Powers & Abilities Pre-Wano Luffy CoA vs Zoro CoA

[Geo]

@Geo it's already proved by Hyo that KKG is raw strength based than Haki :

▪Hyo said u strained ( used too much effort ) too hard in other translation he uses too much raw strength .
▪let's see Zoro clash with Pica :
Haki related and Zoro the winner and no scratches on his sword .

▪Let's see Hody vs Luffy :
Luffy got his CoA broken by Hody bite .

▪PICA's CoA > Hody :
It can tank his golem cutting force as what he said:

In the end people will go with Luffy because it's Luffy and not because of some competent argument made in his favor.

When one's haki is being compared to Oden himself whiles the other is getting haki attacks no sold by Yamato and broken by Ulti....it seems pretty clear whose haki is superior.


An argument can even be made for Yamato having superior haki to Luffy's after how she easily blocked Luffy. What Luffy has over her is haki technique with regards to penetrating haki.

 

[M944]

No marine outside fuji is shown. End of.

Such a big denial

 

[Tripod]

Bellamy’s punch injures any high tier
Luffy allowing him to utilize his spring’s compression(Gear 4’s mechanic) to gain the maximum amount of momentum(Sanji’s raid suit’s boosters mechanic) before striking transferred enough force to make up for the difference in hardness

The amount of force behind your attack has always been capable of bypassing the hardness of one’s haki
If this wasn’t the case, Luffy wouldn’t be able to parry Katakuri, and there also wouldn’t have been times where Luffy won trades against Doflamingo(KG) as well and Doffy winning some too unless the difference maker is the potency of the attacks rather than their hardness

I’ll also add that opting to tank an attack rather than apply your own counter force results in you absorbing all of that kinetic energy rather than meeting it with superior or equal force
If the energy you absorb is great enough; than the hardness of the exterior can only do so much

If we look at Luffy’s head on clashes, his haki was obviously inferior to Katakuri’s, but against Cracker, he could not apply enough force outside of the small difference in their haki to break biscuits until he used gear 4’s elasticity. And even still, his legendary sword was much harder than a regular sword to begin with, coupled with Luffy’s inability to utilize his elasticity with an outstretched arm, resulting in Cracker’s striking strength being capable of chopping into him
Zoro also has very high grade swords, as well as very good haki, BUT, his striking strength is also very strong so don’t misinterpret the level of his DC attributing it solely to his haki... it’s hard to gauge the difference between his and Luffy’s haki because they also utilize different levels more often than not pre Wano

 

[HA001]

Bellamy’s punch injures any high tier
Luffy allowing him to utilize his spring’s compression(Gear 4’s mechanic) to gain the maximum amount of momentum(Sanji’s raid suit’s boosters mechanic) before striking transferred enough force to make up for the difference in hardness

The amount of force behind your attack has always been capable of bypassing the hardness of one’s haki
If this wasn’t the case, Luffy wouldn’t be able to parry Katakuri, and there also wouldn’t have been times where Luffy won trades against Doflamingo(KG) as well and Doffy winning some too unless the difference maker is the potency of the attacks rather than their hardness

I’ll also add that opting to rank an attack rather than apply your own counter force results in you absorbing all of that kinetic energy rather than meeting it with superior or greater force
If the energy you absorb is great enough; than the hardness of the exterior can only do so much

If we look at Luffy’s head on clashes, his haki was obviously inferior to Katakuri’s, but against Cracker, he could not apply enough force outside of the small difference in their haki to break biscuits until he used gear 4’s elasticity. And even still, his legendary sword was much harder than a regular sword to begin with, coupled with Luffy’s inability to utilize his elasticity with an outstretched arm, resulting in Cracker’s striking strength being capable of chopping into him
Zoro also has very high grade swords, as well as very good haki, BUT, his striking strength is also very strong so don’t misinterpret the level of his DC attributing it solely to his haki... it’s hard to gauge the difference between his and Luffy’s haki because they also utilize different levels more often than not pre Wano

Lets not act like luffy doesnt have g4 boosting the shit out of his output.

 

[Tripod]

Lets not act like luffy doesnt have g4 boosting the shit out of his output.

