Controversial The GOAT of Kingdom

#21
For manga, the only GOAT is Ousen. For defeating Riboku at Shukai plain, securing Kankoku pass, defeating Ordo's army in most comical and brutal way, ofcourse for stalling KyouEn and disrupting Renpa’s strategy. Many more incoming in the future chapters.
I dont see whats so great about Ousen to be considered as the "only GOAT". He admitted he beat Riboku at Shukai plain only because of superior "pawns". In fact, he admitted Riboku was superior =>

Heck, Riboku thinks Kanki is better than Ousen.

Things will change in the future and Ousen will shine against Chu. But he isn't there yet.
 
#23
Probably Kou En. Even though he hasn’t made an appearance yet, the hype he has gotten is building him up to be the biggest threat to appear yet even more than Riboku. And Chu is considered a “super state” it is only fitting their number 1 general is number 1 in all of Kingdom. Riboku can’t be the GOAT if Kou En is half the tactician he is while being a beast in combat and in all other aspects that make a general powerful.

Renpa was hyped a lot, but I honestly forgot most of the details regarding him, all I remember was that he was the equivalent of Ouki in Zhao, he for sure outranks Riboku on an all time list.
 
#24
Probably Kou En. Even though he hasn’t made an appearance yet, the hype he has gotten is building him up to be the biggest threat to appear yet even more than Riboku. And Chu is considered a “super state” it is only fitting their number 1 general is number 1 in all of Kingdom.
To me, Kouen is the only guy who might have a shot at being stronger than Riboku. But the thing is, with all the portrayal Riboku has received in the story (called "an enemy of an unprecedented lv" and "the battles of China now revolving around him" by Ouki, "most dangerous man in China" by Renpa, "greatest threat to Qin unification plan" by Saitaku, Sei and Ouken etc.), the sheer amount terrific feats he has and everything else...calling Riboku the GOAT is really easy.

Maybe Kouen really is that guy and Hara intends to have him stronger than Riboku. It's possible. I'm hyped as shit for the guy and I've also read some historical stuff on him.
 
#25
Probably Kou En. Even though he hasn’t made an appearance yet, the hype he has gotten is building him up to be the biggest threat to appear yet even more than Riboku. And Chu is considered a “super state” it is only fitting their number 1 general is number 1 in all of Kingdom. Riboku can’t be the GOAT if Kou En is half the tactician he is while being a beast in combat and in all other aspects that make a general powerful.

Renpa was hyped a lot, but I honestly forgot most of the details regarding him, all I remember was that he was the equivalent of Ouki in Zhao, he for sure outranks Riboku on an all time list.
Its hard to imagine him surpassing the historically four goated generals of the warring states (Hakuki, Renpa, Riboku, Ousen), the best he can do is be on their level
 
#26
Even though he hasn’t made an appearance yet, the hype he has gotten is building him up to be the biggest threat to appear yet even more than Riboku.
Sei disagrees =>


I agree that Kouen will have his shot for the GOAT, but right now he doesnt have Riboku's hype
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all I remember was that he was the equivalent of Ouki in Zhao, he for sure outranks Riboku on an all time list
What makes you think Renpa "for sure" outranks Riboku in an all time list?
 
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#27
Probably Kou En. Even though he hasn’t made an appearance yet, the hype he has gotten is building him up to be the biggest threat to appear yet even more than Riboku.
Not really
Maybe he will be but how many times has Riboku been called the most dangerous man in china and biggest obstacle to unification
Also Kou En has 3 to 4 times the resources of Riboku with no problem coming from the king and court so he could be a lot more difficult even being below Riboku
 
#28
That’s a lot of replies :gotres:. Lot of Riboku fans out here.

