Controversial Powerscalers don't understand One Piece

Do you agree with my position ?


  • Total voters
    35
#82
Edit : Because some people don't seem to differenciate narrative talk and powerscalling :



Most powerscalers (no matter whom they consider their fave, but it's mostly prevalent among Zoro and Mihawk fans as far as I can tell) don't understand how Oda sees the power dynamics in the crew, not even AFTER he wrote a whole explanation for them back in Enies Lobby with the Doriki.

Lucci : 4 000
Kaku : 2 200
Jabura : 2 180

The other ones are irrelevant here. What's matter is the following facts : the Doriki are calculated in base human form, meaning that Jabura is slightly below Kaku and Lucci extremely ahead of both.

Another fact is that carnivorous Zoans are said to be better suited for battle. Wether or not you consider it a truth or more of rumor, it doesn't change the fact that gaining claws and fangs to fight make it easier to empower the fighting-style of a non-swordman. The gap between transformed Kaku and Jabura thus remains largely the same, both displaying abilities they couldn't or wouldn't use in base form.

Therefore, Enies Lobby was an attempt - which somehow failed because of his readership's lack of comprehension, clearly - by Oda to explains how the future arc's battle would be decided and what it meant for the power dynamic in the crew's top fighters. Luffy fight the strongest, Zoro the 2nd strongest (who is serious), Sanji the third strongest (who is more of a clown/funny character, at least design wise). It was something he had done in Alabasta, kind of muddled by playing with in Skypiea but then always followed in the arcs which have followed Enies Lobby.

It doesn't mean, however, that each arc is a carbon copy of the others but that Oda has a very simple formula he uses, which can be summed as such : Luffy >>> Zoro >= Sanji.

Other characters may be extremely close to them (such as Jinbe currently) but Oda's goal is to have Luffy fight the strongest member of the opposite crew, Zoro the second strongest and Sanji the third strongest. Hence why in Wano Law and Kidd fought with Big Mom, who was the strongest member of another crew, distinct from the Beast Pirates.

Even the fabled Rooftop Five had a clear difference between the captains, who were outclassed but largely able to held their own against two Emperors, and the two vice-captains who were wheezing and panting long before the others, because while they are extremely powerful themselves, they simply don't play in the same legue than Luffy, Kidd and Law.

You could argue that the New World arcs haven't been like that, and you would be both right and wrong. Right because, indeed, on several occasions, Sanji didn't fight the third strongest (Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, Whole Cake Island). However, you'd be wrong because out of those, Sanji fought the strongest one for a time on Punk Hazard (Vergo), with the results that we know - for fairness sake, I must say I'm pretty confident he wouldn't have had such a bad showing if his body hadn't been severely damaged before hand when Nami had it -, was absent from Dressrosa when the fight started and had to flee Totto Land with half the crew, meaning that since Fishman Island, Wano was the first arc with a full crew (Punk Hazard being a mini-arc where there simply wasn't enough opponents for the crew, I don't consider it a full arc, kind of like Zou but with battles, if you will).

And in Wano, again, the formula was respected : Luffy fought Kaido (who was far stronger than King and Queen), Zoro fought the serious one and Sanji the funny one.

Anyone willing to read One Piece without preconception will of course notice that it wasn't always the case. At first, Zoro was more clearly Luffy's equal (just look at Whiskey Peak, the whole fight with Mihawk being basically Zoro's Shanks, going as far as being depicted as a "friend" of Shanks, etc.). Early arcs even had some surprising twist and turns (Hacchi being probably weaker than Kuroobi - or at least far more funny than the latter, which in nowadays' arcs would make him an opponent for Sanji). However, by Little Garden, another arc largely designed to highlight this rivalry, was probably the moment Oda decided that Zoro and Sanji would be real rivals, just like Dorry and Broggy.

But what about the bounties ?

