Current Events Zoro's Desire to Fight Kaido

Who is Zoro's main opponent in Wanokuni?

  • Kaido

  • King

  • Orochi

  • Mama

  • Queen

  • Jack

  • Someone else (reply in thread)

Results are only viewable after voting.
Crush

Crush

‎
#101
#101
Cinera said:
You are claiming that Zoro's entire character arc in Onigashima — his desire to face Kaido — is a lie? Do you recognise how extraordinary the claim you're making is? If you're going to make such an extraordinary claim, present extraordinary evidence.



This was resolved already. Marco held off King and Queen for Zoro to make it past them:




All of this is happening in the battle with Kaido. Zoro has literally been adapting to Enma in the battle against Kaido.



Kawamatsu's words suggested the mystery figure was someone impossible. It can't be Hiyori given they know she's alive and saw her not long before the battle.



All of them require Zoro's entire character arc in Onigashima to be a lie.

On the Live Floor, we see the Strawhat crew rally together:

Luffy declares that he would take on Kaido and the others should handle the rest and watch his back:


The other Strawhats affirm Luffy's order and declare that they'll handle things:


Zoro reaffirms that he just needs to get to the Rooftop and confront Kaido:


Even in a scene where Luffy declares that he shall face Kaido and asks the Strawhats to watch his back, Zoro is singled out to reiterate his intention to fight Kaido.

If Zoro ignores Luffy's order to face Kaido, then he's not leaving the Kaido fight for anything.
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Why are you showing me panels of Zoro wanting to fight Kaidou?

Did you just ignore the point of my post< I am for Zoro fighting Kaidou. But Zoro also fighting King can also happen.:lawsigh:

You didn't even respond to most of my initial post.
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Guymieux said:
Zoro is far superior then king . Oda went out his way to highlight the worst gen vs yonko match up in a mile stone chapter like chapter 1000. Just for his readers to say zoro vs king ? So who’s killer going to fight ? Lol cut the bull shit
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You guys are very deluded.:seriously:
 
Weeman

Weeman

‎
#103
#103
I'm not really gonna argue with the points here. Zoro's desire to fight Kaido was made clear and he's already doing so, and i don't think he's leaving that fight until something major happens.

I do however want to say that i don't think we should take a character's statements as prophecy.

Pretty much all of the scabbards expressed their desire to kill Kaido, but we knew they were ultimately too weak to do so.

Similarly, the "Zoro will fight Orochi" crowd took Zoro's emotional comment of wanting to kill Orochi and avenge Yasu as justification to say that it would be his main fight, despite the fact that we all knew by that point that Orochi was too weak and far from the biggest threat this arc.

So ultimately i don't think Zoro stating that he wants to cut off Kaido's head means Oda is prepping us for that to happen. I think his desire to cut Kaido is one that probably came from Hiyori's statement that Oden used Enma to give Kaido his scar, which Zoro has taken as a challenge and i doubt he'll back down from the fight until he accomplishes something of that caliber at least. But straight up cutting Kaido's head, or just killing him in general is too big of an accomplishment, and one that i don't think even Luffy or anyone in this arc will achieve (unless Kaido kills himself or something lol).

So ultimately, as i've stated in your previous threads, i just don't think Zoro will be the one to defeat or kill Kaido, which pretty much leaves two scenarios in my mind:

1. Zoro injures Kaido and plays a part in the fight until it's conclusion, but is ultimately rendered unable to fight by the time we reach it's climax and Luffy has to finish it.

2. Zoro injures Kaido, a major shift in battlefield occurs after the "fall" of Onigashima, and Zoro ends up having to fight King because no one else can at that point.

I just like the second one better, but i could see either one happening at this point honestly.

Btw good thread as always.
 
Finalbeta

Finalbeta

Zoro Worshipper
‎
#104
#104
@ImmaIvanoM referred to an eventual Zoro v King.

Finalbeta said:
There's no substantial reason to believe he shall I think, for now...

We know that Kaido most likely won't be easy at all to strike down and that Zoro will probably be energiless post so if ever managing, there's also Big Mom to be tackled with.. meanwhile someone else could take care of him. Maybe Yamato in order to reach her daddy.
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The White Crane

The White Crane

‎
#107
#107
Cinera said:
Acknowledgements
@Zenos7, @HA001 and @Zemlya have my gratitude for their direct assistance with the panels.

This essay would not be possible without their enthusiastic support.


Disclaimer
I tag a lot of people from my posts. If you want to be removed from my tag lists, let me know. Likewise if you want to be added.


