Powers & Abilities Why the black blade puts Mihawk and Ryuma above Oden by default

[comrade]

But the question of ROGER can be called variations in the style and form of sword fighting.
Normal.Your own way to use is your style. Your own way of using a sword.

My take on this is, even though Roger is a swordsman, he uses the sword more as a weapon of choice but without really being a swordsmaster. Coating your sword with Haki to clash with a Haki barrier isn't a swordstyle. You can replicate this move with any weapon. Just like the ability he used against Oden wasn't really a swordspecific move, as Oden wasn't even cut.

But there is something like "the way of the sword" which Zoro asked Mihawk to teach him. Mihawk said, "a sword without grace is but an iron bar" and this I think is what distinguishes swordsmasters from those using the sword as a weapon of choice. What makes you a swordsmaster is the ability to cut everything. I'm sure that too plays a role, apart from Haki itself. Though I'm sure you need a very high level of CoA to in order to forge a black blade. Since Hyogoro described the ability to cut everything with advanced Haki.

So a black blade imo, is: high level CoA (mastery) + swordsmastery. Oden has both, but it seems at least one of those components is on a not sufficiently high level. I think Oden is a true swordsmaster given his abilities and attacks. But I think he hasn't mastered CoA (in both strength and form) to a sufficiently high degree to make his blade black. So the moment Zoro will forge a black blade, his attacks will too surpass Oden's.

Or it's as @nik87 says and Mihawk's, Ryuma's and EOS Zoro's CoA are just on a higher level than Roger's for all I care and that's the reason. But I think my theory is reasonable, since black blades were explained in quite an unclear way, with Zoro himself questioning, "forging a black blade? Do you mean...". So I do think there are 2 components here (which Oden both possesses, but at least one of them on a not sufficiently high level).

 

[uyuu]

Black blades contributes to overall strength, but imo its far from being the only indicator, since powers are diverse.

 

[comrade]

Black blades contributes to overall strength, but imo its far from being the only indicator, since powers are diverse.

Indeed. Powers are diverse. But there is no diversity between Oden, Mihawk and Oden. Mihawk = Oden but on a higher level. Or is there a power Oden uses for fighting that is different from Zoro's? It's exactly the same. A swordstyle. Based on cutting you down.

 

[HA001]

The real problem and what bothers Mihawk haters most is the fact, that there is absolutely nothing distinguishing Oden's fighting style with Zoro's and Mihawk's. Oden and Mihawk are both swordmasters who base their fighting style solely not only on swordsmanship but specifically cutting (unlike Roger, who foms barriers around his swords for blunt force, just like Roger's named attack wasn't even a cut).

There is absolutely no distinction between Oden's way of fighting and Mihawk's way of fighting. And that troubles Mihawk haters. Especially coupled with the fact that Tengu said, "Enma has still to become a black blade", as in "Oden didn't achieve that level but you, Zoro, can". Mihawk haters are afraid. So they come up with bullshit like "a black blade is like putting your soul in it".

Theyve dug their own grave with the oden overwank with zoro set to match/ surpass his feats this arc.

My take on this is, even though Roger is a swordsman, he uses the sword more as a weapon of choice but without really being a swordsmaster. Coating your sword with Haki to clash with a Haki barrier isn't a swordstyle. You can replicate this move with any weapon. Just like the ability he used against Oden wasn't really a swordspecific move, as Oden wasn't even cut.

But there is something like "the way of the sword" which Zoro asked Mihawk to teach him. Mihawk said, "a sword without grace is but an iron bar" and this I think is what distinguishes swordsmasters from those using the sword as a weapon of choice. What makes you a swordsmaster is the ability to cut everything. I'm sure that too plays a role, apart from Haki itself. Though I'm sure you need a very high level of CoA to in order to forge a black blade. Since Hyogoro described the ability to cut everything with advanced Haki.

So a black blade imo, is: high level CoA (mastery) + swordsmastery. Oden has both, but it seems at least one of those components is on a not sufficiently high level. I think Oden is a true swordsmaster given his abilities and attacks. But I think he hasn't mastered CoA (in both strength and form) to a sufficiently high degree to make his blade black. So the moment Zoro will forge a black blade, his attacks will too surpass Oden's.

Or it's as @nik87 says and Mihawk's, Ryuma's and EOS Zoro's CoA are just on a higher level than Roger's for all I care and that's the reason. But I think my theory is reasonable, since black blades were explained in quite an unclear way, with Zoro himself questioning, "forging a black blade? Do you mean...". So I do think there are 2 components here (which Oden both possesses, but at least one of them on a not sufficiently high level).

