Current Events Zoro's Desire to Fight Kaido

Who is Zoro's main opponent in Wanokuni?

  • Kaido

  • King

  • Orochi

  • Mama

  • Queen

  • Jack

  • Someone else (reply in thread)

Results are only viewable after voting.
ShishioIsBack

ShishioIsBack

‎
#41
#41
Pantheos said:
Not at all. I just have my opinion. My liking to Kid isnt necessarely connected with his pure powerlevel. So even if Zoro is overshining him at the rooftop, i dont really care, i still enjoy one piece like it is.
Click to expand...
That's pretty respectable.
Then tell me why do you want Zoro to be away from Kaido when it makes so much more narrative sense for him to be on the roof top.
From his
-Continuous desire to Face Kaido
-Connection with Oden
-Enma
-Connection with Ryuma
-Kaido waiting for a monstrous samurai that rivals Oden
-Japanese Dragons vs Swordsmen being part of Japanese lore and Wano representing Japanese country

Kaido vs Zoro makes both thematic and narrative sense. So obviously there has to be some kinda bias due to which you want him to fight someone like King who Zoro has no interest in and Zoro doesn't consider worthy of his time?
 
Seth

Seth

𝐊𝐨𝐤𝐮𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐬𝐮𝐢
‎
#43
#43
@Pantheos
You can't get mad over every comment man. Even if they are baits or not.

You are the first person to post here despite Cinera stating that he tagged only interested people.

We know you like Kidd but no matter how hard you dislike the idea. Zoro is not leaving the roof and Kidd is not going to be more relevant than him or Luffy.

You are acting like pissed-off candy who wants Zoro to leave the roof to satisfy his agenda that Zoro is not on the roof but others are.

This is over. Zoro is fighting 2 Yonko with the rest of the novas and he is one of the main canons on the roof when it comes to damage.

Oda is not going to downgrade him.
 
ShishioIsBack

ShishioIsBack

‎
#45
#45
Pantheos said:
The difference is, i can disagree with you without falling in that childish behaviour. I dont need to hate or insult zoro to like my favorite character.
Click to expand...
Repeating Zoro's main fight is King is in a way insulting Zoro. Its like claiming he isn't worthy of fighting the big baddy or arc and should take the second seat to Law and Kidd when he has been presented in superior light to them through out Wano leading up to roof top fight and on the roof top fight.
 
ShishioIsBack

ShishioIsBack

‎
#50
#50
Yasheen said:
Nine shadows interwoven through twenty years of moonlit nights means nine people connected due to kaidos reign. Scabbards were connected before that.
Click to expand...
Scabbards brutally injured would get up and Kill Orochi hence fulfiling Toki's prophecy.
Zoro will Kill Kaido being the samurai more monstrous than Oden ever was, Dragon slaying lore of Wano country linked to the God of Wano country, making Enma black blade.

Luffy will K.O Big Mom
 
Crush

Crush

‎
#58
#58
Cinera said:
Acknowledgements
@Zenos7, @HA001 and @Zemlya have my gratitude for their direct assistance with the panels.

This essay would not be possible without their enthusiastic support.


Disclaimer
I tag a lot of people from my posts. If you want to be removed from my tag lists, let me know. Likewise if you want to be added.


Introduction
Ever since the raid on Onigashima began, Zoro repeatedly expressed his desire to fight Kaido. This is prima facie very surprising, as this is the first time — to my knowledge at least — that Zoro has repeatedly expressed a desire to fight the principal arc antagonist. In fact, excluding his battle with Mihawk, Zoro never expressed as much desire to fight his main opponent for the arc, as he did Kaido. This has generally been because Zoro's other opponents were people he fought in his role as the Firstmate of the Strawhats. They represented obstacles in Luffy's path, and so Zoro took them on to let Luffy face the arc antagonist.

With the exception of Mihawk, Zoro has never expressed as much desire to defeat any of his opponents as he has Kaido.

The sentence above is a very important point. If you're going to take one thing away from this essay, let it be that.

Giving the exceptional nature of Zoro's expression of his desire to fight Kaido, I decided to compile all of the instances (that I am aware of) into a post for ease of reference.


