Why are some Americans insecure and whiny?

[Ultra]

The main problem with the 'Muricans in this matter is the that they dont realize the huge amount of governament propaganda they are exposed since they are born.


Seriously, I like my country, but i understand that all this bullshit of "my country in the best, i love my country, i would die for my country" is just nationalist propaganda to make easier for the guys controling the country to use me. And i think most of the people around the world get that.

But the Muricans belive in state propaganda in a quasi religious way, sometimes they dont seem that different from North Koreans who are brainwashed to see Kim family and the state as god-like things.

I feel like this describes a certain subset of people but doesn't mesh with my overall experience interacting with people both left and right - both of whom express more and more dissatisfaction or outright hatred for this country. At least how things are now. And the justifications are expressed along completely different lines.

But I can only think of a handful of people I know who fit the bill of stereotypical flag saluting American. As for the rest, nobody is better on hating Americans than Americans. Bar none.

 

[BangOO🍅]

Worstgen Bruh moment

 

[Ballel]

Worstgen Bruh moment

This is a politics thread Bango.
Your small Fraud Tomato Provider brain can't process this.
Go back to the waiting room or to stealthblack's latest thread.

 

[Ultra]

I do not understand why republicans are so afraid of education. The party has basically become anti-education at this point. The whole "public schools are grooming children and indoctrinating them" point is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.

There seems to be some cognitive dissonance going on here, you seem to think that the perception that public education is instilling certain ideas in children is "dumb", but I'm more than willing to bet the ideas said conservatives are anxious about you would consider good and worthy of being taught to children e.g LGBT Rights, Critical Race Theory, so on and so forth. Would you call a parent dumb if they sent their children off to the middle of the bible belt and worried they might be taught creationism? In both cases the concern is rational.

I feel like a lot of your takes in this thread are like this where you're seething so much over conservatives you fail in making a coherent point.

The implication in general that public education tries to push propoganda and political agendas to children should not at all be controversial to anyone.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Would you call a parent dumb if they sent their children off to the middle of the bible belt and worried they might be taught creationism? In both cases the concern is rational.

no it isn’t

critical race theory isn’t being taught in public schools and schools aren’t trying to groom kids into becoming gay. These are literally conspiracy theories.

 

[Ultra]

no it isn’t

Critical race theory isn’t being taught in public schools.

You say this with confidence? As if it's universally true everywhere in the U.S.? Would be fairly easy to show this is demonstrably incorrect. But aside from that, if it were taught, would you take issue with that?

and schools aren’t trying to groom kids into becoming gay.

Let's forget about trying to assign malicious intent here and just take a look at tangible impact, if you know anyone who works in child education, they'll tell you that a lot more kids nowadays have nonconforming gender identities.

Take a look at the article below and the following graphs. This is from the UK, of course, but similar patterns are arising in many western countries and the U.S. is not excluded.

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/...er-skyrocketing-diagnoses-of-gender-dysphoria

Spoiler

That's about a 10x increase in incidence over the course of 10 years. Many of these referrals come from teachers. And how are kids even made aware that their gender identity is a thing and to question it in the first place...

---

Your question you started the thread with seems entirely rhetorical. But if you genuinely care to try to understand opposing perspectives, the very least you can do is acknowledge that an ideological tug-of-war actually exists instead of acting like conservatives are just schizophrenics. The whole "these things aren't happening in public education, but if they are it's a good thing!" is cowardly and dishonest. Own up to your principles.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Let's forget about trying to assign malicious intent here and just take a look at tangible impact, if you know anyone who works in child education, they'll tell you that a lot more kids nowadays have nonconforming gender identities.

Take a look at the article below and the following graphs. This is from the UK, of course, but similar patterns are arising in many western countries and the U.S. is not excluded.

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/...er-skyrocketing-diagnoses-of-gender-dysphoria

Spoiler

That's about a 10x increase in incidence over the course of 10 years. Many of these referrals come from teachers. And how are kids even made aware that their gender identity is a thing and to question it in the first place...

