What about the tension of the fight though? We know that luffy wont die because he is the mc but what does it do for the tension for the being you have hyped up as the strongest creature and could not kill foddermon but koed luffy 5 times until luffy died and brought himself to life with the god fruit?
Controversial Time to discuss the debacle that was Wano
- Thread starter Pooth
- Start date
It was aight I guess. I was fine with it until Kaido's defeat and after that, I completely lost interest. Most of the things I read in Wano werent out of the ordinary with One Piece but Kaido's character is really important for me and Oda ruined him at his climax so the series fell off for me. Like seriously, Im the type of guy that actually liked Ulti's defeat and Nami's usage of Zeus, IM NOT A FUCKING ODA ANGEL I SWEAR TO GOD, i liked the fact that Nami could use Zeus for anything and I liked her final attack. This just goes to show that Im not that picky with writing like most people here are, but Kaido made me mad for like 4 months. I couldnt sleep properly, i couldnt think properly, life was a mess. It was THAT bad. I still have hope that Kaido comes back eventually
The "mess" imo comes less from actual plot direction but the decisions Oda made during the tail end of it....or the lack of?
- No Awakening for Yonko or the commanders.
- Ulti and P1 were oddly wasted and IDK why
- Jack losing to Inu is fine, but not giving Inu/Neko half a chapter with an actual fight was lame
- Basically no relevance for the Numbers, only the 1 Number was seen post-Wano. Maybe Apoo has them, but who cares at this point.
- The complete and utter waste of BMs crew....
- Lack of Zoro's lineage and just overall a rushed end to the arc (no Kiku reactions about Izo, no Hyou goodbye onscreen....)
And the list goes on. The arc unironically needed ~20 more chapters of battle when you factor in the above.
- No Awakening for Yonko or the commanders.
- Ulti and P1 were oddly wasted and IDK why
- Jack losing to Inu is fine, but not giving Inu/Neko half a chapter with an actual fight was lame
- Basically no relevance for the Numbers, only the 1 Number was seen post-Wano. Maybe Apoo has them, but who cares at this point.
- The complete and utter waste of BMs crew....
- Lack of Zoro's lineage and just overall a rushed end to the arc (no Kiku reactions about Izo, no Hyou goodbye onscreen....)
And the list goes on. The arc unironically needed ~20 more chapters of battle when you factor in the above.
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To me, Wano had three main issues going against it;
1) Inability to deliver on hype.
2) Story/character bloat.
3) Atrocious pacing.
The inability to deliver on the roughly decade long hype train that Oda established far in advance gave the whole arc a crushing aura of disappointment. This was Oda's first major mistake. Openly promising to make Wano greater than Marineford was dangerous advertising on his part. This is the more minor of the three issues however.
The second major mistake was bloat. Perhaps Oda's greatest weakness as a writer is his self-indulgence and lack of self control. Oda will indulge in whatever whim takes his fancy. This usually manifests in Oda creating about twice as many characters than necessary and then having to go out of his way to find something for all of these extra characters to do.
The aforementioned bloat then severely affects the pacing, the final and most crippling mistake.
Wano's pacing is among the very worst that I have ever read in a major shonen arc. Wano manages to be both snail paced and rushed which sounds paradoxical at first but is rather simple to explain.
Oda creates too many characters, this causes bloat. This bloat slows the story to a crawl as Oda has to keep track of twice as many characters as necessary all while finding things for all of these characters to do. He focuses on this and before even Oda knows, we are over 60 chapters in (the length of whole Pre-TS arcs and more chapters than Marineford itself) and still aren't near having a battle. Oda panics, we get battle, it is rushed and lacklustre, Oda is still having to deal with a bloated cast, whole arc spirals out of control and the payoff (10 years of expectation) is a complete bomb.
The pacing is what kills Wano's entertainment factor more than anything. To put into perspective, Wano Arc is over 150+ chapters long while the entire Summit War Saga was 108 chapters long.
The faster a flawed arc is, the less time readers have to notice mistakes especially if the fast pacing is combined with flashy eye candy. The slower a flawed arc is, the more time readers have to notice said flaws. Wano is painstakingly slow and it's eye candy is painfully rushed.
Oda completely screwed up by dragging out things nobody wanted to see and rushing things that folk were excited for.
Wano is what happens when a storyteller overextends themselves. Oda is certainly a capable storyteller but he exceeded what he is capable of when attempting Wano. He was overly ambitious and overly indulgent.
If Oda had trimmed down the cast and made Wano 1/2 as long with a focus on the fights then he probably would have been on a winner but he didn't so here we are.
