Powers & Abilities Why the black blade puts Mihawk and Ryuma above Oden by default

[Chaves]

What arguments? That a black blade has nothing to do with strength but it's the swordsman putting his soul into his sword?

No, I was expecting a response from you to these comments:

I think its valid though given mihawk and Ryuma have attained highest form using black blade it really shows the mastery level they attained.

I feel oden was monster as child and his brute strength was enough to accomdate the salwordsmanskills.

In terms of raw strength Oden tops the chart here.

So if zoro attains the ranks it will be his swordsmanskill but he has also shown qualities he possess raw strength along with swordsman skill he could best mihawk by EOS.

Post automatically merged: Dec 21, 2020

So will you put mihawk above Roger and WB considering either of them did not bother to attain the level of black blade?

It only shows swordsmanskill Mihawk is master in his own world, on other departments he is questionable .

Post automatically merged: Dec 21, 2020

Its cluster fuck storyline. Thats why i think oda here overcomplicate things. His stories are into sub plots than main contents.

In reality if zoro manages to kill kaido that easily makes him better than mihawk. It also means zoro is better than than current like big mom, shank etc who failed to kill kaido for 20 years.

Zoro 's motto of surpassing mihawk is the main story this is what he trained his entire life to best the guy on top.

Overall oden's storyline created new dimensions and problem of headcase for oda.

He could have gone with plot of Ryuma's sword. Again the whole of oden plot does not seem to be main storyline of one piece.

did not read the post yet. its very rude of me, I know, but anyways... (I will do it later on)

answering the titel for now.
why its not:

- ryou is not the same for everyone. Odens physical power was greater than his Scabbards. Kaido can be harmed by ryou, but force is still required to actually do something with it. Oden was a physical monster.

- CoA is just one part of a fighter. we know very little of Mihawks other stats. that is also implying that Black Blades are purely based on CoA strength. which is already an assumption. Oden could beat Mihawk in any other category than CoA too. its possible.

now let me take a look at that post :-)

nothing changed.
for reference. Luffy beat Katakuri.
Katakuri had better CoA, better CoO and better, uhm, just better anything basically.
except 1 thing. endurance (and temporarily AP through Boundman). Luffy still won.

acting like 1 superior stats (which is already arguable) means superiority overall is foolish imo.
so, no. Mihawk is not above Oden let alone Ryuma by default.

 

[HA001]

No, you're just being ignorant to the points I am making. You guys just go "Look! A he knows how to use a Sword! Must be a Swordsman!"

Because thats the fucking definition of a swordsman duh

You can't even differentiate between those who embody the way of life of a Swordsman like Oden, Mihawk, The Samurai, Zoro, and those who just know how to use a Sword, so they do, to compliment their fight style.

Because their is no difference duh its the same fucking thing.
Law and zoro arent the same yet they are both FUCKING SWORDSMEN

zoro has had 2 swordsmanship teachers koshiro and mihawk lets start with koshiros SWORDSMANSHIP teachings

lets start with koshiro

Spoiler

just to add hyogoros teachings on the same thing

Koshiros SWORDSMANSHIP lessons for zoro have been proven to be the concept of ryou on the blade
someone who can use ryou on the blade is a bonafide swordsman
hyogoro himself was called mighty blade in the past
something zoro and ryuma 2 other SWORDSMEN were also called

Spoiler

On to teacher 2 mihawk

Spoiler

This magical WAY OF THE SWORD that you keep talking shit about
and the first and only lesson shown so far of the SWORDSMAN EXCLUSIVE WAY OF THE SWORD IS...

Spoiler

COATING THE SWORD IN HAKI

so the combined teachings of the way of the sword taught by swordmen teaching zoro swordsmanship are
-the concept of ryou
- coating swords in haki

and roger oh look
he does both

Spoiler

so roger not only
- has a sword (nailed on saijo)
- has ryou on a blade (highest level weve seen)
- is able to coat his blade (his haki even leaks off his sword)
not only is this man a swordsman but he is a master of swordsmanship.

 

[comrade]

I feel oden was monster as child and his brute strength was enough to accomdate the salwordsmanskills.

In terms of raw strength Oden tops the chart here.

So if zoro attains the ranks it will be his swordsmanskill but he has also shown qualities he possess raw strength along with swordsman skill he could best mihawk by EOS.

