General & Others When will ZKKers stop gaslighting and just tell the truth?

Monkey D Theories

Monkey D Theories

‎
#1
#1
This is not a thread about whether or not ZKK will happen, rather I want to address what I believe to be a major dishonesty in regards to the people who propagate ZKK. I think that ever since ZKK was created, there was a serious amount of gaslighting and bad faith arguments surrounding the theory. Apart from a few people who will openly admit that they believe Luffy's victory is fake, most ZKKers hold the paradoxical belief that Luffy will defeat kaido, that kaido will somehow re-awaken, and that zoro will be the one to kill him.

And I think most non-ZKK supporters can see exactly how BS this is. If Luffy didn't put kaido down for good, then his victory isn't real and he didn't defeat kaido. It doesn't matter what the narration box says or how Oda frames it, if Kaido needs to be killed by zoro, then Luffy is essentially in the same position katakuri was in at the end of WCI. At the end of Luffy vs kata, Luffy fell first but the fight was Luffy's victory because he was the last man standing.

How can Luffy simultaneously defeat kaido and zoro kill him at the same time? If Luffy is unable to fight kaido and zoro needs to intervene then by Oda's own portrayal in WCI, it is no victory.
Furthermore, if Kaido gets up in the next two chapters, Luffy's victory would be the exact same as kaido's victory in 1042. Was Kaido's victory then legitimate?
Was Oden's "victory" legitimate when he temporarily knocked kaido unconscious?
Did Lucci defeat Luffy when Luffy was lying on the floor after roku-o-gun?

Either Luffy defeats kaido or zoro does, there is no both.

This brings me to the main point of this thread. Deep down, every ZKK supporter really supports the idea that Luffy fails to defeat kaido and that zoro does it in his place. However because this idea is so radical and nonsensical, they essentially need to gaslight the fanbase into believing that this isn't exactly what the ZKK theory argues.

Since a lot of ZKKers are willing to go down with their theory, I'm inviting you to just tell the truth. Admit it. Admit that you don't want Luffy to defeat kaido.
 
Shishi

Shishi

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#6
#6
Were kaido's 7 previous defeats fake? I'd like to see proof of that being the case before we discuss ZKK. Katakuri got up before luffy after their chapter 895 clash happened, did that change the fact that Luffy won?

Now switch Katakuri with Kaido, is it that unreasonable to think that the strongest zoan on the planet can have a second win after being defeated? I really don't think so.

As for some people saying ZKK ultimately overshadowing luffy's victory, I'm beyond caring about that. Kaido dying bears far more narrative significance than ppl's feelings about the win.
 
Franosuke

Franosuke

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#7
#7
Zoro having to step up and finish Kaido as a consequence of Luffy not caring to make sure the job was finished is pretty much exactly what happened with Zoro vs. Monet

And it's what would happen every time if you remove the plot convenience of the marines happening to be in the right place at the right time to arrest the villain before they have the chance to get back up
 
style

style

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#9
#9
The truth is that Oda declaring Kaido's victory in Ch 1044 added more fuel on what Zoro fans have been saying for this whole time.
Luffy will win his fight against Kaido, but Kaido returning back won't take back anything from Luffy.

He will considered the winner regardless, because Kaido was declared the winner too even if Luffy came back eventually.
But for that specific round Kaido was the winner. In the same way in the last round Luffy was.
 
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Kiddoo

Kiddoo

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#11
#11
I don't think ZKK will happen, my reason is simple: Luffy is the MC. And it's not that Oda doesn't have balls, it's that he just likes to work Luffy anyway. Oda's three favorite pages in the manga are all references to Luffy's awakening. Oda loves Luffy very much, and that love has intensified post TS with Luffy being much more spotlight than the others and even Law himself having more screen time and fights than Zoro. Speaking for myself, Zoro is my favorite character, ZKK would be extremely awesome and I would love to see the reactions of that around the world. I want ZKK to happen, but I have no faith in it.
 
kenedyfake

kenedyfake

‎
#12
#12
Monkey D Theories said:
This is not a thread about whether or not ZKK will happen, rather I want to address what I believe to be a major dishonesty in regards to the people who propagate ZKK. I think that ever since ZKK was created, there was a serious amount of gaslighting and bad faith arguments surrounding the theory. Apart from a few people who will openly admit that they believe Luffy's victory is fake, most ZKKers hold the paradoxical belief that Luffy will defeat kaido, that kaido will somehow re-awaken, and that zoro will be the one to kill him.

And I think most non-ZKK supporters can see exactly how BS this is. If Luffy didn't put kaido down for good, then his victory isn't real and he didn't defeat kaido. It doesn't matter what the narration box says or how Oda frames it, if Kaido needs to be killed by zoro, then Luffy is essentially in the same position katakuri was in at the end of WCI. At the end of Luffy vs kata, Luffy fell first but the fight was Luffy's victory because he was the last man standing.

