Which Supernova are capable of properly damaging Kaido

  • Kidd

  • Killer

  • Law

  • Luffy

  • Zoro

  • None of them


Results are only viewable after voting.

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
β€Ž
#1
Acknowledgements
This is an expansion of a reply to @Gyro1987 in another thread.


Disclaimer
I tag a lot of people for my posts. If you want to be removed from my tag lists, let me know. Likewise, if you want to be added.


Introduction
Zoro and Luffy have been the only Supernova that have been depicted as being capable of properly damaging Kaido. Many people seem to have not fully grokked this and persist in claims that Zoro has been grouped with Killer, while the captains have been grouped together as some sort of "Monster Trio". That is patently false, for if any subset of the Supernovas have been singled out, it is the aforementioned duo.


Luffy
For Luffy, this was demonstrated via Red Roc, Kong Gatling and Red Hawk:
  • Red Roc
    • Mama questioned how Kaido could let himself get hit like that:
    • Kaido was shocked that Luffy's punch could damage him:
    • Kidd commented that he couldn't believe physical blows could hurt Kaido:
    • Killer cried out in relief that they stood a chance of winning:
      • This means that prior to Red Roc, Killer did not actually believe they could win.
        • This reinforces that Killer and Kidd lacked the means to properly damage Kaido.
    • Kaido questioned what happened after he defeated Luffy that Luffy was now one of the "scant few" capable of properly fighting him
    • Kaido questioned how high Luffy's ceiling would go and compared him to the likes of Roger, Whitebeard, and co:
    • The attack left Kaido grinning:
  • Kong Gatling
    • Mama was amazed:
    • Kidd was stupefied:
    • Mama actually inquired about Kaido after the attack
      • This shows that she was unsure as to whether Kaido was okay after receiving such a powerful assault.
    • Kidd comments that Luffy's drawback of losing his haki for 10 minutes would be worth it if his blows did actual damage:
      • This reinforces that Kidd's own attacks weren't dealing actual damage.
  • Red Hawk(?)
    • Kaido chooses to dodge Luffy's attack:
    • Luffy questions why Kaido is dodging his attack, speculating that it's because it would do real damage:


Zoro
For Zoro this was demonstrated via Hiryuu Kaen and Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki:
  • Hiryuu Kaen
    • It was so potent that it terrified Big Mom (a top tier swordsman in her own right, and along with Kaido one of the most durable characters in the series). It compelled Big Mom to warn Kaido to dodge:
      • This is the only attack on the Rooftop that Kaido felt the need to dodge.
    • Just witnessing Zoro prepare the attack had Kaido shook:
    • After Kaido successfully dodged the attack, Mama chastised him for greatly underestimating Zoro:
  • Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki
    • Kaido acknowledged that Zoro successfully countered his Tatsumaki:
    • Kaido directly deployed "Tatsumaki: Gale of Destruction" in response to Zoro:
    • Killer expresses surprise that Zoro cut Kaido:
    • Mama is surprised at Zoro cutting Kaido:


The Rest
On the other hand, here's how the Yonkou regarded the attacks of the other Supernova:
  • Kaido previously called Law's Gamma Knife, Kidd's Slam Gibson, and Luffy's Kong Rifle "tricks":
  • He called Killer's Scyther Sonic "vexing":

Given the reactions of the Yonkou, the only on panel Supernova attacks that were capable of dealing significant damage to Kaido were:
  1. Luffy's Red Roc
  2. Zoro's Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki
  3. Luffy's Kong Gatling
  4. Zoro's Hiryuu Kaen


Conclusions
Zoro and Luffy have repeatedly received decisively superior portrayal to their fellow Rooftop Supernova. On several occasions, Oda drove in that as far as offensive prowess went, they were on a different calibre compared to their fellow Supernova. They alone had the ability to properly damage the invincible Kaido. They alone have had their attacks dodged by Kaido.

They are just built different.


Summary
To summarise my claims so far:
  • Luffy and Zoro have been depicted separately from amongst the Rooftop Supernova as the only ones capable of damaging Kaido.
  • This was demonstrated by the exceptional portrayal their attacks received:
    • Luffy
      • Red Roc
      • Kong Gatling
      • Red Hawk
    • Zoro
      • Hiryuu Kaen
      • Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki
  • All the other Supernova attacks were regarded by Kaido as either mere tricks or β€” more notably in the case of Killer's Sonic Scythe β€” "vexing".
  • Kaido has dodged their attacks
    • He dodged Zoro's Hiryuu Kaen
    • He dodged Luffy's Red Hawk
 
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Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
β€Ž
#6
Acknowledgements
This is an expansion of a reply to @Gyro1987 in another thread.


