@Rarted you're comparing a recent scan to a double-page that released decades ago, if a volume releases they make sure to clean out everything. I'd say Oda is actually very consistent, here's a page of Shanks from chapter 1 and 1055:
Controversial What the hell happened to the art in the manga? (Chapter 1118 and beyond)
- Thread starter Rarted
- Start date
That is his self insert he puts in 110% effort whenever drawing the snitch
Objective parameters:
- The story told by the symbolism
- The story told by the composition
- The story told by the lines
- The story told by the characters and their postures
There is one very good thing about the image you just showed me, its the contrast. The rest is good, but the image of One Piece is narratively more impactfull.
And yet, I couldn't decipher that from the drawing. When someone with no knowledge of One Piece can understand PERFECTLY the conflict and stakes of the One Piece one with just one look.
Again visual storytelling is KEY, its is ESSENTIAL to create stakes and make the reader understand the story without problem.
Drawings must NEVER block the vital line between the story and the comprehension of said story from the readers.
This is indeed a fair critic.
- The story told by the symbolism
- The story told by the composition
- The story told by the lines
- The story told by the characters and their postures
There is one very good thing about the image you just showed me, its the contrast. The rest is good, but the image of One Piece is narratively more impactfull.
And yet, I couldn't decipher that from the drawing. When someone with no knowledge of One Piece can understand PERFECTLY the conflict and stakes of the One Piece one with just one look.
Again visual storytelling is KEY, its is ESSENTIAL to create stakes and make the reader understand the story without problem.
Drawings must NEVER block the vital line between the story and the comprehension of said story from the readers.
This is indeed a fair critic.
I don't think so but I can understand that specific critic.
Also, we must be careful. Because the mandela effect plays a role here. In reality, the "simple" panelling is a criteria of VERY EARLY One Piece.
Oda start to complicate his panelling very fast.
For example, this, is the Paneling leading toward the double page of Bonney's transformation:
And THIS:
Is the panelling that lead toward One Piece Iconic "I want to live" scene:
BOTH are created under the same narrative rules : A rise of pression through the quick panelling and both deliver a big revelation or development.
As you can see, the dense panelling of Oda is not something new. In reality, you can find it all over the manga.
The ONLY DIFFERENCE, is that Oda does not seem to have the same luxury when it come to create breathfull double pages.
Those double pages are what really made early One Piece so iconic artistically. And Oda does not let himself drew them plainly.
This is the one critic that I can make to his art.
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Also, we must be careful. Because the mandela effect plays a role here. In reality, the "simple" panelling is a criteria of VERY EARLY One Piece.
Oda start to complicate his panelling very fast.
For example, this, is the Paneling leading toward the double page of Bonney's transformation:
And THIS:
Is the panelling that lead toward One Piece Iconic "I want to live" scene:
BOTH are created under the same narrative rules : A rise of pression through the quick panelling and both deliver a big revelation or development.
As you can see, the dense panelling of Oda is not something new. In reality, you can find it all over the manga.
The ONLY DIFFERENCE, is that Oda does not seem to have the same luxury when it come to create breathfull double pages.
Those double pages are what really made early One Piece so iconic artistically. And Oda does not let himself drew them plainly.
This is the one critic that I can make to his art.
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You can’t decipher any story from just the drawings lol. Without knowledge of OP, all I see is samurai standing against a dragon. I don’t know who I’m supposed to be rooting for or what any of the stakes are without reading the actual manga.
That didn’t happen in Berserk, nobody who read the manga was confused
Meanwhile in OP many fans were left confused as to how they were supposed to feel about the samurai. Oda clearly wanted fans to love them but many felt as though the scabbards were poorly or nonexistent written emotional bait that failed to hit the mark, taking up panel time that should’ve belonged to the straw hats or the other pirate crews.
That didn’t happen in Berserk, nobody who read the manga was confused
Meanwhile in OP many fans were left confused as to how they were supposed to feel about the samurai. Oda clearly wanted fans to love them but many felt as though the scabbards were poorly or nonexistent written emotional bait that failed to hit the mark, taking up panel time that should’ve belonged to the straw hats or the other pirate crews.
Art is fine.
I don’t see much problem with it.
Paneling is problem.
I don't know why Oda make it so complex now
When he keeps it simple, it looks good
Its like Oda thinks that his audience now won't know if something is really epic unless the side characters are there to tell us its epic, because in reality having Vegapunk say "mo-" isn't really as impacting as he thinks it is.
Its not about deciphering the entire story, its about understanding what the story doesn't tell you or what the author wants to communicate.
But technically, yes, it is possible to understand a story with just drawings.
