Powers & Abilities The Pinnacle of Dreams and Manifestation of Power

[nik87]

What does that have to do with my post? @nik87 refers to Zoro as a power hungry Warrior, who desires nothing but strength. That is false.

If Zoro was a "power hungry warrior, who desires nothing but strength", then he would want to be the Strongest person in the entire World, not just the World's Strongest Swordsman.

"Strength" is not Zoro's desire. His desire is to stand at the top of a specific fighting style, in which strength is required to achieve.

Where did you see Zoro not desire to be stronger than non-swordsmen?
Why did he target Kaido, a non-swordsman?

No matter how hard you try, you wont be able to avoid a fact that Zoro's Demon God is a manifestation of power.
Meanwhile, Luffy's Sun God is a manifestation of freedom.

All his life Zoro desired power and turned that desire into a God form that triples one's power.
There is no need to cope when facts are in front of your eyes from the start.
I told yall Luffy wont be #1 as long as Zoro is alive and you cant act like you dont know why anymore.

 

[DarkKingSlander]

Where did you see Zoro not desire to be stronger than non-swordsmen?
Why did he target Kaido, a non-swordsman?

No matter how hard you try, you wont be able to avoid a fact that Zoro's Demon God is a manifestation of power.
Meanwhile, Luffy's Sun God is a manifestation of freedom.

All his life Zoro desired power and turned that desire into a God form that triples one's power.
There is no need to cope when facts are in front of your eyes from the start.
I told yall Luffy wont be #1 as long as Zoro is alive and you cant act like you dont know why anymore.

There's no way you think oda will make zoro luffys superior. I dont know what kind of spell zoro put on you, but you have to fight it. Im not giving up on you.

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

Meanwhile, Luffy's Sun God is a manifestation of freedom.

Freedom = superior strength.

If Luffy's Sun God is a manifestation of freedom, then it's also a manifestation of power; no surprise one of Luffy's goal is to become the strongest overall, while Zoro is about swordsmanship alone.

Post automatically merged: Jan 14, 2023

If you could offer Luffy freedom without having to defeat enemies or even be strong at all, he'd probably take it without hesitation.

Not in the slightest. It's factual that Luffy wants to be the strongest person alive in order to protect everybody. His concept of freedom isn't individualistic but kind of paternalistic, he won't feel himself fully free unless he can stop every threat opposing the freedom he believes in (and such threat has the strength to subdue those weaker yet seeking freedom too).

Not only we had an explicit statement from Luffy on his desire of becoming the strongest but also a whole conversation linking strength to freedom, not only individual but as the ability to stop every threat opposing the freedom of others who can't protect themselves.

Luffy's concept of freedom demands achieving superior strength.

 

[nik87]

There's no way you think oda will make zoro luffys superior. I dont know what kind of spell zoro put on you, but you have to fight it. Im not giving up on you.

He cant make him superior when he always was superior... Zoro literally manifested power in god form. Luffy cant beat that.

Freedom = superior strength.

And the manifestation of power itself is weaker than that, lol? Yall really cant digest Zoro being superior...
The only freedom he got is to manipulate his own body and other stuff, that is freedom they spoke about when Nika Awakening was revealed. It gave freedom to his body manipulation alongside greater strength. That will never trump god manifestation of power itself.

I am sure Luffybros will make up a thousand headcanons how freedom beats power but freedom is freedom and power is power.

 

[Taylor_]

Freedom = superior strength.

If Luffy's Sun God is a manifestation of freedom, then it's also a manifestation of power; no surprise one of Luffy's goal is to become the strongest overall, while Zoro is about swordsmanship alone.

Post automatically merged: Jan 14, 2023

Luffy's concept of freedom demands achieving superior strength.

"Zoro is about swordsmanship alone",


If that is true

why was he doing squats for 500 reps +

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

And the manifestation of power itself is weaker than that, lol? Yall really cant digest Zoro being superior...
The only freedom he got is to manipulate his own body and other stuff, that is freedom they spoke about when Nika Awakening was revealed. It gave freedom to his body manipulation alongside greater strength. That will never trump god manifestation of power itself.

