Future Events Zoro and Roger? The true nature of Zoro's dream

[Haoshoku]

Nice thread.

If Zoro’s goal had anything to do with Roger that shit would’ve been made known to us from day one. If Roger was a swordsman in the same vein as Mihawk/Zoro not only would that make him the WSS of his time but it would also create an obvious connection to Zoro both of which have never ever been specified/stated anywhere despite being important facts to mention.

I don’t get why some people are running away with the events in the recent chapter and concluding that this somehow has something to do with Zoro’s goal.
Oda is usually credited as someone who brings small details on colorspreads and shit from years prior back into the narrative in a way that blows fans minds wouldn’t be forgetting about a detail as big as Roger being swordsman first, mans was always about the dude who did the impossible by finding Raftel, matching Prime WB in battle and carrying the Will of D etc. Swordsman ain’t anywhere in there.

Tho If we assume that Roger is related to Zoro’s goal and is a swordsman like Zoro/Mihawk, then Oda would be coming out with this after shit 23 years? (Roger appears in chapter 1) Which would make this a glaring plot hole. So yeah Roger ain’t got anything to do with Zoro’s goal.

 

[Zowo]

Nice thread.

If Zoro’s goal had anything to do with Roger that shit would’ve been made known to us from day one. If Roger was a swordsman in the same vein as Mihawk/Zoro not only would that make him the WSS of his time but it would also create an obvious connection to Zoro both of which have never ever been specified/stated anywhere despite being important facts to mention.

I don’t get why some people are running away with the events in the recent chapter and concluding that this somehow has something to do with Zoro’s goal.
Oda is usually credited as someone who brings small details on colorspreads and shit from years prior back into the narrative in a way that blows fans minds wouldn’t be forgetting about a detail as big as Roger being swordsman first, mans was always about the dude who did the impossible by finding Raftel, matching Prime WB in battle and carrying the Will of D etc. Swordsman ain’t anywhere in there.

Tho If we assume that Roger is related to Zoro’s goal and is a swordsman like Zoro/Mihawk, then Oda would be coming out with this after shit 23 years? (Roger appears in chapter 1) Which would make this a glaring plot hole. So yeah Roger ain’t got anything to do with Zoro’s goal.

Ofc roger has nothing to do with zoro
He s dead

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

In the final war.

- Zoro's goal is to be the greatest swordsman that has ever lived.

- In Shounen Manga it's basically granted that the main characters from the story will achieve their goal.

- Roger from what we've seen is a swordsman so by the end of the series Zoro will be greater than him.

- Meaning Zoro will be the strongest swordsman in the history, this means he will be so great that his name reaches the heavens.

Post automatically merged: Dec 22, 2019

Nice thread.

If Zoro’s goal had anything to do with Roger that shit would’ve been made known to us from day one. If Roger was a swordsman in the same vein as Mihawk/Zoro not only would that make him the WSS of his time but it would also create an obvious connection to Zoro both of which have never ever been specified/stated anywhere despite being important facts to mention.

I don’t get why some people are running away with the events in the recent chapter and concluding that this somehow has something to do with Zoro’s goal.
Oda is usually credited as someone who brings small details on colorspreads and shit from years prior back into the narrative in a way that blows fans minds wouldn’t be forgetting about a detail as big as Roger being swordsman first, mans was always about the dude who did the impossible by finding Raftel, matching Prime WB in battle and carrying the Will of D etc. Swordsman ain’t anywhere in there.

Tho If we assume that Roger is related to Zoro’s goal and is a swordsman like Zoro/Mihawk, then Oda would be coming out with this after shit 23 years? (Roger appears in chapter 1) Which would make this a glaring plot hole. So yeah Roger ain’t got anything to do with Zoro’s goal.

That'd mean then that Roger ain't a swordsman but from what we saw last chapter he could easily be regarded as a swordsman.

Remember according to Oda even Fujitora is a swordsman.

 

[Haoshoku]

Ofc roger has nothing to do with zoro
He s dead

Not in that sense...basically some people claiming because Zoro will be the GOAT swordsman, he surpasses Roger as a swordsman when my point is Roger ain’t a swordsman in the same vein.

 

[Sentinel]

Ofc roger has nothing to do with zoro
He s dead

You're missing the point; Ryuma and Oden are dead as well but they are indirectly related on Zoro as well. Something which isn't the case with Roger.