You maybe not, but I can assure you 100 % that if we were to create a big poll with non One Piece fans, you would see that with only this Panel, most people are able to decipher a few very important key elements central to this arc:
- Who is the bad guy in the story and who is the hero
- What is the degree of resolve of the samourai
- What type of arc this is (the ambiance, the themes, the symbolism)
- What would be the big messages and symbolism through the arc (at least with those characters)
- What type of story this Manga is coming from (serious ? Comical ? Adventurous ? Bloody ? Epic ?)
- The localization and environment of the scene
- What will happen after this scene
Again, all of this (and I'm sure, a few more informations I've not thought about) with only one panel:
That's the power of visual storytelling.
I'm not saying that Berserk is bad at it. In fact its very good, but One Piece largely rival this manga and sometimes even go beyond.
But technically, yes, it is possible to understand a story with just drawings.
You maybe not, but I can assure you 100 % that if we were to create a big poll with non One Piece fans, you would see that with only this Panel, most people are able to decipher a few very important key elements central to this arc:
- Who is the bad guy in the story and who is the hero
- What is the degree of resolve of the samourai
- What type of arc this is (the ambiance, the themes, the symbolism)
- What would be the big messages and symbolism through the arc (at least with those characters)
- What type of story this Manga is coming from (serious ? Comical ? Adventurous ? Bloody ? Epic ?)
- The localization and environment of the scene
- What will happen after this scene
Again, all of this (and I'm sure, a few more informations I've not thought about) with only one panel:
That's the power of visual storytelling.
I'm not saying that Berserk is bad at it. In fact its very good, but One Piece largely rival this manga and sometimes even go beyond.
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Are you sure this applies to One Piece lmfao? Many fans regard Wano as being tonally incoherent, it’s unclear to a lot of people if Oda was trying to write a huge serious battle or a Tom and Jerry level gag fest.
One Punch Man for example is a manga where the fact that the story is a parody is 100% clear. Berserk is a very dark and serious manga. These manga don’t have tonal issues that disconnect the audience.
Yet One Piece’s sales have declined during Wano, many fans regard Wano as either being a bad story arc or the worst in the series outright. I think you’re just talking out of your ass lol, using buzzwords without being able to explain specifically why any of what you’re saying applies to Mid Piss.
Yeah, you sure you’re talking about One Piece??? Lmfao
Like I said many fans still can’t tell whether Wano is supposed to be a serious arc or a parody/comedy arc.
Yeah, I don’t think you’re talking about One Piece lol. Oda’s art fails to convey whether his series is supposed to be a comedy or is a more serious adventure manga.
This is a manga where the ruling authoritarian world government participates in slave genocide while the main character is a walking low tier gag machine.
Literally the fanbase did not agree on how the samurai vs Kaido plot would end lmfao. Oda’s obsession with being unpredictable keeps his fanbase from understanding these things on an objective level, because Oda is a troll who writes shit tier troll plots into his series for the sole sake of catching people off guard.
Yeah, Berserk takes a steamy gorilla shit on everything Oda has ever drawn. One Piece is a generic Shonen with a pirate paint job, Berserk is one of the most one-of-a-kind manga of all time.
One Punch Man for example is a manga where the fact that the story is a parody is 100% clear. Berserk is a very dark and serious manga. These manga don’t have tonal issues that disconnect the audience.
Yet One Piece’s sales have declined during Wano, many fans regard Wano as either being a bad story arc or the worst in the series outright. I think you’re just talking out of your ass lol, using buzzwords without being able to explain specifically why any of what you’re saying applies to Mid Piss.
Yeah, you sure you’re talking about One Piece??? Lmfao
Like I said many fans still can’t tell whether Wano is supposed to be a serious arc or a parody/comedy arc.
Yeah, I don’t think you’re talking about One Piece lol. Oda’s art fails to convey whether his series is supposed to be a comedy or is a more serious adventure manga.
This is a manga where the ruling authoritarian world government participates in slave genocide while the main character is a walking low tier gag machine.
Literally the fanbase did not agree on how the samurai vs Kaido plot would end lmfao. Oda’s obsession with being unpredictable keeps his fanbase from understanding these things on an objective level, because Oda is a troll who writes shit tier troll plots into his series for the sole sake of catching people off guard.
Yeah, Berserk takes a steamy gorilla shit on everything Oda has ever drawn. One Piece is a generic Shonen with a pirate paint job, Berserk is one of the most one-of-a-kind manga of all time.
To be honest, without context I would personally assume the dragon character was a good guy, potentially the protagonist, that dramatically revealed himself for some noble reason and the swordsmen characters were a group of mid tier mooks that pissed him off after they beat up some villagers or some other generically bad guy thing to do. I would assume that the moon giving the dragon a halo of light surrounding his head to be symbolic of the dragon character being a good guy and/or a divine being.