I am sure Luffybros will make up a thousand headcanons how freedom beats power but freedom is freedom and power is power.

I don't need to digest any of your twisted misreadings of this story, Nik.

This whole "manifestation of power itself" isn't even supported but by your overreaching theories, which always assume premises that are just headcanons. In the reality of this story, Luffy sees power as a requisite to achieve his concept of freedom, which is deeply ingrained in his ability to protect everybody; an ability explicitly linked at least twice times to not only growing strong but growing stronger than everybody else.

In the longterm, beyond your random comparison between a Zoan awakening and a myth-based name for a fighting mode, Luffy not only wants to be the strongest person but wants it to ensure he achieves the freedom he seeks. He set this goal after those opposing freedom prevented Sabo from enjoying his and the realization that he'd need to grow the strongest to fully ensure the freedom of those he wants to protect; as explicitly stated in Enies Lobby.

The leitmotif of this manga is freedom; and only Luffy is reaching the strength required to bring down those opposing it. Zoro will always fall short because his character will never be meant to grow that much; his power, as in its conception, is too thematically irrelevant for Oda to make him the strongest person in the world because, in this world he created, swordsmanship is secondary.

"Zoro is about swordsmanship alone",


If that is true

why was he doing squats for 500 reps +

Because you need physical strength to perform a physical discipline. Doesn't mean Zoro's goal of strength is the same or higher than Luffy's, who aims at the strongest overall, not whoever holds the status of Strongest Swordsman in order to surpass them and achieve such greatness.

 

[nik87]

his whole "manifestation of power itself" isn't even supported but by your overreaching theories

It is supported by manga facts that desire brings all things into this world and peak of desire are god forms.
Sun god, rain god, earth god, forest god are all peaks of certain desires. Demon God from Zoro is as well.
Luffy is the peak of desire for freedom and coincidentally his definition of being Pirate King is being FREE.

Nobody denies that Luffy doesnt desire power but you are pretending that Zoro didnt manifest power in god form.
Nobody desired power more than Zoro because Demon God devil fruit doesnt exist yet, Zoro created it for the first time.
He is the one who took desire for power and manifested it in a god form Asura.

While everyone desires freedom, they didnt manifest into a Sun God. While everyone desires power, only Zoro manifested Demon God.

Zoro will always fall short because his character will never be meant to grow that much

Zoro will never fail because no matter how strong he gets, he always can triple his power with Demon God.
And he is already strong enough to demolish a guy tougher than Kaido without even tripling his power.
Yall cant even imagine how powerful Zoro is and he has yet to master the path of god...

 

[Tai long]

Every straw hat will be the history's best in his desired domain. Luffy will be freest in history, Sanji the best cook in history, Chopper will be the best doctor. And Zoro will be the strongest. Luffy being able to make the history's strongest his right hand man will be testament of Luffy having the greatest ability - to make even the strongest his ally.

maybe he would be the strongest swordsman. something he is known for

 

[Xione]

Luffy himself is the manifestation of strength within the confines of the world of One Piece.

The very core of Luffy character since his childhood has been related to strength.

And not just strength to be the strongest in 1 fighting style, which is what Zoro is. But strength to have the power to do whatever wants, so nobody in the world could stop him.

You speak of Desire..Zoro doesn't desire to be the most powerful in the world. He simply desires to stand at the Pinnacle of 1 fighting style. That is not manifestation of strength.

 

[matt245]

What does that have to do with my post? @nik87 refers to Zoro as a power hungry Warrior, who desires nothing but strength. That is false.

If Zoro was a "power hungry warrior, who desires nothing but strength", then he would want to be the Strongest person in the entire World, not just the World's Strongest Swordsman.

"Strength" is not Zoro's desire. His desire is to stand at the top of a specific fighting style, in which strength is required to achieve.

My point is, what is he supposed to stand at the top of? Perhaps the strongest devil fruit user despite not having one? Maybe the strongest brawler even tho he uses swords? Or perhaps you want him to be the strongest female? You got my point now?

