Who is the Number 1 General of Qin right now?

Who is the Number 1 Qin’s General right now?


  • Total voters
    41
#61
It has to be Ousen based on his accomplishments against Zhao. He is winning against the most dangerous man in China, Riboku. Due to Moubu's stupidity, Ouki got killed by Houken-Riboku duo. The Qin army would be dead by now if Moubu was the supreme commander in Zhao invasion.


lol, no. Kanmei is nobody at Chuu
You're totally right but Moubu has matured and the loss of Ouki was kinda required for that too happen.

While Moubu would've had no hope of winning the Zhao campaign likewise wouldn't Ousen or any other Qin general been capable of defeating Kanmei in that exact scenario. Only Moubu could've done that.
 
Last edited:
#62
I think the author gives us wrong beliefs in the word general
Shin or Moubu are more an "unit captain" than a general

SHK, Ten, Ousen or Riboku is what we call a general those who plan everything on the battlefield

Rather than lead one unit out of many hundreds

The point is the focus the author is highlighting Shin or Moubu so it seems for us that they do everything and decide the battle but they are just a tiny distraction in a battle where hundreds of thousands people clash

So we need to differ between an captain that leads an unit and is called "general" but isn't
And a general that plans the battle and has an overview of the field which is in this manga a " great general"

Moubu and Shin are bad great general but they are the best of the best unit captains

Like @MarineHQ62 said the unit captains can slay opponents that Ten or Heki wouldn't be able do

But Ten and Heki are the better great general
 
D

Deleted member 10278

#63
Shin or Moubu are more an "unit captain" than a general
Nah not really. While I think there’s an issue with Shin shining more as a unit captain rather than as a general, that isn’t the case with Moubu. First fight Moubu had puts that to rest, with Moubu effectively getting a group of conscripts to perform better with conserving their energy and conditioning them on the spot to adapt to the fighting. It was a simple strategy but it pretty much separated Moubu from Shin who lets Ten take full command 99.9% of the time.
 
#65
I think the author gives us wrong beliefs in the word general
Shin or Moubu are more an "unit captain" than a general

SHK, Ten, Ousen or Riboku is what we call a general those who plan everything on the battlefield

Rather than lead one unit out of many hundreds

The point is the focus the author is highlighting Shin or Moubu so it seems for us that they do everything and decide the battle but they are just a tiny distraction in a battle where hundreds of thousands people clash

So we need to differ between an captain that leads an unit and is called "general" but isn't
And a general that plans the battle and has an overview of the field which is in this manga a " great general"

Moubu and Shin are bad great general but they are the best of the best unit captains

Like @MarineHQ62 said the unit captains can slay opponents that Ten or Heki wouldn't be able do

But Ten and Heki are the better great general
exactly
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#69
Bringing this here so as to stop polluting the spoiler thread. Lol

I see. I'd personally argue that Riboku and Shouheikun are above Ousen in that regard. Riboku's history is full of impressive feats luring his enemies in the exact location just where he wants them to be and his skill to shut down information is second to none. I think overall he's definitely a superior strategist.
Shouheikun is my favorite Kingdom character but I’d still put his strategic ability just beneath Riboku and Ousen. He’s obviously extremely close to them but I think they deserve the nod.

Before Northern Zhao, I would’ve probably said that Ousen’s strategic ability is above Riboku but the Godboku’s defense of northern Zhao has been awesome imo. Diverting the Qin away from Kantan, defeating the Qin reinforcement army, stalling Ousen at Atsuyo and finally putting Kanki in a death-scenario.

Ousen especially impressed me with how he handled Riboku's centre army. Unfortunately we didn't get much more because both Riboku and Ousen stressed how the fate of the battle lies in the hands of the right wings battle outcome.
I think it was impressive but I also think Ousen’s ability to deconstruct tactics like that would be completely irrelevant against Moubu. Lol

I have a general problem with the tactics are useless against Moubu thing. This sounds far too crazy. This would basically mean any struggle against Moubu is pointless because he can always overcome them with sheer might.
The problem is that this statement was made by Shouheikun himself, who knows every tactic in the book. Even if Shells and Joints is something Ousen invented, the fact that Riboku was able to decipher its weaknesses to me is a clear indication that this tactic would at best only stall Great General level characters but would still ultimately lose to them. Such as Moubu. Lol

Riboku said that Houken would've died if he didn't choose to retreat against YTW.
Stat wise Houken is even stronger than Moubu.
1. Houken had a broken arm from Duke Hyou against Yotanwa lol
2. Moubu’s most recent strength stat is 100, putting him equal to Houken as far as strength stats go.