Imgur Album with all the panels in this post:
http://imgur.com/a/ONXvDO5

Imgur Album with the original pages the panels were cut from:
http://imgur.com/a/IBnnvuU



Zoro's Desire to Fight Kaido
Vs Apoo (Part 1)
After Zoro met up with Luffy and they confronted the horde of Gifters, Zoro advised Luffy that they should only defeat the bare minimum of opponents (presumably to conserve their strength to face Kaido):

This theme of conserving their strength to face Kaido comes up again during the raid.

After Apoo injured Zoro and briefly knocked Luffy out, Zoro picked up Luffy's unconscious form and ran away from the battle. He chastised himself for letting them take damage so early into the raid. If they let themselves take damage early on, they wouldn't stand a chance when the time came to face Kaido:


Zoro once again mentions the needs to conserve their strength for the battle with Kaido. From the very beginning of the Raid, Zoro's priority has been to defeat Kaido.


Vs Calamities (Part 1)
When Luffy tries to head to the Rooftop to face Kaido, Zoro declares that he would go with him:

Normally, Zoro would stay behind to defeat whatever subordinate of the arc antagonist is blocking Luffy's path, but not against Kaido. Zoro breaks from tradition and declares that he'll accompany Luffy to the battle against Kaido.


While they are rocketing upwards, Zoro questions Luffy to verify that Kaido was indeed on the Rooftop. Luffy affirms that he is, and that Kinemon and the other Scabbards are also fighting him:

Again, Zoro is maniacally focused on getting to Kaido.


After Queen intercept Zoro and Luffy's trip and King blocks off the Rooftop, we see the both of them complain that they can't get to the Rooftop and that the Calamities have completely blocked off the sky:

Again — and I recognise that I belabour this point — but in traditional arcs, this would be when Zoro volunteers to stay back and hold off the calamities so that Luffy could progress and face Kaido. This did not happen (the role of staying behind and clearing the way to the arc antagonist was instead given to Marco).


Later on, we see the Strawhat crew rally together:

Luffy declares that he would take on Kaido and the others should handle the rest and watch his back:

The other Strawhats affirm Luffy's order and declare that they'll handle things:

Zoro reaffirms that he just needs to get to the Rooftop and confront Kaido:

Even in a scene where Luffy declares that he shall face Kaido and asks the Strawhats to watch his back, Zoro is singled out to reiterate his intention to fight Kaido. I don't know if Luffy was implicitly excluding Zoro from the declaration to handle the rest and watch his back, but if he was, then Zoro declared his defiance to a direct order from Luffy.

Whichever the case, Zoro was singled out from the other Strawhats that were to watch Luffy's back and handle the situation on the Live Floor.

Again, this is a massive deviation from the normal formula. This is another opportunity that Oda was given to have Zoro confront one of the calamities. Luffy literally ordered the Strawhat crew to defeat the enemies on the Live Floor, but Oda singled out Zoro and had him reiterate his desire to face Kaido.


Vs Apoo (Part 2)
Zoro demands that Apoo hand over the antidote and tag teams him with Drake. He declares that he wants to hurry up and back up Kinemon and Co against Kaido, lamenting that afighting Apoo would only waste his time:

Again, Zoro is solely concerned with hurrying up to fight Kaido. He doesn't want to waste time and energy fighting anyone else. He's willing to double team a weaker opponent if it would let him get to Kaido faster.


Later on during the battle, Zoro notices Kiku's arm fall down from the Rooftop, causing him to become angry:


He immediately knocks down Apoo and retrieves the antidote:

Notice how it's an event related to the ongoing Rooftop battle that causes Zoro to get serious. Prior to seeing Kiku's arm fall down from the Rooftop, Zoro was trying to conserve his strength and avoid wasting time in pointless battles to hurry up and face Kaido. Once he realised that the stakes had risen — that those Scabbards he wanted to help were in mortal danger — his entire approach changed, and he stopped trying to conserve his strength.


After Zoro successfully retrieves the antidote, he leaves the situation on the Live Floor in Chopper's hands:

Again, this is a break from tradition. Delegating a problem to be handled by another Strawhat so that they can face the arc antagonist is a role Luffy normally takes. Yet, during the Onigashima raid, Zoro did just that.


