Again, since you're referring to the two moments Garp blitzed Kuzan, what damage did Garp actually do and how close was he to winning the fight ?
Kuzan’s covered in blood lmao, what do mean “what damage did he do.”
Kuzan couldn‘t do shit to Garp without Shiryu’s intervention. Garp was clearly far closer to winning the fight than Kuzan. The fight goes
Garp blitzes
Shiryu stabs, equal punch
Garp blitzes
Garp beaten by the entire team off panel.
Oda doesn’t show Kuzan having an advantage once and yet your trying to tell me he’s actually showing Kuzan was on top?
Slamming someone once or twice doesn't mean anything when no damage is dealt so please stop making it seem like Garp did anything in those two exchanges.
When Garp tossed Kuzan down that pit was Kuzan putting on makeup to make it look like he was bleeding?
Show me an actual panel of Kuzan dealing damage to Garp then lol, cause apparently the punch between the two doesn’t count by your weird rules.
And Oda clearly separated Garp and Kuzan when Garp was fighting the other pirates. Not once was there a moment where Garp vs Kuzan looked like Jinbe vs Who's Who where the surrounding fighters are damaging Garp while he's fighting Kuzan. Even when Shiryu stabbed him Kuzan wasn't attempting to take advantage off of that moment.
Are you now actually trying to pretend the invisible man stabbing Garp when he’s facing off with Kuzan doesn’t have any effect on a potential one vs one between the two?
Again, two exchanges do not mean anything for an entire 1v1 battle. All those exchanges mean that Old Garp is faster than Kuzan which comes to no surprise to anyone here.
It should come as a surprise, considering Kuzan was fast enough to freeze the tsunami’s at Marineford. Kuzan is not slow, and an old man being faster not just once but twice was pretty surprising.
The exchanges mean a hell of a lot because they are literally all we get of the fight. There’s three exchanges, Garp wins two, the middle one is a draw and that only comes after Garp is weakened by Shiryu.
Stop making it seem like Garp was mopping the floor with Kuzan dealing a shit ton of damage to him while the other pirates had to step in to have Kuzan survive.
Garp was mopping the floor with him though. He was continually being blitzed and his freezing move failed. He wasn’t doing massive damage, but he also only used one named attack that wasn’t even a punch.
Not one bit of it is an excuse, you simply don't want to admit that an Admiral fought Garp while not having shown his entire arsenal.
I don't need to prove anything here when it's so obvious.
It’s a massive excuse because we’ve seen quite a bit from Kuzan and nothing else that he’s shown would significantly change anything. All you’re hitting me with is headcanons. I might as well say that Prime Garp would have a powerup mode that would let him one-shot Kuzan. Or Prime Garp’s Blue Hole would drop Kuzan so deep that he’d hit the sea floor and drown. Has as much going for it as your argument.
His best actual alternative is trying to stay back and use attacks like Ice Partizan, but Garp’s speed shows that wouldn’t be successful.
This is the effect the Aftermath of Kuzan’s abilities used on PH has on someone like Luffy or Zoro let alone the real thing.
Man, you are not seriously trying to argue that Kuzan’s secret weapon is to make it really cold, are you? In a series where Oden survived being boiled for an hour? You know how Luffy and Zoro resolved the above situation, right? They put on a warm coat.
What a deadly ability.
anyone that thinks Ice ball or Ice spear is the most useful ability Kuzan can use against a Top Tier is greatly delusional.
Kuzan suffered from the same restriction nearly all Admirals have suffered from fighting in their own turf. Kuzan would be killing the Blackbeard pirates and ruin an island that Teach loves.
Yeah, and Garp was restricted because he was fighting on the same island as Coby and co and they’d all die in the cross fire if he want all out, yadda yadda.
You think Garp showed his best attacks either? He used one named attack on Kuzan that wasn’t a punch, the man’s nickname is the Fist.
Have any of the attacks you mentioned caused the aftermath we've seen on Punk Hazard ?
They didn't and why is that?
Perhaps and maybe Perhaps Kuzan has used new powers related to his devil fruit that were stronger than the ones you mentioned ?
Anyways we know he did based on the aftermath. If he had only used the attacks you mentioned against Akainu the island plus climate wouldn't have changed at all.
How many times do I have to say it? I don’t care about Kuzan terraforming an island. It’s useless in a fight.
He fought for ten days. If, say, Garp and Kaido fought for ten days, none of the mountains would be left standing and Punk Hazard would be a level plain. Big whoop.
Kuzan entered the Navy called a monster. The difference between Garp and Kuzan is that brawling is simply another skill he has in his arsenal while it's everything that Garp has got.
The fact that Kuzan can even remotely keep up with Garp in his own fighting style should already tell you how close a fight Kuzan vs Prime Garp would be
What, when Kuzan fights Prime Garp is Shiryu still going to be there to land a convenient hit on him before lol?
