Chapter Discussion WGS title once again confirmed to be mainly ''SKILL'' based

It's irrelevant what you can do in real life because this isn't real life. This is a fictional piece of work.

In real life you can't send sharp slashes by swinging a sword that could cut through stone. I'm real life you can't surround yourself with a barrier of energy (haki) that protects you from an explosion.

Swordsmanship of haki are very different. One is a fighting style and the other is a power. Haki can be used with swordsmanship. Haki is the power that allowed Oden to scar Kaido. It wasn't how well he could swing a sword.
What, so why even do powerscaling that calculate damage if you're gonna go back to fictional manga rules? You all hinge your argument of a strongest title. Strongest or greatest or skill is real life rules, if you wanna ditch those all be my guest.

It wasnt how well he could swing the sword...well Mihawk didnt cut an iceberg with CoA or CoC didnt he, its how well he could swing the sword. You have no reason to say "A surpasses B in skill" except when B also surpasses A in other stuff.
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The Vista excuse? Really?



These prove Mihawk being weaker than Shanks how?



It's not denial if it was never true to begin with, and Kaido is including pirates he's interacted with, no shit Mihawk's not there.



Yes, you are making up rules. You seem to think there needs to be panels of Mihawk making Akainu shit his pants in a war where he's not his enemy or Kaido specifying Haki to play coy about it being an entirely different fighting style when nowhere in the manga does it display this (in fact, Luffy BEATS Kaido WITH the same fighting style he's been using since chapter one).



World's Strongest Swordsman having a guaranteed win against a weaker swordsman is making up rules? If you think this is using my own logic against me, then you have some serious brain damage.
Uh so i cant use manga panel since Vista is a forbidden word? Yea 1 Commander needed to match Mihawk until Mihawk ask postponement < 10 Commanders needed to even slow down Akainu from killing spree until Shanks stopped him completely just by being present.

Even Marco didnt care about Mihawk being a huge threat like Akainu, he deemed Vista enough. Jozu didnt flinch after receiving Mihawk's slash, while Jozu said Shanks' haki was as strong as ever. You say Kaidou included Pirates he interacted with, show me the panel saying "of all PIRATES i'm INTERACTED with" instead of "few PEOPLE in the WORLD".

Kaidou did mention haki not swordsmanship to play coy...an entirely made-up stuff not existing in the manga. At least me having brain damage according to you makes more sense since your logic is a weaker swordsman with stronger haki to the point of giving an Admiral some Monet treatment losing the will to even fight, to have no possibility to win, against WSS with weaker haki that couldnt even give any threat against Vista or Jozu in Marineford. I can see your need of Mihawk's better feats tho since you cant do anything but saying irrelevant irrelevant all the time and proceed to make your own rules while claiming it as the manga rule.
 
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What, so why even do powerscaling that calculate damage if you're gonna go back to fictional manga rules? You all hinge your argument of a strongest title. Strongest or greatest or skill is real life rules, if you wanna ditch those all be my guest.

It wasnt how well he could swing the sword...well Mihawk didnt cut an iceberg with CoA or CoC didnt he, its how well he could swing the sword. You have no reason to say "A surpasses B in skill" except when B also surpasses A in other stuff.
What are you talking about? Everything I talked about has to do with fictional manga. I just called you out on your BS.

In some examples swordmanship is about how well you can swing a sword. Mihawk is not physically stronger than Kaido or Big Mom but he can channel his strength through a sword or weapon better than them. That's why he was able to perform that incredibly powerful and impressive iceberg cutting feat. But as I and others have already explained, swordsmanship isn't just limited to that.

The mistake you are making is, you are denying or limiting Mihawk swordsmanship. Swordmanship can include haki and power.

I already explained it on another thread.
Wow
:crazwhat::crazwhat::crazwhat:

How many more thread will be created before people accept manga facts? We are losing brain cells reading all these posts.

skill:
/skil/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the ability to do something well; expertise.
"difficult work, taking great skill"

Skill is defined as the ability to do something well. That can be applied to anything from running to reading to fighting.

Swordsmanship or sword fighting refers to the skills and techniques used in combat and training with any type of sword.

All that means swordsmanship can and does includes powers like invincible speed, super strength, haki, DF and more. That whole skill argument that continues to be used is stupid and dumb.

Let's look at some examples.