Introduction
Ever since the raid on Onigashima began, Zoro repeatedly expressed his desire to fight Kaido. This is prima facie very surprising, as this is the first time — to my knowledge at least — that Zoro has repeatedly expressed a desire to fight the principal arc antagonist. In fact, excluding his battle with Mihawk, Zoro never expressed as much desire to fight his main opponent for the arc, as he did Kaido. This has generally been because Zoro's other opponents were people he fought in his role as the Firstmate of the Strawhats. They represented obstacles in Luffy's path, and so Zoro took them on to let Luffy face the arc antagonist.

With the exception of Mihawk, Zoro has never expressed as much desire to defeat any of his opponents as he has Kaido.

The sentence above is a very important point. If you're going to take one thing away from this essay, let it be that.

Giving the exceptional nature of Zoro's expression of his desire to fight Kaido, I decided to compile all of the instances (that I am aware of) into a post for ease of reference.


Imgur Album with all the panels in this post:
http://imgur.com/a/ONXvDO5

Imgur Album with the original pages the panels were cut from:
http://imgur.com/a/IBnnvuU



Zoro's Desire to Fight Kaido
Vs Apoo (Part 1)
After Zoro met up with Luffy and they confronted the horde of Gifters, Zoro advised Luffy that they should only defeat the bare minimum of opponents (presumably to conserve their strength to face Kaido):

This theme of conserving their strength to face Kaido comes up again during the raid.

After Apoo injured Zoro and briefly knocked Luffy out, Zoro picked up Luffy's unconscious form and ran away from the battle. He chastised himself for letting them take damage so early into the raid. If they let themselves take damage early on, they wouldn't stand a chance when the time came to face Kaido:


Zoro once again mentions the needs to conserve their strength for the battle with Kaido. From the very beginning of the Raid, Zoro's priority has been to defeat Kaido.


Vs Calamities (Part 1)
When Luffy tries to head to the Rooftop to face Kaido, Zoro declares that he would go with him:

Normally, Zoro would stay behind to defeat whatever subordinate of the arc antagonist is blocking Luffy's path, but not against Kaido. Zoro breaks from tradition and declares that he'll accompany Luffy to the battle against Kaido.


While they are rocketing upwards, Zoro questions Luffy to verify that Kaido was indeed on the Rooftop. Luffy affirms that he is, and that Kinemon and the other Scabbards are also fighting him:

Again, Zoro is maniacally focused on getting to Kaido.


After Queen intercept Zoro and Luffy's trip and King blocks off the Rooftop, we see the both of them complain that they can't get to the Rooftop and that the Calamities have completely blocked off the sky:

Again — and I recognise that I belabour this point — but in traditional arcs, this would be when Zoro volunteers to stay back and hold off the calamities so that Luffy could progress and face Kaido. This did not happen (the role of staying behind and clearing the way to the arc antagonist was instead given to Marco).


Later on, we see the Strawhat crew rally together:

Luffy declares that he would take on Kaido and the others should handle the rest and watch his back:

The other Strawhats affirm Luffy's order and declare that they'll handle things:

Zoro reaffirms that he just needs to get to the Rooftop and confront Kaido:

Even in a scene where Luffy declares that he shall face Kaido and asks the Strawhats to watch his back, Zoro is singled out to reiterate his intention to fight Kaido. I don't know if Luffy was implicitly excluding Zoro from the declaration to handle the rest and watch his back, but if he was, then Zoro declared his defiance to a direct order from Luffy.

Whichever the case, Zoro was singled out from the other Strawhats that were to watch Luffy's back and handle the situation on the Live Floor.

Again, this is a massive deviation from the normal formula. This is another opportunity that Oda was given to have Zoro confront one of the calamities. Luffy literally ordered the Strawhat crew to defeat the enemies on the Live Floor, but Oda singled out Zoro and had him reiterate his desire to face Kaido.


Vs Apoo (Part 2)
Zoro demands that Apoo hand over the antidote and tag teams him with Drake. He declares that he wants to hurry up and back up Kinemon and Co against Kaido, lamenting that afighting Apoo would only waste his time:

Again, Zoro is solely concerned with hurrying up to fight Kaido. He doesn't want to waste time and energy fighting anyone else. He's willing to double team a weaker opponent if it would let him get to Kaido faster.


Later on during the battle, Zoro notices Kiku's arm fall down from the Rooftop, causing him to become angry:


He immediately knocks down Apoo and retrieves the antidote:

Notice how it's an event related to the ongoing Rooftop battle that causes Zoro to get serious. Prior to seeing Kiku's arm fall down from the Rooftop, Zoro was trying to conserve his strength and avoid wasting time in pointless battles to hurry up and face Kaido. Once he realised that the stakes had risen — that those Scabbards he wanted to help were in mortal danger — his entire approach changed, and he stopped trying to conserve his strength.