Bottom line is that KouEn is already expected to be a beast of a fighter, if he’s a great tactician as well then it’s night night for Riboku. The number one general of the biggest state isn’t going to be below Riboku he’s either gonna be right there on his level or flat out better. Considering a tactical general of Ousen’s level and a fighter as strong as Moubu will be involved, it really looks like Hara is setting up the biggest threat for a dude that was called “the Conqueror of the East”. Either that, or he’s an instinctual type that is very unpredictable.

What makes you think Renpa "for sure" outranks Riboku in an all time list?
I don’t remember much except that Renpa was like the Whitebeard to Roger’s Ouki and considering Riboku isn’t the melee fighter that Renpa is, I would say that is enough for Prime Renpa to outrank him.

Riboku agrees btw:
 
#31
I don’t remember much except that Renpa was like the Whitebeard to Roger’s Ouki and considering Riboku isn’t the melee fighter that Renpa is, I would say that is enough for Prime Renpa to outrank him.
Yeah, that one panel shows Riboku cant beat him. But there are multiple panels that shows Riboku's superiority throughout the manga.

Firstly, there are multiple statements saying Riboku surpassed Ouki =>


Secondly, he was called the strongest member of the Three great heavens in all history by the deputy of a former great heavens:

Thirdly, Ouki and Renpa themselves rate Riboku very highly. Ouki called him a general of unprecedented level. Renpa called him the most dangerous man in all of China =>


As I said in my first post, you can make a case for Renpa or Ouki. But to say Renpa "for sure" outranks Riboku is blasphemy. I agree that Ouki/Renpa are like Roger/Whitebeard of Kingdom, but Riboku is the Blackbeard, who surpassed the old gen GOATs.
 
#34
A widely discussed topic, who is the goat of Kingdom
Kanki?
Ousen?
Moubu?
Rinshoujou?
Riboku?
Ouki?
Gakuki?
Hakuki?
Duke?
Tou?
Kanmei?
Kyouen?


This is what peak performance looks like

But really, there's one who decisively stands above all

Renpa's legend is something we cannot even begin to measure. Even when pit against the mightiest of the great generals, more times than not he has you beat most areas of expertise, the level at which Renpa operates in his warfare is on an entirely different league to any previous or current general we've seen.

To understand Renpa's character, there's a famous story that happened between him and Rinshoujou. Hara didn't mention it in Shukai so you might as well read it here
King Sho was going to bait Zhao's king into agreeing to send out armies to support Qin, but RSJ was able to turn down his offer with tactful speech. Upon return, Zhao king believed that the day goes to RSJ, but Renpa felt it unfair as he should be credited too for acting as the bodyguard. For a while RSJ would avoid Renpa on sight, but eventually he confessed to others that he would never do anything to endanger Renpa's loyalty to the state since he's the only Zhao general capable of taking Qin head on. Once Renpa learnt this, he visited RSJ's dwellings with huge stretches of thorns on his back to seek RSJ's forgiveness, after which they became close buds.

Renpa is just straight up a giga chad, his simple attitude is what allows him to exude this infinite amount of testosterone
I can only think of Duke Hyou, but there is no one in touch with warfare as Renpa. He doesn't care about which state uses him to unleash his power, that is irrelevant. If Zhao has mediocre kings then fuck it, I go to a different state to wage war.

His endless vitality also stems from the same source, even Ouki admits defeat in that category. Renpa was born to wage war plain and simple

And only death can separate him from the battlefield

We've seen generals exuding their aura to raise morale among their ranks, but no one even comes close to Renpa.
This is what the Renpa effect does to an actual general of a foreign state commanding an army of over 150k

And dealing with foreign Wei soldiers who are known for their serious demeanor, all Renpa had to do was raise his fist to split the heavens

It is literally impossible to surpass this level of testosterone, there is one who holds this level of weight on the battlefield
You can find a couple generals who might compete with Renpa commanding foreign soldiers, but just imagine how Zhao dogs would react to Renpa..