Not everything would have been fixed if Oda had followed the aforementioned suggestions (there would still be the usual illogical action or contrived scenario that typically comes with Oda's writing these days) but the problems that most crippled the entertainment value of Wano would have been avoided.
Well, those are my overall thoughts on what is my most disappointing entertainment experience to date. Thank you for the tag @Pooth
1) Inability to deliver on hype.
2) Story/character bloat.
3) Atrocious pacing.
The inability to deliver on the roughly decade long hype train that Oda established far in advance gave the whole arc a crushing aura of disappointment. This was Oda's first major mistake. Openly promising to make Wano greater than Marineford was dangerous advertising on his part. This is the more minor of the three issues however.
The second major mistake was bloat. Perhaps Oda's greatest weakness as a writer is his self-indulgence and lack of self control. Oda will indulge in whatever whim takes his fancy. This usually manifests in Oda creating about twice as many characters than necessary and then having to go out of his way to find something for all of these extra characters to do.
The aforementioned bloat then severely affects the pacing, the final and most crippling mistake.
Wano's pacing is among the very worst that I have ever read in a major shonen arc. Wano manages to be both snail paced and rushed which sounds paradoxical at first but is rather simple to explain.
Oda creates too many characters, this causes bloat. This bloat slows the story to a crawl as Oda has to keep track of twice as many characters as necessary all while finding things for all of these characters to do. He focuses on this and before even Oda knows, we are over 60 chapters in (the length of whole Pre-TS arcs and more chapters than Marineford itself) and still aren't near having a battle. Oda panics, we get battle, it is rushed and lacklustre, Oda is still having to deal with a bloated cast, whole arc spirals out of control and the payoff (10 years of expectation) is a complete bomb.
The pacing is what kills Wano's entertainment factor more than anything. To put into perspective, Wano Arc is over 150+ chapters long while the entire Summit War Saga was 108 chapters long.
The faster a flawed arc is, the less time readers have to notice mistakes especially if the fast pacing is combined with flashy eye candy. The slower a flawed arc is, the more time readers have to notice said flaws. Wano is painstakingly slow and it's eye candy is painfully rushed.
Oda completely screwed up by dragging out things nobody wanted to see and rushing things that folk were excited for.
Wano is what happens when a storyteller overextends themselves. Oda is certainly a capable storyteller but he exceeded what he is capable of when attempting Wano. He was overly ambitious and overly indulgent.
If Oda had trimmed down the cast and made Wano 1/2 as long with a focus on the fights then he probably would have been on a winner but he didn't so here we are.
Not everything would have been fixed if Oda had followed the aforementioned suggestions (there would still be the usual illogical action or contrived scenario that typically comes with Oda's writing these days) but the problems that most crippled the entertainment value of Wano would have been avoided.
Well, those are my overall thoughts on what is my most disappointing entertainment experience to date. Thank you for the tag @Pooth
H
I wish. But in reality there are tons of fanboys that actually thinks Wano was Peak Piece.
[automerge]1671455146[/automerge]
So we agree that One Piece is important for its fights and not the stupid Lore.
I disagree about the pacing being the worst part. Once the arc is done the pace doesn't matter since you can read all of it way faster then what we got "weekly".
I also agree with you that doesn't delivering the hype isn't the biggest deal since Wano not being the greatest arc so far doesn't mean it is the worst simply because Ofa promised otherwise.
I would also say that the cast isn't the problem but how Oda handled it. Let's say he could have had the same cast that the less important had their moments in arc 1 and 2 but in arc 3 he should focus only in what is important for the readers and story. What was the problem to me was the focus on fodders. I'm saying real nameless fodders not the secondary cast.
But the ultimate problem to me was destroying characters development or not giving it. Sanji was terrible in this arc that should have being his redemption from WCI another arc that he was terrible. He leaves his nakamura in dangerous, he says that he wanted to beat on woman, the whole plot of beating woman is disgusting for his character.
Zoro was promised a lit of things that weren't delivered. And we had the stupid plot of King not being a swordsman and Zoro willing to bite him in order to win. I understand the plot but would have being better if he actually did or if we had any confirmation of King being or not a swordsman.
And finally Luffy. It is ridiculous how Oda treated the main character in order to give fake tension to the arc. And even more ridiculous how he ruined 20+ years of work chaging his DF.
[automerge]1671455146[/automerge]
To me, Wano had three main issues going against it;
1) Inability to deliver on hype.
2) Story/character bloat.
3) Atrocious pacing.
The inability to deliver on the roughly decade long hype train that Oda established far in advance gave the whole arc a crushing aura of disappointment. This was Oda's first major mistake. Openly promising to make Wano greater than Marineford was dangerous advertising on his part. This is the more minor of the three issues however.
