Break Week One Piece - Chapter 970: Oden vs Kaido [BREAK WEEK]

[dirtyLarry]

Flashback Parallel to current storyline

Flashback

Oden and the Scabbards intended to head for Onigashima to take out Kaido and his forces while they were drunk and had no idea of them coming. This is essentially a raid.

Instead, they meet Kaido in Udon fully prepared with his army to battle Oden and the scabbards. Because of this preparedness Oden and the scabbards are put in a disadvantageous position and the enemy was even able to have the old hag be there prepared to provide support. This causes Oden and the scabbards to lose.

Current Storyline

Samurai-Pirate-Mink Alliance intends to head for Onigashima to take out Kaido and his forces while they are drunk and have no idea of them coming. Again, a raid.

Instead the scabbards arrive in Port Tokage, in Udon with everything they prepared for not in sight and it’s revealed to us that Orochi and his men thwarted the raid and was able to plan ahead. This puts the scabbards in a disadvantageous position and there’s a good chance they lose during the raid.

Take-away
This is the past repeating itself especially for the scabbards. The thing that connects these two failures is the identity of the traitor. The lesson here is the alliance needs to first figure out that they have a traitor and who exactly he/she is. Based on past events, even with a monster like Oden, they have no chance of claiming victory without this knowledge first.

Very good takeaway!
It's definitely the intention of Oda to stress the importance of the traitor.

 

[Boy_Sabaw]

Very good takeaway!
It's definitely the intention of Oda to stress the importance of the traitor.

Thanks. Meanwhile the folks at Reddit keep complaining why people keep talking about the traitor. Oda is obviously stressing the matter himself. We're reading an Arc with one of the major themes being a followers Faith, Loyatly to it's master, along with alliances between pirates... Of course we'll have a traitor.

 

[HA001]

Who the fucks the traitor.

As long as its not Kinemon im good.
Him and tsuru need their happy ever after

 

[dirtyLarry]

Thanks. Meanwhile the folks at Reddit keep complaining why people keep talking about the traitor. Oda is obviously stressing the matter himself. We're reading an Arc with one of the major themes being a followers Faith, Loyatly to it's master, along with alliances between pirates... Of course we'll have a traitor.

Well, the loudes voices on any forum are usually the guys who don't really understand the story.
Like you said, Oda has been building up the traitor storyline for half a decade and it's finally close to being revealed, who the traitor is. Of course it's of monumental importance. Way more important than their ridiculous power scaling debates.

Post automatically merged: Feb 12, 2020

Who the fucks the traitor.

As long as its not Kinemon im good.
Him and tsuru need their happy ever after

That's the million dollar question.

There are countless theories out there. Right now the one who makes the most sense is Kanjuro.

Here are some good threads to read btw:

Spoiler

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/d3fx6g https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/eyv9u4 https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/exq1y8

I wouldn't put it past Oda to surprise us with a major shocker, though.

 

[Boy_Sabaw]

Like you said, Oda has been building up the traitor storyline for half a decade and it's finally close to being revealed, who the traitor is. Of course it's from monumental importance. Way more important than their ridiculous power scaling debates.

I could not agree more.

Post automatically merged: Feb 12, 2020

I wouldn't put it past Oda to surprise us with a major shocker, though.

Agreed. Right now all roads point to Kanjuro but in the end we could be wrong. For me, I'm pretty convinced it's Kanjuro.

One thing we do need to keep in mind is whether you subscribe to the idea that he was a traitor from the start (Koruzumi Kanjuro theory) or he became a traitor due to resentment at Oden leaving Wano, this characters reasons and motivations are as important as his/her identity.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

It do make sense for Kaidou n Orochi to hold off Oden from one perspective, they intended to break the Samurai trust in Oden to reduce his numbers while building his own Army at the same time.
But shouldn't they also be really worried bout outside help coming in to help Oden? Afterall Oden was on good terms with both WB crew and Roger Pirates. If any of em had came to help Oden, the chances of Beast Pirates victory would have became void.

Was Oden too proud and stupid to not rely on his Nakamas and friends for help, when the future of his Country and Men were at stake?
There could be made a small case on how outside help could have been viewed as harmful by the Wano citizens and plan could have backfired.

But that still doesn't explain why Orochii n especially Kaidou shouldn't be worried bout that?
Considering Outside help factor, wouldn't it have been best to take on Oden before he contacted his former Nakamas for help?

 

[Draco]

The 5 years dance explanation is so retarded.

I seriously doubt luffy would do shit like dancing for 5 years instead of beating the shit out of the guy that is harming his crew mates, maybe if they have a knife on some of their neck or something like that but in the orochi case where none of his friends are hostages? No way in hell.


LUFFY: So... Oden did a dance for five years? Was it some secret training technique to make himself stronger?
starts dancing
INUARASHI: No! He did it to prevent El Kaido from slaughtering civilians!
LUFFY (stops dancing): Why didn't he just deck him in the face from the start then? A punch works a whole lot better than dancing like a fool for five years.

 

[Boy_Sabaw]

The 5 years dance explanation is so retarded.

I seriously doubt luffy would do shit like dancing for 5 years instead of beating the shit out of the guy that is harming his crew mates, maybe if they have a knife on some of their neck or something like that but in the orochi case where none of his friends are hostages? No way in hell.


LUFFY: So... Oden did a dance for five years? Was it some secret training technique to make himself stronger?
starts dancing
INUARASHI: No! He did it to prevent El Kaido from slaughtering civilians!
LUFFY (stops dancing): Why didn't he just deck him in the face from the start then? A punch works a whole lot better than dancing like a fool for five years.