Climax
Later on, when Queen tries to shoot at Chopper (and Apoo), Zoro gets mad and cuts Queen's weapon:

He questions Queen's stupid game and declares that he didn't come to Onigashima to waste time on nonsense:

Thereafter comes Zoro's declaration of his intent to kill Kaido:

A declaration puntuated by a massive earthquake. The bystanders speculate that it's the result of Zoro's fury or his Colour of the Supreme King:

The earthquake was just a coincidence (Kaido had begun lifting Onigashima at that moment), but it was a deliberate coincidence that served to emphasise Zoro's declaration of his desire to cut down Kaido.

This is the climax of Zoro's character arc throughout the Raid. At every turn, at every point, he was consistently — relentlessly — reaffirming that his main priority (his sole purpose) on Onigashima was to fight Kaido. The culmination of that relentless desire was this grand proclamation. As far as epic proclamations to defeat the arc antagonist go, I think this is one of the best.


Resolution: Marco
Zoro later on expresses the wish to fly straight to the Rooftop, but laments that getting through either of the Calamities wouldn't be easy:

Marco declares that the Strawhats are the real muscle in this battle and offers his assistance:

After figuring out the situation on the Live Floor, he declares that he shall fly Zoro to the Rooftop:

Marco then holds off King and Queen and sends Zoro upwards to the Rooftop:

Instead of Zoro staying back to hold of the antagonist's strongest subordinates so that Luffy could make it to the Rooftop, Marco holds back the antagonist's strongest subordinates so that Zoro can make it to the Rooftop. Zoro took on the role of a hero that needed to be delivered to the location of the final conflict vs the arc antagonist.



Conclusions
Kaido is Zoro's main opponent in Wanokuni.

Zoro and the Calamities were on the same floor for several chapters, yet Zoro completely ignored them and was solely focused on getting to the Rooftop to face Kaido. The lone time Zoro had any sort of confrontation with a Calamity at all, it was to declare his intentions to kill Kaido.

Had Oda intended for Zoro to face King or Queen as his opponent for the arc, Oda would not have had Zoro ignore them for several chapters and focus only on Kaido. At this point, if King or Queen gets in Zoro's way, it wouldn't be for an arc fight, it would be Zoro making quick work of them to return to facing Kaido.

The manga is pretty clear, Zoro vs King is an unfated confrontation.



Summary
  • Zoro had an entire character arc subplot on Onigashima regarding his desire to confront Kaido that climaxed in a literal earth-shaking declaration that he shall cut down Kaido.
    • Zoro repeatedly expressed his desire to conserve his strength and avoid taking damage so that he could be in the best condition to face Kaido
    • Zoro repeatedly expressed his desire to make it to the Rooftop so that he could face Kaido in battle
    • Zoro declared to Queen that he did not come to Onigashima to play his stupid games, that his purpose was to cut down Kaido
  • The traditional formula of Zoro holding off the arc antagonist's strongest subordinate(s) so that Luffy might face the arc antagonist was subverted in Onigashima.
    • Zoro delegated handling the situation on the Live Floor to Chopper.
    • Marco held off the Calamities so that Zoro might face Kaido.


I tagged everyone that voted for Zoro defeating King, King as Zoro's main opponent or otherwise expressed the notion that Kaido isn't Zoro's main opponent this arc. I apologise if the tag is unwanted.

~Snip~
Click to expand...
Zoro fighting Kaidou and Zoro fighting King does not need to be mutually exclusive. I believe he'll fight them both within the arc.


Zoro fights his mandatory opponent. This is the strongest subordinate of the main antagonist. The pattern that Oda normally uses in every major one piece arc to date. King is no exception for me. I see this as a ruse by Oda. This is essentially Enies Lobby all over again where some of the initial matchups were not the final ones for the strawhats.

As for King, his introduction with Queen calls back to the relationship between Sanji & Zoro, and Jyabura & Kaku. I do not see this as a coincidence. I also do not see Queen's connection to Judge and his comment of fighting the third or second strongest strawhat as meaningless. Nor do I believe when Zoro wondering how he'd get past King or Queen to get to the rooftop is for naught.