With context, I would regard the symbolism of Kaido's head over the moon, the moon being a symbol of the Kozuki Clan, is likely meant to symbolise Kaido's usurpation of Wano and the swordsmen characters are there to take Wano back.
Aye, stories aren't meant to be read without context. Lol.
With context, I would regard the symbolism of Kaido's head over the moon, the moon being a symbol of the Kozuki Clan, is likely meant to symbolise Kaido's usurpation of Wano and the swordsmen characters are there to take Wano back.
Aye, stories aren't meant to be read without context. Lol.
I just find the idea that “you can tell exactly what Oda wants you to feel from each scene through the art alone” fucking hilarious lmfao. For me there has always been a huge disconnect between Oda’s art and what he actually intends for his audience to be feeling, if Oda intends for his audience to be feeling anything at all. Sometimes I look at Twika laughing despite nothing funny happening, or him laughing with a borderline angry expression on his face, and I wonder if I’m genuinely supposed to hate this character or if he’s actually a villain. But no, Oda wants me to look at Nika’s malicious laughter at nothing in particular and think “this guy is going to save the world,” I guess lol.
I mean literally there is no link between Oda’s mid-ass art and the tone of his series at all imo.
I mean literally there is no link between Oda’s mid-ass art and the tone of his series at all imo.
Yes, most fan are completely wrong about Wano (and One Piece). Wano is one of the most thought-out arc of the entire Manga from characterization and characters stories, through the hidden stories, to symbolism and milking or art. Its not perfect, but its a masterfull work of storytelling and a masterfull work of art.
I consider than some arc are better (Water Seven, in a way Marineford and of course Whole Cake) But that's because those arcs are in a completely different league (there is also the nostalgia effect playing).
Wano has nothing to envy to those masterchef kisses. Its simply amazing. And the one telling you this is someone who was refused for the ENTIRE arc his own agenda. I'm looking at Wano with objectivity here I'm not even emphasizing.
Because he did both. Because in One Piece, both are possible.
Yeah. Neither does One Piece.
The comical aspect of One Piece was acted since the moment Luffy attacked Mini Buggy with a Gomu Gomu no Bazooka and was reaffirmed against each and everyone of his ennemies.
People who are upset about the so called "change of tonality of One Piece" are people who ignored the core elements of One Piece (that are Freedom and Joy) to focus only on the few moments where Luffy had a serious face.
But ONE OF the messages of One Piece, from the beginning (and it was even literally stated in the Live action) to today is that a serious or a mean face doesn't make you win battle, get friends, or succeed in life. Only freedom, friends, determination and joy will get you that.
Yes, there are some completely disconnected people in the One Piece fandom FROM the source material, but that's not the fault of Oda, that's in part due to the false belief that, in a shonen, a good character is a characterismatic one who never laugh and stays serious in front of danger.
This is a projection you will find mostly in men audiences and is literally something that Oda said "nop" to for his main character.
Aside from that you will also see fans saying that this transformation doesn't make sense or was badly written. Those specific fans are ALSO wrong since the gear 5 transformation is one of the transformations in One Piece that has been the most developped and thought out in its creation and very well planted in the story (and therefore very well written).
Again, Yes, people are disconnected from One Piece, but not because of the confusing ton or genre in One Piece, simply because they are limited by their own preconception of what a good story or a good shonen should be.
One Piece and Wano literally broke a narrative barriere with that transformation. Precisely because it created a situation where our own conception of stories was challenged. This is something that happened VERY rarely in storytelling history.
This is why - when Gear 5 dropped - I said that Oda is making history and why I developped by saying that One Piece would be one day taught in storytelling classes in many domain in the future, from Literature to Cinema or other support that may appear.
Like many Manga. This is is a problem due to the industry, not necessarily with One Piece.
And they are wrong
Think what you want honey, this is not my first rodeo, you are not the first one with a wrong opinion that I encounter.
Again, its both. If you search for either one of those in One Piece (not just in Wano) you are wasting your time as a reader.
Trust me, it does. But hey, lets say you reduce that to simple artist. Any good artist - who doesn't know about One Piece - will tell you that the way Kaido is drawn will give the reader both a comical and a dangerous vibe.
Same things, Oda didn't developped (like I said) this style for nothing. His style has influences. His lines are closes to the style of comic strip, disney and old cartoons.
For exemple, this panel:
is a direct reference to astroboy. Both in the posture of the cahracter or the art style.
Astroboy that is a DIRECT influence of various elements of the Egghead Arc.
You can't beat fascism without the joy of living.
What you don't understand - once again - is that its not Luffy who is playing gags in a world where despotes and genocider are ruling. It Genociders and despotes who are trying to extinguish a world where Luffy wants to laugh.