Despite his legendary martial prowess and talent in warfare, and more so because he possessed these qualities, Renpa can sit down with his most mortal enemy and exchange words over a couple drinks, even share personal matters you would normally hide from your most trusted vassals

This is what it means to be a great general of the heavens, being honest to a fault

Not enough generals have a heart to do what Renpa did here, even after he went bonkers for losing Rinko, Renpa could still hold his emotions for the boy Ouki passed his glaive to, and then even further motivates this kid by handing him RInko's sword. Talk about the level of respect for both his opponents and himself


Here are some extraordinary feats and portrayal:
-Even at old age, Riboku thinks no one in China stands a chance against Renpa in a head on clash

-Even after beating Riboku and conquering Gyou old man Renpa thinks nothing of the Qin greenhorns and is ready to place their heads on a spike

-Stands at the top of the food chain alongside Ouki when it comes to martial prowess, to the point where the legendary Gaimou tries to hype himself up using Renpa

-Arguably his greatest feat and one of the best in the manga, Gakujou, someone considered the second in Zhao above the likes of Kouchou, and a general who knows the bread and butter of Renpa's warfare after fighting alongside him for decades, was helpless against Renpa even with an astronomical numerical advantage (50k vs 8k)


-Mougou's fortress which he planned for 40 whole years to beat Renpa, even after paying huge sums of money to accumulate info on Renpa (the man literally slept in barns for years to manage this) was easily conquered by Renpa, and it wasn't even enough to get his blood going
Not to mention his unique photographic memory

-And lastly what makes Renpa so legendary is his mastery of all aspects of warfare, he is beyond doubt the most complete general and the one with the highest chances of victory when confronted with any randomly generated battle scenario

Only Renpa can duel Ouki to a standstill, charge fiercely into battle like Moubu, crack formations and fortress with sheer instincts like the Duke, outmaneuver a strategist of Ousen's caliber and erect an iron defense that withstands the Qin6 assault for 2 years, and to think that he can switch between these forms at will

Disclaimer
This doesn't actually mean Renpa beats everyone in 1v1, personally I think Hakuki and Gakuki potentially whoop his ass after a hard fought battle, but Renpa is still the most complete general with the highest chance of victory at any given scenario.

The heavens will never bear a more goated general

@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @Shanks @God Buggy @Elder Lee Hung @Dark Admiral @Monet @Yo Tan Wa @MarineHQ @TheKnightOfTheSea @RayanOO @Xione @Bullet@NikaInParis @FutureWarrior123 @Great General Kanki
it's funny that kingdom has full package of goat characters , while some works strive to have one
:milaugh:
 
#35
Based on what I've read, I would rank them in this order:
  1. Ri Boku
  2. Ren Pa
  3. Haku Ki
  4. Ou Sen
And that's just based on accomplishments.

Ren Pa could arguably be #1 as well, but I give Ri Boku the edge for what he pulled off despite having so little to work with.

As for the manga - there is no clear GOAT either. There's simply a level of excellence that few attain at which point it becomes a matter of style and circumstances.
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Bottom line is that KouEn is already expected to be a beast of a fighter, if he’s a great tactician as well then it’s night night for Riboku.
I don't know why people think Kou En will be some martial monster when he has the longest service record in Chu history and likely won't make his debut for a long time.

The Tiger of Chu is also known as the Conqueror of the East - likely because he spearheaded the Chu expansion in the fall of the Qi superstate nearly 60 years ago.

Kou En is likely already an old ass man. He'll be closer to 90 than 70 by the time he does anything on the battlefield.

The number one general of the biggest state isn’t going to be below Riboku he’s either gonna be right there on his level or flat out better. Considering a tactical general of Ousen’s level and a fighter as strong as Moubu will be involved, it really looks like Hara is setting up the biggest threat for a dude that was called “the Conqueror of the East”. Either that, or he’s an instinctual type that is very unpredictable.
lol, I can see your logic, but it's misguided. This is shounen logic of "whoever is introduced later in the story is going to be stronger than those who proceeded them" - that's just not how it works in Kingdom. Even if it wasn't a seinen, Hara showed us the highest level of warfare pretty early. We got introduced to Ou Ki, Ri Boku and Ren Pa early in the story and none aside from Ou Sen have been on their level since introduction.
 