The truth of the matter is that it isn't the exact numbers on it which matters (otherwise Zoro would have been weaker than Robin from Alabasta to Enies Lobby, or than Sanji during Wano) but rather a matter of range. Is your bounty in the low decades ? You're super weak, except if you're a rookie starting in East Blue. It's in the high decades/reach a hundred or even several on Paradise ? You're somewhat strong for a pirate on the first part of Grand Line. If you're bounty is between 500 000 000 and 1 billion you are already a legendary pirate. Above, you're in a very select club of monsters who could pretend to someday become an Emperor.

Above 2 billion, you are an Emperor or at least on their level in term of fighting abilities (Buggy not being concerned by it, of course).

Does it mean that Oda is great or terrible because he clings to this formula and makes sure it remains true no matter what power-ups are needed by the characters for it to remain in place ? The answer depends on everyone's opinion about what the core of One Piece is. For me, it's not the combat so the crew's dynamics remaining largely the same is perfect for me. For someone who considers battles to be the main attraction of One Piece, of course the answer would be vastly different.

But it doesn't change the fact that most discussions about powerscalling or some theories (ZKK most notably but it isn't the only one) can be pretty firmly debunked when one consider One Piece through those very simple lenses : Luffy >>> Zoro >= Sanji.
If you think sanji is anything more than neg diff fight for Zoro you should read a different manga.
One piece is not for you
 
#83
That's what I was talking about LMAO.
Going to Deep at Power scaling without looking at narrative.

Kaido >>>> King > Queen.

Zoro Is more close to Sanji then to Luffy.
And Sanji has esoskeleton on top of his haki which Is not that bad as you want It to be.
Except zoro also has feats vs yonko to go alongside his yc1 win.

Zoro one shots sanji
Sanji can't block anything with his fodder haki.

zoro is one advanced haki behind luffy acoo

sanji is 3 advanced hakis behind luffy 2 behind zoro
 
#84
Except zoro also has feats vs yonko to go alongside his yc1 win.

Zoro one shots sanji
Sanji can't block anything with his fodder haki.

zoro is one advanced haki behind luffy acoo

sanji is 3 advanced hakis behind luffy 2 behind zoro
Sanji with his eskeleton could break Queen's sword a feat that even those with strong haki couldn't reply.

"Was It color of armament? Whatever, It was, it's impossible!"
 
#85
Sanji with his eskeleton could break Queen's sword a feat that even those with strong haki couldn't reply.

"Was It color of armament? Whatever, It was, it's impossible!"
Who gives a shit it's a random non ranked sword. Queen fucked him up by slamming into a wall

There is literally no argument to why sanji doesn't get one shot by a serious zoro attack.
 
#86
Who gives a shit it's a random non ranked sword. Queen fucked him up by slamming into a wall

There is literally no argument to why sanji doesn't get one shot by a serious zoro attack.
Random non ranked sword of King could Clash against Zoro.

And yes there's argument, like Sanji dealing with both King and Queen at same time BEFORE HIS POWER UP without taking any several injury.
 
#91
Random non ranked sword of King could Clash against Zoro.

And yes there's argument, like Sanji dealing with both King and Queen at same time BEFORE HIS POWER UP without taking any several injury.
Isn't King's sword confirmed to be a meitou. Iirc artur posted sword gallery or whatever.

Either way, big difference between a named/meitou katanal, specially with CoA, and some random sword.

Pre-skip Zoro was breaking latter.
 
#98
You need the manga to tell you that Giraffe is superior to a leopard & wolf?

Let's see up to 20ft animal which can go up to 4000 pounds vs little cat and dog which at max can go up to 190 or so pounds?

Are you serious dude?
Kaku was inexperienced with his devil fruit and kept making mistakes. Jabra had over a decade to master his fruit and enhance its strengths.

Are you serious dude?
 
No It isn't a meitou.
Guess it just looks special, then.

Either way, with it, King was able to clash with Zoro. That in itself is a huge feat considering Zoro broke regular katanas like paper pre-skip.

Queen's blade broke on Sanji without doing any damage whatsoever- same Sanji who took moderate damage from being flung into a wall by Queen.

Don't see any reason to equate Queen's blade to King's.
 
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