After Zoro successfully retrieves the antidote, he leaves the situation on the Live Floor in Chopper's hands:

Again, this is a break from tradition. Delegating a problem to be handled by another Strawhat so that they can face the arc antagonist is a role Luffy normally takes. Yet, during the Onigashima raid, Zoro did just that.


Climax
Later on, when Queen tries to shoot at Chopper (and Apoo), Zoro gets mad and cuts Queen's weapon:

He questions Queen's stupid game and declares that he didn't come to Onigashima to waste time on nonsense:

Thereafter comes Zoro's declaration of his intent to kill Kaido:

A declaration puntuated by a massive earthquake. The bystanders speculate that it's the result of Zoro's fury or his Colour of the Supreme King:

The earthquake was just a coincidence (Kaido had begun lifting Onigashima at that moment), but it was a deliberate coincidence that served to emphasise Zoro's declaration of his desire to cut down Kaido.

This is the climax of Zoro's character arc throughout the Raid. At every turn, at every point, he was consistently — relentlessly — reaffirming that his main priority (his sole purpose) on Onigashima was to fight Kaido. The culmination of that relentless desire was this grand proclamation. As far as epic proclamations to defeat the arc antagonist go, I think this is one of the best.


Resolution: Marco
Zoro later on expresses the wish to fly straight to the Rooftop, but laments that getting through either of the Calamities wouldn't be easy:

Marco declares that the Strawhats are the real muscle in this battle and offers his assistance:

After figuring out the situation on the Live Floor, he declares that he shall fly Zoro to the Rooftop:

Marco then holds off King and Queen and sends Zoro upwards to the Rooftop:

Instead of Zoro staying back to hold of the antagonist's strongest subordinates so that Luffy could make it to the Rooftop, Marco holds back the antagonist's strongest subordinates so that Zoro can make it to the Rooftop. Zoro took on the role of a hero that needed to be delivered to the location of the final conflict vs the arc antagonist.



Conclusions
Kaido is Zoro's main opponent in Wanokuni.

Zoro and the Calamities were on the same floor for several chapters, yet Zoro completely ignored them and was solely focused on getting to the Rooftop to face Kaido. The lone time Zoro had any sort of confrontation with a Calamity at all, it was to declare his intentions to kill Kaido.

Had Oda intended for Zoro to face King or Queen as his opponent for the arc, Oda would not have had Zoro ignore them for several chapters and focus only on Kaido. At this point, if King or Queen gets in Zoro's way, it wouldn't be for an arc fight, it would be Zoro making quick work of them to return to facing Kaido.

The manga is pretty clear, Zoro vs King is an unfated confrontation.



Summary
  • Zoro had an entire character arc subplot on Onigashima regarding his desire to confront Kaido that climaxed in a literal earth-shaking declaration that he shall cut down Kaido.
    • Zoro repeatedly expressed his desire to conserve his strength and avoid taking damage so that he could be in the best condition to face Kaido
    • Zoro repeatedly expressed his desire to make it to the Rooftop so that he could face Kaido in battle
    • Zoro declared to Queen that he did not come to Onigashima to play his stupid games, that his purpose was to cut down Kaido
  • The traditional formula of Zoro holding off the arc antagonist's strongest subordinate(s) so that Luffy might face the arc antagonist was subverted in Onigashima.
    • Zoro delegated handling the situation on the Live Floor to Chopper.
    • Marco held off the Calamities so that Zoro might face Kaido.


I tagged everyone that voted for Zoro defeating King, King as Zoro's main opponent or otherwise expressed the notion that Kaido isn't Zoro's main opponent this arc. I apologise if the tag is unwanted.

~Snip~
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Splendid, mate. :cheers::cheers::cheers:

ZKK is upon us all. :steef:
 
ImmaIvanoM

ImmaIvanoM

‎
#108
#108
HA001 said:
shit their pants from zoros flying dragon blaze.
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Kaido wasn’t laughing and was freaking out when the scabbards were fighting him too... Remember

He says he’s laughing because it’s fun... The supernova are actually able to make the fight fun

The man wasn’t even that hurt by Luffy’s last G4 barrage... Luffy went all out until exhaustion and Kaido just stood up shook it off and blasted tornadoes everywhere

honestly what are you guys reading? Does this fight really look like the supernovas are getting anywhere? Like if dragon Kaido can just walk off Full force Luffy, what the hell do you expect Law Kid and Killer and even Zoro to do? Did you expect a lot of these guys to even match full force Luffy? When Kid was standing shocked as fuck at Luffy, did that give you the idea that Kid has anything comparable to that?