- Akou's army stops three armies let by GG calibre guys.
- Makou's army is even stronger than Akou's in canon iirc.

Don't forget all this was done with the soldiers running out of food and energy.
These armies accomplished this because of their tactics, not because of the individual strength of their soldiers.

Going by Tou's words. He very well could've implied that up until the coalition Tou>Moubu but as i said before these statements are very vague.
Tou could be the strongest in Qin right now, we just don’t know. Lol

But I still think Moubu is the safe bet.
 
Last edited:
#70
The strongest army is a toss-up between Ousen and Yotanwa. Yotanwa surely has the stronger generals and her leadership is that equal to Sei. With her joining the fray i have them beating the Ousen and Moubu army for sure.

The Tou army is clearly the weakest overall.

If we're talking about the Qin6 individually I'd say Tou is the strongest. He's the most complete general of Qin rn with no weakness as far as we know.
Yotanwa's army is bonkers.

For the the best individually, I put Ousen at #1 but I'm giving Tou the second place for sure. Excellent eye for strategy, no weaknesses to be exploited, can also inspire his men and lead from the front with his might. It'd be extremely hard to get a W over Tou.
 
#71
The Tou army is clearly the weakest overall.
"Clearly" seems like a pretty big reach to me, we hardly have any idea about Tou army's prowess right now. Considering SHK and co switched heavily in terms of upgrading military after Ryofui's fall. It's been 6 years (in-verse time) since Tou army was last fully showcased, and that was directly after the Coalition war where he lost two of his commanders. The likelihood of him not heavily upgrading his army, is very low.

In terms of portrayal, the manga has been very consistent:
Moubu > the old Qin 6
Maybe Oukutsu and Kyou. But none of the other 4. Most def. not Hakuki/Ouki/Koushou, with the other guy being a complete mystery who nobody's ever been compared to and neither has his prowess been stated.

Only thing that's ever been implied about his portrayal in comparison to them is he's on their level and above Oukutsu when it comes to Martial Might. That's about it.

Ousen was directly portrayed superior to YTW and Kanki while he was appointed commander in chief of the army.
Kanki, yes.
YTW, no.

Ousen since his intro has been established as Kanki's superior, so there's no discussion on that. However, with YTW it's a different story.

Ousen - is more familiar with the plains for decades since the previous Qin 6 era.
YTW - has spent but a few years in the plains and has fought all her life in the Mountains warfare, and then only like 2 years or so taking over just castles in the plains. Would be completely Ludacris to put her in charge.

This becomes more about the location for YTW rather than her capabilities. Since you wouldn't pick Ousen to lead a war in the mountains over YTW.

To make a big and long war : you pick up Ousen to lead.
If you mean in a campaign, then for sure you gotta go with him. But the tools he has to utilize play a big role in that. If you mean a long war that takes place in a small region or even just face to face like the Coalition battles, then that's debatable.

Ousen also has ever had the biggest hype by being compared to greatest of Qin 6
He got compared to Ouki?
 
#73
Clearly" seems like a pretty big reach to me, we hardly have any idea about Tou army's prowess right now. Considering SHK and co switched heavily in terms of upgrading military after Ryofui's fall. It's been 6 years (in-verse time) since Tou army was last fully showcased, and that was directly after the Coalition war where he lost two of his commanders. The likelihood of him not heavily upgrading his army, is very low.
I disagree. I think the Ouki/Tou army's commanders have never been outstanding considering the competition it has not only inside Qin but also other states. For the record I'm a big fan of the Tou army and Tou in general.

- Rokuoumi the strongest commander who is decently strong and can stall enemies of the likes of Rinbunkun or Sento'Un.
- Ryuukoku. Mainly a strategist who hasn't shown any exceptional skills. He's decent but not special. Definitely inferior to someone like Denrimi imo.
- Kanou no slouch either but far from being anything special.