The seriousness of One Piece is created to make the laugh more impactfull. Not the opposite.
But they all agree that there would be a battle, right ? That's what "predicting what will happen next" through visual storytelling means.
Sure buddy
And you are wondering why I question the reading capacities of posters of this forum ?
Average Worstgen poster : "I don't know this guy, this must be a good guy !"
Again, from a worstgen poster, this sentence is not really surprising
I consider than some arc are better (Water Seven, in a way Marineford and of course Whole Cake) But that's because those arcs are in a completely different league (there is also the nostalgia effect playing).
Wano has nothing to envy to those masterchef kisses. Its simply amazing. And the one telling you this is someone who was refused for the ENTIRE arc his own agenda. I'm looking at Wano with objectivity here I'm not even emphasizing.
Because he did both. Because in One Piece, both are possible.
Yeah. Neither does One Piece.
The comical aspect of One Piece was acted since the moment Luffy attacked Mini Buggy with a Gomu Gomu no Bazooka and was reaffirmed against each and everyone of his ennemies.
People who are upset about the so called "change of tonality of One Piece" are people who ignored the core elements of One Piece (that are Freedom and Joy) to focus only on the few moments where Luffy had a serious face.
But ONE OF the messages of One Piece, from the beginning (and it was even literally stated in the Live action) to today is that a serious or a mean face doesn't make you win battle, get friends, or succeed in life. Only freedom, friends, determination and joy will get you that.
Yes, there are some completely disconnected people in the One Piece fandom FROM the source material, but that's not the fault of Oda, that's in part due to the false belief that, in a shonen, a good character is a characterismatic one who never laugh and stays serious in front of danger.
This is a projection you will find mostly in men audiences and is literally something that Oda said "nop" to for his main character.
Aside from that you will also see fans saying that this transformation doesn't make sense or was badly written. Those specific fans are ALSO wrong since the gear 5 transformation is one of the transformations in One Piece that has been the most developped and thought out in its creation and very well planted in the story (and therefore very well written).
Again, Yes, people are disconnected from One Piece, but not because of the confusing ton or genre in One Piece, simply because they are limited by their own preconception of what a good story or a good shonen should be.
One Piece and Wano literally broke a narrative barriere with that transformation. Precisely because it created a situation where our own conception of stories was challenged. This is something that happened VERY rarely in storytelling history.
This is why - when Gear 5 dropped - I said that Oda is making history and why I developped by saying that One Piece would be one day taught in storytelling classes in many domain in the future, from Literature to Cinema or other support that may appear.
Like many Manga. This is is a problem due to the industry, not necessarily with One Piece.
And they are wrong
Think what you want honey, this is not my first rodeo, you are not the first one with a wrong opinion that I encounter.
Again, its both. If you search for either one of those in One Piece (not just in Wano) you are wasting your time as a reader.
Trust me, it does. But hey, lets say you reduce that to simple artist. Any good artist - who doesn't know about One Piece - will tell you that the way Kaido is drawn will give the reader both a comical and a dangerous vibe.
Same things, Oda didn't developped (like I said) this style for nothing. His style has influences. His lines are closes to the style of comic strip, disney and old cartoons.
For exemple, this panel:
is a direct reference to astroboy. Both in the posture of the cahracter or the art style.
Astroboy that is a DIRECT influence of various elements of the Egghead Arc.
You can't beat fascism without the joy of living.
What you don't understand - once again - is that its not Luffy who is playing gags in a world where despotes and genocider are ruling. It Genociders and despotes who are trying to extinguish a world where Luffy wants to laugh.
The seriousness of One Piece is created to make the laugh more impactfull. Not the opposite.
But they all agree that there would be a battle, right ? That's what "predicting what will happen next" through visual storytelling means.
Sure buddy
And you are wondering why I question the reading capacities of posters of this forum ?
Average Worstgen poster : "I don't know this guy, this must be a good guy !"
Again, from a worstgen poster, this sentence is not really surprising
One PIece is one of if not the MOST readable manga on the planete. You will not make me believe that Oda is not doing a good job at it, its simply wrong. Density doesn't mean that the line of lecture can't be achieved.
EVEN in dense panels, the line of lecture in One Piece is clear:
I'm sorry, but One Piece is unmatched on that parameter.
EVEN in dense panels, the line of lecture in One Piece is clear:
I'm sorry, but One Piece is unmatched on that parameter.
Hint hint: the entire manga has degraded in quality, it’s not just the art
This is the difference in overall quality between pre timeskip and post timeskip in a nutshell:
This is the difference in overall quality between pre timeskip and post timeskip in a nutshell:
Oh yes, Oda the master of schedules and deadlines🤣🤣 
How could I understand my own opinions and feelings without you telling me the truth about them?