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#36
Yeah, that one panel shows Riboku cant beat him. But there are multiple panels that shows Riboku's superiority throughout the manga.

Firstly, there are multiple statements saying Riboku surpassed Ouki =>


Secondly, he was called the strongest member of the Three great heavens in all history by the deputy of a former great heavens:

Thirdly, Ouki and Renpa themselves rate Riboku very highly. Ouki called him a general of unprecedented level. Renpa called him the most dangerous man in all of China =>


As I said in my first post, you can make a case for Renpa or Ouki. But to say Renpa "for sure" outranks Riboku is blasphemy. I agree that Ouki/Renpa are like Roger/Whitebeard of Kingdom, but Riboku is the Blackbeard, who surpassed the old gen GOATs.
Ok that’s fair enough, I concede. Not a big fan of Riboku but I wanted to throw another name out there.
Based on what I've read, I would rank them in this order:
  1. Ri Boku
  2. Ren Pa
  3. Haku Ki
  4. Ou Sen
And that's just based on accomplishments.

Ren Pa could arguably be #1 as well, but I give Ri Boku the edge for what he pulled off despite having so little to work with.

As for the manga - there is no clear GOAT either. There's simply a level of excellence that few attain at which point it becomes a matter of style and circumstances.
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I don't know why people think Kou En will be some martial monster when he has the longest service record in Chu history and likely won't make his debut for a long time.

The Tiger of Chu is also known as the Conqueror of the East - likely because he spearheaded the Chu expansion in the fall of the Qi superstate nearly 60 years ago.

Kou En is likely already an old ass man. He'll be closer to 90 than 70 by the time he does anything on the battlefield.



lol, I can see your logic, but it's misguided. This is shounen logic of "whoever is introduced later in the story is going to be stronger than those who proceeded them" - that's just not how it works in Kingdom. Even if it wasn't a seinen, Hara showed us the highest level of warfare pretty early. We got introduced to Ou Ki, Ri Boku and Ren Pa early in the story and none aside from Ou Sen have been on their level since introduction.
Sure, my knowledge of Kingdom is very little as I just caught up not too long ago. So he has the longest service record in Chu? If Kou En is already an old man then I guess he’s gonna be exuding experience far more than flexing in 1v1 combat, Imma have to take back what I said then :catsweat:
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#37
That’s a lot of replies :gotres:. Lot of Riboku fans out here.

Bottom line is that KouEn is already expected to be a beast of a fighter, if he’s a great tactician as well then it’s night night for Riboku. The number one general of the biggest state isn’t going to be below Riboku he’s either gonna be right there on his level or flat out better. Considering a tactical general of Ousen’s level and a fighter as strong as Moubu will be involved, it really looks like Hara is setting up the biggest threat for a dude that was called “the Conqueror of the East”. Either that, or he’s an instinctual type that is very unpredictable.


I don’t remember much except that Renpa was like the Whitebeard to Roger’s Ouki and considering Riboku isn’t the melee fighter that Renpa is, I would say that is enough for Prime Renpa to outrank him.

Riboku agrees btw:
For me it’s not impossible for Riboku to stay forever the greatest antagonist in Kingdom.

We are at chapter 762 and Riboku is still far from being finished. Let’s say he dies at chap 900. And let’s say Kingdom ends at chap 1200/1300

Riboku would have been the main antagonist of the show for like 2/3 of it. And he would keep having the biggest impact / relationship with the MC : death or Ouki / Duke, all of Shin growth was against Riboku etc etc.

And from historical spoils : Riboku won’t even die in a war but because of plot and politics

Kou En is very likely a monster of the highest caliber but I def think in the end of the manga there will still be a case for Riboku to be the biggest general
 
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