Powers & Abilities Zoro Could Use Ryuo Before Enma

(Poll questions are in the OP)

  • Q1: Yes

  • Q1: No

  • Q2: Yes

  • Q2: No

  • Q3: Yes

  • Q3: No

  • Q4: Yes

  • Q4: No

Results are only viewable after voting.
J

Jo_Ndule

#41
#41
Zoro D Goat said:
There are many different levels of Ryou.
We can see that Luffy is trying to use Armament Haki and what he is trying to learn is not "normal Armament Haki", but that is greater to the normal Armament Haki.

We can see it here that Luffy refers to what Rayleigh used as an advanced version of the normal Haki he has been using this entire time. Basically an invisible armor.

Here's the different translation of the same chapter.

Right here we can see Luffy theorizing that if he learns this application of Haki/Ryou this advanced version of Haki/Ryou, he can bypass Kaido's tough scales.

Then Hyou comes and starts asking about Haki, he states that here in Wano we call what you call Haki, Ryou. He points out that swordsmen use Haki/Ryou to cut what they want to cut and not cut what they do not want to cut, then he states he was known as mighty swordsman back in the day and might know that technique Luffy is referring to.

Here's the better visual of Hyo's words in chapter 939.

We can see here Hyou performs the application of Ryou that Luffy was referring to. Mind you that this is an application of Ryou, a more advanced type of Ryou, and not just Ryou which is Haki (Armament Haki specifically) in Wano.

We can see here, that Hyou refers to Ryou as Haki in this panel. Similar to how Skypieans calling Observation Haki as Mantra in Skypiea. And start teaching Luffy this specific application of Ryou.

In this panel we can see Luffy performing something different than that of what Hyou was teaching him, and that this is not what Rayleigh used on the elephant.

Hyou is surprised that Luffy used what he used, and is filled with tremendous amounts of confidence in Luffy, again that just a minute ago he was ready to die and was out of hope. Now as soon as Luffy used this power, he is confident in that Luffy, (Luffy told him about how Big Mom is equivalent to Kaido and that she is an emperor in chapter 946) with his new power, can stop Big Mom. But unluckily for Luffy, he could not remember how he pulled off that move as of now.

Here Hyou refers to what he has been teaching Luffy as an application of Ryou that is superior to that of normal Armament Haki. But he states in his words that the power that Luffy used is a much more advanced/more powerful than the thing he has been teaching Luffy.

Hyou then explains the different forms of Advanced versions of Armament Haki, he states that what he can teach of Haki, or the application of Haki that he has been teaching Luffy is that which you cover your black armament in a Haki field, he stated that it can be used as both defense and offense and is very effective, it hits the enemy with emitting the Haki from the body outwards. But he states that when you go a level above that, instead of just pushing the Haki out and hitting the person, you can infuse into the enemy and destroy them from within. He states that this is much more powerful than the application that he was teaching Luffy all along.

As you can see here, he tells Luffy that he broke the collars from within by Luffy's haki, he tells Luffy that if he can use that level of Haki, then he basically already knows how to use the application he was teaching him all along since to infuse Haki inside out of an opponent, you need to first know how to infuse yourself with outward Haki. But that Luffy already did it unconsciously.

After Luffy's training we can see Luffy showing off that he has now the ability to destroy things without touching, and emitting Haki outwards, the application of Haki/Ryou Hyou was teaching him.

And in this chapter we can see Luffy destroying the cuffs of Yamato from within, and emitting his Haki inside out. Basically showing us that Luffy is now capable of doing this more advanced version of Armament Haki.

So basically in conclusion there are 3 known levels of Armament Haki/Ryou

Level 1 - Normal Armament Haki/Ryou that Luffy used most of post time skip

This is basically the lowest level of Armament Haki, it used by essentially anyone who knows Armament Haki. It increases your defense and offense more. Swordsmen use this Haki to cut what they need to and not cut what they do not want to, Zoro basically showed us a glimpse of Armament Haki usage pre-TS (Breath Of All Things), but sadly he states he couldn't do it again until time-skip. We see that he could not cut Enel or Aokiji, but if he was able to use Armament Haki again he could at least hit them. So we could say that Zoro did not use any form of Haki pre-timeskip.

