I agree completely with your post. Zoro might surpass Roger in theory, but he has no connection with him, and I doubt anyone in-verse will ever draw one. We’ll definitely hear about Zoro surpassing Mihawk in the story, but I don’t think anyone will ever explicitly compare him and Roger. That’s saved for Luffy.
Future Events Zoro and Roger? The true nature of Zoro's dream
- Thread starter Den_Den_Mushi
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What are you even on about?
You asked if it's possible, not if it's going to happen. Stop shifting the point.
The original point was there are ways to surpass those who you can't fight, AKA dead people (Ryuma, Roger).
To which you asked if it's possible to surpass Mihawk without defeating him, to which the answer is obviously yes. Yes Immalvanom it is possible to surpass a character without having to defeat them. Did you really believe otherwise lmao?
Now is that how Zoro will surpass Mihawk? Not likely since he has the direct option to defeat him straight up, in the case of Ryuma and co he doesn't. So he can surpass them through traditional means of simply achieving greater feats. Hate to break it to you bud but there is more than 1 way to surpass an individual. Try and wrap your head around that, seems to be more complicated than it should be.
You asked if it's possible, not if it's going to happen. Stop shifting the point.
The original point was there are ways to surpass those who you can't fight, AKA dead people (Ryuma, Roger).
To which you asked if it's possible to surpass Mihawk without defeating him, to which the answer is obviously yes. Yes Immalvanom it is possible to surpass a character without having to defeat them. Did you really believe otherwise lmao?
Now is that how Zoro will surpass Mihawk? Not likely since he has the direct option to defeat him straight up, in the case of Ryuma and co he doesn't. So he can surpass them through traditional means of simply achieving greater feats. Hate to break it to you bud but there is more than 1 way to surpass an individual. Try and wrap your head around that, seems to be more complicated than it should be.
Zoro does not need any connections with Roger to be able to surpass him.
Zoro will end up stronger than Katakuri or Marco but he has no connections with them.
Concerning the « Roger is a swordsman or not », it is just the Shanks’ debate all over again with different excuses. The truth is, no top tiers are allowed to be swordsmen no matter what is shown or said about them. Even if Roger end up having a black blade by the end of his journey and is called a swordsman some people will still deny that he is one. Because all this have nothing to do with facts:
-Fuji was called a swordsman by Oda but they denied he is one.
-Shanks has several fights with Mihawk and is his rival, he is always shown with a sword in his hand when fighting but people denied that he is one
-Rayleigh was denied of being a swordsman because of one kick
Throught the years people have come up with a shit ton of excuses or concept to try to deny top tiers of being swordsmen. And now even after seeing a guy fought his strongest rival and and his equal with a sword they keep denying that it is a swordsman.
If Roger is not a swordsman, no one is.
Zoro will end up stronger than Katakuri or Marco but he has no connections with them.
Concerning the « Roger is a swordsman or not », it is just the Shanks’ debate all over again with different excuses. The truth is, no top tiers are allowed to be swordsmen no matter what is shown or said about them. Even if Roger end up having a black blade by the end of his journey and is called a swordsman some people will still deny that he is one. Because all this have nothing to do with facts:
-Fuji was called a swordsman by Oda but they denied he is one.
-Shanks has several fights with Mihawk and is his rival, he is always shown with a sword in his hand when fighting but people denied that he is one
-Rayleigh was denied of being a swordsman because of one kick
Throught the years people have come up with a shit ton of excuses or concept to try to deny top tiers of being swordsmen. And now even after seeing a guy fought his strongest rival and and his equal with a sword they keep denying that it is a swordsman.
If Roger is not a swordsman, no one is.
what we have seen from roger in the recent chapter is his swordmanship
and unlike newgate we havent seen anything else. If people are willing to bet roger has another fighting style that takes more precedence over his sword I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Time will tell who was right about both roger and shanks. Its this same argument all over again.
using advanced armament or having conquerors haki does not mean one is not a master swordsman.
hyogoro has adv coa and was able to do so without a sword. still a samurai/swordsman
in the same vain you can consider rayleigh a swordsman .
fujitora df, still a swordsman.
oden , coc, still a swordsman.
D: What's the name of Red-Haired Shanks's sword? -P.N. Kooshi
O: Right. It's called "Gryphon." Shanks appeared in the first episode, but I had no clue how he was going to fight, you know?
and unlike newgate we havent seen anything else. If people are willing to bet roger has another fighting style that takes more precedence over his sword I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Time will tell who was right about both roger and shanks. Its this same argument all over again.
using advanced armament or having conquerors haki does not mean one is not a master swordsman.
hyogoro has adv coa and was able to do so without a sword. still a samurai/swordsman
in the same vain you can consider rayleigh a swordsman .
fujitora df, still a swordsman.
oden , coc, still a swordsman.
D: What's the name of Red-Haired Shanks's sword? -P.N. Kooshi
O: Right. It's called "Gryphon." Shanks appeared in the first episode, but I had no clue how he was going to fight, you know?
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I am not claiming Zoro's goal will change nor that he will surpass Roger, I said years ago that Oda needs to specifically state that Roger was the WSS of his time or the strongest swordsman of all time for Zoro's EoS strength to change to >= Roger.
All I'm saying is people are deciding on who has the right type of swordsmanship on nothing more than who they don't want Zoro to be stronger than. Nowhere in the Manga do we have even something close to an implication that what Roger did isn't the right type of swordsmanship for WSS especially when something like Cabaji's style is.