Zoro and Mihawk are too power-based swordsmen. Zoro, starting as a child, was already doing hundreds if not thousands of reps using huge boulders:

Spoiler

Luffy, Sabo and Ace, who did not focus at all on physical training, were also trashing huge, wild beast:

Spoiler

Spoiler

With Zoro even pre TS training with tons of weights and lifting buildings in an injured state. Deflecting Oars' punches with pure strength and stalling a Dragon.

It's true that Oden is naturally more monstrous physically, but as a superhuman who spent his life increasing his physical strength, Zoro at this peak won't be far off, if not equal. Whitebeard is also known to be naturally a physical monster. Stopping the moby dick one handed while old, sick and on his death bed. Yet Shanks, one handed, equally clashed with a Whitebeard on meds who held his bisento in both hands.

There is no huge difference in physical strength.

So will you put mihawk above Roger and WB considering either of them did not bother to attain the level of black blade?

It only shows swordsmanskill Mihawk is master in his own world, on other departments he is questionable .

As I pointed out, yes, powers are indeed diverse. And while Whitebeard for example lacks a black blade, he has other powers like the Gura Gura no Mi, which is an incredible powerup. Same goes for Roger, who might have other powers which we have yet to witness thrugh Luffy. Arguing with Roger doesn't make sense, we barely saw him. But Oden on the other hand is a great example; we know all of his feats and he has no diversity. No DF or gun mastery. He is a swordsman of the same kind as Zoro and Mihawk. So what other distinction than the black blade do we have?

ryou is not the same for everyone. Odens physical power was greater than his Scabbards. Kaido can be harmed by ryou, but force is still required to actually do something with it. Oden was a physical monster.

And as we pointed out, the force Zoro and Mihawk have, is also incredibly high. Mihawk casually swings his blade from distance and bisects an island sized iceberg and lifts it hundreds of meters up into the air. Do you think that's just skill? Yes, skill plays a huge role, but it's also power.

CoA is just one part of a fighter. we know very little of Mihawks other stats. that is also implying that Black Blades are purely based on CoA strength. which is already an assumption. Oden could beat Mihawk in any other category than CoA too. its possible.

I don't deny that. But then again, what has Oden shown what distinguishes him from Zoro or Mihawk? Mihawk's CoA must be of the highest level. CoO? What are Oden's CoO feats? He has none. Meanwhile Mihawk almost received the epithet "clairvoyant". His eyes are extremely sharp, his CoO is probably of a very high level too. His physical stats must be on a very high level too. There is nothing about Oden that is on a completely different level as compared to Mihawk. Even if Oden's physical strength is above Mihawk's; neither it is tiers above Mihawk, nor does superior physical strength play a crucial role compared to other skills and Haki. Again, example one handed Shanks vs. two handed Whitebeard, who is known as a physical monster by Kizaru's own words.

Katakuri had better CoA, better CoO and better, uhm, just better anything basically.
except 1 thing. endurance (and temporarily AP through Boundman). Luffy still won.

Luffy's CoO caught up. Katakuri's CoA was harder, but boundman on the other hand more AP, plus Luffy having way more endurance. But Mihawk's attack power beyond Oden's, let's be fair. He casually destroys island sized ice bergs from distance. Do you think Oden would have destroyed an island sized ice berg casually from a 1km distance, by swinging his swords without Haki?

 

[Fallen Prince]

Good Arguments but you underrate oden's raw power even whitebeard had difficulty fighting him when he was attacked.

Its weird Oden did not attain blavk blade this is why i think his character is broken. Maybe oda wants to set bar for black blade

Its like highest level in the world given ode was more into adventures than fights it makes sense he was not into improving his swordsman skills.

It makes sense Zoro will attain black blade with Enma .

 

[stealthblack]

this assumes that mihawk made it black ,and he didn't find it already black, same way zoro found black sword of ryuuma in thriller bark.

 

[Rmstorm]

Oda didnt give roger anything else though did he. He gave him a sword. You have no point.

Roger used a Sword and a gun in the Shiki fight.

 

[HA001]

Roger used a Sword and a gun in the Shiki fight.

Roger never got off his ship against shikki. A storm ended that.
If he were to actually fight shikki theyd both use their swords

 

[Fallen Prince]

this assumes that mihawk made it black ,and he didn't find it already black, same way zoro found black sword of ryuuma in thriller bark.

Given black blade ability is rare quality maybe this is why mihawk is called Greatest swordsman.

He probably defeated someone before him who possessed the black blade.

Ya oda needs to go deep here or it will end in confusion. I dont see zoro gaining with Enma easily maybe before EOS he might achieve it while fighting someone like Shiryuu.