 

[Zowo]

You're missing the point; Ryuma and Oden are dead as well but they are indirectly related on Zoro as well. Something which isn't the case with Roger.

Eos zoro goat>roger

 

[Haoshoku]

That'd mean then that Roger ain't a swordsman but from what we saw last chapter he could easily be regarded as a swordsman.

Remember according to Oda even Fujitora is a swordsman.

I’m not denying he’s a swordsman of some kind based off what we were shown. But for most examples you bring up, they are labeled, specified or portrayed to be swordsman like Zoro/Mihawk. Fujitora was straight up called a swordsman. With Roger you got none of that. No footnote or anything mentioning the fact that he was the WSS of his time if he was the same type of swordsman as Mihawk and the others.

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

I’m not denying he’s a swordsman of some kind based off what we were shown. But for most examples you bring up, they are labeled, specified or portrayed to be swordsman like Zoro/Mihawk. Fujitora was straight up called a swordsman. With Roger you got none of that. No footnote or anything mentioning the fact that he was the WSS of his time if he was the same type of swordsman as Mihawk and the others.

But why does someone need a footnote or anything of the sort to be seen as a swordsman. A swordsman should just be any person who primarily fights using a sword. Not every swordsman is gonna be introduced as a swordsman or samurai. Just look at Shanks, Rayleigh and the bald gorosei guy. All 3 are obviously swordsman but none have been mentioned as swordsman.

 

[comrade]

I think Zoro being the strongest swordsman known to us is the narrative. The problem with the WSS title is, that you are only the strongest at a given point of time. If Mihawk passes away, someone else would receive the WSS title for nuts. So in order to truly demonstrate that you are the best, you have to become known to the world as the greatest. This is why, post Wano, and after turning Enma black, Zoro will be viewed as the successor of Ryuma. Even though that wasn't even his goal. But it will happen automatically.

Plus, there is the problem that Roger has not the slightest renown as a swordsman, nor does he have a black blade. A black blade is for a swordsman imo the same thing as a black belt for a martial artist. It not only demonstrates an incredible level of Haki, but it demonstrates that you mastered your art. If Roger was a swordsman, a swordsman even more powerful than Mihawk, I would expect him to have a black blade. Imo it is absolutely required for the best. And secondly, Oda never even slightly connected Roger to swordsmanship. When renowned swordsmen were a thing before the era of piracy as well (like Wano having strong swordsmen, Ryuma being the sword god).

 

[OmegaPsyche]

Zoro never expressed a desire to be the strongest Swordsman of all time, but I don’t think Oda will care about that. I don’t think he’ll end this manga with it being up in the air who the strongest Swordsman ever is.

For this reason, Oda will make Zoro the strongest Swordsman ever, stronger than Roger.

Spoiler

Based on 966, Mihawk already looks > Roger anyway lol.

Bingo

 

[Haoshoku]

But why does someone need a footnote or anything of the sort to be seen as a swordsman. A swordsman should just be any person who primarily fights using a sword. Not every swordsman is gonna be introduced as a swordsman or samurai. Just look at Shanks, Rayleigh and the bald gorosei guy. All 3 are obviously swordsman but none have been mentioned as swordsman.

We need a footnote because Roger being primarily a swordsman has all sorts of implications for the story. Not only would that make him the WSS of his time, but it would create an obvious connection to Zoro, my point is with Roger being as important as he is why haven’t we gotten anything about him being primarily a swordsman before? You’d figure it’d be important for Oda to have specified that prior in the story because it creates a connection with one of the MCs and his goal..

and true not every swordsman needs an introduction but we talking about Roger, the dude who wanted to turn the world upside down and did the impossible by finding Raftel, not just some run of the mill Samurai in Wano or some random Vice Admiral with a sword.

 

[comrade]

In One Piece, like 90% of the people are using swords. But since this isn't a samurai manga but a pirate manga, I assume that not everyone who picks up a blade, is a swordsman.

Just look at the Marineford war.

Spoiler

Do you think each and every soldier here fulfills Mihawk's definition of a swordsman?

Kawamatsu wanted to equip every warrior with weapons, a lot of which are swords.