Level 2 - Emission of Haki/Ryou also can be referred to as Advanced Ryou/Flowing Haki

This is the application of Ryou that Hyou was trying to teach Luffy, and also what Luffy referred to as Advanced Armament Haki and what Rayleigh first used. This allows the user to emit Haki with no medium, so basically you can hit someone without using your fist. This is stated by Hyou that it increases you defense and offense tremendously. This form of Haki allows you to bypass tough defense that normal Armament Haki can't, like Big Mom's skin or Kaido's tough scales. But as as seen in chapter 993, you need the strength to back this skill or else your cuts/punches will be took weak even if it bypasses the tough defense.

Level 3 - Emitting Haki/Ryou inside an opponent/object, and destroy them inside out. The highest level of Armament Haki/Ryou, (more advanced version of Ryou/Haki) or some of you might called it "Internal Destruction Haki"

So this Haki is the application of Ryou that Luffy used to break the collars and Hyo's and also Yamato's cuffs. Rayleigh also used this pre-TS to remove Camie's collar. This is taking the emitted Haki from stage two and emitting it inside an opponent/object and destroying them inside out. It is stated to be much more powerful than stage by Hyou, and gave someone as old as Hyo enough confidence in Luffy stopping a Yonko equivalent to Kaido that he himself knows the strength of. (In order to know this level of Haki, you need to learn level 2 Armament Haki first).

For Zoro's cases








All of these above are demonstration of Haki. Zoro talking about how hard a black blade is. Zoro sensing falling objects are a glimpse of what Haki is but he couldn't grasp it until post-timeskip. Zoro didn't cut Monet because he wasn't using Haki. Zoro cuts through Pica's FBH because Zoro's haki is superior to his. Zoro tamed Enma because of his better haki control, etc. Zoro definitely have normal Armament Haki/Ryou before he got Enma. Enma basically improves Zoro's haki even more.
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Well said
 
WesMidnight

WesMidnight

‎
#42
#42
Cinera said:
  • The Scabbards only used hardening for their final attack
  • Zoro's haki is much stronger than them

Roger and Whitebeard had the overflowing hardening:



We didn't see Zoro's sword when he slashed Monet, we just saw the flying slash cut her
Ryuo can be used without hardening



  • Zoro explicitly needed to train to be able to even use Enma at all.
    • His first time using Enma he cut a cliff while trying to cut a bamboo.
  • Enma was a nerf when Zoro picked it up.
  • Successfully acclimatising to it would make him stronger:
    • Zoro just hasn't fully adapted to it.
      • His first named technique with Enma, he didn't use any hardening at all on any of his swords
      • His second named technique was an Ittoryu technique with overflowing hardening
      • His third named technique was a Santoryu technique with all swords hardened, but overflowing hardening present on only Enma

The idea that Enma just flat made Zoro stronger isn't at all based in the manga.
Click to expand...
Kiku's hand stab is a better feat of ryuo than a failed onigiri group attack. Of course Zoro's hardening is better than the scabbards, doesn't mean his ryuo is better or on the same level, Sanji has better CoO range than Luffy but he has FS.

If Enma is still an overall nerf, he is a fucking retard for not using another sword and having to learn how to use it still, it's not though so it's fine.

No ryou trail from the scabbards, it's an inconsistent stylistic choice. Micro analysing and cherry picking panels that favor your argument while ignoring ones that don't isn't productive for me, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Extravlad said:
Zoro is not using Internal Destruction bullshit.

Zoro wants to be able to cut everything.

Not to damage Kaido from the inside cause he can't succeed at cutting his scales..

Internal Destruction is a cope out, it makes you ignore Kaido's scales and lets you damage him even if you can't get past them in the first place

Zoro's dream is to be the best swordsman, he has to be able to cut EVERYTHING, internal destruction is NOT something fits for his character personality and fighting style.
Click to expand...
Barrier haki "bypasses" Kaido's scales and "get's past" them the same whether you use a fist or a blade.