Post automatically merged: Jan 14, 2023

Luffy himself is the manifestation of strength within the confines of the world of One Piece.

The very core of Luffy character since his childhood has been related to strength.

Wait, what?

 

[Thabeast]

Zoro doesn't desire nothing but strength. He desires to be the Strongest in a specific fighting style.

So he desires strength lol stop the mental gymnastics. It doesn't make much of a difference whether he wants to be the strongest man or the strongest swordsman, he still desires strength.

Zoro, ever since he was a kid, wanted to be strong enough that his name reaches the heavens, he wanted strength.

What you said applies more to Luffy for example. Luffy didn't desire strenght in particular. He wanted to be the Pirate King, a goal which requires strength so he has to become strong but he doesn't desire strength in particular like Zoro does.

 

[Xione]

My point is, what is he supposed to stand at the top of? Perhaps the strongest devil fruit user despite not having one? Maybe the strongest brawler even tho he uses swords? Or perhaps you want him to be the strongest female? You got my point now?

Post automatically merged: Jan 14, 2023

Wait, what?

???

Post automatically merged: Jan 14, 2023

So he desires strength lol stop the mental gymnastics. It doesn't make much of a difference whether he wants to be the strongest man or the strongest swordsman, he still desires strength.

Zoro, ever since he was a kid, wanted to be strong enough that his name reaches the heavens, he wanted strength.
You can say that Luffy doesn't desire nothing but strength, that would be valid. Luffy wanted to be free/Pirate King, a goal which requires strength so he has to become strong but he doesn't desire strength in particular like Zoro does.

Me desiring to be the top boxer, doesn't equate to desiring to be the top fighter who can whoop on anyone.

Big difference in two desires. You're speaking of mental gymnastics, yet trying to play them by trying to combine two very different things into the same.

 

[nik87]

Luffy himself is the manifestation of strength within the confines of the world of One Piece.

The very core of Luffy character since his childhood has been related to strength.

And not just strength to be the strongest in 1 fighting style, which is what Zoro is. But strength to have the power to do whatever wants, so nobody in the world could stop him.

You speak of Desire..Zoro doesn't desire to be the most powerful in the world. He simply desires to stand at the Pinnacle of 1 fighting style. That is not manifestation of strength.

Use one word to solve this puzzle:
1. Sun god is a manifestation of ???
2. Demon god is a manifestation of ???

 

[comrade]

What does that have to do with my post? @nik87 refers to Zoro as a power hungry Warrior, who desires nothing but strength. That is false.

If Zoro was a "power hungry warrior, who desires nothing but strength", then he would want to be the Strongest person in the entire World, not just the World's Strongest Swordsman.

"Strength" is not Zoro's desire. His desire is to stand at the top of a specific fighting style, in which strength is required to achieve.

Because Zoro's dream is tied to a promise. He grew up in a swordsman-Dojo with Kuina being his best friend and peer in regards to swordsmanship. As Kuina correctly pointed out that as an adult, she will ultimately fall behind due to lacking the physical power required for their craft, Zoro made a pact with her that one day, one of them will be the best at the said craft, which means being stronger than everyone else who uses that craft. Wouldn't really make sense to make a promise to be stronger than a giant with a mace or axe. Wouldn't really make sense in that context.

But as I said, Kuina herself pointed out, physical strength is important. Brook pointed out that physical strength determines the destructive power of a swordsman. And we know that Haki is crucial for swordsmanship too, as it massively boosts the craft.

- Maximizing hardening to not allow a single scratch on the blade, as it would be a shame
- Maximizing Flow to cut "everything and nothing"
- Maximizing conqueror's coating to maximize the attack power
- Maximizing observation to avoid attacks from top tier peers which, if connected, would equate a one shot due to the lethality of the craft

Rayleigh even had the most advanced form of armament, which is internal destruction, in his pocket, even though it isn't directly incorporated into swordsmanship. He just unlocked it on the side when maximizing his Hakis.