People have been expressing their gender identity in unique ways since the dawn of man. I'm reading mahabharata at the moment and its surprising the amount of trans characters there are in this story.

In the past, being gay or trans was heavily stigmatized and as a result, many people were too afraid to be themselves. Now, since times have changed and people are more accepting, more people are coming out as lgbt.

Your question you started the thread with seems entirely rhetorical. But if you genuinely care to try to understand opposing perspectives, the very least you can do is acknowledge that an ideological tug-of-war actually exists instead of acting like conservatives are just schizophrenics.

They fucking are schizophrenics. Mainstream conservative leaders have supported: Qanon, the great replacement theory, election fraud conspiracies. Just because they have an opposing view doesn't mean its legitimate.

The whole "these things aren't happening in public education, but if they are it's a good thing!" is cowardly and dishonest. Own up to your principles.

Critical race theory is a theory taught in higher education. Right wing propagandists have deliberately tried to use critical race theory as a catch-all for any sort of discussion of race done in classrooms or the workplace in order to frame it as a threat to white people.

CRT objectively isn't being taught in public schools, but even if it were being taught in public schools, pretending that CRT or LGBT topics are some form of indoctrination is literal nonsense fearmongering.
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All that these things say are that racism exists and has impacts on current society in many ways or that there are many different forms of sexuality and gender expression apart from being straight and cis.

The right wing media both frames the teaching of such ideas as somehow nefarious and then greatly exaggerates the degree to which these things are being taught.

The idea that there is some sort of shadowy evil force nefariously trying to destroy american culture through the education system is the very definition of schizophrenic bullshit. In fact this is basically what every antisemetic conspiracy theory suggests.

 

[Ultra]

People have been expressing their gender identity in unique ways since the dawn of man. I'm reading mahabharata at the moment and its surprising the amount of trans characters there are in this story.

In the past, being gay or trans was heavily stigmatized and as a result, many people were too afraid to be themselves. Now, since times have changed and people are more accepting, more people are coming out as lgbt.

But clinical transgenderism has only been a thing in recent history. It isn't just a matter of social acceptance (not to say that's not a component, by any means), it's a matter of physical and mental well being. The propagation of trans positive ideas causes far far more children to transition on an object level, and the process of transition with our current technology is harmful.

I don't think teachers are necessarily malicious, the vast majority are well meaning, but the vast majority are also very liberal and don't really think twice about the external consequences of pushing kids to question their gender identities as young as four and supporting pre pubescent transitioning. It has serious consequences. Which brings me back to my central point of you deriding this strawman of conservative perceptions of a public schooling environment having no basis in reality. It's just fundamentally dishonest.
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Critical race theory is a theory taught in higher education. Right wing propagandists have deliberately tried to use critical race theory as a catch-all for any sort of discussion of race done in classrooms or the workplace in order to frame it as a threat to white people.

CRT objectively isn't being taught in public schools, but even if it were being taught in public schools, pretending that CRT or LGBT topics are some form of indoctrination is literal nonsense fearmongering.
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All that these things say are that racism exists and has impacts on current society in many ways or that there are many different forms of sexuality and gender expression apart from being straight and cis.

The right wing media both frames the teaching of such ideas as somehow nefarious and then greatly exaggerates the degree to which these things are being taught.

The idea that there is some sort of shadowy evil force nefariously trying to destroy american culture through the education system is the very definition of schizophrenic bullshit. In fact this is basically what every antisemetic conspiracy theory suggests.

So, I know of at least one example of CRT being in public school cirrucula because it happened in my city lol

https://www.city-journal.org/buffal...cal-race-theory-curriculum?wallit_nosession=1

The curricula was actually on the city school website but it had gotten taken down in its entirely, so you're just going to have to take this second hand account as fact, it's a pretty accurate description based upon what I've seen myself.