Ouki and Tou two Top Top tier generals are always what made the Ouki army so terrifying

Rinbou and Doukin were one shot each which really didn't make them look too hot tbh.

I don't think they'll be receiving any new commanders. Their army is already very fleshed out and in future arcs the independent units will just join them.
 
#74
I disagree. I think the Ouki/Tou army's commanders have never been outstanding considering the competition it has not only inside Qin but also other states. For the record I'm a big fan of the Tou army and Tou in general.

- Rokuoumi the strongest commander who is decently strong and can stall enemies of the likes of Rinbunkun or Sento'Un.
- Ryuukoku. Mainly a strategist who hasn't shown any exceptional skills. He's decent but not special. Definitely inferior to someone like Denrimi imo.
- Kanou no slouch either but far from being anything special.

Ouki and Tou two Top Top tier generals are always what made the Ouki army so terrifying

Rinbou and Doukin were one shot each which really didn't make them look too hot tbh.

I don't think they'll be receiving any new commanders. Their army is already very fleshed out and in future arcs the independent units will just join them.
I get where you are coming from. But I don't believe you're looking at it the right way, and essentially comparing apples to oranges by comparing Tou army you saw from fire dragons arc to Ouki army at bayou.

Ouki Army:

The Bayou arc Ouki army is not peak Ouki army. It's not even the army that he climbed up to Qin 6 level with and waged epic grandscale wars with. This is evident based on the experience gap between Ouki & his generals at Bayou. Ouki stood at near the border of S-SS experience rank, contrast to his 5 army commanders who stood at B-rank. For comparison, Shin's commanders outside of Kyoukai are at Rank B, while Shin is at Rank A (he just got there). Same with Mouten - Riku sen & Ai sen, and Ouhon - his commanders.

Furthermore, Tou is not as renowned as the Heavenly Kings. The CiC of Zhao at Bayou had no idea about Tou's capabilities. Rather Tou is portrayed as Ouki's "hidden beast". Something that would not be the case if he was the 4 Heavenly Kings equivalent for Ouki.


Furthermore, when we look at the Kyou flashback and the Ouki army, none of these dudes are anywhere to be found, rather a completely different group of intimidating people is highlighted, this is when Ouki already was a Qin 6 member already. Tou either was a rising member at this time or had joined later on after Kyou left. I'd reckon he was a rising member, which goes inline with the statement Tou being with the Ouki army before the army commanders.



Now we get the Rinshoujou flashback with Ouki. The Flashback likely happened close to Ouki's retirement after he had gotten a new set of commanders in the ones he had at Bayou.


But yea Tou-Ouki aren't what made the Ouki army scary. In fact we have 0 idea about the Ouki army at his peak and what capabilities it had when he was reigning terror as the monsterous bird of Qin. Tou at that time was just rising member in the army, hence a top general of Zhao with all the collected info on Ouki had no clue about Tou, while these 5 army commanders weren't even in it at that time most likely.


Tou Army:

Going by what you're saying, Tou army isn't even as strong as the non-peak Ouki army from Bayou. This generation is going to be surpassing the Ouki generation. Tou is gonna be surpassing Ouki as a general (dude had S-rank experience since post-Coalition, which is only gaining more and more). The likelihood his army is not even as strong as a non-peak Ouki army is just not realistic.

It's been 6 years since we saw the Tou army, which was about a year after the coalition war. You don't think he filled the spots of the 2 dead commanders in that time? You don't believe he recruited stronger underlings or raised em? Keeping in mind Moubu army had dudes like Ai-sen... You don't believe Tou will have such individuals, despite being the one to focus the most on the raising Qin's military prowess out of all the generals as he was aiming for Unification since Ouki's death? Keep in mind the full-military dedication mandate from the Qin government also happened after the wei fire dragon arc.


That's why I said we have no idea about the strength of Tou army. Especially knowing Tou's character, there is no way he didn't recruit more commanders and strong combatants into his army. Which he'd need to if he's gonna be matching Bayou arc Ouki Army... let alone the army when Ouki reigned as the Monsterous Bird of Qin.
 
Top