US Presidental Race : 2020

Who is taking the US Presidential Election ?


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#81
It would certainely be interesting to see Bernie going against Trump, none of the other Democrats candidates can really match him nor that I find them to be really interesting. It will be quite a longtime before the democrats and republicans can get true figureheads who follow the traditionnal values of their party.

I have always had a special interest in observing foreign countries' elections and this one looks like it will be a very memorable one.
 
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#85
I really, really don't want Bernie to be the nominee, let alone win the election. I used to actually like the guy before I really understood what he is talking about. But when you actually look at his policies, he's actually the most radical person in modern history to get close to the presidency. Like I kid you not when I say that I think Bernie is more dangerous than Trump, who might be a bit corrupt and have a shit personality, but supports policies that are generally in line with our fundamental American concepts of freedom and are overall not too different from the policies of previous presidents in modern history.

Bernie on the other hand is a literal communist. He always talks about how what he is doing is the "right" thing to do without ever actually contemplating the implications of his policies. He gets support because he talks about "economic justice" and "social justice" and "racial justice" which are good euphemisms for the actual substance of Bernie's politics= large scale government control over almost every major industry in the country. This isn't merely welfare he's arguing for, Bernie sanders wants a soviet style expansion of the government's powers.

I could go over ever little gripe I have with Bernie but here's just a big one:

Bernie sanders wants to literally nationalize the private healthcare industry. I don't care if other European countries do this, this isn't good. Monopolies aren't good, whether they are corporate monopolies or government monopolies. Its not good to kill competition. Its not good for an entire industry, especially an essential industry like healthcare, to be in the hands of one person. Why do you trust the government so much that you would let them manage the entire healthcare industry? This is lunacy and it goes against the very foundations of freedom that America was founded on. The founding fathers were so weary of the powers of government that they didn't even allow for the government to have a monopoly on military, with the second amendment basically allowing for a private militia. Yes, other European countries do this and yes those countries do have better health on average than America, but that doesn't mean we need to follow their path. I'm not a supporter of GOP free market fundamentalism, I think some sort of free healthcare plan is needed in America. But why not have a tax funded public option that everyone pays into? Something similar to the public school system but for healthcare and nationally funded. we could open government hospitals while keeping private hospitals and the free market in existence. I don't see why our only option, according to Bernie supporters, is full government control over the industry and why they want Americans to have to choose between no healthcare and communist healthcare in the 2020 election as if there are no other alternatives.

Bernie does this because according to him, "healthcare is a human right". I'm sorry to break this to you, but this simply isn't true. Rights, as defined by the founding fathers and other enlightenment thinkers before them were things that were innate and god given. This is the only definition of a right and any other definition is just an attempt by far leftists to redefine a word in order to fit their agenda, aka communist propaganda.

Health in of itself isn't a right. You objectively do not have the right to good health. There are many incurable diseases that exist and many people who get these diseases. Some people die young, some people die old, some people never get sick, and some people are born sick. Hence, health isn't a right, it is a luxury that only some people can have. If health isn't a right, then how can healthcare be a right? Resources are limited and hence there can only be a limited amount of healthcare resources in America, the only way to create more healthcare is via capitalism and the free market. Socialized medicine doesn't remove scarcity, it just puts the government, instead of the natural order from a free market, determine who gets and who doesn't get healthcare.

Im not saying we cannot have health standards, or healthcare programs, or even free healthcare for everyone. just that healthcare is not a right in any meaningful definition of the word.


lastly, bernie sanders not only wants socialized healthcare, he wants socialized healthcare for illegal immigrants. Which is kind of a dumb idea, but wouldn't be nearly as bad if his immigration policies didn't entail abolishing ICE and border patrol and stopping deportations, effectively allowing for open borders. Can you imagine what would happen if we just removed any sort of meaningful enforcement on immigration law, and then offered high quality healthcare to any illegal immigrant who happens to cross into our borders? it would be a nightmare. millions of people world wide would rush our borders in an attempt to capitalize off Bernie's policies. yes, the middle class would be paying 40% of their income in taxes(which is what it is in Bernie's beloved "socialist" nordic countries) while all that money would be going to non Americans who broke into this country illegally, most of whom won't pay nearly as much in taxes as they'd take in welfare.

I wonder how good our nationalized healthcare will be where for every one middle class American, you'd have 50 Salvadorian peasants leaching off the system. It would probably be so bad that most Americans would want to buy private healthcare, too bad for them because bernie would have already abolished private healthcare.

Seems like in the long run, the only one who would benefit from these policies would be bernie sanders, who would basically be able to buy votes from illegal immigrants(who would be able to vote under Bernie's America as he wants to give all of these people citizenship).

tldr: bernie is a stupid commie and you are better off voting for anyone over him, including Donald trump.
 