All I'm saying is people are deciding on who has the right type of swordsmanship on nothing more than who they don't want Zoro to be stronger than. Nowhere in the Manga do we have even something close to an implication that what Roger did isn't the right type of swordsmanship for WSS especially when something like Cabaji's style is.
Assuming that Roger has another fighting style is pure headcannon as of now.
Based of what we have seen so far, Roger being a swordsmanship is best bet..but insecurity among some people's is hilarious.
Also, zoro never had goal to surpass Roger because Roger died long time ago. It's mihawk who sits on top of all swordsmen in presence time and thus Zoro goal has been to surpass him. Even his dream isn't the same as that of other pirates that is to get one piece.
Did Luffy whose dream is to become pk and get one piece shown any intention to surpass Roger? No..so using such argument to say zoro can't surpass Roger is absurd.
Based of what we have seen so far, Roger being a swordsmanship is best bet..but insecurity among some people's is hilarious.
Also, zoro never had goal to surpass Roger because Roger died long time ago. It's mihawk who sits on top of all swordsmen in presence time and thus Zoro goal has been to surpass him. Even his dream isn't the same as that of other pirates that is to get one piece.
Did Luffy whose dream is to become pk and get one piece shown any intention to surpass Roger? No..so using such argument to say zoro can't surpass Roger is absurd.
H
I think we agree for the most part then. The whole deal with what makes up swordsmanship/swordsman, I beat that topic to death on Oj, already familiar with all yalls points and basically am on the same spectrum with the people who hold Shanks, Law, Fujitora, Rayleigh etc as swordsmen. Roger is a swordsman based off what he showed and falls under that spectrum (based off what he has shown), not arguing that.
Just that we ain’t got anything on him being a swordsman if it was that important not that what he showed =\ swordsmanship, it is. With dudes like Mihawk and co, its upfront, specified and explained. With Roger we got none of that. Thats basically my point without tryna repeat everything.
This ain’t where I’m coming from though. I already said Zoro could be >= Roger come EoS just going off the nature of battle shonen alone and depending on how far Oda goes with the cast, its very well within the realm of possibility that EoS Zoro >= Roger and we already know Luffy will surpass Roger without a doubt, Zoro is not that far behind from Luffy generally, therefore it makes sense for it to end that way when its all said and done.
Just that we ain’t got anything on him being a swordsman if it was that important not that what he showed =\ swordsmanship, it is. With dudes like Mihawk and co, its upfront, specified and explained. With Roger we got none of that. Thats basically my point without tryna repeat everything.
This ain’t where I’m coming from though. I already said Zoro could be >= Roger come EoS just going off the nature of battle shonen alone and depending on how far Oda goes with the cast, its very well within the realm of possibility that EoS Zoro >= Roger and we already know Luffy will surpass Roger without a doubt, Zoro is not that far behind from Luffy generally, therefore it makes sense for it to end that way when its all said and done.
Nothing connects Zoro to Roger because Roger is dead which is why footnotes are required.
I agree
Many people are picking and choosing based on nothing, sorry if I assumed you were doing the same.
Same people that are fine with calling Shiryu a swordsman in regards to WSS are questioning if Rayleigh is a swordsman. From that it's clear that they are picking and choosing simply based on who they are fine with Zoro being > than.
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I agree
Many people are picking and choosing based on nothing, sorry if I assumed you were doing the same.
Same people that are fine with calling Shiryu a swordsman in regards to WSS are questioning if Rayleigh is a swordsman. From that it's clear that they are picking and choosing simply based on who they are fine with Zoro being > than.
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Pretty sure it means strength-wise in that talk. If you think Mihawk is above Roger, your losing argument to convince anyone. Oda put it verbally and clearly WSS is nothing like PK otherwise Mihawk wouldn't be stop by YCs easily compare to Roger who just steamrolled over Oden who was YC1-YC2 to get to WB. While crew is important to help reach PK, it's more about strength lvl as well and not just crew. He be danger to anyone in a fight, not his crew really.
Nothing indicates that. Where did I say or imply that I think Mihawk is above Roger?
You are comparing totally different characters and situations.
Nothing in the story has stated PK is only about strength level. It's about getting to the final island which requires all the things I stated.
Kuma thinking possible future WSS is a fair trade for possible future PK is more telling than your headcanon.
You are comparing totally different characters and situations.
Nothing in the story has stated PK is only about strength level. It's about getting to the final island which requires all the things I stated.
Kuma thinking possible future WSS is a fair trade for possible future PK is more telling than your headcanon.
Yes it does. Power is everything for PK as you can't be one being weak by yourself as I get other qualities, but being powerful yourself is qualified and Roger display that.
Nah, he just respect his pride than going after an downed opponent. Wasn't about he saw Zoro more dangerous than Luffy. What stupid headcannon are you on? Learn to accept your losing facts here and that Oda never stated anything WSS is above all when the WSS got stopped and even with YCs who are under a man who was equal to PK. Your pushing too much on something that is daydream.
Nah, he just respect his pride than going after an downed opponent. Wasn't about he saw Zoro more dangerous than Luffy. What stupid headcannon are you on? Learn to accept your losing facts here and that Oda never stated anything WSS is above all when the WSS got stopped and even with YCs who are under a man who was equal to PK. Your pushing too much on something that is daydream.