Someone posted this on Reddit and I think this kind of answers your comment above

"Nekomamushi and Inuarashi sacrifice the entire ZOO village for one person Raizo. fans ohh such a badass
Bon clay sacrifice himself many times for luffy and the crew. fans ohh such badass
Zoro sacrifice himself to save the crew from kuma. fans ohh such badass
Whitebeard sacrifice his entire crew for one person Ace. fans ohh such a badass
Oden sarifice himselfe to save wano. fans ohh such an idiot
LOGIC"

I'm pretty sure that if Luffy is also presented a similar situation of self sacrifice he would sacrifice himself without question. These characters sacrifice themselves for other people because it's part of what separates them from other characters and especially the villains. All of them are willing to lose everything just for a small sliver of hope, and Oden is no different.

 

[Homelander]

A lot to say about this chapter. I think the whole flashback has been good so far.

I wasn't the first to point this out but Oden's main character flaw was that he so often rushes ahead without his subordinates. Completely ignoring them in the process. Yes, he is strong. But the story is emphasizing that no matter how strong you are you still need people to help you. Oden is so strong that he thinks he can do everything by himself and it just bites him in the ass everytime. He runs ahead without asking for help when he faces Orohci for the first time and fails. If he had brought his allies he would have had someone to deal with the bar bari no mi user and wouldn't have been caught. Now in this chapter he runs ahead against Kaidou and his subordinates can't even catch up. Leaving him surrounded by Kaidou's men and allowing them to trick him into dropping his guard and being defeated. This also causes the fall of his own subordinates as well. Very similar to how Whitebeard and his commanders were taken down at Marineford. Thats just two examples but you can see it as far back as the start of the flashback. He never fights as one with his comrades. He simply charges ahead. I'm willing to be this is why he also neglects to call for the aid of the Whitebeard or Roger Pirates. He keeps thinking he can do everything on his own.

Oden's entire story is a guide line. A blueprint of what NOT to do. It's to show us how & why Oden failed against Kaidou and what Luffy needs to do in order to overcome him. I believe the actual battle with Kaidou will mirror Oden's story as well by showing us how Luffy handles the same pitfalls that Oden fell into. To add to this, one of the themes in this arc is the faith & trust in one's leader and vice versa. While his subordinates had faith in Oden. Oden himself showed none of the same faith in them. And at one moment this faith is even put to the test by having Oden utterly humiliate himself in the eyes of absolutely everyone. As a result losing their faith. Yet despite all of that his subordinates still have unwavering faith in him and stand with him through the doubt, suffering and hardship. I bring this up because it lets us know that luffy will at some point experience the same. A moment of great defeat that will test everyone's faith in him to see whose truly loyal to him when he's at his lowest.

I also do think it might have been better if Oda went in-depth with certain things. I mean I certainly would've preferred it. So far he's just been running over the bullet points of Oden's story. Nothing wrong with that. It works. But it'd be far more impactful if we spent more time on everything. I understand that none of these moments are meant to be the high points of the arc though. Even though I expected more out of Oden's relationship with Toki, this is a shounen. Romantic relationships aren't explored since young boys aren't interested in that sort of thing. I still feel it would have helped the story more. Same with his relationship with the Scabbards. Though even as I say this, I know full well that people would have just complained anyway about the flashback "taking forever". Because if he explored each character more, we'd still be on Wano before Oden met Whitebeard.

It was good to see that new side to Kaidou's character. He wasn't always an all-powerful monster. He's still a Pirate and acts like one. He can be cunning when the situation calls for it. He's also perfectly capable of getting his ass kicked. Hopefully people will stop putting so much stock in that if "it's 1 on 1 bet on Kaidou" line. It's clearly just rumor. Something that that populace believes that isn't actually true.

Kaido lost 7 times so he was not invinsible. I think that "one on one " is like monologue in folktale to give that fear in pirates that none of them could challenge him . This can hold true since he never got a scar before.

I like kaido not going through rule book thats how he is. He said same thing to kidd and other this is not little pirate game. Kaido will go any route and destroy all rule book . The fight wont be fair.

Post automatically merged: Feb 13, 2020

Luffy doesn't need to learn anything. Episode 1 Luffy was already less naive than Oden.

This flashback is Oda's way of showing is showing the difference between Oden and Luffy, and why Luffy succeeds at being a good leader and Oden a bad one.

1)Oden made the same mistake as Vivi in Alabasta was making.
Luffy told Vivi that she was naive in thinking that she could fight a war without any bloodshed.

2). Luffy would have also accepted help if offered to him. Luffy even asked kid for help against Kaido.

3) When Oden dropped Toki and Momonsuke at Wano, he did nothing to save the country when he knew it was changing for the worse. Luffy would have stayed and taken care of Wano before going to Raftel. Proving once again how selfish Oden was.

This proves how sefless Luffy is and how Luffy was smarter than Oden.

However, Oden was also in a bad position as Kaido told Oden there was a traitor in his castle that was feeding Orochi information. The traitor is still active 20 years into the future. It is one of the Scabbards.
@Redx @playa4321

I think this was one mistake oden made. He should have taken roger pirates help to overthrow the orochis rule.

Roger would have defeated kaido. There was no king or Queen by that time .

Yep like i said the destiny was meant to happen. I get the feeling toki is setting things in motion because both roger or oden werent meant to kill or defeat kaido.

 

[Buusatan94]

The story could have changed radically if Oden had realized that Orochi and Kaido wouldn't keep their promise earlier and if he had made an alliance even if uneasy with Moria when he came to Wano with his crew or if he had sent Inuarashi or Nekomashi to seek help from Whitebeard.