H

Homelander

#87
I really, really don't want Bernie to be the nominee, let alone win the election. I used to actually like the guy before I really understood what he is talking about. But when you actually look at his policies, he's actually the most radical person in modern history to get close to the presidency. Like I kid you not when I say that I think Bernie is more dangerous than Trump, who might be a bit corrupt and have a shit personality, but supports policies that are generally in line with our fundamental American concepts of freedom and are overall not too different from the policies of previous presidents in modern history.

Bernie on the other hand is a literal communist. He always talks about how what he is doing is the "right" thing to do without ever actually contemplating the implications of his policies. He gets support because he talks about "economic justice" and "social justice" and "racial justice" which are good euphemisms for the actual substance of Bernie's politics= large scale government control over almost every major industry in the country. This isn't merely welfare he's arguing for, Bernie sanders wants a soviet style expansion of the government's powers.

I could go over ever little gripe I have with Bernie but here's just a big one:

Bernie sanders wants to literally nationalize the private healthcare industry. I don't care if other European countries do this, this isn't good. Monopolies aren't good, whether they are corporate monopolies or government monopolies. Its not good to kill competition. Its not good for an entire industry, especially an essential industry like healthcare, to be in the hands of one person. Why do you trust the government so much that you would let them manage the entire healthcare industry? This is lunacy and it goes against the very foundations of freedom that America was founded on. The founding fathers were so weary of the powers of government that they didn't even allow for the government to have a monopoly on military, with the second amendment basically allowing for a private militia. Yes, other European countries do this and yes those countries do have better health on average than America, but that doesn't mean we need to follow their path. I'm not a supporter of GOP free market fundamentalism, I think some sort of free healthcare plan is needed in America. But why not have a tax funded public option that everyone pays into? Something similar to the public school system but for healthcare and nationally funded. we could open government hospitals while keeping private hospitals and the free market in existence. I don't see why our only option, according to Bernie supporters, is full government control over the industry and why they want Americans to have to choose between no healthcare and communist healthcare in the 2020 election as if there are no other alternatives.

Bernie does this because according to him, "healthcare is a human right". I'm sorry to break this to you, but this simply isn't true. Rights, as defined by the founding fathers and other enlightenment thinkers before them were things that were innate and god given. This is the only definition of a right and any other definition is just an attempt by far leftists to redefine a word in order to fit their agenda, aka communist propaganda.

Health in of itself isn't a right. You objectively do not have the right to good health. There are many incurable diseases that exist and many people who get these diseases. Some people die young, some people die old, some people never get sick, and some people are born sick. Hence, health isn't a right, it is a luxury that only some people can have. If health isn't a right, then how can healthcare be a right? Resources are limited and hence there can only be a limited amount of healthcare resources in America, the only way to create more healthcare is via capitalism and the free market. Socialized medicine doesn't remove scarcity, it just puts the government, instead of the natural order from a free market, determine who gets and who doesn't get healthcare.

Im not saying we cannot have health standards, or healthcare programs, or even free healthcare for everyone. just that healthcare is not a right in any meaningful definition of the word.


lastly, bernie sanders not only wants socialized healthcare, he wants socialized healthcare for illegal immigrants. Which is kind of a dumb idea, but wouldn't be nearly as bad if his immigration policies didn't entail abolishing ICE and border patrol and stopping deportations, effectively allowing for open borders. Can you imagine what would happen if we just removed any sort of meaningful enforcement on immigration law, and then offered high quality healthcare to any illegal immigrant who happens to cross into our borders? it would be a nightmare. millions of people world wide would rush our borders in an attempt to capitalize off Bernie's policies. yes, the middle class would be paying 40% of their income in taxes(which is what it is in Bernie's beloved "socialist" nordic countries) while all that money would be going to non Americans who broke into this country illegally, most of whom won't pay nearly as much in taxes as they'd take in welfare.

I wonder how good our nationalized healthcare will be where for every one middle class American, you'd have 50 Salvadorian peasants leaching off the system. It would probably be so bad that most Americans would want to buy private healthcare, too bad for them because bernie would have already abolished private healthcare.

Seems like in the long run, the only one who would benefit from these policies would be bernie sanders, who would basically be able to buy votes from illegal immigrants(who would be able to vote under Bernie's America as he wants to give all of these people citizenship).

tldr: bernie is a stupid commie and you are better off voting for anyone over him, including Donald trump.
So i ll tell you a little story of a patient who has to sell his entire mortage to pay the premium bills . In the end they have to clear all their lives with debts, so this is the American Dream people talk about. You get sick means you are fucked.

American have to stupid people in the world if bernie is talking meaningful.

NHS has worked well for britain very well . Funny thing is i know a guy from Michigan who prefers Canadian healthcare because he doesnt like his bill to be 2000 $ for a flu shot.

I like Trump btw but bernie makes sense as well. I am shocked people actually oppose him lmao. Guess Demshave collapsed this far they have to nominate retired vice president who think he is running for senate than president.

I rather say people dont deserve bernie. The guy wants to nationalise the healthcare so that future generation do not suffer like their daddies and mums. Its funny people dont actually understand socialism . You are talking of founding fathers i ll tell you the society we are living and they lived is different lmao their ideals and thoughts were so different . Overall you are talking preserving about American ideals and sacrificing something that will benefit long term.