From what we’ve seen, in Prime Garp vs Kuzan Kuzan can’t even land a hit. He was getting blitzed by an older weaker man, a guy in his prime will be faster and hit stronger.
Headcanon unless you can prove it with panels. I mean that's what you want me to do this entire time right ?
Yep, it’s all headcanon. We don’t know how Kuzan, Shiryu, Wolf, Pizarro, Shot and all the fodder actually beat Garp, because it wasn’t shown.
What was shown was Garp merrily beating the tar out of Kuzan who wasn’t doing much at all to combat it without Shiryu‘s intervention.
Even though I can prove what Kuzan going all out does to a climate and Island, you insist on claiming that Ice ball and Ice spear is everything Kuzan has got even though we know confirmed that every single attack Kuzan has used in this series doesn't cause such an effect leading to the obvious takeaway that he has used a set of new abilities we haven't seen before.
You’re really just going to continue to skip over the ten days long aspect of the fight. How many times- give any character of a certain strength ten days to fight on an island, they will destroy it.
Do you think every time Kuzan goes all out that’s it, island permanantly in winter? Is this going to be the hardcore cope for the rest of the series when neither Kuzan not Akainu ever do what they did to Punk Hazard again.
Feels like you're just playing dumb because it would make Garp look bad since he really went all out and everyone knows it lol.
Garp pulverises mountains for training.
By your logic, he didn’t go all out because the big skull mountain is still standing.
Does Ryokugyu fight by turning the environment into his element and use it in battle ?
?
Does Kizaru fight by by using sumo palm strikes to block and blitzing people with light speed?
Ryokugyu doesn’t fight anything like what Kuzan does. Kuzan has never shown the ability to manipulate ice the way Ryokugyu manipluates wood. Similarily, Ryokugyu hasn’t shown he can create constructs like Pheasent Peck and Ice Partizan, that Kuzan can.
I am not just going to grant Kuzan the ability to do what other completely different fighters can do.
One thing we will see is if Kizaru has a form similar to Enel’s big thunder man one and Ryokugyu’s broccoli one. If Kizaru shows that, then we’ve got three and it’s a fair assumption to make that all Logias can do it. That then could be the turning point for Kuzan against old Garp. Wouldn’t be enough for Prime Garp, but it could be some redemption.
Saul was stated to be covered in bandages from head to toe, he surely has some scars from Kuzan.
That no other crew member has any only means Kuzan didn't use the abilities he used against them to scar Akainu. Just thinking logically.
Saul also got hit by a full buster call incinerating an island.
Or again, simply the length of the fight. By the end the two of them must have been utterly exhausted. Can easily imagine them struggling to overcome attacks that they were able to shake off easily at the start of the fight.
No need to take them away. Everyone acts like Garp won anything after blitzing Kuzan twice, but when I ask for some damage dealt they usually deflect.
So Garp blitzed Kuzan all over the place. What now ?
Does Garp repeatedly slam Kuzan to the ground until the old man faints from exhaustion?
Not even a full power punch to the chin was able to keep Kuzan down lol.
No, I would imagine Garp would continually smash Kuzan around until Kuzan passes out from pain, bloodloss and exhaustion. That’s what tends to happen when fighting a brawler. Pretty much every Luffy fight in the series goes that way. He hits people until they get knocked out.
This is honestly a fucking dreadful argument. Hooray, Kuzan wasn’t beaten by two punches and a slam. Was the only punch that did anything to Kaido Bajrang Gun?
That full power punch to the chin wasn’t even a named attack and may not have used ACoC lol.
Anyways. Despite that I'm not delusional enough to say Garp wasn't weakened by Shiryu's stab. He was but not because Kuzan was too weak and Oda had to weaken Garp otherwise Kuzan would've lost. What’s clear is that Garp vs Kuzan would've taken some time and the fight needed to finish fast, simple as that.
Or it’s even more simple.
Garp was winning because he’s stronger so Oda had Kuzan and the Blackbeard’s team up to beat him.
The option of Kuzan winning outright was there to be taken. I don’t think anyone would have been shocked by younger man beating older man. It’s Oda who decided to go an entirely different, far more surprising route.
Slander the Admirals as much as you want. It's reality that an old healthy old legend is actually pretty close to his prime self. Garp is no WB. He wasn't sick at all. He just aged a bit, that's all.
It’s not really reality though, is it. Whitebeard, Garp and Ray all talk about how they aren’t what they used to be. It’s kind of a theme.
He wasn’t as nerfed as WB, I’ll definitely not argue there.
Iirc he said he's declining Lately Which means he only noticed a decline in strength 2-3 years ago. He never said he's 50% as strong as he was in his prime.