That’s the point of the post; striking strength and applied attack force skew our views on haki

 

[chacharealsmooth]

False

Post automatically merged: Nov 20, 2020

Even Wano Luffy with a direct haki clash with Ulti got his haki broken. Again his haki got broken by Ulti.
Then we have Yamato no selling an Elephant Gun with haki

Whiles Zoro is confirmed haki > Kinemon who cuts Kaido

How is the thing I told related to Luffy? I just said ISDS is not something Zoro can pull casually any time he wants lol

 

[Tripod]

I think if we look at Luffy’s response to Doflamingo’s athlete thread attack that Luffy essentially negated in Gear 4; we would look at 3 things:
-Luffy’s elasticity improving his base durability
-Luffy’s haki
-Luffy’s physical strength to hold his

Doffy’s utilized base striking strength, haki AS WELL as his cutting element added with his strings

I think a fair comparison would be if Zoro could no sell athletes thread with his haki, base blocking strength(as Luffy wasn’t pushed back at all) and the initial hardness of his katana
Only problem here is assuming you could control 2 variables, those being: Zoro’s strength equaling Luffy’s and Luffy’s gear 4 elasticity defense being equal to Zoro’s katana’s durability so that whatever the difference here is would be solely attributed to the difference in haki

I do think Zoro could no sell athletes thread I just don’t know how much more his physical strength and quality katana would compensate for a potential difference in hardness

All in all, they use haki for different things in different ways, until we get a direct comparison we can never be objective

 

[stairs-kun]

Luffy COA is trash.

Post automatically merged: Nov 21, 2020

Luffy wankers are a different breed. They reading a Manga that differs from One Piece.

 

[MD25]

Luffy's COA is massively stronger than Zorro's ( and among the strongest in the verse) who only had Ryou meaning better control of his Haki up to this point. Luffy beat 3 commanders, first one arguably has massively greater cutting power than Zorro, casually with almost nigh infinite spam of it and without even using Haki, those guys had advanced Haki ,and Luffy did it without advanced Haki. Let' stop this. That's ridiculous. With advanced Haki Oda is putting him/upscaling against Yonko straight up. Zorro with advanced Haki is upscaled at commader level maybe low 1st hand probably 2nd commander and will struggle to beat commanders. no.

now that doesn't mean Zorro couldn't have won against Luffy back then. Because of advanced COA he was a more all around better fighte and more versatile. His base is strong without even using much of his own power beause of advanced Haki. Zorro having better control of COA could have still made him be able to beat Luffy, for example through the mecanism of Ryou vs body Haki for example ( does projecting it give an advantage over body Haki) , surprise shots, lethality,also versatility and skill superiority of advanced Haki, simply greater casual attack power which could easily trouble base Luffy without Zorro having to put too much of his own power ( physical strenght, gorilla mode, possible demon form) , and longevity in fights ( not running out of haki kind of form) , coupled with his crazy endurance and durability and as long as Luffy didn't use KKG or Snakeman that's the best wank I can do for Zorro vs pre Wano Luffy. But Luffy's wank is even greater keep that in mind. One could argue Zorro would barely be able to beat base Luffy and Boundman should anihilate him let alone Snakeman. Or worst, that Zorro wouldn't be able to cut him no matter what he does in any of Luffy's form. Let's stop this.

It really is about what point you want to argue but most likely than not if we go by facts Luffy's COA is obviously many times stronger, that debate has been sealde by Wano, this topic is actually redundant and the develoments that have happened, but Zorro had better control, and right now with Enma he would catch up eventually.

 

[rerere]

Luffy COA is trash.

Post automatically merged: Nov 21, 2020

Luffy wankers are a different breed. They reading a Manga that differs from One Piece.

Seems like you are the one who's reading a different Manga

 

[Finalbeta]

Seems like you are the one who's reading a different Manga

I'm a huge Zoro supporter but I think showing unfair Luffy downplay is only detrimental to Zoro since the two have always been portrayed as equals. Claiming that Zoro is much stronger than Luffy is some fanboyism serious Zoro fans can likely be deprived of without losing anything if not gaining further credibility, so I have fundamentally to concur with you here hence take my distances.

 

[Zara]

Zoro has better CoA. Luffy has better CoC and CoC.