But, once again, there's an inherent disconnect in your points. You fervently suggests these things aren't being taught in schools and people are psychos for even imagining they are. But if they were, you say it's perfectly well and fine...*this* is actually the schizophrenic position, because you seem to be suggesting that the overwhelmingly liberal teachers who draft and teach the curricula and are sympathetic to such ideas have no intention whatsoever of distributing them. Preposterous.

And the only one bringing up a "shadowy evil force" here is you, that assumption is not required whatsoever. It's not a massive leap in logic that overwhelmingly left leaning educators impart a left leaning bias on their students...that's really a rather basic consequence, and as I tried to illustrate before, that works both ways.

Transparently, you're speaking to someone who never intends on sending their kids to public school. And the politics pushed on schoolchildren is not even close to the primary motivator there, but it definitely exists, and it's not like it exists in isolation. It's really just a reflection of current social norms at many of our institutions - universities, companies, government, etc. all peddle similar ideas and attitudes.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

But clinical transgenderism has only been a thing in recent history. It isn't just a matter of social acceptance (not to say that's not a component, by any means), it's a matter of physical and mental well being. The propagation of trans positive ideas causes far far more children to transition on an object level, and the process of transition with our current technology is harmful.

Can you please explain to me how the fuck you can give someone gender dysphoria by simply exposing them to "trans positive ideas" aka simply educating them on the existence of trans people and normalizing the existence of trans people?

Do you think people develop gender dyphoria on whims? And if so, why on earth would anyone choose to be transgender when even in this day and age, trans people are still subjected to a signfiicant amount of discrimination.

 

[Ultra]

Can you please explain to me how the fuck you can give someone gender dysphoria by simply exposing them to "trans positive ideas" aka simply educating them on the existence of trans people and normalizing the existence of trans people?

Do you think people develop gender dyphoria on whims? And if so, why on earth would anyone choose to be transgender when even in this day and age, trans people are still subjected to a signfiicant amount of discrimination.

I already gave you an article and some data. It really isn't hard to see how a child can have gender identity issues if certain propaganda is pushed on them aggressively and in a positive light, before they're even old enough to properly contextualize it.

But again, even if you think gender dysphoria is an innate thing and can't be learned or whatever, the reality of the situation is compared to 10 years ago 10x the amount of children are seeking to transition, that's a ton. So we could go back and forth but the realized consequence is that yes, there is a higher prevalence and you can't unpair that from the "normalization" of it. It's obviously linked.

 

[Ravagerblade]

no it isn’t

critical race theory isn’t being taught in public schools and schools aren’t trying to groom kids into becoming gay. These are literally conspiracy theories.

 

[Ballel]

the great replacement theory

sorry, I had to giggle at this. White people in America talking about a replacement of their race is too funny.

 

[Ravagerblade]

The kids are being indoctrinated, it may not be everywhere but it's in many places. Stop the Cope, Evil is happening and you give no fucks. You are the problem.

 

[Ballel]

That's about a 10x increase in incidence over the course of 10 years. Many of these referrals come from teachers. And how are kids even made aware that their gender identity is a thing and to question it in the first place...

How kids are made aware of gender identity you ask!?
Because gender is everywhere.
Gender based clothing,gender based toys, the way genders are treated by society and the stereotypical expectations considering behaviour. All these are real factors that any child can become aware of, regardless of others teaching them about it or not.

But again, even if you think gender dysphoria is an innate thing and can't be learned or whatever, the reality of the situation is compared to 10 years ago 10x the amount of children are seeking to transition, t

It IS an innate thing.
And I know from personal experience.
You are basically pushing the idea of leaving children in the dark about the very existence of gender identity.

and the process of transition with our current technology is harmful.

I somewhat agree to this.
The LGBT/trans supporting part of society should be more inclusive in regard to non-passing trans individuals who do NOT desire to make this physical transition via surgery and hormone treatment.