He doesn’t say anything about it being lately.
Just that he hates getting old and they don’t fly half as fast as they used to.
Which makes sense, because he was a 76 year old man who doesn’t seem to have done much since his great nemesis died twenty years earlier.
And yet none of these statements actually support how much you think Garp declined from his Prime strength. Actually they all seem to imply that Garp has gotten weak enough to notice the difference, that's all.
I think they paint a consistent picture of Oda telling us “this man is not as strong as he used to be.” Which is consistent with retired Ray and Whitebeard on life support. These guys are the old, fading generation. We don’t have or need percentages.
You tell me lmao
One of Kuzan’s low tier Ice abilities enough to put the legend down, quite sad actually.
And all those guys in the background, the Blackbeard Pirates, famed for their sense of fair play, they just didn’t get involved, eh? Waving those weapons around for ambience?
And “low tier?” Sorry, is this another fight you’ve read and no one else has? What attack beat Garp and how do you know it’s low tier?
At no point was Kuzan going all out vs Old Garp on Hachinosu, better accept it now my man.
You are basically turning into a Shanks fan ignoring why he and Mihawk would even fight if he wasn’t a swordsman.
Oda goes out of his way to show how Kuzan trained for decades punching battleship bags with Garp.
You- oh, that’s not actually how he fights when he goes all out, he has some hidden secret move that he just didn’t use for some reason despite Garp thrashing him.
Another Logia awakening denier lol. Every fruit class has another stage of abilities but no Logias apparently.
I think there’s a Logia Awakening.
No guarantees Kuzan has one though, and we don’t actually know what it does so I don’t care about it yet.
Very convenient but why couldn't Oda throw in a panel of Garp thinking "this is bad!" to show the reader that he's really in danger like he did with Kizaru?
What exactly do you think the purpose of these panels are?
He’s bleeding, he’s sweating, the veins are popping out of him everywhere, it’s the only time in the fight he doesn’t smile- he’s even smiling and laughing when he’s finally defeated- and people keep shouting he’s weakened.
He doesn’t need a panel of him thinking this is bad, it’s patently obvious from everything that’s being shown.
Also the Admirals looked better than ever since Wano ended with the exception of Kizaru being punched to the ground.
The Admirals have looked absolutely abysmal recently lol. They are desperately needing up to date feats.
So as it stands why would I doubt Garp’s words, do the fodder know better how Garp feels ?
They're irrelevant fodder. When they see someone get stabbed they think he's weakened.
Yeah, context is lost on you.
The one that's been running circles around the facts I've listed is you.
Below you listed just a bunch of nonsense slander takes that again aren't worth responding too.
Nah, it’s because they are facts that you don’t have any answer to.
Turns out his disciple almost became as good as he is in his own fighting style while resorting to low tier devil fruit attacks and worst of all take him out with one of those attacks.
Turns his disciple is a massive fucking disappointment who needs Shiryu to hold his dick for him lmao.
The Legendary Hero, right lmao. Makes sense now why Oda never gave him the title of Admiral, simply not strong enough.
Or, you know, cause he didn’t want to become the Celestial Dragons teaboy and lobster fetcher.
Absolute weirdest behaviour out there, when Admirals get so defensive over another Marine being stronger than them just because he never actually took the Admiral position that was offered to him?
We don't need them. His portrayal is more than enough to say that he's Garp’s exact equal whether in Prime or Old version.
Hot garbage lmao. It’s the classic “they stood side by side“ loads portrayal that leads to nonsense like Zoro = Sanji.
Garp’s the hero of the Marines, Garp’s the one who fought Roger, Garp’s the one who fought Rocks, Garp’s the main characters grandfather, Garp’s the one training the future of the Marines, Garp’s the one with the actual feats. What does Sengoku actually have that isn’t leeched from Garp? He’s strong, sure, but he is absolutely not Garp’s equal. No Marine is. That’s why Oda said this
Topic: Which characters would you like to go into detail about if you had enough time?
Well, there is a helpful means named "
cover story" in ONE PIECE for that purpose... Anyway, there remain some characters I want to go into detail
. It would be interesting if I focus on Marines. I can come up with a magnificent story about Garp. I'd like to draw some relationship and talks between him and Akainu, Aokiji, Smoker, Hina, Koby who joined Marines one after another, Cipher Pol and Roger.
It would also be interesting if I focus on Revolutionary Army, mainly Dragon. Why do they intend to make a revolution? With what belief? How did they meet? The story about Luffy's birth would be interesting. Many of those stories would be serious.
All of the stories about their lives lead to Luffy!! OK!! I'll draw Luffy!!
Garp is
the main Marine. He’s the strongest one, everyone should be able to recognise that without tearing their livers out with rage. We can only hope he starts to get the rest of them actually looking half decent again.