I'm sure in your world "real men" would use fully pure force to overcome the scales, not rely on haki bullshit at all, unfortunately it is impossible, so Luffy and Zoro have to cuck out and use ryuo.

Internal destruction is used to overcome REGENERATION not DEFENSE in an enemy like Kaido. Luffy thought barrier ryuo was all he would need initially and didn't even know about internal destruction properly.
 
Garps tekkai

Garps tekkai

‎
#47
#47
Cinera said:
The other attacks were ordinary Barrier COA
Click to expand...
Can't be the case. His fists made direct physical contact with Kaido's body and face, there was no barrier inbetween. Those actually cannot be barrier haki moves, because of that. Spotting Barrier haki moves is probably even the simplest task, cause we can spot it even w/o a new attack name or the overflowing haki visual, because of the actual barrier visual that gets used for them.
Edit: No front against you with that ".. is probably even the simplest task.."-line. Really just saying that it's prolly going to be that easy.
Oblivion said:
Oda is really vague about when advanced Haki is being used and which type
Click to expand...
I get where you are coming from, but I think it's not going to be that difficult to recognize. We get it via circumstancial evidence (cutting Monet or Kaido- stuff like that), the barrier haki visual, potential name changes and/or the overflowing haki visual.
For Zoro:
If he uses haki, his blades are hardened and Enma is overflown with haki, if he uses Enma's quirk for more AP (obviously).
For Luffy:
non CoA attacks: Fist makes physical contact, no overflowing haki, normal attack name, not really effective against Kaido
advCoAlvl1/barrier: Fist makes no physical contact, cause the barrier does (+ potential attack name change and overflowing haki visual)
advCoAlvl2: Fist makes physical contact again (+ potential attack name change and overflowing haki visual), very effective against Kaido
But I also need more info on all those. Right now I can only say when it's not used.

But yeah, it doesn't help that two of the shown new moves that were based on those "new" haki concepts had a fire theme: Red Roc and Flying Dragon Blaze. That made it look more confusing than it probably will be.
nik87 said:
I think they were all with internal destruction.
Click to expand...
Why though? Nothing was diferent about them in comparison to normal Boundman moves. "Kong Rilfe" and "Kong Gatling" were just the ones that were still missing.
Cinera said:
I prefer the more straightforward assumption of Red Roc being amped by internal destruction COA (as shown by Kaido's rattled skull).
Click to expand...
And it's obviously the case. Kid and Zoro even commented on it. And it can't be barrier haki, because hist fist again made physical contact with Kaido's face. There was no actual barrier inbetween.
nik87 said:
What's your explanation for him not using it?
Click to expand...
Wasn't @me, but you can ask this about everything that happened there. Why does Kaido turn into his plot device dragon form again, if he enters hybrid form a minute later anyway. Probably because everyone could get some feats this way. Before he actually starts to beat their asses and before Luffy and Zoro aswell (that dragon blaze dodge) deal too much damage to him, even though the real fight has not even started yet (vs Hybrid [/awakened form] Kaido).
Look at what Red Roc did to him and then take a look at the Kong Gun in 1001 for example. It was 100% a normal Kong Gun aswell.
 
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Oblivion

Oblivion

‎
#48
#48
Garps tekkai said:
I get where you are coming from, but I think it's not going to be that difficult to recognize. We get it via circumstancial evidence (cutting Monet or Kaido- stuff like that), the barrier haki visual, potential name changes and/or the overflowing haki visual.
For Zoro:
If he uses haki, his blades are hardened and Enma is overflown with haki, if he uses Enma's quirk for more AP (obviously).
For Luffy:
non CoA attacks: Fist makes physical contact, no overflowing haki, normal attack name, not really effective against Kaido
advCoAlvl1/barrier: Fist makes no physical contact, cause the barrier does (+ potential attack name change and overflowing haki visual)
advCoAlvl2: Fist makes physical contact again (+ potential attack name change and overflowing haki visual), very effective against Kaido
But I also need more info on all those. Right now I can only say when it's not used.