I would say Bernie is not dangerous guy , he is a polish jew and saw the suffering of his family who escaped the Nazis concentration camp . You wouldnt find decent working class politician like him ever period.

If you think creepy uncle joe deserve the nominee its upto you guts lol. He has to deal with hunter biden case on debate against trump they'll open records of all biden s corrupt activity. Trump will finish him eitherway.

Tldr; Your talk of monopoly does not make sense . Naitonalising health care does not mean kill the competition Bernie already talked about raising taxes from the rich . Its not really bad as you think if civilised societies like UK, France ,Denmark , Norway worked it out well i am decently surprised why do you think it wont work.

Funny enough even in Russia which is probably most corrupt nation in the world has decent health care now just figure out if you want to be insured and pay premium for your serious illness in your old age or get covered by Nationalised health care and your bill and expenses are covered by Govt your call bud.
 
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#88
So i ll tell you a little story of a patient who has to sell his entire mortage to pay the premium bills . In the end they have to clear all their lives with debts, so this is the American Dream people talk about. You get sick means you are fucked.
Yes, I understand this is an issue.

I just don't understand why the only solution, according to bernie, is to create a government monopoly over essential care. It does kill competition because every single healthcare provider is all working under the government.

The European healthcare model is better than America's corporate insurance + gofundme model, but its not without flaws. You have other issues like wait times, mismanagement, ect.

which is why I'd support a public option like what Biden wants over Bernie's communism for all
 
#89
Yes, I understand this is an issue.

I just don't understand why the only solution, according to bernie, is to create a government monopoly over essential care. It does kill competition because every single healthcare provider is all working under the government.

The European healthcare model is better than America's corporate insurance + gofundme model, but its not without flaws. You have other issues like wait times, mismanagement, ect.

which is why I'd support a public option like what Biden wants over Bernie's communism for all
You should not be allowed to profit off of the health of other people. Do you not think it’s deeply immoral to price gouge people who need treatment in order to stay alive?
 
#90
You should not be allowed to profit off of the health of other people. Do you not think it’s deeply immoral to price gouge people who need treatment in order to stay alive?
Do you not think that you owe something to people who have saved your life?

doctors and healthcare providers work extremely hard and deserve just compensation.

as far as price Inflation is concerned, Biden is fighting to stop that so that healthcare is affordable for everyone.
 

Jew D. Boy

I Can Go Lower
#91
Do you not think that you owe something to people who have saved your life?

doctors and healthcare providers work extremely hard and deserve just compensation.

as far as price Inflation is concerned, Biden is fighting to stop that so that healthcare is affordable for everyone.
Hi, Medicare biller of half a decade here. Medicare For All is really the only palatable solution - single payer healthcare would not only keep rates affordable, it also provides ample compensation for providers without giving patients crushing debt.

Any involvement from commercial payers, as Biden and everyone else’s plans would still include because capitalism, will send prices skyrocketing, allow for wider usage of the medical necessity denials that leave patients on the hook for the outrageous costs, and give them the chance to exclude a lot of services from coverage. If they’re to be involved at all, they should be limited to the things Medicare flat out doesn’t cover - glasses, hearing aids, other medical “accessories” - but Joe and the rest wouldn’t change a damn thing.

I’ve seen a lot of claims where patients get $50K worth of serious inpatient shit done and only end up with a coinsurance of $1364 through Medicare...compared to Anthem Blue Cross, United Healthcare, and Aetna, who often leave patient responsibility balances of more than $5000 for the same stays. Which one sounds better to you??
 
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H

Homelander

#92
Looks like Bden will win Texas as well and he might lead the delegate by end of super Tuesday wow last 48 hrs sure made huge wave .

Gotta say Bernie just got Caesar treatment !!

We might see more biden endorsment !
 
H

Homelander

#94
Welps Bernie is finished . Biden is possibly in lead with 8 states the last 48 hrs sure has tilted with buttigeg and Amy going down ! What a night for biden !!!
 
#98
Any involvement from commercial payers, as Biden and everyone else’s plans would still include because capitalism, will send prices skyrocketing, allow for wider usage of the medical necessity denials that leave patients on the hook for the outrageous costs, and give them the chance to exclude a lot of services from coverage. If they’re to be involved at all, they should be limited to the things Medicare flat out doesn’t cover - glasses, hearing aids, other medical “accessories” - but Joe and the rest wouldn’t change a damn thing.
But won't everyone who can't afford healthcare just use the public option, which will force healthcare providers to charge competitive prices instead of inflated ones?

if our public school system is able to educate everyone, why can't a public option cover everyone?

by allowing for capitalism, all you do is naturally reduce prices instead of forcibly reducing them, which leads to shortages and wait times. Capitalism also pushes entrepreneurs to innovate to lower prices.

honestly, wouldn't a public option work better since everyone would pay into it via taxes but only some would use it, as opposed to medicare for all, in which everyone would pay and use.
 
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