Zoro attacking with ACoC haki and CoA.



Zoro releasing a CoC blast.
 
What are you talking about? Everything I talked about has to do with fictional manga. I just called you out on your BS.

In some examples swordmanship is about how well you can swing a sword. Mihawk is not physically stronger than Kaido or Big Mom but he can channel his strength through a sword or weapon better than them. That's why he was able to perform that incredibly powerful and impressive iceberg cutting feat. But as I and others have already explained, swordsmanship isn't just limited to that.

The mistake you are making is, you are denying or limiting Mihawk swordsmanship. Swordmanship can include haki and power.

I already explained it on another thread.
Swordsmanship is not limited to iceberg cut and can include haki, is that your angle? If you wanna point that out, i can also point out that Kaidou acknowledged Roger's haki even more than his swordsmanship. When it does seem like Mihawk fandom trying to monopolize haki by being under being a swordsman, haki can also be used independently regardless of weapon, like CoA or CoC infusion. The basic of haki is energy, said Rayleigh. You can use it to strengthen your sword like Mihawk did and it strengthens your swordsmanship in a fight, or you can release it freely as damage dealer, like Shanks' blue fire in Film Red or Shanks' forcing Greenbull to revert back to human form, without even Shanks needing his own sword except to make a cool pose or something.

My point is just that if someone's haki can be used to attack even without weapon, is stronger than his own swordsmanship, then haki becomes his primary weapon/style/power.

Imo thats the reason Oda said in SBS, "We've known Shanks ever since the very first chapter, but how does he actually fight?" since he intend haki to be versatile and capable of doing its own thing aside from being part of being a swordsman.
 
Haki is under swordsmanship...right.
Haki is under every fighting style.
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Uh so i cant use manga panel since Vista is a forbidden word? Yea 1 Commander needed to match Mihawk until Mihawk ask postponement
What's the big deal? It's a fight where Mihawk held back, and Mihawk asking for postponement is incorrect. He suggested Vista to end the fight.

Even Marco didnt care about Mihawk being a huge threat like Akainu, he deemed Vista enough.
Marco and co. didn't have their hands tied with Akainu, and there were instances of individual commanders going at it with the Admiral.

Jozu in Marineford.
The Vista excuse is one thing, but you're a lost cause if Mihawk's attack getting stopped by a shield made of diamond is some point against him.
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@uyuu

Let me break this down for you.

Roger = Swordsmanship (bolstered by physical strength and Haki)
Luffy = Brawler w/ DF abilities (bolstered by physical strength and Haki)
Kaido = Brawler + Kanabou w/ DF abilities (bolstered by physical strength, Haki, and additional Zoan boost)
Big Mom = Brawler + Swordsmanship w/ DF abilities (bolstered by physical strength and Haki)
Shanks = Swordsmanship (bolstered by physical strength and Haki)
Mihhawk = Swordsmanship (bolstered by physical strength and Haki)
Zoro = Swordsmanship (bolstered by physical strength and Haki)

Outside parentheses = Their actual fighting style
Inside parentheses = Enhancers

Haki isn't important because it's the "#1 fighting style," it's a vital enhancer for everyone who wishes to reach the top tiers. By shutting of Ryokugyu's DF abilities, Shanks didn't get a new fighting style, it's an added bonus of broke CoC, which King Of Hell Zoro proves is STILL part of swordsmanship.
 
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Swordsmanship is not limited to iceberg cut and can include haki, is that your angle? If you wanna point that out, i can also point out that Kaidou acknowledged Roger's haki even more than his swordsmanship. When it does seem like Mihawk fandom trying to monopolize haki by being under being a swordsman, haki can also be used independently regardless of weapon, like CoA or CoC infusion. The basic of haki is energy, said Rayleigh. You can use it to strengthen your sword like Mihawk did and it strengthens your swordsmanship in a fight, or you can release it freely as damage dealer, like Shanks' blue fire in Film Red or Shanks' forcing Greenbull to revert back to human form, without even Shanks needing his own sword except to make a cool pose or something.

My point is just that if someone's haki can be used to attack even without weapon, is stronger than his own swordsmanship, then haki becomes his primary weapon/style/power.