Spoiler

You don't need to be a swordsman to wield a sword. It is enough if you are a warrior that can handle a weapon. Most warriors are able to wield different weapons; swords, spears, etc. Same goes for Marines. They are trained in several aspects; martial arts, guns, swords, spears and the sword happens to be the weapon of choice for most. On the other hand, there are of course those in the marines that can be considered swordsmen. Not only Fujitora, but also people like Momonga or those other vice admirals wielding a Katana. Where you can judge by their appearance, their sword and their fighting style, that they are proficient swordsmen.

A swordsman is someone, who dedicates himself to the blade. Like Zoro, who has been honing his skills from childhood in a Dojo that dedicates itself to the blade. Zoro, Vista, Mihawk, all known for honing their swordsmanship since childhood.

Spoiler

It's different for warriors. They are taught in several aspects of combat. Hand to hand, swords, spears, guns, etc. Just look at Kizaru, who predominantly uses lasers and kicks. He was going toe to toe with Rayleigh in swordsmanship. Does that mean he is a swordsman? I don't think so. As a marine he is proficient in different fighting styles.

That's why Roger using a sword does not necessarily mean he is a swordsman. Roger is able to use a sword, he might be able to use other weapons (like he was seen using a gun), he might be proficient in hand to hand combat. But he doesn't dedicate himself to the sword. He wasn't even seen wearing a sword when he met Rayleigh, and at this point he was already a grown man.

 

[nik87]

I think Zoro will demonstrate the pinnacle of his strength against Mihawk which should happen after the final war.
It makes no sense that Zoro encounters a harder challenge in final war after surpassing Mihawk, for example against Gorosei.

I don't think Oda would leave us in the doubt who was the greatest WSS of all times. I don't think he will draw an amazing fight between Zoro and Mihawk and then say/hint that Ryuma or Roger were even greater, I think he wants to show the greatest on panel instead of saying that we will never see what greatest looks like.

I dont think that Roger matters here at all. A dead person can never be Zoro's target because there is no way to directly prove himself against a dead person. I think that the greatest fight between swordsmen ever will be the fight between Zoro and Mihawk.

 

[Sentinel]

Zoro never expressed a desire to be the strongest Swordsman of all time, but I don’t think Oda will care about that. I don’t think he’ll end this manga with it being up in the air who the strongest Swordsman ever is.

For this reason, Oda will make Zoro the strongest Swordsman ever, stronger than Roger.

Spoiler

Based on 966, Mihawk already looks > Roger anyway lol.

Admiral senpai, abandon this alliance as long as it is not too late before they even start disrespecting the Admirals. They're already starting with EOS Zoro > Roger. If they find something to wank Zoro even more, they'll even say Mihawk > Akainu. Just believe me. :yasu:

 

[stormylife]

We need a footnote because Roger being primarily a swordsman has all sorts of implications for the story. Not only would that make him the WSS of his time, but it would create an obvious connection to Zoro, my point is with Roger being as important as he is why haven’t we gotten anything about him being primarily a swordsman before? You’d figure it’d be important for Oda to have specified that prior in the story because it creates a connection with one of the MCs and his goal..

and true not every swordsman needs an introduction but we talking about Roger, the dude who wanted to turn the world upside down and did the impossible by finding Raftel, not just some run of the mill Samurai in Wano or some random Vice Admiral with a sword.

Roger never ever been highlighted for his fighting style. Not for his fists like garp , not for his df like wb and not for his haki etc etc. its just people were expecting to see someone like luffy but they found someone more like zoro on fighting style. That what makes people upset.He just turned the world upside down already with the last chapter.

 

[Haoshoku]

Roger never ever been highlighted for his fighting style. Not for his fists like garp , not for his df like wb and not for his haki etc etc. its just people were expecting to see someone like luffy but they found someone more like zoro on fighting style. That what makes people upset.He just turned the world upside down already with the last chapter.