 

[Cyrus the Cactus]

Didn’t you know that Luffy is also more lethal than Zoro? EVERY STAT LUFFY HAS IS STRONGER THAN HIS CREWMATES (WHICH HE CAN LOW DIFF WHILE IN SEASTONE SHACKLES BTW) :laughmoji:

 

[nik87]

Why is this even a discussion?

The whole penetration technique is an excuse for those who cant deal with a hard exterior.

 

[Albino 👑]

Luffy's armament vs armament feats (excluding g4)

1. Easily able to overpower chinjao's
2. Bellamy could break through it with his attack power tbh his haki is obviously weaker
3. Could break through doffys in close combat and defend himself from awakening for a while before his haki fully restored
   • Tho doffy could also break through his at times
4. Able to defend against crackers attack while he was in the armor but cracker was able to cut him with his real sword
5. Katakuri easily overpowered luffys armament with block mochi but before thar neither of their haki were shown able to break through the others

Zoros armament vs armament feats

1. Had stronger haki than pica
2. Apoo was able to block his attack

 

[Tripod]

Luffy's armament vs armament feats (excluding g4)

1. Easily able to overpower chinjao's
2. Bellamy could break through it with his attack power tbh his haki is obviously weaker
3. Could break through doffys in close combat and defend himself from awakening for a while before his haki fully restored
   • Tho doffy could also break through his at times
4. Able to defend against crackers attack while he was in the armor but cracker was able to cut him with his real sword
5. Katakuri easily overpowered luffys armament with block mochi but before thar neither of their haki were shown able to break through the others

Zoros armament vs armament feats

1. Had stronger haki than pica
2. Apoo was able to block his attack

I think the closest we get to comparing the 2 here is Zoro dwarfing Pica’s haki leaving him somewhere above good veteran level haki~~average commander level haki which Luffy can defend against in some cases

Obviously Zoro could cut Luffy with high end attacks but some instances could end up like Apoo stopping Zoro from making his intended cut, which wasn’t Apoo’s tonfa
We Don’t really know what it would take to pierce Tankman tho

 

[Kucing Pencuri]

@Geo it's already proved by Hyo that KKG is raw strength based than Haki :

▪Hyo said u strained ( used too much effort ) too hard in other translation he uses too much raw strength .
▪let's see Zoro clash with Pica :
Haki related and Zoro the winner and no scratches on his sword .

▪Let's see Hody vs Luffy :
Luffy got his CoA broken by Hody bite .

▪PICA's CoA > Hody :
It can tank his golem cutting force as what he said:

What even scratches on his sword? Zoro has 3 grade swords which is already hard by default. So i dont understand with scratches on sword

 

[Albino 👑]

I think the closest we get to comparing the 2 here is Zoro dwarfing Pica’s haki leaving him somewhere above good veteran level haki~~average commander level haki which Luffy can defend against in some cases

Obviously Zoro could cut Luffy with high end attacks but some instances could end up like Apoo stopping Zoro from making his intended cut, which wasn’t Apoo’s tonfa
We Don’t really know what it would take to pierce Tankman tho

Yeah with higher end attacks he can definitely bypass his haki but when it comes to which of the two have stronger armament ima go with luffy

Like even tho sanji specializes in coo i wouldn't say its better than luffy's

 

[Fleet Leader Fenaker]

What even scratches on his sword? Zoro has 3 grade swords which is already hard by default

And ? Mihawk said that even if it is a graded weapon it can get scratched against a great force especially with CoA even Zoro verified his blades after cutting golem and defeating Pica why did he do that ? He knew better than me and u because in that case a blade can get scratched

 

[Albino 👑]

Dressrosa:
Luffy vs chinjao

http://imgur.com/a/d2qLcPD

Luffy vs Bellamy

http://imgur.com/a/seVKH4D

Luffy vs doflamingo

http://imgur.com/a/Y5g4nLJ

Zoro vs pica

http://imgur.com/a/rYvxiZt

Wci:
Luffy vs cracker

http://imgur.com/a/AZMqkHt

Luffy vs katakuri
https://imgur.com/a/XEmHT0y

Onigashima:
Luffy vs ulti
https://imgur.com/a/3YBpJ9y

Zoro vs apoo
https://imgur.com/a/o13nUku