The second major mistake was bloat. Perhaps Oda's greatest weakness as a writer is his self-indulgence and lack of self control. Oda will indulge in whatever whim takes his fancy. This usually manifests in Oda creating about twice as many characters than necessary and then having to go out of his way to find something for all of these extra characters to do.
The aforementioned bloat then severely affects the pacing, the final and most crippling mistake.
Wano's pacing is among the very worst that I have ever read in a major shonen arc. Wano manages to be both snail paced and rushed which sounds paradoxical at first but is rather simple to explain.
Oda creates too many characters, this causes bloat. This bloat slows the story to a crawl as Oda has to keep track of twice as many characters as necessary all while finding things for all of these characters to do. He focuses on this and before even Oda knows, we are over 60 chapters in (the length of whole Pre-TS arcs and more chapters than Marineford itself) and still aren't near having a battle. Oda panics, we get battle, it is rushed and lacklustre, Oda is still having to deal with a bloated cast, whole arc spirals out of control and the payoff (10 years of expectation) is a complete bomb.
The pacing is what kills Wano's entertainment factor more than anything. To put into perspective, Wano Arc is over 150+ chapters long while the entire Summit War Saga was 108 chapters long.
The faster a flawed arc is, the less time readers have to notice mistakes especially if the fast pacing is combined with flashy eye candy. The slower a flawed arc is, the more time readers have to notice said flaws. Wano is painstakingly slow and it's eye candy is painfully rushed.
Oda completely screwed up by dragging out things nobody wanted to see and rushing things that folk were excited for.
Wano is what happens when a storyteller overextends themselves. Oda is certainly a capable storyteller but he exceeded what he is capable of when attempting Wano. He was overly ambitious and overly indulgent.
If Oda had trimmed down the cast and made Wano 1/2 as long with a focus on the fights then he probably would have been on a winner but he didn't so here we are.
Not everything would have been fixed if Oda had followed the aforementioned suggestions (there would still be the usual illogical action or contrived scenario that typically comes with Oda's writing these days) but the problems that most crippled the entertainment value of Wano would have been avoided.
Well, those are my overall thoughts on what is my most disappointing entertainment experience to date. Thank you for the tag @Pooth
1) Inability to deliver on hype.
2) Story/character bloat.
3) Atrocious pacing.
The inability to deliver on the roughly decade long hype train that Oda established far in advance gave the whole arc a crushing aura of disappointment. This was Oda's first major mistake. Openly promising to make Wano greater than Marineford was dangerous advertising on his part. This is the more minor of the three issues however.
The second major mistake was bloat. Perhaps Oda's greatest weakness as a writer is his self-indulgence and lack of self control. Oda will indulge in whatever whim takes his fancy. This usually manifests in Oda creating about twice as many characters than necessary and then having to go out of his way to find something for all of these extra characters to do.
The aforementioned bloat then severely affects the pacing, the final and most crippling mistake.
Wano's pacing is among the very worst that I have ever read in a major shonen arc. Wano manages to be both snail paced and rushed which sounds paradoxical at first but is rather simple to explain.
Oda creates too many characters, this causes bloat. This bloat slows the story to a crawl as Oda has to keep track of twice as many characters as necessary all while finding things for all of these characters to do. He focuses on this and before even Oda knows, we are over 60 chapters in (the length of whole Pre-TS arcs and more chapters than Marineford itself) and still aren't near having a battle. Oda panics, we get battle, it is rushed and lacklustre, Oda is still having to deal with a bloated cast, whole arc spirals out of control and the payoff (10 years of expectation) is a complete bomb.
The pacing is what kills Wano's entertainment factor more than anything. To put into perspective, Wano Arc is over 150+ chapters long while the entire Summit War Saga was 108 chapters long.
The faster a flawed arc is, the less time readers have to notice mistakes especially if the fast pacing is combined with flashy eye candy. The slower a flawed arc is, the more time readers have to notice said flaws. Wano is painstakingly slow and it's eye candy is painfully rushed.
Oda completely screwed up by dragging out things nobody wanted to see and rushing things that folk were excited for.
Wano is what happens when a storyteller overextends themselves. Oda is certainly a capable storyteller but he exceeded what he is capable of when attempting Wano. He was overly ambitious and overly indulgent.
If Oda had trimmed down the cast and made Wano 1/2 as long with a focus on the fights then he probably would have been on a winner but he didn't so here we are.
Not everything would have been fixed if Oda had followed the aforementioned suggestions (there would still be the usual illogical action or contrived scenario that typically comes with Oda's writing these days) but the problems that most crippled the entertainment value of Wano would have been avoided.