This is why i think zoro vs Mihawk is fated fight as well maybe there cant be two black blade users it only results in conflict.

 

[trav]

But then again, what has Oden shown what distinguishes him from Zoro or Mihawk? Mihawk's CoA must be of the highest level. CoO? What are Oden's CoO feats? He has none. Meanwhile Mihawk almost received the epithet "clairvoyant". His eyes are extremely sharp, his CoO is probably of a very high level too.

you base everything on assumptions again. CoA must be of the highest level? says who?
his CoO is great because of a title he did not really receive? assumptions.
Oden did not receive CoO portrayal because thats not the kind of fighter he is. hes a brute. he powers through and endures. he charges in an asks questions later.
this sort of style does not fit Mihawk for example. Mihawk is cunning.

you are also too hung up on the examples I delivered. Mihawk could be better at CoA and at CoO and at AP too and still lose to Oden.
Luffys CoO and CoA never got past Katakuris level, it only approached it, and Luffy won.
you are seeing fights as way too one dimensional, I think.

its not that I disagree that Mihawk is stronger than Oden. I believe he is.
its the "by default" where I heavily disagree. even more so in regards to Ryuma.

 

[Jo_Ndule]

Zoro and Mihawk are too power-based swordsmen. Zoro, starting as a child, was already doing hundreds if not thousands of reps using huge boulders:

Spoiler

Luffy, Sabo and Ace, who did not focus at all on physical training, were also trashing huge, wild beast:

Spoiler

Spoiler

With Zoro even pre TS training with tons of weights and lifting buildings in an injured state. Deflecting Oars' punches with pure strength and stalling a Dragon.

It's true that Oden is naturally more monstrous physically, but as a superhuman who spent his life increasing his physical strength, Zoro at this peak won't be far off, if not equal. Whitebeard is also known to be naturally a physical monster. Stopping the moby dick one handed while old, sick and on his death bed. Yet Shanks, one handed, equally clashed with a Whitebeard on meds who held his bisento in both hands.

There is no huge difference in physical strength.

As I pointed out, yes, powers are indeed diverse. And while Whitebeard for example lacks a black blade, he has other powers like the Gura Gura no Mi, which is an incredible powerup. Same goes for Roger, who might have other powers which we have yet to witness thrugh Luffy. Arguing with Roger doesn't make sense, we barely saw him. But Oden on the other hand is a great example; we know all of his feats and he has no diversity. No DF or gun mastery. He is a swordsman of the same kind as Zoro and Mihawk. So what other distinction than the black blade do we have?

And as we pointed out, the force Zoro and Mihawk have, is also incredibly high. Mihawk casually swings his blade from distance and bisects an island sized iceberg and lifts it hundreds of meters up into the air. Do you think that's just skill? Yes, skill plays a huge role, but it's also power.

I don't deny that. But then again, what has Oden shown what distinguishes him from Zoro or Mihawk? Mihawk's CoA must be of the highest level. CoO? What are Oden's CoO feats? He has none. Meanwhile Mihawk almost received the epithet "clairvoyant". His eyes are extremely sharp, his CoO is probably of a very high level too. His physical stats must be on a very high level too. There is nothing about Oden that is on a completely different level as compared to Mihawk. Even if Oden's physical strength is above Mihawk's; neither it is tiers above Mihawk, nor does superior physical strength play a crucial role compared to other skills and Haki. Again, example one handed Shanks vs. two handed Whitebeard, who is known as a physical monster by Kizaru's own words.

Luffy's CoO caught up. Katakuri's CoA was harder, but boundman on the other hand more AP, plus Luffy having way more endurance. But Mihawk's attack power beyond Oden's, let's be fair. He casually destroys island sized ice bergs from distance. Do you think Oden would have destroyed an island sized ice berg casually from a 1km distance, by swinging his swords without Haki?

You gotta be dreaming hf you think Mihawk is evem above Oden in AP.

Cutting iceberg isn't a great feat of AP
Oden is a monster whose AP > 3 high tiers + 1 mid tier
Mihawk has never been confirmed to have AP or being overall > 2 high tiers at once even.

Even Wb isn't a physical monster as Oden. Only kaido and BM are superior to Oden when it comes to physical stats.

You base your Mihawk wank on old sketches...
Oden under water was able to sense Tsuki who was far away in an island. Mihawk is yet to show any coo feat better than this.

The fact you think zoro/mihawk/sabo/ace are hyped physically as Oden, shows how blinded you are.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Roger is a swordsman.

But Zoro EOS ONLY surpasses Roger's swordsmanship lol.