People have been expressing their gender identity in unique ways since the dawn of man. I'm reading mahabharata at the moment and its surprising the amount of trans characters there are in this story.

💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
It's funny to me when self-proclaimed "Conservatives" credit traditional values as the source of their preference and ideology.
When the general "conservative" outlook has nothing to do with preserving old ideas. Transsexuality has been prevalent in ancient civilizations and them painting it as some modern craze of "tradition-hating" progressives is simply dishonest.

In the past, being gay or trans was heavily stigmatized and as a result, many people were too afraid to be themselves. Now, since times have changed and people are more accepting, more people are coming out as lgbt.

💯💯💯💯💯💯💯

 

[BleakAsh]

You need to be privileged to accept trans people?

you don't need to be privileged to determine whether something is a grand fu*k up societally or not.

 

[Roo]

Nah I get conservatives when it comes to the gender stuff in classrooms. There are legit deranged teachers who teach stuff like “paint your gender” or “go into this closet and come out with your real gender”

and this is pre teen kids. I get a lot of trans people feel like they knew their true gender since birth, but imo those are Conversations that need to be between the parents and doctors.

those conversations in schools can held off until kids get to sexual ed age, which in most districts is middle school and up

 

[BleakAsh]

Can you please explain to me how the fuck you can give someone gender dysphoria by simply exposing them to "trans positive ideas" aka simply educating them on the existence of trans people and normalizing the existence of trans people?

Do you think people develop gender dyphoria on whims? And if so, why on earth would anyone choose to be transgender when even in this day and age, trans people are still subjected to a signfiicant amount of discrimination.

it entails many factors including societal, self-esteem and self-appreciation to even societal standards.. environment plays a huge factor..exposing such people to trans positivity would obviously drive them to become one as its propagated as a just and moral thing and as a pragmatic alternative.. basically telling people to change and not improve fundamentally.. which itself doesn't seem to be pragmatic



no one just up and become who they want its a steady and gradual process.. but ultimate not based reason but just plain desires

Nah I get conservatives when it comes to the gender stuff in classrooms. There are legit deranged teachers who teach stuff like “paint your gender” or “go into this closet and come out with your real gender”

and this is pre teen kids. I get a lot of trans people feel like they knew their true gender since birth, but imo those are Conversations that need to be between the parents and doctors.

those conversations in schools can held off until kids get to sexual ed age, which in most districts is middle school and up

Man there was a case in Canda recently where they told kindergarten kids to draw their sexual parts that they want to touch often.

 

[Ballel]

Whoa this is over the top and unnecessary.
Teaching kids that there are different genders/sexualities is enough.
Forcing them to come out in front of class before their full sexual development is straight up harmful.

There are legit deranged teachers who teach stuff like “paint your gender” or “go into this closet and come out with your real gender”

 

[BleakAsh]

Whoa this is over the top and unnecessary.
Teaching kids that there are different genders/sexualities is enough.
Forcing them to come out in front of class before their full sexual development is straight up harmful.

another problem with our education system is as much as they emphasize on individuality they make cohesiveness as a family feel redundant its only "YOU MATTER MORE" kinda now

even tho i disagree with sexuality education.. i don't think the cause for such complexities is being tended to properly at a fundamental level like Roo said

there is much more to this topic its a byproduct of how parents constitute the society atm

Children left to their devices

Lack of education about self and family at the beginning..

it all leads to the problems now we have today

ofc some just follow this movement as just another trend since its convenient.. but on a serious note.. its real fundamental problem.

 

[Ballel]

basically telling people to change and not improve fundamentally..

Sorry, I can't really follow you here.

even tho i disagree with sexuality education..

But why? Are you aware of what happens when kids are being left in the dark about sexuality? Do you want young teens to go through puberty all on their own, without knoing what is even happening to their bodies?
Do you want teen pregnancies because those kids won't know how to get pregnant and how to avoid it!?