But yeah, it doesn't help that two of the shown new moves that were based on those "new" haki concepts had a fire theme: Red Roc and Flying Dragon Blaze. That made it look more confusing than it probably will be.
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I see what you’re saying and you’re right but I wish it was more explicit like hardening
 
J

Jo_Ndule

#50
#50
stairs-kun said:
This is also an application of ryuo. Further proving Zoro had ryuo before enma. Zoro was capable of FLOWING his haki back into his arm, despite the strong pull effect. This shows Zoro had great control of his haki flow. Luffy could barely get his haki to move around this point.
Click to expand...
Anyone has ryuo lol

Enma takes haki from the user

You guys confusing Barrier/repel haki (Ryuo advanced) and normal haki (ryuo)

Zoro has never shown barrier/|repel before
Emission ? Yes.
 
nik87

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
‎
#53
#53
Garps tekkai said:
Why though? Nothing was diferent about them in comparison to normal Boundman moves. "Kong Rilfe" and "Kong Gatling" were just the ones that were still missing.
Click to expand...
There was something different. He was able to hurt Kaido which he couldnt do without it.
Garps tekkai said:
Wasn't @me, but you can ask this about everything that happened there. Why does Kaido turn into his plot device dragon form again, if he enters hybrid form a minute later anyway. Probably because everyone could get some feats this way. Before he actually starts to beat their asses and before Luffy and Zoro aswell (that dragon blaze dodge) deal too much damage to him, even though the real fight has not even started yet (vs Hybrid [/awakened form] Kaido).
Look at what Red Roc did to him and then take a look at the Kong Gun in 1001 for example. It was 100% a normal Kong Gun aswell.
Click to expand...
Normal Kong Gun wasnt able to hurt him back in ch923.
The way how Luffy's fights work is that he delivers tons of hits to his enemy, you can already see it.
He has hit Kaido countless times already while others hit him 2 times.
The others are too lethal compared to Luffy, aside from Kidd who looks worst for now.

For that trend to continue, Luffy cant suddenly pull something far more effective when he already delivered effective punches.
If he were to do it, his number of hits would decrease and that's not what you want to do with a MC.
Due to his attacks being the most ineffective ones, he gets to hit Kaido the most, Kidd aside...
On the other hand, Red Roc wasnt that impressive either but we will see how it ends up.
 
CbShadow

CbShadow

‎
#54
#54
Zoro D Goat said:
There are many different levels of Ryou.
We can see that Luffy is trying to use Armament Haki and what he is trying to learn is not "normal Armament Haki", but that is greater to the normal Armament Haki.

We can see it here that Luffy refers to what Rayleigh used as an advanced version of the normal Haki he has been using this entire time. Basically an invisible armor.

Here's the different translation of the same chapter.

Right here we can see Luffy theorizing that if he learns this application of Haki/Ryou this advanced version of Haki/Ryou, he can bypass Kaido's tough scales.

Then Hyou comes and starts asking about Haki, he states that here in Wano we call what you call Haki, Ryou. He points out that swordsmen use Haki/Ryou to cut what they want to cut and not cut what they do not want to cut, then he states he was known as mighty swordsman back in the day and might know that technique Luffy is referring to.

Here's the better visual of Hyo's words in chapter 939.

We can see here Hyou performs the application of Ryou that Luffy was referring to. Mind you that this is an application of Ryou, a more advanced type of Ryou, and not just Ryou which is Haki (Armament Haki specifically) in Wano.

We can see here, that Hyou refers to Ryou as Haki in this panel. Similar to how Skypieans calling Observation Haki as Mantra in Skypiea. And start teaching Luffy this specific application of Ryou.

In this panel we can see Luffy performing something different than that of what Hyou was teaching him, and that this is not what Rayleigh used on the elephant.

Hyou is surprised that Luffy used what he used, and is filled with tremendous amounts of confidence in Luffy, again that just a minute ago he was ready to die and was out of hope. Now as soon as Luffy used this power, he is confident in that Luffy, (Luffy told him about how Big Mom is equivalent to Kaido and that she is an emperor in chapter 946) with his new power, can stop Big Mom. But unluckily for Luffy, he could not remember how he pulled off that move as of now.