How can Luffy simultaneously defeat kaido and zoro kill him at the same time? If Luffy is unable to fight kaido and zoro needs to intervene then by Oda's own portrayal in WCI, it is no victory.
Furthermore, if Kaido gets up in the next two chapters, Luffy's victory would be the exact same as kaido's victory in 1042. Was Kaido's victory then legitimate?
Was Oden's "victory" legitimate when he temporarily knocked kaido unconscious?
Did Lucci defeat Luffy when Luffy was lying on the floor after roku-o-gun?

Either Luffy defeats kaido or zoro does, there is no both.

This brings me to the main point of this thread. Deep down, every ZKK supporter really supports the idea that Luffy fails to defeat kaido and that zoro does it in his place. However because this idea is so radical and nonsensical, they essentially need to gaslight the fanbase into believing that this isn't exactly what the ZKK theory argues.

Since a lot of ZKKers are willing to go down with their theory, I'm inviting you to just tell the truth. Admit it. Admit that you don't want Luffy to defeat kaido.
Click to expand...
Summary: At the end of it all they want Zoro with the feat of defeating Kaido and being praised as the strongest
 
Monkey D Theories

Monkey D Theories

‎
#14
#14
Garp the Fist said:
Gin beat Don Krieg and not Luffy
Tashigi beat Monet and not Zoro
Nami beat Absalom and not Sanji

Don’t have much time for this argument. The last 50 chapters of Luffy vs Kaido doesn’t disappear if anyone else (be it Zoro, Blackbeard, the ghost of Oden) kills Kaido.
Click to expand...
Were any of those fights as close as Luffy vs kaido?
To make matters worse, many zkk supporters believe that Zoro will kill kaido because Luffy is incapable of moving/out of energy. In what world is that a win?

Stop lying to yourself
Post automatically merged:

HA001 said:
Cry. Zkk is coming
Click to expand...
I actually respect your take on it. You are one of the few people who will just say that Luffy's win is fake, instead of lying about it.
 
B

Ballel

#15
#15
Monkey D Theories said:
This is not a thread about whether or not ZKK will happen, rather I want to address what I believe to be a major dishonesty in regards to the people who propagate ZKK. I think that ever since ZKK was created, there was a serious amount of gaslighting and bad faith arguments surrounding the theory. Apart from a few people who will openly admit that they believe Luffy's victory is fake, most ZKKers hold the paradoxical belief that Luffy will defeat kaido, that kaido will somehow re-awaken, and that zoro will be the one to kill him.

And I think most non-ZKK supporters can see exactly how BS this is. If Luffy didn't put kaido down for good, then his victory isn't real and he didn't defeat kaido. It doesn't matter what the narration box says or how Oda frames it, if Kaido needs to be killed by zoro, then Luffy is essentially in the same position katakuri was in at the end of WCI. At the end of Luffy vs kata, Luffy fell first but the fight was Luffy's victory because he was the last man standing.

How can Luffy simultaneously defeat kaido and zoro kill him at the same time? If Luffy is unable to fight kaido and zoro needs to intervene then by Oda's own portrayal in WCI, it is no victory.
Furthermore, if Kaido gets up in the next two chapters, Luffy's victory would be the exact same as kaido's victory in 1042. Was Kaido's victory then legitimate?
Was Oden's "victory" legitimate when he temporarily knocked kaido unconscious?
Did Lucci defeat Luffy when Luffy was lying on the floor after roku-o-gun?

Either Luffy defeats kaido or zoro does, there is no both.

This brings me to the main point of this thread. Deep down, every ZKK supporter really supports the idea that Luffy fails to defeat kaido and that zoro does it in his place. However because this idea is so radical and nonsensical, they essentially need to gaslight the fanbase into believing that this isn't exactly what the ZKK theory argues.

Since a lot of ZKKers are willing to go down with their theory, I'm inviting you to just tell the truth. Admit it. Admit that you don't want Luffy to defeat kaido.
Click to expand...
ZKK won't happen.
Oda trolled us all.
 
Franosuke

Franosuke

‎
#18
#18
Albino 👑 said:
People just want zoro to be the hero and main character of wano
By have him recognized as the one to defeat and put down kaido while the whole world watches
Click to expand...
I don't see why Zoro can't be recognized as a secondary savior alongside Luffy.

Unlike Luffy, Zoro is 99% likely to actually be from Wano. He is a samurai. Thematically, doesn't it make sense for Wano to have one of their own to look at as a protective figure, considering Orochi & Kaido have shit on the samurai and called them weaklings since the beginning of the arc?

Thriller Bark is an arc that's heavily tied to Wano:

  • It was the first time that Wano was mentioned & the first time Kaido was foreshadowed as a future villain
  • Like Kaido, Oars was a member of the Oni race
  • We found out about Ryuma for the first time in TB, and that was followed up in Wano
  • Zoro received Shusui in TB, and returned it in Wano
  • The list goes on
At the end of Thriller Bark, Zoro was the unsung hero while Luffy was the primary hero. Wouldn't it be a good full circle if Zoro actually gets acknowledged for his achievements this time, after we discover Zoro's ties to Wano?
 
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