Imo thats the reason Oda said in SBS, "We've known Shanks ever since the very first chapter, but how does he actually fight?" since he intend haki to be versatile and capable of doing its own thing aside from being part of being a swordsman.
You still don't get it, do you? Swordsmanship is not a power. Haki is a power. Haki is the strongest power in the manga. It's the power Zoro and Oden used to scar Kaido. Roger uses a sword and flowed his haki through his sword just like Zoro.

We're not trying to monopolize haki. We understand haki is not limited to swordsmanship and can be used with any fighting style and any weapon. We also understand, unlike you and some others, how important haki is to swordsmanship. A swordman will never become a strong swordsman, swordmaster, or even a great swordmaster if they don't have incredibly powerful haki and aren't able to use it skillfully.

Shanks can flow CoC through his sword to create CoC burst without using it to cut.


Guess what? Zoro can do the same.

Here is Zoro flowing CoC through his sword to create CoC burst without using it to cut.


Even though Shanks attacked GB with a CoC burst it didn't defeat him. That means if Shanks was trying to beat him he still would have needed to do more. That scene isn't helping you especially since it looks like Shanks uses that technique as an intimidation factor and/or to knock DF logia users out of their element form so he can attack them easier with his sword.

Haki enhances attacks so regardless of how strong Shanks haki burst or blast are alone it will always be stronger when used with a sword.

Yes, the famous "Oda doesn't know what type of style Shanks" use argument. He was talking about swordsmanship style. Now we know, he uses a burning sword style. You may not realize this but we don't even know what type of style Mihawk uses. Will it be a black blade style he created? Who knows.
 
It's because the man has an agenda he'd rather die on then take the L.

This chapter alone caused a lot of people to do the same :milaugh:
I wonder if he gets inspired from the King of L's himself; He goes by King of Lightning on yt. Dude is all about his agenda piece; downplay Zoro and Mihawk no matter what they do, and still finds a way to give himself a W. :nicagesmile:
 
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Mr. Tuna Sandwich

SII - Sakazuki Incinerate Imu
- Law/Kid: awaken their devil fruit that is stronger than Luffy's
- Kaido: haki is what prevails at the end of the day
- Luffy: my fruit awakening is not enough, I have to make a giant fist covered with all advanced forms of haki
- People on Worstgen: Mihawk is strongest swordsman so he's stronger than Shanks, even if Shanks has stronger haki

Mfers who say that Mihawk > Shanks can't argue against these 2 assumptions based on their flawed vision of things:
- Vista > Shanks because Mihawk = Vista in terms of swordsmanship
- If you are the strongest devil fruit user, you win against all devil fruit users, even if they have stronger haki
Lol
Still no prove Shanks > Mihawk while there's plenty of proves Mihawk > Shanks
Cope
 
Haki is under every fighting style.
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What's the big deal? It's a fight where Mihawk held back, and Mihawk asking for postponement is incorrect. He suggested Vista to end the fight.



Marco and co. didn't have their hands tied with Akainu, and there were instances of individual commanders going at it with the Admiral.



The Vista excuse is one thing, but you're a lost cause if Mihawk's attack getting stopped by a shield made of diamond is some point against him.
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@uyuu

Let me break this down for you.

Roger = Swordsmanship (bolstered by physical strength and Haki)
Luffy = Brawler w/ DF abilities (bolstered by physical strength and Haki)
Kaido = Brawler + Kanabou w/ DF abilities (bolstered by physical strength, Haki, and additional Zoan boost)
Big Mom = Brawler + Swordsmanship w/ DF abilities (bolstered by physical strength and Haki)
Shanks = Swordsmanship (bolstered by physical strength and Haki)
Mihhawk = Swordsmanship (bolstered by physical strength and Haki)
Zoro = Swordsmanship (bolstered by physical strength and Haki)

Outside parentheses = Their actual fighting style
Inside parentheses = Enhancers

Haki isn't important because it's the "#1 fighting style," it's a vital enhancer for everyone who wishes to reach the top tiers. By shutting of Ryokugyu's DF abilities, Shanks didn't get a new fighting style, it's an added bonus of broke CoC, which King Of Hell Zoro proves is STILL part of swordsmanship.
Obviously all of those feats of Commanders not flinching against him, Vista laughing at him, while Akainu needed Commanders army to try to ow him down, is heavy points against Mihawk. Since you are trying to make Mihawk > Shanks as a guarantee, while Jozu praised Shanks' haki > Jozu ignored Mihawk, Akainu respecting Shanks' haki > Vista fighting Mihawk while laughing, Shanks making Greenbull flee from miles away > Mihawk unable to damage Vista, Jozu and even unable to give noticeable damage to Luffy even after saying he wouldnt hold back.