Here Hyou refers to what he has been teaching Luffy as an application of Ryou that is superior to that of normal Armament Haki. But he states in his words that the power that Luffy used is a much more advanced/more powerful than the thing he has been teaching Luffy.

Hyou then explains the different forms of Advanced versions of Armament Haki, he states that what he can teach of Haki, or the application of Haki that he has been teaching Luffy is that which you cover your black armament in a Haki field, he stated that it can be used as both defense and offense and is very effective, it hits the enemy with emitting the Haki from the body outwards. But he states that when you go a level above that, instead of just pushing the Haki out and hitting the person, you can infuse into the enemy and destroy them from within. He states that this is much more powerful than the application that he was teaching Luffy all along.

As you can see here, he tells Luffy that he broke the collars from within by Luffy's haki, he tells Luffy that if he can use that level of Haki, then he basically already knows how to use the application he was teaching him all along since to infuse Haki inside out of an opponent, you need to first know how to infuse yourself with outward Haki. But that Luffy already did it unconsciously.

After Luffy's training we can see Luffy showing off that he has now the ability to destroy things without touching, and emitting Haki outwards, the application of Haki/Ryou Hyou was teaching him.

And in this chapter we can see Luffy destroying the cuffs of Yamato from within, and emitting his Haki inside out. Basically showing us that Luffy is now capable of doing this more advanced version of Armament Haki.

So basically in conclusion there are 3 known levels of Armament Haki/Ryou

Level 1 - Normal Armament Haki/Ryou that Luffy used most of post time skip

This is basically the lowest level of Armament Haki, it used by essentially anyone who knows Armament Haki. It increases your defense and offense more. Swordsmen use this Haki to cut what they need to and not cut what they do not want to, Zoro basically showed us a glimpse of Armament Haki usage pre-TS (Breath Of All Things), but sadly he states he couldn't do it again until time-skip. We see that he could not cut Enel or Aokiji, but if he was able to use Armament Haki again he could at least hit them. So we could say that Zoro did not use any form of Haki pre-timeskip.

Level 2 - Emission of Haki/Ryou also can be referred to as Advanced Ryou/Flowing Haki

This is the application of Ryou that Hyou was trying to teach Luffy, and also what Luffy referred to as Advanced Armament Haki and what Rayleigh first used. This allows the user to emit Haki with no medium, so basically you can hit someone without using your fist. This is stated by Hyou that it increases you defense and offense tremendously. This form of Haki allows you to bypass tough defense that normal Armament Haki can't, like Big Mom's skin or Kaido's tough scales. But as as seen in chapter 993, you need the strength to back this skill or else your cuts/punches will be took weak even if it bypasses the tough defense.

Level 3 - Emitting Haki/Ryou inside an opponent/object, and destroy them inside out. The highest level of Armament Haki/Ryou, (more advanced version of Ryou/Haki) or some of you might called it "Internal Destruction Haki"

So this Haki is the application of Ryou that Luffy used to break the collars and Hyo's and also Yamato's cuffs. Rayleigh also used this pre-TS to remove Camie's collar. This is taking the emitted Haki from stage two and emitting it inside an opponent/object and destroying them inside out. It is stated to be much more powerful than stage by Hyou, and gave someone as old as Hyo enough confidence in Luffy stopping a Yonko equivalent to Kaido that he himself knows the strength of. (In order to know this level of Haki, you need to learn level 2 Armament Haki first).

For Zoro's cases








All of these above are demonstration of Haki. Zoro talking about how hard a black blade is. Zoro sensing falling objects are a glimpse of what Haki is but he couldn't grasp it until post-timeskip. Zoro didn't cut Monet because he wasn't using Haki. Zoro cuts through Pica's FBH because Zoro's haki is superior to his. Zoro tamed Enma because of his better haki control, etc. Zoro definitely have normal Armament Haki/Ryou before he got Enma. Enma basically improves Zoro's haki even more.
Click to expand...

I disagree with a few things.

First, with your statement that Zoro couldn't use haki pre ts. He could he just didn't know his "BOAT" techinque was haki or the benefits to using haki. IE: Haki counters df power. It's because of that he never used BOAT against Enel or Aokiji. The power to cut or not cut is barrier haki. I will explain that in this post.