Disclaimer
I tag a lot of people for my posts. If you want to be removed from my tag lists, let me know. Likewise, if you want to be added.


Introduction
Zoro and Luffy have been the only Supernova that have been depicted as being capable of properly damaging Kaido. Many people seem to have not fully grokked this and persist in claims that Zoro has been grouped with Killer, while the captains have been grouped together as some sort of "Monster Trio". That is patently false, for if any subset of the Supernovas have been singled out, it is the aforementioned duo.


Luffy
For Luffy, this was demonstrated via Red Roc, Kong Gatling and Red Hawk:
  • Red Roc
    • Mama questioned how Kaido could let himself get hit like that:
    • Kaido was shocked that Luffy's punch could damage him:
    • Kidd commented that he couldn't believe physical blows could hurt Kaido:
    • Killer cried out in relief that they stood a chance of winning:
      • This means that prior to Red Roc, Killer did not actually believe they could win.
        • This reinforces that Killer and Kidd lacked the means to properly damage Kaido.
    • Kaido questioned what happened after he defeated Luffy that Luffy was now one of the "scant few" capable of properly fighting him
    • Kaido questioned how high Luffy's ceiling would go and compared him to the likes of Roger, Whitebeard, and co:
    • The attack left Kaido grinning:
  • Kong Gatling
    • Mama was amazed:
    • Kidd was stupefied:
    • Mama actually inquired about Kaido after the attack
      • This shows that she was unsure as to whether Kaido was okay after receiving such a powerful assault.
    • Kidd comments that Luffy's drawback of losing his haki for 10 minutes would be worth it if his blows did actual damage:
      • This reinforces that Kidd's own attacks weren't dealing actual damage.
  • Red Hawk(?)
    • Kaido chooses to dodge Luffy's attack:
    • Luffy questions why Kaido is dodging his attack, speculating that it's because it would do real damage:


Zoro
For Zoro this was demonstrated via Hiryuu Kaen and Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki:
  • Hiryuu Kaen
    • It was so potent that it terrified Big Mom (a top tier swordsman in her own right, and along with Kaido one of the most durable characters in the series). It compelled Big Mom to warn Kaido to dodge:
      • This is the only attack on the Rooftop that Kaido felt the need to dodge.
    • Just witnessing Zoro prepare the attack had Kaido shook:
    • After Kaido successfully dodged the attack, Mama chastised him for greatly underestimating Zoro:
  • Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki
    • Kaido acknowledged that Zoro successfully countered his Tatsumaki:
    • Kaido directly deployed "Tatsumaki: Gale of Destruction" in response to Zoro:
    • Killer expresses surprise that Zoro cut Kaido:
    • Mama is surprised at Zoro cutting Kaido:


The Rest
On the other hand, here's how the Yonkou regarded the attacks of the other Supernova:
  • Kaido previously called Law's Gamma Knife, Kidd's Slam Gibson, and Luffy's Kong Rifle "tricks":
  • He called Killer's Scyther Sonic "vexing":

Given the reactions of the Yonkou, the only on panel Supernova attacks that were capable of dealing significant damage to Kaido were:
  1. Luffy's Red Roc
  2. Zoro's Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki
  3. Luffy's Kong Gatling
  4. Zoro's Hiryuu Kaen


Conclusions
Zoro and Luffy have repeatedly received decisively superior portrayal to their fellow Rooftop Supernova. On several occasions, Oda drove in that as far as offensive prowess went, they were on a different calibre compared to their fellow Supernova. They alone had the ability to properly damage the invincible Kaido. They alone have had their attacks dodged by Kaido.

They are just built different.


Summary
To summarise my claims so far:
  • Luffy and Zoro have been depicted separately from amongst the Rooftop Supernova as the only ones capable of damaging Kaido.
  • This was demonstrated by the exceptional portrayal their attacks received:
    • Luffy
      • Red Roc
      • Kong Gatling
      • Red Hawk
    • Zoro
      • Hiryuu Kaen
      • Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki
  • All the other Supernova attacks were regarded by Kaido as either mere tricks or β€” more notably in the case of Killer's Sonic Scythe β€” "vexing".
  • Kaido has dodged their attacks
    • He dodged Zoro's Hiryuu Kaen
    • He dodged Luffy's Red Hawk
Bump.

This chapter reinforces my argument. It is once again suggested that only Luffy (and Zoro) have the ability to properly damage Kaido with Kaido electing to evade his Red Hawk(?)
  • Kaido chooses to dodge Luffy's attack:
  • Luffy questions why Kaido is dodging his attack, speculating that it's because it would do real damage:

Oda has had Kaido dodge attacks from both β€” and only β€” Zoro and Luffy now.


