I'm against this fake Shiryu hype since ID/MF arc.
There were lot of people, many Zoro fans aswell, who thought that just because BB is the final villain the Janitor is supposed to be so strong that he can take out Mihawk.
14y later and this Shiryu kills Mihawk madness is finally over (thanks to Mihawk's bounty reveal establishing him as a one man army)
and dude's portrayal isnt even close to Zoro but even now i see many Zoro fans pushing him as top tier, only because he's supposed to be Zoro's fight.
I never wanked King because he was Zoro opponent, i genuinely liked him. I will never wank Shiryu because he is supposed to be Zoro's opponent.
Oda let him damage one of his beloved old legends but nothing more than that. If he was a special case he would portrayed him different.
There is always the possibilty that things could change in the future but i prefer to wait before jumping into Shiryu's top tier hypetrain.
It is very naive to underestimate Shiryu and rate him anywhere other than in the top tier.
King made High tiers look like toddlers and even competes with Kaido in stats and beats him in several.
I dont know how people can expect Zoro's future opponents to be anything less than a top tier when King raised the bar extremely high...
It is very naive to underestimate Shiryu and rate him anywhere other than in the top tier.
King made High tiers look like toddlers and even competes with Kaido in stats and beats him several.
I dont know how people can expect Zoro's future opponents to be anything less than a top tier when King raised the bar extremely high...
Atm i rate him as a low top tier and i'm generous enough if i have to be honest.
Anything beyond that is cap and pure speculation.
Indeed King made Kata & Marco look less impressive compared to him but its not that there is a huge gap between them lets be honest here.
So far the portrayal of the real top tier opponents is quite clear to anyone who dont blindy follows an agenda.
Admirals/Yonko/Mihawk/Dragon are the strongest in the verse followed by the old guys.
Everybody else is below them.
Gorosei/Imu could be also an exception. We'll get our answer soon enough.
In my book, Kaido aside, the 5 guys that were introduced pre ts (Mihawk,Shanks,Dragon,BB,Akainu) are the strongest.
I think there would be a battle royal at some point during Raftel and Shiryu vs Zoro wont be a classic 1on1 as many people think. This or Zoro could be injured from some previous fight or winning easily against him before moving to another opponent.
Shiryu has nothing over Zoro bar maybe lethality (thats a big if) and the only argument right now is "but he's a BBP".
It depends of how bbp fights will go or who is mugis next opponents kurohige case is pretty weird because I see him as next opponent because at the end they are YC and zoro as still yet to fight an admiral(i don't think he will fight this nasujuro guy let alone the garling swordsmam)but like imu kurohige is also luffy's counterpart and knowing loda he could do that the 4 current yonkos reach laughtale if that the case then this like skypia where zoro defeated that gunslinger very easy and later he fought ohm and Enel
Funny there's a Youtuber that I used to watch that in 2023 still thinks that Shiryu is going to kill mihawk he thinks that if BBP reach LT seen Shiryu ability and what he did to garp he says is going to be the same with zoro and mihawk and according to him is going to be a 3 match and Shiryu raiu could ending been better than mihawk yoru so stupid
Atm i rate him as a low top tier and i'm generous enough if i have to be honest.
Anything beyond that is cap and pure speculation.
Indeed King made Kata & Marco look less impressive compared to him but its not that there is a huge gap between them lets be honest here.
So far the portrayal of the real top tier opponents is quite clear to anyone who dont blindy follows an agenda.
Admirals/Yonko/Mihawk/Dragon are the strongest in the verse followed by the old guys.
Everybody else is below them.
Gorosei/Imu could be also an exception. We'll get our answer soon enough.
In my book, Kaido aside, the 5 guys that were introduced pre ts (Mihawk,Shanks,Dragon,BB,Akainu) are the strongest.
The difference between my power scaling and others is that I am guessing how strong a character will be once he fully shows off while most others rank the characters based on what they have seen so far and that's why everyone was wrong about Zoro's power level before rooftop.
If Kaido ranks Oden on the same pedestal as the other 4 among his top 5 and Shiryu parallels Oden due to being 2nd commander, he will be on the same pedestal as those people you mentioned as strongest. If Pica and King had an invincibility state, all future Zoro opponents will have it too and Shiryu's will most likely be the most broken of them all.
I dont know what you mean that there is no huge gap between Marco and King when Marco was beaten without King breaking a sweat...
Just because he can keep up and even have an upper hand against King, who isnt trying, doesnt mean he in close to him.