Nah I think his fighting style so far is straight as a fan ain’t got a problem with it, the way he shrugged off Oden and clashed with Whitebeard was neat. Plus when he was shown with a sword the second time in the canon material (Rox silhoutte) I was already expecting his sword being a feature in his fighting style. But all of this has nothing to do with Zoro’s end goal though because Roger ain’t ever been highlighted as that type of swordsman who falls under Zoro’s WSS narrative or otherwise it would have been made evident before because of how important he is. That’s all I’m saying

 

[Buggy D Clown]

Nah I think his fighting style so far is straight as a fan ain’t got a problem with it, the way he shrugged off Oden and clashed with Whitebeard was neat. Plus when he was shown with a sword the second time in the canon material (Rox silhoutte) I was already expecting his sword being a feature in his fighting style. But all of this has nothing to do with Zoro’s end goal though because Roger ain’t ever been highlighted as that type of swordsman who falls under Zoro’s WSS narrative or otherwise it would have been made evident before because of how important he is. That’s all I’m saying

Zoro's WSS narrative is - there is a guy with a sword, I can not allow my self to be weaker than him. Roger doesn't fall under it because he is dead and for no other reason in the Manga so far but Roger's style certainty falls under it given the information we have so far if Cabji's does.

 

[stormylife]

Nah I think his fighting style so far is straight as a fan ain’t got a problem with it, the way he shrugged off Oden and clashed with Whitebeard was neat. Plus when he was shown with a sword the second time in the canon material (Rox silhoutte) I was already expecting his sword being a feature in his fighting style. But all of this has nothing to do with Zoro’s end goal though because Roger ain’t ever been highlighted as that type of swordsman who falls under Zoro’s WSS narrative or otherwise it would have been made evident before because of how important he is. That’s all I’m saying

Ofc he has nothing to do with zoro's end goal . But its not bec of Zoro's narrative of wss and swordsmen . He is just simply dead.

And i have rights to say POSSIBILITY of both Zoro and mihawk may end up stronger than Roger. Gap between baratie zoro and mihawk is far greater than gap between mihawk and roger. if zoro can catch up mihawk in power , mihawk also can catch up a dead person in power. its all up to Oda and imo he wants to end his manga more fierce than old era

What makes Roger exceptional isnt his power and fighting style but what he accomplished in piracy. Pirates are after the treasure which he left at Laugh Tale, not after his individual strenght to surpass.

Roger may be surpassed in individual strenght but still there will be only one Pk which is the most important case in manga

 

[HeroesNZ]

Zoro doesn't give a flying fuck about Roger. He doesn't even give a shit about surpassing Ryuuma. All Zoro cares about is being WSS, and that means surpassing Mihawk.

However.

This is a shounen. Zoro will be the strongest swordsman to have ever lived. Why do we know this? Because he's been consistently paralleled with Ryuuma, a man hyped as the sword god. Therefore, by performing feats nobody has done, Zoro will be hyped as the new sword god.

Guess what? Luffy doesn't give a flying fuck about Roger either. But this is a shounen and we know that Luffy will surpass him by achieving what Roger never could. The two are related through parallels. Roger has absolutely nothing to do with Zoro. Ryuuma represents Zoro's Roger. Whether Zoro surpasses Roger or not depends on how strong Ryuuma was. That's all there is to it.

 

[Haoshoku]

Roger doesn't fall under it because he is dead

Roger being dead wouldn’t matter if Zoro ends up as the GOAT swordsman does it?

But this is moreso because it was never specified/stated that Roger is swordsman first like a Mihawk, Vista, Zoro, etc are. With Cabaji, the dude straight up called himself a swordsman.
Again I ain’t questioning his style that was displayed I’m saying that if Roger was all about swordsmanship like Mihawk/Zoro that shit would’ve been made clear because that has big implications for the story. For instance it would have made him the WSS of his time, which is an important detail that Oda would have obviously stated before.

Yet we find nothing of the sort which indicates that he wasn’t all about that and may have mixed his swordsmanship up with something else (this has yet to be seen just saying it though).

But my point remains; one sequence of him fighting using swordsmanship while the rest was offpaneled isn’t changing anything when it comes to Zoro’s goal, which is surpassing Mihawk and everything that comes with that, Roger has nothing to do with this, he didn’t before and will not now.

Roger may be surpassed in individual strenght

That’s not the point, Zoro could very well surpass Roger depending on how far Oda goes with EoS scaling, the issue arises when you connect Zoro’s WSS ambition with Roger.

Post automatically merged: Dec 22, 2019

This is a shounen

Pretty much all that needs to be said, some people can try and wiggle around it but when its all said and done the upper echelon of the Straw Hats, especially Luffy/Zoro are going to surpass alot of past figures not only because the narrative demands it for obvious reasons but because thats just how most Shonen end, with the MCs ending up at the top of their respective verses, we've seen it with Naruto, Bleach, etc. One Piece is not different in this regard