite to the Warlords. If BB went with his original plan, he’d have just straight up died at ID since he’d get trashed by Magellan, and Shiryu wouldn’t be roaming around to save him. If BB didn’t get lucky and have Ace hunt him down (something which he seemingly didn’t plan for), he would have died. Even if he somehow didn’t die at ID, he wouldn’t be able to steal the Gura as quickly as he did since WB wouldn’t go to MF.

His third plan was to jump a severely weakened WB and steal his fruit. BB got his ass kicked by a 2 HP WB and would’ve died if WB was just slightly more healthy. He also probably would’ve been killed by the Marines if Shanks didn’t stop the war.

His 4th plan was to use Bonney as bait to steal a Marine battleship. This ended up failing spectacularly since Akainu came to capture Bonney and the BBPs had to run away.

Now let’s look at BB’s post-TS plans, which have been really bad and underwhelming so far.

1. Send Burgess by himself to secure the Mera, a very powerful fruit. We all know how well that went.

2. Sail all the way to Amazon Lily, with only Devon and Shot as backup, to steal the Mero, and presumably make it his 3rd DF? The Mero is a good fruit, but it’s certainly not on the same level as the Yami and Gura, and idk why BB thought it’d be a good fit for him. He ended up failing to secure the Mero. He did manage to steal Coby, but he had no way of knowing Coby would be there, so this is just another example of BB getting lucky.

3. Use Coby as blackmail so that the WG will be forced to make him a king. Does anyone really believe that this would have worked out as BB intended? Even Kuzan didn’t think it would. BB got super lucky that Coby was actually Garp’s protege (something he couldn’t have possibly known), and that Garp himself decided to go to Hachinosu to free Coby. BB ended up having Coby traded for Garp, which works out much better for him since Garp is a much better bargaining chip, but again, this was pure luck for BB

4. Jump whichever one of the Kid, Heart, or SH Pirates went on the route to Winner Island to steal their RP rubbings, but bring only Burgess, Augur, and Doc Q as backup. Sure, if he ran into the Kid or Heart Pirates, he could beat them fairly easily and get their rubbings, but if he ran into the SHPs, he’d have died. I have current BB beating current Luffy high/extreme diff, but the rest of the SHs would make short work of Burgess, Augur, and Doc Q and help Luffy beat BB

Also, it’s super weird how BB doesn’t seem to have any particular fruit in mind for his 3rd DF. First, he tried to get the Mero of all fruits. Then he considered stealing the Ope for himself, which would be a good pick since it is a top 5 fruit, but it didn’t even seem like that was his intention from the get-go when he jumped Law. Seems like BB may just get lucky again and stumble upon a Mythical Zoan God Fruit
 
#6
One of the problems I have with BB is that it seems like Oda can’t decide if BB is really a master schemer or dumbass who gets very lucky.
He is both at the same time, and that’s why he’s my favorite character by a landslide. The way bb achieves things is significantly more realistic than an Aizen, Light or Lelouch. In the real world, you often have a plan where lots of things go well and several don’t. (Or more) Things may or may work out, and rarely exactly how you expected them to.


“It’s all a part of the plan… not that it’s gone smoothly” is the essence of teach’s rise. It wouldn’t have happened without his ambition or his scheming. It also wouldn't have happened without him catching several key lucky breaks. And in most cases, it wasn’t entirely dumb luck, but a combination of his strength, charisma, and the people he recruited.

He’s calculated, but sloppy. Strong, but cowardly. Ambitious, but willing to leave things to fate. A complex character with a complex arc. A rarity in one piece.
 

Uncle Van

Bullets don't hurt. But Taxes do.
#7
He is both at the same time, and that’s why he’s my favorite character by a landslide. The way bb achieves things is significantly more realistic than an Aizen, Light or Lelouch. In the real world, you often have a plan where lots of things go well and several don’t. (Or more) Things may or may work out, and rarely exactly how you expected them to.


“It’s all a part of the plan… not that it’s gone smoothly” is the essence of teach’s rise. It wouldn’t have happened without his ambition or his scheming. It also wouldn't have happened without him catching several key lucky breaks. And in most cases, it wasn’t entirely dumb luck, but a combination of his strength, charisma, and the people he recruited.

He’s calculated, but sloppy. Strong, but cowardly. Ambitious, but very willing to put it on hold. A complex character with a complex arc. A rarity in one piece.
That's basically all Teach is. He always schemed to become a Warlord, get into Impel Down, and kill WB. Him achieving all of this the way he did was thanks to luck(or fate).
 
#8
He is both at the same time, and that’s why he’s my favorite character by a landslide. The way bb achieves things is significantly more realistic than an Aizen, Light or Lelouch. In the real world, you often have a plan where lots of things go well and several don’t. (Or more) Things may or may work out, and rarely exactly how you expected them to.


“It’s all a part of the plan… not that it’s gone smoothly” is the essence of teach’s rise. It wouldn’t have happened without his ambition or his scheming. It also wouldn't have happened without him catching several key lucky breaks. And in most cases, it wasn’t entirely dumb luck, but a combination of his strength, charisma, and the people he recruited.

He’s calculated, but sloppy. Strong, but cowardly. Ambitious, but willing to leave things to fate. A complex character with a complex arc. A rarity in one piece.
Sure, but some of his plans are just straight up trash. Like turning in a 100 mil bounty scrub to become a Warlord, and also trying to use his position to raid ID. It was also stupid of him to think that Coby is actually valuable enough that the WG would actually make him a king to get Coby back. He had a straight up 1/3 chance of facing a full-on Yonko crew at Winner Island, yet he chose to bring only 3 of his commanders with him, and not even 3 of the stronger ones at that.
 