Just like it doesnt mean that Luffy is close to Kaido just because he can fight on equal ground for 20 mins. Or Yamato...
The gap is huge, it is just not that obvious.
@gz89@nik87
I think it's not yet time to analyze Shiryu's level.
In Hashinosu, we saw him surpass Garp's Haki which in itself is quite an achievement, plus Zoro's later opponents tend to be stronger than his earlier ones, so I wouldn't be surprised if Shiryu is stronger than King(which is to be expected).
BUT, we also know that Zoro's opponents only have their power developed when they are fighting Zoro.
For me Shiryu is Low Top Tier but has the potential to be Mid Top Tier.
To be honest before Wano arc I was sure Zoro is not that far from captain as another analogues from Yonko's teams. His difference with Luffy is still less than others. But Wano showed that Luffy is far above Zoro. Maybe it is one of the reasons Zoro fans are not that confident anymore.
How?
Do you know that luffy is weak to cuts even with his g5
Do you know that zoro saved his ass during rooftop
Do you know that he died 5 times against kaido while zoro was dealing easy with him
Do you know that zoro can take his place whenever he want like he said in fishmen island
I think someone here needs to go to the haki training field @nik87
MF Marco was strong enough to clash with Admirals.
Wano "injured" King was handled easily by Aramaki.
Morley & Karasu left MJ w/o a single scratch. Nerfed Admirals was just Oda telling us to shut our brain and accept it because reasons.
Egghead Luffy/Zoro had "trouble" against Serakids
Act 2 Luffy had "trouble" with Ulti
Vergo/Doffy negged Sanji but one PU was enough to beat a YC2
etc etc
I agree that King is above Marco but its not as huge as you make it sound. It was circumstancial.
Didnt rooftop show that Zoro is far above Luffy?
And then Zoro proceeded to get a better power-up than Luffy...
I find it quite interesting how Oda manages to paint a wrong picture with a big punch...
He did it Enies Lobby, in Dressrosa and in Wano. After each of the 3, people thought Zoro is far below Luffy.
While the reality is the complete opposite, just like the rooftop has shown.
MF Marco was strong enough to clash with Admirals.
Wano "injured" King was handled easily by Aramaki.
Morley & Karasu left MJ w/o a single scratch. Nerfed Admirals was just Oda telling us to shut our brain and accept it because reasons.
Egghead Luffy/Zoro had "trouble" against Serakids
Act 2 Luffy had "trouble" with Ulti
Vergo/Doffy negged Sanji but one PU was enough to beat a YC2
etc etc
I agree that King is above Marco but its not as huge as you make it sound. It was circumstancial.
There is no power creep. Every top commander is capable of keeping an Admiral in check.
Marco is capable of it and will handle them until his regen works. As long as it is on, Admirals cant beat him.
Jozu was capable of it and as long as he was in diamond form and focused, Admiral couldnt beat him.
Aramaki and King scene isnt worth mentioning because even Mr3 is capable of Aramaki's feat against the beaten King.
Revolutionary commanders like Sabo and Karasu are definitely looking like people capable of handling Admirals.
Seraphims have invincibility, there is nothing Luffy and Zoro can do about it.
Act 2 base/g2 Luffy's physical strength simply aint great enough to overpower an Ancient Dino out of its grip.
That YC2 is a scientist who stuffed himself with abilities. Sanji should try fighting Vergo or Doffy if he wants a stronger challenge.
Marco can keep up with King just like pre-G5 Luffy can keep up with Kaido, he looks comparable while it lasts.
After 20 minutes Luffy and Marco are dead while King and Kaido didnt even get warm. The gap is huge after all...
If they want to look comparable, King and Kaido should be on the ground incapable of continuing as well.
Luffy and Zoro are still on the same level its just that luffy will always figh stronger opponent allowing him to go all out and also is the MC . Before awakening luffy's ability tto change the shape of his rubber was limited both in size and form but Gear 5 take away that limit. As seen with lucci the zoan property of the Nika fruit arent anything special compared to the other mythical zoan, he can still be damaged by slash like any normal rubber its the limitless shape shifting ability that is the real reason the form is dangerous and luffy still need haki otherwise the strenght from his fruit can be nulified and kaidos blazing bagua would have kill him. For Zoro KOH did the exact same things as gear 5 for luffy but instead of maximizing his strenght only it also give Zoro peak AP and likely the AoE of his slash are limitless now. The only difference is that GEAR 5 was a power up while KOH is a swordstyle Zoro created in his task to master Enma using his conqueror haki and ad coa..
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