For Zoro's important moment against Kaidou, I believe that it'll happen near the closing moments of the final battle. Zoro pulls off his incredible feat right above the capitol with Onigashima about to crush the flower capitol. Before that, I see Zoro honing his skill vs King. Mastering Enma, fire style vs fire style, ashura reveal, mihawk flashback, coc unlocked(either vs Kaidou on the rooftop very soon, vs King, or at the end of the arc when he strikes Kaidou).

I personally believe that Hiyori is the shadow figure. Coincidentally, Zoro is the only person who has built a relationship with her. I don't think there's a coincidence that Zoro became acquainted with this arc's princess. If Hiyori is in trouble at any point then Zoro will have to deal with it. There are loads of way that Zoro could change matchups now.
 
Guymieux

Guymieux

‎
#59
#59
Crush said:
Zoro fighting Kaidou and Zoro fighting King does not need to be mutually exclusive. I believe he'll fight them both within the arc.


Zoro fights his mandatory opponent. This is the strongest subordinate of the main antagonist. The pattern that Oda normally uses in every major one piece arc to date. King is no exception for me. I see this as a ruse by Oda. This is essentially Enies Lobby all over again where some of the initial matchups were not the final ones for the strawhats.

As for King, his introduction with Queen calls back to the relationship between Sanji & Zoro, and Jyabura & Kaku. I do not see this as a coincidence. I also do not see Queen's connection to Judge and his comment of fighting the third or second strongest strawhat as meaningless. Nor do I believe when Zoro wondering how he'd get past King or Queen to get to the rooftop is for naught.


For Zoro's important moment against Kaidou, I believe that it'll happen near the closing moments of the final battle. Zoro pulls off his incredible feat right above the capitol with Onigashima about to crush the flower capitol. Before that, I see Zoro honing his skill vs King. Mastering Enma, fire style vs fire style, ashura reveal, mihawk flashback, coc unlocked(either vs Kaidou on the rooftop very soon, vs King, or at the end of the arc when he strikes Kaidou).

I personally believe that Hiyori is the shadow figure. Coincidentally, Zoro is the only person who has built a relationship with her. I don't think there's a coincidence that Zoro became acquainted with this arc's princess. If Hiyori is in trouble at any point then Zoro will have to deal with it. There are loads of way that Zoro could change matchups now.
Click to expand...
Zoro is far superior then king . Oda went out his way to highlight the worst gen vs yonko match up in a mile stone chapter like chapter 1000. Just for his readers to say zoro vs king ? So who’s killer going to fight ? Lol cut the bull shit
 
Mochiman

Mochiman

‎
#60
#60
Crush said:
Zoro fighting Kaidou and Zoro fighting King does not need to be mutually exclusive. I believe he'll fight them both within the arc.


Zoro fights his mandatory opponent. This is the strongest subordinate of the main antagonist. The pattern that Oda normally uses in every major one piece arc to date. King is no exception for me. I see this as a ruse by Oda. This is essentially Enies Lobby all over again where some of the initial matchups were not the final ones for the strawhats.

As for King, his introduction with Queen calls back to the relationship between Sanji & Zoro, and Jyabura & Kaku. I do not see this as a coincidence. I also do not see Queen's connection to Judge and his comment of fighting the third or second strongest strawhat as meaningless. Nor do I believe when Zoro wondering how he'd get past King or Queen to get to the rooftop is for naught.


For Zoro's important moment against Kaidou, I believe that it'll happen near the closing moments of the final battle. Zoro pulls off his incredible feat right above the capitol with Onigashima about to crush the flower capitol. Before that, I see Zoro honing his skill vs King. Mastering Enma, fire style vs fire style, ashura reveal, mihawk flashback, coc unlocked(either vs Kaidou on the rooftop very soon, vs King, or at the end of the arc when he strikes Kaidou).

I personally believe that Hiyori is the shadow figure. Coincidentally, Zoro is the only person who has built a relationship with her. I don't think there's a coincidence that Zoro became acquainted with this arc's princess. If Hiyori is in trouble at any point then Zoro will have to deal with it. There are loads of way that Zoro could change matchups now.
Click to expand...
Finally, an intelligent comment. As you rightly say, Zoro damaging Kaido and his opponent being King are not incompatible. Zoro has not yet mastered Enma and fighting King may be his biggest opportunity to do so.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top