#10
Don't think he's ever been portrayed as this super intelligent schemer tbh, like he has a rough plan, but 9 times out of 10 he'd have died if not for insane luck, he'd have been eviscerated on Winner Island if the Straw Hats went there.

Actually, now that I think about it, his entire plan hinged on luck from the beginning lmao, he bet on finding one specific fruit and was ready to give up his goal if he didn't get it, that's 100% relying on luck and nothing else.
 
#11
One of the problems I have with BB is that it seems like Oda can’t decide if BB is really a master schemer or dumbass who gets very lucky. Let’s look at BB’s various plans throughout the series.
Good point. His portrayal do have some contradiction IMO. As you said, its like Oda cant decide. I would prefer a master schemer if Oda wants to show his cowardice. But then Whitebeard says, he is reckless - come on, a master schemer shouldnt be reckless. If you want him to be reckless, then dont make him beg for his life or run away - make him a juggarnaut. Lets see where Oda is going with his characterization - Blackbeard hasnt really been fleshed out as there are mysteries surrounding his character. As he is Oda's favorite real life pirate (which is in fact true for 90% pirate story lovers), I have high hopes.
 
#13
Sure, but some of his plans are just straight up trash. Like turning in a 100 mil bounty scrub to become a Warlord, and also trying to use his position to raid ID. It was also stupid of him to think that Coby is actually valuable enough that the WG would actually make him a king to get Coby back. He had a straight up 1/3 chance of facing a full-on Yonko crew at Winner Island, yet he chose to bring only 3 of his commanders with him, and not even 3 of the stronger ones at that.
I think we can all agree that bounties have incurred significant inflation since the early periods of the manga. At the time, 300 mil was around what Oda anchored as being the high end for a schichibukai. Luffy’s 100 mil was considered a big deal, especially with how quickly he obtained it. Besides that, the plan was quite sound. Teach wanted crocodiles spot. What better way to prove that he was worthy of it than to beat the guy that beat him?

At winner island, accurately or not, teach assumed that he was solidly capable of defeating any of the 3 and their crews. This is a case of his typical hubris, but it wasn’t completely unfounded. He defeated law soundly and likely would’ve done the same to Kidd. I don’t think he viewed Luffy as significantly strongly. Either way he likely sees him as a rookie who he can dispose of at will, just like Greenbull did. And we still don’t know the true extent of teach’s strength. He very well could be as strong as he fancies himself.

Political hostages work very similarly in the real world as well. Certain world leaders take what they can get, then play those hands as strongly as they can, sometimes to great effect.

That's basically all Teach is. He always schemed to become a Warlord, get into Impel Down, and kill WB. Him achieving all of this the way he did was thanks to luck(or fate).
To be fair, most celebrities, top politicians, business leaders and even athletes would probably tell you they got to where they are in no small part due to lucky breaks, at least if they were being honest.
 
#14
Good point. His portrayal do have some contradiction IMO. As you said, its like Oda cant decide. I would prefer a master schemer if Oda wants to show his cowardice. But then Whitebeard says, he is reckless - come on, a master schemer shouldnt be reckless. If you want him to be reckless, then dont make him beg for his life or run away - make him a juggarnaut. Lets see where Oda is going with his characterization - Blackbeard hasnt really been fleshed out as there are mysteries surrounding his character. As he is Oda's favorite real life pirate (which is in fact true for 90% pirate story lovers), I have high hopes.
I think Oda might pull a Moon Knight with BB tbh. It was mentioned in a magazine that he had 2 sisters. Maybe his body is weird because there's 3 souls living in it
 
#16
Because dude has no aura at all.

I mean Look at Madara , Aizen the real schemers and then we have a Hippo.

:sanmoji:

Put Ace/marco in place of BB and bro would look like a real Schemer
 
#17
Not just plans

Things go his way also


Luffy gets away
Ace shows up


Magellan almost kills him
Shiryu shows up

He coming back to Hachinosu and half his crew have upgraded coby to garp.
Sure just saying people say its contradicting which is not so
He makes a daring plan. Than it either pays off or it doesn't and he just try something else

Which is a different archtype than let say a doffy or law which make a elaborate plan and seeth and mald when it doesn't work
 
#18
I think the very first "plan" you pointed out kinda reveals how Teach approaches things. Dude was pretty much willing to let fate decide if he would pursue his goal are just give up on it entirely. If the Yami didn't come to him, he seemingly would have just continued sailing with the WB pirates without ever fulfilling his ambition. The fact that he miraculously stumbled upon the fruit he dreamed about is what pushed him to make his move. He genuinely believes that fate put him on the path he is in, and is willing to let fate dictate whether he succeeds or not in the future. Would say it's a pretty interesting mentality for a villain and works well enough paralleled with Luffy, who also constantly enjoys lucky circumstances on his journey

The Coby blackmail thing was extremely dumb though, I agree.
 
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TheAncientCenturion

I will never forgive Oda
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#20
4. Jump whichever one of the Kid, Heart, or SH Pirates went on the route to Winner Island to steal their RP rubbings, but bring only Burgess, Augur, and Doc Q as backup. Sure, if he ran into the Kid or Heart Pirates, he could beat them fairly easily and get their rubbings, but if he ran into the SHPs, he’d have died. I have current BB beating current Luffy high/extreme diff, but the rest of the SHs would make short work of Burgess, Augur, and Doc Q and help Luffy beat BB
Teach would've been killed so horribly in this scenario, not even funny.
 
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