 
#8
Remove Luffy's status as the main character, and you will only get Zoro that is built differently tbh.

> Kaido dodged current Luffy's attack because his Red Roc damaged Kaido earlier.
Yep, big thing. Except it only took Alabasta arc for Zoro to make Kaido dodges his attack.

> Zoro already survived Top Tier Mihawk's attack since East Blue, and this chapter after tasting Hakai, he didn't go down and still able to fight Prometheus.
Luffy until some days ago was still taken out by Thunder Bagua, which is far below Hakai, and most likely closer to Mihawk's nameless Yoru slash that Zoro ate in East Blue.

But since Luffy is the main character, so sure, he will also get big rewards later.
 
#9
Acknowledgements
This is an expansion of a reply to @Gyro1987 in another thread.


Disclaimer
I tag a lot of people for my posts. If you want to be removed from my tag lists, let me know. Likewise, if you want to be added.


Introduction
Zoro and Luffy have been the only Supernova that have been depicted as being capable of properly damaging Kaido. Many people seem to have not fully grokked this and persist in claims that Zoro has been grouped with Killer, while the captains have been grouped together as some sort of "Monster Trio". That is patently false, for if any subset of the Supernovas have been singled out, it is the aforementioned duo.


Luffy
For Luffy, this was demonstrated via Red Roc, Kong Gatling and Red Hawk:
  • Red Roc
    • Mama questioned how Kaido could let himself get hit like that:
    • Kaido was shocked that Luffy's punch could damage him:
    • Kidd commented that he couldn't believe physical blows could hurt Kaido:
    • Killer cried out in relief that they stood a chance of winning:
      • This means that prior to Red Roc, Killer did not actually believe they could win.
        • This reinforces that Killer and Kidd lacked the means to properly damage Kaido.
    • Kaido questioned what happened after he defeated Luffy that Luffy was now one of the "scant few" capable of properly fighting him
    • Kaido questioned how high Luffy's ceiling would go and compared him to the likes of Roger, Whitebeard, and co:
    • The attack left Kaido grinning:
  • Kong Gatling
    • Mama was amazed:
    • Kidd was stupefied:
    • Mama actually inquired about Kaido after the attack
      • This shows that she was unsure as to whether Kaido was okay after receiving such a powerful assault.
    • Kidd comments that Luffy's drawback of losing his haki for 10 minutes would be worth it if his blows did actual damage:
      • This reinforces that Kidd's own attacks weren't dealing actual damage.
  • Red Hawk(?)
    • Kaido chooses to dodge Luffy's attack:
    • Luffy questions why Kaido is dodging his attack, speculating that it's because it would do real damage:


Zoro
For Zoro this was demonstrated via Hiryuu Kaen and Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki:
  • Hiryuu Kaen
    • It was so potent that it terrified Big Mom (a top tier swordsman in her own right, and along with Kaido one of the most durable characters in the series). It compelled Big Mom to warn Kaido to dodge:
      • This is the only attack on the Rooftop that Kaido felt the need to dodge.
    • Just witnessing Zoro prepare the attack had Kaido shook:
    • After Kaido successfully dodged the attack, Mama chastised him for greatly underestimating Zoro:
  • Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki
    • Kaido acknowledged that Zoro successfully countered his Tatsumaki:
    • Kaido directly deployed "Tatsumaki: Gale of Destruction" in response to Zoro:
    • Killer expresses surprise that Zoro cut Kaido:
    • Mama is surprised at Zoro cutting Kaido:


The Rest
On the other hand, here's how the Yonkou regarded the attacks of the other Supernova:
  • Kaido previously called Law's Gamma Knife, Kidd's Slam Gibson, and Luffy's Kong Rifle "tricks":
  • He called Killer's Scyther Sonic "vexing":

Given the reactions of the Yonkou, the only on panel Supernova attacks that were capable of dealing significant damage to Kaido were:
  1. Luffy's Red Roc
  2. Zoro's Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki
  3. Luffy's Kong Gatling
  4. Zoro's Hiryuu Kaen


Conclusions
Zoro and Luffy have repeatedly received decisively superior portrayal to their fellow Rooftop Supernova. On several occasions, Oda drove in that as far as offensive prowess went, they were on a different calibre compared to their fellow Supernova. They alone had the ability to properly damage the invincible Kaido. They alone have had their attacks dodged by Kaido.

They are just built different.