All of your breakdown about "actual" fighting styles is based on made up rules, while to proof your point Kaidou must have said "Roger's swordsmanship with a bonus of haki" which didnt happen. Instead, Kaidou directly ignore Roger being a swordsman. Vergo emphasize his haki vs Smoker's, and completely ignore their Rokushiki or bamboo vs baton. Luffy vs Kaidou 's CoC infusion zone can cause damage whether you use sword or not, and Shanks' projectile in film Red only displayed even more that his haki attacks are independent from his sword. So no, haki as only enhancers instead of actual lighting style already contradicts what haki can do on its on.
 
Obviously all of those feats of Commanders not flinching against him, Vista laughing at him, while Akainu needed Commanders army to try to ow him down, is heavy points against Mihawk. Since you are trying to make Mihawk > Shanks as a guarantee, while Jozu praised Shanks' haki > Jozu ignored Mihawk, Akainu respecting Shanks' haki > Vista fighting Mihawk while laughing, Shanks making Greenbull flee from miles away > Mihawk unable to damage Vista, Jozu and even unable to give noticeable damage to Luffy even after saying he wouldnt hold back.

All of your breakdown about "actual" fighting styles is based on made up rules, while to proof your point Kaidou must have said "Roger's swordsmanship with a bonus of haki" which didnt happen. Instead, Kaidou directly ignore Roger being a swordsman. Vergo emphasize his haki vs Smoker's, and completely ignore their Rokushiki or bamboo vs baton. Luffy vs Kaidou 's CoC infusion zone can cause damage whether you use sword or not, and Shanks' projectile in film Red only displayed even more that his haki attacks are independent from his sword. So no, haki as only enhancers instead of actual lighting style already contradicts what haki can do on its on.
You doing non cannon attacks from Movies and Anime now


So i guess Zoro the samething huh
 
Obviously all of those feats of Commanders not flinching against him, Vista laughing at him, while Akainu needed Commanders army to try to ow him down, is heavy points against Mihawk. Since you are trying to make Mihawk > Shanks as a guarantee, while Jozu praised Shanks' haki > Jozu ignored Mihawk, Akainu respecting Shanks' haki > Vista fighting Mihawk while laughing, Shanks making Greenbull flee from miles away > Mihawk unable to damage Vista, Jozu and even unable to give noticeable damage to Luffy even after saying he wouldnt hold back.

All of your breakdown about "actual" fighting styles is based on made up rules, while to proof your point Kaidou must have said "Roger's swordsmanship with a bonus of haki" which didnt happen. Instead, Kaidou directly ignore Roger being a swordsman. Vergo emphasize his haki vs Smoker's, and completely ignore their Rokushiki or bamboo vs baton. Luffy vs Kaidou 's CoC infusion zone can cause damage whether you use sword or not, and Shanks' projectile in film Red only displayed even more that his haki attacks are independent from his sword. So no, haki as only enhancers instead of actual lighting style already contradicts what haki can do on its on.
You compare a casual Mihawk to a serious and pissed off Shanks and Akainu and think you have a argument?
:milaugh:


I'm not surprised. I've seen this argument a few times you know. Of course someone mad will use more of their power. It's funny that fans think Shanks is stronger just because he showed off more his power since nobody can force Mihawk to become serious.

Mihawk was holding back against Luffy. What else you call attacking someone with your eyes closed and then bragging about how they are still within your range.

Stop changing the manga to match your headcannon. Kaido wasn't comparing fighting styles or weapons to haki. Instead, he was comparing DF or ability to haki.



Same with Smoker. Why, because haki is a power. While swordsmanship is a fighting style. Haki is designed to enhance your fighting style. If you are a swordsman who uses haki then it will make your swordsmanship stronger.
 
Obviously all of those feats of Commanders not flinching against him, Vista laughing at him, while Akainu needed Commanders army to try to ow him down, is heavy points against Mihawk. Since you are trying to make Mihawk > Shanks as a guarantee, while Jozu praised Shanks' haki > Jozu ignored Mihawk, Akainu respecting Shanks' haki > Vista fighting Mihawk while laughing, Shanks making Greenbull flee from miles away > Mihawk unable to damage Vista, Jozu and even unable to give noticeable damage to Luffy even after saying he wouldnt hold back.
You have some serious mental problems if you're going to repeat debunked talking points.