There are 3 levels to haki.

Level 1 haki is what Luffy showed us during his battle with Doffy. It allows the user to counter df power, increases the strength of the attack/defense and hardness at the same.

Level 2 haki is flowing haki which leads to barrier haki. They go together. This is releasing or flowing haki from and to the user's body. Barrier haki can be used offensively and defensively. For a swordsman, barrier haki is the technique that allows them to cut or not cut. When barrier haki is used offensively it increases the strength of the attack or for a swordsman it increases their cutting power. When barrier haki is used defensively it acts like a shield or coat of armor protecting the user or for a swordsman protecting the sword from the target. Another way to look at that is it stops the swords from cutting the target because of the barrier between the edge of the sword and the target.

Level 3 is internal haki (that's what I call it because there is no official name). This is injecting haki into the target to destroy it from within.

Then there's blackened haki which can be used at any level. The purpose of it is to increase the strength and hardness of the user's haki.


Zoro had level 2 haki pre ts.
 
Bogard

Bogard

You can't win
‎
#55
#55
Ryou is just the way Wano folks refer to haki


It's just like mantra in Skypiea, which is another way to call observation haki

Considering that Wano has always been closed to the outside world, it's not surprising if they have different naming terms

Just like their way to call devil fruits as "magic"

Ryou is just haki then

It's just that there are levels in your ryou / haki mastery
 
Warchief Sanji D Goat

Warchief Sanji D Goat

Mommy Fubuki!
‎
#56
#56
CbShadow said:
I disagree with a few things.

First, with your statement that Zoro couldn't use haki pre ts. He could he just didn't know his "BOAT" techinque was haki or the benefits to using haki. IE: Haki counters df power. It's because of that he never used BOAT against Enel or Aokiji. The power to cut or not cut is barrier haki. I will explain that in this post.

There are 3 levels to haki.

Level 1 haki is what Luffy showed us during his battle with Doffy. It allows the user to counter df power, increases the strength of the attack/defense and hardness at the same.

Level 2 haki is flowing haki which leads to barrier haki. They go together. This is releasing or flowing haki from and to the user's body. Barrier haki can be used offensively and defensively. For a swordsman, barrier haki is the technique that allows them to cut or not cut. When barrier haki is used offensively it increases the strength of the attack or for a swordsman it increases their cutting power. When barrier haki is used defensively it acts like a shield or coat of armor protecting the user or for a swordsman protecting the sword from the target. Another way to look at that is it stops the swords from cutting the target because of the barrier between the edge of the sword and the target.

Level 3 is internal haki (that's what I call it because there is no official name). This is injecting haki into the target to destroy it from within.

Then there's blackened haki which can be used at any level. The purpose of it is to increase the strength and hardness of the user's haki.


Zoro had level 2 haki pre ts.
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I disagree about Zoro having level 2 haki pre-TS. The concept of haki wasn't even exist back then (Oda didn't even created it). Zoro got a glimpse of what "haki" should be but couldn't manifest it until the beginning of post-TS.
 
CbShadow

CbShadow

‎
#57
#57
Zoro D Goat said:
I disagree about Zoro having level 2 haki pre-TS. The concept of haki wasn't even exist back then (Oda didn't even created it). Zoro got a glimpse of what "haki" should be but couldn't manifest it until the beginning of post-TS.
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Even though that concept may not existed back then Oda adopted it to include Zoro BOAT. The way Zoro's sensei explains cutting nothing is the exact same way Hyou explains ryou to Luffy when he talked about using it to cut steel or using it to not cut paper.
 
Garps tekkai

Garps tekkai

‎
#58
#58
Oblivion said:
I see what you’re saying and you’re right but I wish it was more explicit like hardening
Click to expand...
Yeah, I would like it to be that way aswell. Hopefully it will become clearer as we move forward within the story.
Cinera said:
What about the Kong Gatling? It seemed to be actually effective with Kaido coughing up blood and getting stunned for a few seconds.
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Yeah, you are right. I had to rewatch all those panels because of your quote. That certainly makes me suspicious aswell.
After rewatching it, I've also noticed that actually every move, so the Kong Gun, the Rhino Schneider and the Kong Rifle aswell, made him cough up blood. Strange.
Especially if you put the new introduced moves aside, stuff like Kong Gun and Rhino Schneider would therefore have absolutely no visual differentiation from their orgiinal versions if those were really advCoA lvl2 moves. we could only recognize it with context..
nik87 said:
There was something different. He was able to hurt Kaido which he couldnt do without it.