Summary
To summarise my claims so far:
  • Luffy and Zoro have been depicted separately from amongst the Rooftop Supernova as the only ones capable of damaging Kaido.
  • This was demonstrated by the exceptional portrayal their attacks received:
    • Luffy
      • Red Roc
      • Kong Gatling
      • Red Hawk
    • Zoro
      • Hiryuu Kaen
      • Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki
  • All the other Supernova attacks were regarded by Kaido as either mere tricks or β€” more notably in the case of Killer's Sonic Scythe β€” "vexing".
  • Kaido has dodged their attacks
    • He dodged Zoro's Hiryuu Kaen
    • He dodged Luffy's Red Hawk
Thank you so much to just take the time to write such long text, you are really comitted to One Piece, much appreciate.

Yes, all true, I find odd that people need this kind of confirmation and is not enough just the reading compression of a panel to get the right information. Oda clearly show Luffy&Zoro having the right tools to damaging Kaido, what a surprise right?
The 2 only character that had a specific traning before the raid, the 2 that have a deep connection to Oden.
We shall see more from this 2 without any doubt, they have the best tools to deal with Kaido. If people cant see that well they are blind,
 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
β€Ž
#13
All of them can damage Kaido with their own unique abilities.
This is exactly opposite of what the story has spent the 10 chapters since 1000 telling us.

All of them are build different. Dont downplay any of our Roof Five!
I mean that Zoro and Luffy are built different from the rest of the Roof Five.

I have the Roof Five above Queen and Jack.
 
#15
Absolutely. Zoro and Luffy are monsters like Kaido and Big Mom. In case of Zoro, it has been highlighted from chapter 1, that he is different =>
The conversation continued in chapter 2 =>
Luffy: A monster, huh?
Coby: That's right, Luffy-san.
Roronoa Zoro is a dreadful man who goes by the title, "Pirate Hunter Zoro."
He's like a wild dog starving for blood.
The man prowls the ocean, sniffing out his next bounty.

People say he's a monster, taking the form of a human.

This is chapter 1 and 2 of One Piece, so Zoro being a monster has been at the core of One Piece. There are many other examples throughout the manga where people called him a beast. I mean this man can survive 30 days without eating, can lift and throw fucking buildings. Note that, Luffy gets the advantage of his devil fruit when it comes to durability, still Nami calls Zoro the toughest strawhat in the future pirate king crew. In addition, there is a strange aura going on when Zoro fights. We have a list of those in the Zoro FC =>

@Cinera @Nidai_Kitetsu @everyone else interested


Afaik this doesn't happen for any other characters, this only happens when Zoro fights. We also saw how this man can grow three times more arms and heads out of thin air in asura mode, lol. How can you compare him to mere mortals? He is just built different, so is Luffy.
 
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Light D Lamperouge

π•Ώπ–π–Š 𝕰𝖆𝖗𝖑
β€Ž
#17
Absolutely. Zoro and Luffy are monsters like Kaido and Big Mom. In case of Zoro, it has been highlighted from chapter 1, that he is different =>
The conversation continued in chapter 2 =>
Luffy: A monster, huh?
Coby: That's right, Luffy-san.
Roronoa Zoro is a dreadful man who goes by the title, "Pirate Hunter Zoro."
He's like a wild dog starving for blood.
The man prowls the ocean, sniffing out his next bounty.

People say he's a monster, taking the form of a human.

This is chapter 1 and 2 of One Piece, so Zoro being a monster has been at the core of One Piece. There are many other examples throughout the manga where people called him a beast. I mean this man can survive 30 days without eating, can lift and throw fucking buildings. Note that, Luffy gets the advantage of his devil fruit when it comes to durability, still Nami calls Zoro the toughest strawhat in the future pirate king crew. In addition, there is a strange aura going on when Zoro fights. We have a list of those in the Zoro FC =>


And this only happens when Zoro fights. We also saw how this man can grow three times more arms and heads to fight, lol. How could you compare him to mere mortals? He is just built different, so is Luffy.
There's the other post too about Zoro being referred to as a monster/beast/demon and exuding a strange aura etc
I've gathered the panels @Cinera talked about. I couldn't find the last one though. If someone can find it I'll gladly put it together with the available ones.
Here they are separated
Here I used the coloured version because it explains the evil aura


Here I stitched them all together

And here I cross checked Stephen Paul's translation for the available panels and put them together



@Haoshoku thanks my dude.​
 

Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 βš›οΈ
β€Ž
#18
Of course yes my dear Cinera.

They have shown the greatest feats all modesty aside.

They have got the best portrayal background to rely on.

I don't find anything strange here, it feels very intuitive to come up with such conclusions.
 
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