Just going to point out that roger is not only a swordsman but a swordsmaster.
Koshiro teaching zoro swordsmanship and talking about reaching the pinnacle of swordsmanship taught him the basis of ryou (haki)
Mihawk first and only shown lesson to zoro on the "way of the sword" was also teaching him haki and coating his sword. Roger does both those things to an extremely high level. Hes a without a doubt a swordsmaster.

 

[comrade]

Theyve dug their own grave with the oden overwank with zoro set to match/ surpass his feats this arc.

Zoro = Oden basically, just that Zoro at some point decided to take a third sword into his mouth. Even their stance in Nitoryu was the same. Zoro is an advanced form of Oden and Zoro surpassing Oden will be displayed through forging a black blade.

Just going to point out that roger is not only a swordsman but a swordsmaster.
Koshiro teaching zoro swordsmanship and talking about reaching the pinnacle of swordsmanship taught him the basis of ryou (haki)
Mihawk first and only shown lesson to zoro on the "way of the sword" was also teaching him haki and coating his sword

Indeed. Hyogoro said that with advanced Haki and by letting it flow through your blade, you become one with it and are able to cut everything. Swordsmastery demands high mastery and strength of CoA. Without it you ain't no swordsmaster. And Mihawk has both the philosophy of cutting everything and that every nick on your blade is a shame. Swordsmen are more than anyone obsessed with boosting their CoA to extreme heights.

 

[MarineHQ]

This thread is pure facts. It's hard to deny when the evidence is so striking.

Post automatically merged: Dec 20, 2020

There is no point in protecting Roger. His days are numbered as well. There is no way that Zoro will be inferior to any swordsman ever.
Oda is simply not in the business of keeping old era on the pedestal but instead in the business of pushing Zoro to the heights not yet achieved. The guy can pull a demon god with 9 swords... Roger's tricks look pale compared to that.

It's true that Roger's portrayal is taking hits recently:

• Never bested any of his rivals in direct combat
• Was saved by a miracle against one of those rivals
• Doesn't have the highest "title" available in the OP world due to the existence of Imu. King of the World > Pirate King.

I know which agenda I'll be rocking by EOS

 

[comrade]

Oden: *inflicts deep wound and scar to Kaido, giving him life long trauma*
Tengu: "Oden's power was still lacking. Enma still has to become black. You, Zoro, will do it"
Mihawk- and Zoro-Haters: "It's the soul. Tengu told Zoro to put his soul into Enma. It's not related to power"

:laughmoji:

 

[uyuu]

Indeed. Powers are diverse. But there is no diversity between Oden, Mihawk and Oden. Mihawk = Oden but on a higher level. Or is there a power Oden uses for fighting that is different from Zoro's? It's exactly the same. A swordstyle. Based on cutting you down.

Its still diverse imo, one swordsman may rely on armament proficiency the most to beat the opponent, while the other may rely on observation haki or instinct or intelligence the most to see and abuse the opponent's blind spot, and the other may rely on his feints or counter-attack stances the most to put the opponent at a disadvantage. The whole "put x on another level by default" depending just on a black blade doesn't cover whole areas of strength if we talk about real combat.

 

[Kenshiro11]

Its still diverse imo, one swordsman may rely on armament proficiency the most to beat the opponent, while the other may rely on observation haki or instinct or intelligence the most to see and abuse the opponent's blind spot, and the other may rely on his feints or counter-attack stances the most to put the opponent at a disadvantage. The whole "put x on another level by default" depending just on a black blade doesn't cover whole areas of strength if we talk about real combat.

or just decides to rain down meteor on your ass
non black blade user Fujitora, such a pity

 

[Seraphoenix]

Oden: *inflicts deep wound and scar to Kaido, giving him life long trauma*
Tengu: "Oden's power was still lacking. Enma still has to become black. You, Zoro, will do it"
Mihawk- and Zoro-Haters: "It's the soul. Tengu told Zoro to put his soul into Enma. It's not related to power"

:laughmoji:

Are you really one of those Zoro fans who talks about haters? Lol.

the fact that Tengu talks about it becoming a black blade means making a black blade is a lot more common than we are shown. Otherwise what basis would he have to say that? Also you keep going on about Mihawk, but panel where it’s confirmed he made Yoru black? Lastly we were told Shusui became black after numerous battles. So it seems to be a grind thing. Similar to how Mihawk competed with every swordsman he could find except some strong ones like Vista, Fujitora etc.

 

[Fallen Prince]

I think its valid though given mihawk and Ryuma have attained highest form using black blade it really shows the mastery level they attained.

I feel oden was monster as child and his brute strength was enough to accomdate the salwordsmanskills.

In terms of raw strength Oden tops the chart here.