Normal Kong Gun wasnt able to hurt him back in ch923.
The way how Luffy's fights work is that he delivers tons of hits to his enemy, you can already see it.
He has hit Kaido countless times already while others hit him 2 times.
The others are too lethal compared to Luffy, aside from Kidd who looks worst for now.

For that trend to continue, Luffy cant suddenly pull something far more effective when he already delivered effective punches.
If he were to do it, his number of hits would decrease and that's not what you want to do with a MC.
Due to his attacks being the most ineffective ones, he gets to hit Kaido the most, Kidd aside...
On the other hand, Red Roc wasnt that impressive either but we will see how it ends up.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you are right aswell, he got hurt, whereas before nothing happened.. Just noticed it myself, after rewatching that stuff because of Cinera's quote.
It's a little strange though. Cause like I said above, there would absolutely be no visual differentation between his basic moves and his advCoA lvl2 moves if that's true. We could only recognize it via context, which works here, but probably won't work on anyone else bar Kaido.
Additonally Red Roc would be an absolute trap if we are talking about visuals. It means that it wasn't overflowing haki, but real fire instead, while advCoA lvl2 was still used though. Hella confusing and misleading, but yeah, can't tell with Oda.

I have many more thoughts about it, but let's just stop here. More feats will clear this up.
 
Kuro Ashi

Kuro Ashi

‎
#59
#59
Cinera said:
Kaido directly says the Scabbards' attacks bear no resemblance to Oden's blades:


That contradicts your claim that they are using the same kind of Ryuo Oden was using.



Kaido had already been noticing the sword before he concluded it's Oden's sword.
  • When Zoro overflowed his haki through Enma in preparation for Hiryuu Kaen, he felt Oden's presence:
  • When Zoro overflowed his haki through Enma in preparation for Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki, he noticed a strange haki arising from the sword:
  • He finally concluded that the sword was Oden's:

Kaido has been cut by Enma before. In fact, Enma is responsible for his lone grievous scar. It's not surprising that he would remember what being cut by Enma feels like. Again, it's not necessarily that a different kind of Ryuo flows through Enma. Zoro just flows more through Enma than through his other swords (for now).



  • Hyougoro was the second strongest person in Wano while Oden was alive
  • Many people are not capable of properly using Ryuo outside Wano.
  • The Scabbards are the only serious attempt to kill Kaido since he became Wano's tyrant
    • While the Scabbards could cut Kaido, their cuts were too shallow. Even when they targeted the scar Oden left, they couldn't even reopen it.
    • Their ryuo was not strong enough.
Cutting Kaido is a matter of the strength of your ryuo, not its kind. Again, there is zero indication that another kind of ryuo exists (as applied to swordsmanship at least). Oden's ryuo was just that strong.

Besides, Zoro's reaction to Luffy's use of internal destruction COA implied that he didn't know how to use it, so it isn't that.
Click to expand...
You are showing a cut off from a page that concludes Kaido getting attacked by the Scabbards through out the chapter in various ways. For some reason imgur is being dumb so i can't link it, but i imagine you do have the whole page at your disposal. That panel is cut from chapter 992.

It's basically Kaido saying that the Scabbards found ways to hurt him with attacks that don't resemble Oden's blades, since he get's punched by Nekomamushi, kicked by Inuarashi, shot by Izo, etc.

This is not about type of Haki, but type of attacks in that particular chapter.

Btw, if you check the pages when the Scabbards jump Kaido for the first time, when Kaido says that they also have Oden's Ryou, you can see both Kinemon's and Kiku's blades while they pierce Kaido's skin, and neither turns black and shows the Haki flow you're using to argue Zoro uses the same type of Ryou as them or Oden.
 
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