Well, those are my overall thoughts on what is my most disappointing entertainment experience to date. Thank you for the tag @Pooth
I disagree about the pacing being the worst part. Once the arc is done the pace doesn't matter since you can read all of it way faster then what we got "weekly".
I also agree with you that doesn't delivering the hype isn't the biggest deal since Wano not being the greatest arc so far doesn't mean it is the worst simply because Ofa promised otherwise.
I would also say that the cast isn't the problem but how Oda handled it. Let's say he could have had the same cast that the less important had their moments in arc 1 and 2 but in arc 3 he should focus only in what is important for the readers and story. What was the problem to me was the focus on fodders. I'm saying real nameless fodders not the secondary cast.
But the ultimate problem to me was destroying characters development or not giving it. Sanji was terrible in this arc that should have being his redemption from WCI another arc that he was terrible. He leaves his nakamura in dangerous, he says that he wanted to beat on woman, the whole plot of beating woman is disgusting for his character.
Zoro was promised a lit of things that weren't delivered. And we had the stupid plot of King not being a swordsman and Zoro willing to bite him in order to win. I understand the plot but would have being better if he actually did or if we had any confirmation of King being or not a swordsman.
And finally Luffy. It is ridiculous how Oda treated the main character in order to give fake tension to the arc. And even more ridiculous how he ruined 20+ years of work chaging his DF.
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The importance and quality of the lore of One Piece is overrated by the fandom. When nearly every solution or outcome of an arc hinges on whether or not the main cast can brute force their way out of a fight then it is very much a fighting manga.
I have made a few posts elsewhere on this forum regarding the importance of pacing and of Oda's bloated Wano cast. He very much should have not created so many characters, not brought in characters that had no business being there and he should have combined other characters together.
Oda not giving development to his main characters likely happened because he had a bloated cast with far too many characters thus dividing his focus.
As for the rest of that, well Oda is just going to Oda at this point. Still, had he crammed Wano into about 70-80 action packed chapters with a focus on fights, folk would not have had as much time to dwell on writing issues.
If a story teller cannot be good then they should at least be entertaining. Lol.
I have made a few posts elsewhere on this forum regarding the importance of pacing and of Oda's bloated Wano cast. He very much should have not created so many characters, not brought in characters that had no business being there and he should have combined other characters together.
Oda not giving development to his main characters likely happened because he had a bloated cast with far too many characters thus dividing his focus.
As for the rest of that, well Oda is just going to Oda at this point. Still, had he crammed Wano into about 70-80 action packed chapters with a focus on fights, folk would not have had as much time to dwell on writing issues.
If a story teller cannot be good then they should at least be entertaining. Lol.
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H
I think the main point is the decisions he make. We had time to have more focus on important characters. But we had many useless panels or pages of constant running going nowhere. Run to a place then something happened then run to another place just to give time to other fights end. Those panels could have being used for character focus instead of what I call Canon fillers.
And the action part also sucks, the decisions Oda made with the important characters. Usopp not fighting anyone relevant or at least Numbers. Page One being oneshotted by BM. Ulti being almost defeated by her too. Oda nerfing Zeus so much and turning him into that stupid climact tempo weapon. Kid and Law limitless but limited awakening that seems to do no damage on BM. She not getting defeated by their abilities. I personally hated Robin out of nowhere ultimate. Brook and Chopper also didn't defeated anyone relevant. CP0 meaningless plot. Zunisha meaningless plot. Minks meaningless help. A war between gifted and minks would be much more interesting.
And the action part also sucks, the decisions Oda made with the important characters. Usopp not fighting anyone relevant or at least Numbers. Page One being oneshotted by BM. Ulti being almost defeated by her too. Oda nerfing Zeus so much and turning him into that stupid climact tempo weapon. Kid and Law limitless but limited awakening that seems to do no damage on BM. She not getting defeated by their abilities. I personally hated Robin out of nowhere ultimate. Brook and Chopper also didn't defeated anyone relevant. CP0 meaningless plot. Zunisha meaningless plot. Minks meaningless help. A war between gifted and minks would be much more interesting.
@Pooth
How the Youtube's community reacted to Shitty Country's ending ? Who kept swallowing Lolda's dump ? Who accepted that Shit Piece has become no different from those generic shonen manga that have stories plagued by horrible cliches, but kept making videos about it ? Who gave up on Shit Piece and started making videos about other mangas that are truly worth it ?
How the Youtube's community reacted to Shitty Country's ending ? Who kept swallowing Lolda's dump ? Who accepted that Shit Piece has become no different from those generic shonen manga that have stories plagued by horrible cliches, but kept making videos about it ? Who gave up on Shit Piece and started making videos about other mangas that are truly worth it ?