Given the strongest in history were and are swordsmen, mostly without a DF (Roger, Rayleigh, Mihawk, Shanks, Oden, Ryuma most likely too and Xebec stands to question, but at least he was a swordsman), Being the strongest among the swordsmen equates being the strongest in the world.

Roger reigned supreme with Haki and a blade and put the world to heel. And Haki and a blade are the bread and butter of a swordsman.

 

[centurion]

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

My point is, what is he supposed to stand at the top of? Perhaps the strongest devil fruit user despite not having one? Maybe the strongest brawler even tho he uses swords? Or perhaps you want him to be the strongest female? You got my point now?

Post automatically merged: Jan 14, 2023

Wait, what?

You still don't get my point. Zoro's ambition stops once he becomes the WSS. That's the end of it. He doesn't strive to become strong enough to go beyond that. Hence "strength" in and of itself is not Zoros ultimate desire. That's why Nik calling Zoro a "a power hungry warrior who only desires strength" is BS, because if he ultimately desired strength above all else, then he wouldn't stop at just the WSS.

If something happened to Mihawk right now, and the World started recognizing Zoro as the new WSS, then Zoro will have reached his goal, and would no longer strive to become stronger and stronger.

We saw the complacency in Zoro prior to meeting Mihawk. He wasn't going to extreme lengths to become stronger back then. In fact he thought he was plenty good enough to challenge and defeat Mihawk. It took that rude awakening from Mihawk to even get him to realize how far he still needed to go. That's not how a power hungry warrior who only desires strength would act. There would be no complacency. He desires to be as strong as it takes to reach his end goal of being recognized as the WSS, that's it.

 

[Xione]

Use one word to solve this puzzle:
1. Sun god is a manifestation of ???
2. Demon god is a manifestation of ???

1. There was a mythical figure in the world of OP who was called the sun god.
2. There is no Demon God other than in Two Piece written by Nik87.

So you're asking me a question about a OP character and a headcanon character. What're we doing here bro?

 

[nik87]

Hence "strength" in and of itself is not Zoros ultimate desire.

Demon god is a manifestation of what? Use one word to describe that desire to avoid headcanons.

Zoro's ambition stops once he becomes the WSS.

It stops because there is nothing above WSS in One Piece. Was that so hard to figure out?
There were 3 characters with World's Strongest titles and only one is left - the one Zoro is after.

1. There was a mythical figure in the world of OP who was called the sun god.
2. There is no Demon God other than in Two Piece written by Nik87.

1. Sun god is a manifestation of certain desire that someone dreamed up before Luffy. That desire is freedom.
2. Zoro's Asura is a Demon God and that is a manga fact. It is manifestation of desire for power and it reached godhood first time ever.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Demon god is a manifestation of what? Use one word to describe that desire to avoid headcanons.


It stops because there is nothing above WSS in One Piece. Was that so hard to figure out?
There were 3 characters with World's Strongest titles and only one is left - the one Zoro is after.


1. Sun god is a manifestation of certain desire that someone dreamed up before Luffy. That desire is freedom.
2. Zoro's Asura is a Demon God and that is a manga fact. It is manifestation of desire for power and it reached godhood first time ever.

Hate to burst your bubble buddy, but there is already a Devil Fruit manifested for the desire of Strength/Power, and that one was eaten by Jesus Burgess.

 

[Xione]

1. Sun god is a manifestation of certain desire that someone dreamed up before Luffy. That desire is freedom.
2. Zoro's Asura is a Demon God and that is a manga fact. It is manifestation of desire for power and it reached godhood first time ever.

1. Sun God is the manifestation of a WARRIOR. A warrior so powerful that he could liberate the slaves from the powerful individuals who oppressed the people and enslaved them. He is the manifestation of the desires of slaves for there to be a powerful warrior who liberates. So no it's not just "Freedom" no he's the manifestation of a STRONG WARRIOR of Liberation.

2. That is not a manga fact. You're comparing apples to oranges here bruh. Zoro has a sword technique of Demon God. That is not the equivalent of the religious/mythical figure that was Sun God Nika. Only proper comparison in the manga we have to Nika, is the Buddha which Sengoku has. That's it.