That's why the idea that "having a black blade automatically puts you as a fighter above those who dont" is complete bullshit. Many fighters tend to have abilities/skills that make up for not having one.

Roger and Whitebeard have the biggest display of raw power to date in this series. They dont need to have a black blade to beat people that do. Its impressive that Mihawk, Ryuma and eventually Zoro reached/will reach the peak of a specific application of CoA. But dont lets not get crazy lol. Oden can still very much win against Ryuma and Mihawk. It just wont be an easy feat

 

[nik87]

Roger and Whitebeard have the biggest display of raw power to date in this series.

Which feat is that?
Also, do you really believe Oda wants to make Roger into the strongest swordsman ever instead of the main character Zoro?
If you do, nothing can help you...

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Which feat is that?
Also, do you really believe Oda wants to make Roger into the strongest swordsman ever instead of the main character Zoro?
If you do, nothing can help you...

Wdym which feat is that? Theres only one chapter where we see combat feats from Roger at all lol.

If Roger were alive right now and beat Mihawk in a fight the world would recognise that as the PK beating the WSS.

Oda does not recognize Roger as the best swordsman, however he recognizes Roger and WB as the strongest pirates that ever existed for different areas of strength other than cutting power lol

 

[nik87]

Wdym which feat is that? Theres only one chapter where we see combat feats from Roger at all lol.

If Roger were alive right now and beat Mihawk in a fight the world would recognise that as the PK beating the WSS.

Oda does not recognize Roger as the best swordsman, however he recognizes Roger and WB as the strongest pirates that ever existed for different areas of strength other than cutting power lol

Sorry to disappoint you then, that was not raw power.
Too bad for Roger but Zoro would target him and beat him.
Zoro is the main character, not Roger, time to understand that after 23 years.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Sorry to disappoint you then, that was not raw power.
Too bad for Roger but Zoro would target him and beat him.
Zoro is the main character, not Roger, time to understand that after 23 years.

Zoro will surpass Roger in cutting power. Cutting ability is not what Roger focuses on.

This was raw power. The most powerful display of Haki to date, a level of Haki Luffy alone will achieve and surpass:

http://imgur.com/dOC6h8B

http://imgur.com/dssoT1J

23 years, Zoro's benchmark to surpass is still Mihawk. Roger is Luffy's. Mihawk may be a more skilled swordsman but he not stronger than Roger lol.

 

[HA001]

Zoro will surpass Roger in cutting power. Cutting ability is not what Roger focuses on.

This was raw power. The most powerful display of Haki to date, a level of Haki Luffy alone will achieve and surpass:

http://imgur.com/dOC6h8B

http://imgur.com/dssoT1J

23 years, Zoro's benchmark to surpass is still Mihawk. Roger is Luffy's. Mihawk may be a more skilled swordsman but he not stronger than Roger lol.

How do you know that wouldnt cut ?
We dont know what that attack would do if wb didnt block it with his own.

 

[nik87]

Zoro will surpass Roger in cutting power. Cutting ability is not what Roger focuses on.

This was raw power. The most powerful display of Haki to date, a level of Haki Luffy alone will achieve and surpass:

23 years, Zoro's benchmark to surpass is still Mihawk. Roger is Luffy's. Mihawk may be a more skilled swordsman but he not stronger than Roger lol.

Not sure if you know what you are talking about...
Everything that is in those pics is contributing to cutting power so if you want to protect Roger you should come up with a better excuse.
If Asura is haki, Roger is already taking a back seat behind Zoro because no other mortal has anything close to Zoro's ability.

What you are showing is physical strength and haki, which are things that Zoro pursues because it improves cutting power, lol.
Zoro's goal is the best swordsman ever so think again. If he is more skilled than Roger he is stronger than Roger, that simple.
Good luck betting on side characters instead of main ones, lmao. As if Oda would make any other swordsman above Zoro lol.

 

[style]

A sword without grace is no strong sword

The more you are skilled the stronger you are

So you can't be more skilled and weaker at the same time in One Piece (obv don't compare Kaido with a sword to EB Zoro, that is stretched and you know it. I'm talking about people of similar or somehow comparable level)

 

[Yubel]

No you’re speculation too much for no reason. The black blade is simply armament haki which Oden used against Kaido, maybe after some point the sword would maybe have that as a default but it doesn’t mean Oden is less of a swordsman because of it although I do agree Mihawk would clap him.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

I thought it was very obvious that Mihawk and Ryuma are stronger than Oden?