So if zoro attains the ranks it will be his swordsmanskill but he has also shown qualities he possess raw strength along with swordsman skill he could best mihawk by EOS.

Post automatically merged: Dec 21, 2020

The real problem and what bothers Mihawk haters most is the fact, that there is absolutely nothing distinguishing Oden's fighting style with Zoro's and Mihawk's. Oden and Mihawk are both swordmasters who base their fighting style solely not only on swordsmanship but specifically cutting (unlike Roger, who foms barriers around his swords for blunt force, just like Roger's named attack wasn't even a cut).

There is absolutely no distinction between Oden's way of fighting and Mihawk's way of fighting. And that troubles Mihawk haters. Especially coupled with the fact that Tengu said, "Enma has still to become a black blade", as in "Oden didn't achieve that level but you, Zoro, can". Mihawk haters are afraid. So they come up with bullshit like "a black blade is like putting your soul in it".

So will you put mihawk above Roger and WB considering either of them did not bother to attain the level of black blade?

It only shows swordsmanskill Mihawk is master in his own world, on other departments he is questionable .

Post automatically merged: Dec 21, 2020

Yet whitebeard's supreme blade isn't black. If whitebeard did turn his blade black, would his blade be supreme+?
Odaq really needs to explain more about swords in general and how you forge a black blade.

Its cluster fuck storyline. Thats why i think oda here overcomplicate things. His stories are into sub plots than main contents.

In reality if zoro manages to kill kaido that easily makes him better than mihawk. It also means zoro is better than than current like big mom, shank etc who failed to kill kaido for 20 years.

Zoro 's motto of surpassing mihawk is the main story this is what he trained his entire life to best the guy on top.

Overall oden's storyline created new dimensions and problem of headcase for oda.

He could have gone with plot of Ryuma's sword. Again the whole of oden plot does not seem to be main storyline of one piece.

 

[Konstantis]

Yes, I agree that Ryuma indeed is stronger than Oden, but how Mihawk with museum sword could be stronger than Oden?

 

[Patapujuro]

while the other may rely on observation haki or instinct or intelligence the most to see and abuse the opponent's blind spot

I feel like this is Mihawk's style actually, based on what he said about not wanting to waste energy just to "chase a rabbit."
His eyes also seem to prey on his opponents, perhaps to target their blind spots.

 

[Extravlad]

No one except delusional Yonko wankers would believe that Oden is stronger than Mihawk.

 

[style]

It's not related to power

According to Zoro haters everything related to him is about skills, ability, spirit etc and never about strength.

Except that this is Zoro:

 

[trav]

did not read the post yet. its very rude of me, I know, but anyways... (I will do it later on)

answering the titel for now.
why its not:

- ryou is not the same for everyone. Odens physical power was greater than his Scabbards. Kaido can be harmed by ryou, but force is still required to actually do something with it. Oden was a physical monster.

- CoA is just one part of a fighter. we know very little of Mihawks other stats. that is also implying that Black Blades are purely based on CoA strength. which is already an assumption. Oden could beat Mihawk in any other category than CoA too. its possible.

now let me take a look at that post :-)

nothing changed.
for reference. Luffy beat Katakuri.
Katakuri had better CoA, better CoO and better, uhm, just better anything basically.
except 1 thing. endurance (and temporarily AP through Boundman). Luffy still won.

acting like 1 superior stats (which is already arguable) means superiority overall is foolish imo.
so, no. Mihawk is not above Oden let alone Ryuma by default.

 

[Zolo]

Because I place Roger below Mihawk as well.

Zoro fans allways makes me lough, thanks but mihawk is YC1 level

 

[nik87]

Zoro fans allways makes me lough, thanks but mihawk is YC1 level

You are welcome. :cheers: In that case, Zoro is already WSS since he left Mihawk's island.

 

[PurpleSwordsman]

No, the only difference between a permanent black sword and a one coated with Haki for some time is the duration of it, nothing more, and the second has the Haki properties (touch logias and counter some DF abilites) unlike the first case.
So that does not prove a shit.
And we even know that not all swords can be turned black permanently since only Emma has that capacity unlike the other Oden' sword, so not all depends on the user Haki/skill/whatever is required for it, it depends on the sword as well (probably needs to have some chracteristics or some shit).

And there is no confirmation that Mihawk was the one who turned black his sword. For what we know, he might have found it.

Another crap thread of Zorobois wanking their characters lmao.

 

[Konstantis]

Case we have no prove that Mihawk made his sword black, only Ryuma.

Post automatically merged: Dec 21, 2020

Don't forget that Roger didn't have Black Sword either, before responding me wankers.
While it's fact that Roger is beyond Mihawk