All of your breakdown about "actual" fighting styles is based on made up rules
It's not made-up rules. It's literally shown in the manga. Luffy fights the same way he did since chapter one even with Haki.

while to proof your point Kaidou must have said "Roger's swordsmanship with a bonus of haki" which didnt happen. Instead, Kaidou directly ignore Roger being a swordsman. Vergo emphasize his haki vs Smoker's, and completely ignore their Rokushiki or bamboo vs baton. Luffy vs Kaidou 's CoC infusion zone can cause damage whether you use sword or not, and Shanks' projectile in film Red only displayed even more that his haki attacks are independent from his sword. So no, haki as only enhancers instead of actual lighting style already contradicts what haki can do on its on.
Again, repeating debunked talking points.
 
You have some serious mental problems if you're going to repeat debunked talking points.



It's not made-up rules. It's literally shown in the manga. Luffy fights the same way he did since chapter one even with Haki.



Again, repeating debunked talking points.
Yeah Luffy is strongest sandalman and Kaidou is kanaboman, your made-up WSS and haki being part of swordsmanship are the ones being debunked by what haki can do alone tho.
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You compare a casual Mihawk to a serious and pissed off Shanks and Akainu and think you have a argument?
:milaugh:


I'm not surprised. I've seen this argument a few times you know. Of course someone mad will use more of their power. It's funny that fans think Shanks is stronger just because he showed off more his power since nobody can force Mihawk to become serious.

Mihawk was holding back against Luffy. What else you call attacking someone with your eyes closed and then bragging about how they are still within your range.

Stop changing the manga to match your headcannon. Kaido wasn't comparing fighting styles or weapons to haki. Instead, he was comparing DF or ability to haki.



Same with Smoker. Why, because haki is a power. While swordsmanship is a fighting style. Haki is designed to enhance your fighting style. If you are a swordsman who uses haki then it will make your swordsmanship stronger.
"Casual Mihawk" against laughing Vista? "Serious pissed off Shanks" lol their expression were the same, they were both serious especially when Mihawk said he wont hold back.

"Kaidou wasnt comparing fighting style or weapons to haki" well that cant be it since many people call themselves and others as DF users meaning DF as a power is applied in the fighting style, haki as a power is applied in the fighting style, and swordsmanship as a power is applied in the fighting style. Moreover when Kaidou didnt even mention swordsmanship and place haki as the winner, it placed swordsmanship even lower.

Haki is power while being a swordsman is a fighting style..thats only true if no one can attack only using haki independently, which Shanks-Kaidou-Luffy proven that haki can be used to attack by its own, not kanabomanship or sandalmanship or swordsmanship.
 
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Yeah Luffy is strongest sandalman and Kaidou is kanaboman, your made-up WSS and haki being part of swordsmanship are the ones being debunked by what haki can do alone tho.
There's no point in continuing with you. You've already lost the argument, and now, you're repeating things (which have been debunked) as if you're an AI Dungeon character.
 
to be honest i don't understand people who are still arguing about Mihawk being stronger than Shanks , in the last chapter Oda went the extra mile to specify where Mihawk is better than Shanks , and stated that Mihawk has greater sword skills. , why would he would he do that if Mihawk is stronger in general. obviously there are another skills where Mihawk lacks.
 
You compare a casual Mihawk to a serious and pissed off Shanks and Akainu and think you have a argument?
:milaugh:


I'm not surprised. I've seen this argument a few times you know. Of course someone mad will use more of their power. It's funny that fans think Shanks is stronger just because he showed off more his power since nobody can force Mihawk to become serious.

Mihawk was holding back against Luffy. What else you call attacking someone with your eyes closed and then bragging about how they are still within your range.

Stop changing the manga to match your headcannon. Kaido wasn't comparing fighting styles or weapons to haki. Instead, he was comparing DF or ability to haki.



Same with Smoker. Why, because haki is a power. While swordsmanship is a fighting style. Haki is designed to enhance your fighting style. If you are a swordsman who uses haki then it will make your swordsmanship stronger.
But Kaido lost due to Nika fruit only.
 
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