I haven’t even mentioned big mom here... I bet all of you guys are hoping big mom betrays Kaido right? You are praying for that shit coz you know these guys are barely giving Kaido a work out let alone her
 
HA001

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
‎
#109
#109
ImmaIvanoM said:
Kaido wasn’t laughing and was freaking out when the scabbards were fighting him too... Remember

He says he’s laughing because it’s fun... The supernova are actually able to make the fight fun

The man wasn’t even that hurt by Luffy’s last G4 barrage... Luffy went all out until exhaustion and Kaido just stood up shook it off and blasted tornadoes everywhere

honestly what are you guys reading? Does this fight really look like the supernovas are getting anywhere? Like if dragon Kaido can just walk off Full force Luffy, what the hell do you expect Law Kid and Killer and even Zoro to do? Did you expect a lot of these guys to even match full force Luffy? When Kid was standing shocked as fuck at Luffy, did that give you the idea that Kid has anything comparable to that?

I haven’t even mentioned big mom here... I bet all of you guys are hoping big mom betrays Kaido right? You are praying for that shit coz you know these guys are barely giving Kaido a work out let alone her
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All it needs is one attack and that can change. Oden clapped his ass in one hit and zoro will surpass that attack on a hybrid kaido that will turn the tide.
 
S

Sword God Ryuma

‎
#110
#110
ImmaIvanoM said:
And Zoro needed certain assistance to help Luffy right?

same way he needed assistance for Pica
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@HA001 No Zoro will go all out on Kaido like he wants... And then he will lose... All the supernova will lose

And there won’t be a round two, the fights will get reshuffled
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You mean like Luffy needed assistance from Sanji and Jenbei?
 
NotTommy

NotTommy

‎
#111
#111
Main opponent? Kaido. But I'd enjoy seeing him get a fight against King then have him do whatever it is that Oda has planned for him. Zoro's made clear his intention to fight Kaido since they got to Onigashima but I'd like to also see King vs Zoro even if it's unlikely and apparently at this point that Zoro wouldn't be pushed to the extreme in the fight. I'd atleast like to see Zoro bust out a strong move against King to beat him then use Ashura against Kaido to re-open the wound but if all efforts are placed on Kaido and we don't get a 1v1 from Zoro, that's fine as well. Arc has quite a bit of chapters left so we'll see eventually.
 
ImmaIvanoM

ImmaIvanoM

‎
#112
#112
HA001 said:
All it needs is one attack and that can change. Oden clapped his ass in one hit and zoro will surpass that attack on a hybrid kaido that will turn the tide.
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Turn the tide of what? Will Kid suddenly have G4 AP? Will Law and Killer? Will Kaido just fall down like as if he is in dragon mode? Why doesn’t Hybrid Kaido be like Zoro in the Kamazo fight who gets serious injuries and shrugs them off to keep fighting? What’s big mom doing all along?

anha? Can you answer any of this? Seriously? Especially big mom... What is she doing when all of this happening?
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Sword God Ryuma said:
You mean like Luffy needed assistance from Sanji and Jenbei?
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@Sword God Ryuma
Huh?
 
HA001

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
‎
#113
#113
ImmaIvanoM said:
Turn the tide of what? Will Kid suddenly have G4 AP? Will Law and Killer? Will Kaido just fall down like as if he is in dragon mode? Why doesn’t Hybrid Kaido be like Zoro in the Kamazo fight who gets serious injuries and shrugs them off to keep fighting? What’s big mom doing all along?

anha? Can you answer any of this? Seriously? Especially big mom... What is she doing when all of this happening?
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Wtf that blow from oden had kaido 1 blow from death but zoro doing that attack to kaido won't make a difference ?
Then luffy can do stronger moves of his own as well and fuck kaido up. The others can deal with big mom.
 
ImmaIvanoM

ImmaIvanoM

‎
#117
#117
HA001 said:
Then luffy can do stronger moves of his own as well and fuck kaido up. The others can deal with big mom.
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@HA001 what stronger moves? He exhausted his g4 on dragon Kaido and barely phased the man... are you saying there is a G5?

and what the fuck do you mean “the rest deal with big mom”... You think kid law and killer can beat big mom? What the actual fuck? Kid can’t even compare to G4 and he supposedly can do anything to big mom?
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HA001 said:
oden above kaidos neck about to strike down.
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@HA001
Yes, and Oden says “get out of this country”... Whoch isn’t what you say when you are going to kill someone... right?
 
HA001

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
‎
#118
#118
ImmaIvanoM said:
@HA001 what stronger moves? He exhausted his g4 on dragon Kaido and barely phased the man... are you saying there is a G5?

and what the fuck do you mean “the rest deal with big mom”... You think kid law and killer can beat big mom? What the actual fuck? Kid can’t even compare to G4 and he supposedly can do anything to big mom?
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King Kong gun > anything he's used so far.

He may even have a new form.

Then what are the other 3 there for if they can't hurt big mom either.
 
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