Questions & Mysteries Why people keep pushing Queen vs Sanji?

I don't think Kaku was on the same level as Jabra. The Douriki measured raw physical strength and was taken before Kaku consumed his devil fruit (this may have raised his raw physical stats). Furthermore Kaku was a swordsman, and a raw measure of physical strength wouldn't encapsulate this.

I guess the simplest way to explain this is that I don't see Sanji beating Kaku in EL.
Both those stats were for Jabra and Kaku in human form. Jabra told Kaku after learning that his Doriki is slightly higher, that it would be a different story if he uses his Devil Fruit.

Kaku was a swordsman and Jabra was a very capable martial artist with a unique fighting style called Tekkai Kenpo, developed around his unique mastery of Tekkai which allowed him to be the only CP9 member who can constantly maintain his protective "armor".

Kaku was definitely the stronger of the two, but by a small margin, as that was the purpose of revealing their Doriki and constrasting it with each other in the first place.

I don't condone :

Sanji fans using arguments such as Jabra having years of his experience with his Devil Fruit ability, or the fact that his Devil Fruit is that of a carnivore like Lucci's, to argue for his superiority.

Zoro fans using arguments such as the different fighting style and use of weaponry outside of his own body for Kaku to push for a much higher gap between the two.

There can be some validity to certain claims both fanbases make, but at the end of the day, they cancel each other out, and Oda's intended message remains the same :

Kaku is slightly stronger than Jabra.

Would Sanji win against Kaku ? It depends. Kaku has lethality on his side and the fact that he was significantly pushing Zoro and basically forced him to use Ashura. Sanji with DJ has the advantage over pre Ashura Zoro of being able to hurt Kaku regardless of wether he uses Tekkai or not. The trick that Kaku used to nullify Lion's Song through changing the nature of what Zoro was trying to cut, would do nothing against DJ.

I'm going to say that it depends mostly on wether you stand by the notion that "Zoro and Sanji made short work of their opponents once they used their power up", which is sometimes used to argue against a smaller gap between the two and Luffy in EL than the Doriki gap separating Jabra and Kaku would suggest.

If you do, you likely think Zoro and Sanji could have made extended use of DJ/Ashura, and if that's the case, it makes most sense that you'd be more open to the possibility that DJ Sanji would be able to defeat Kaku as well.

I expect the gap in bounty between King and Queen to be even higher than the raw Douriki gap. Furthermore, the Yonkou's strongest subordinates have been significantly stronger than their next strongest subordinates (Katakuri - Smoothie/Cracker, Marco - Vista/Jozu, Benn Beckman - Lucky Roo/Yasopp). I expect Kaido's crew to be similar.
King and Queen have been portrayed as equals more so than any other pair of YC in the manga.

They are the only two YC introduced at the same time, with Oda using said introduction to greatly contrast them with the third YC as superior to such an extent that he's afraid to talk back to them.

We have Zoro calling both routes guarded by them equally difficut to go through, and they get very comparable portrayal with the way both attempt to stop Marco and Zoro from reaching the roof.

Maybe because of the meritocracy system implemented by Kaido in his crew, and their seniority serving as proof that they have been able to hold those top two positions since the moment Kaido walked into Wano, Oda has twisted the usual dynamic where the gap between the YC 1 and YC 2 seems bigger than the one between YC 2 and YC3, and instead made it so that the top two are competitive with each other, while the third lags behind by a fair margin.
 
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See what you and WCI did to him @Rivaille ? :josad:
He actually think Sanji fighting King and not Queen because they both fly, their combat would be visually awesome and Queen is linked to Drake and Chopper is wanking him.
King and Queen that have been treated like equals since the beginning of Wano.

And the saddest thing is that we have an entire forum full of Zoro wank, real one, after this Enma chapter and he still can't (or doesn't want to) recognise what wanking unconditionally a character looks like :pepemy:
Do you prefer something aesthetically pleasing or something that deepens and develops Sanji as a character?
I prefer the second, so I think Sanji vs Queen is inevitably happening.
Queen and Judge are related, both are evil scientists, and Sanji deeply hates it when technology is used for evil.

The germa66, as everyone knows, has a strong symbolic connection with Nazi technology. Queen's weapons are also a clear reference to chemical agents in the Nazi Holocaust extermination camps. There is also the fact that Queen a few chapters ago did not care about her subordinates being pawns and caught by the ice demon disease, Queen also is inhuman with his subordinates, just like Judge

So the connection of Queen and Judge as Nazi scientists who caused mass genocide without any trace of humanity with their subordinates is too obvious to ignore. It's something that Sanji loathes

Sanji vs. Queen is the perfect setting in which ''evil scientist who uses technology for evil'' is defeated by Sanji with his human and emotional traits trying to protect people from the danger of Queen's plagues.
It would be a perfect way for Oda to develop and deepen the character Sanji, so I’m looking forward to this fight
@Kuro Ashi
 

Doggo

Welcome to the House of Hope
Do you prefer something aesthetically pleasing or something that deepens and develops Sanji as a character?
I prefer the second, so I think Sanji vs Queen is inevitably happening.
Queen and Judge are related, both are evil scientists, and Sanji deeply hates it when technology is used for evil.

The germa66, as everyone knows, has a strong symbolic connection with Nazi technology. Queen's weapons are also a clear reference to chemical agents in the Nazi Holocaust extermination camps. There is also the fact that Queen a few chapters ago did not care about her subordinates being pawns and caught by the ice demon disease, Queen also is inhuman with his subordinates, just like Judge

So the connection of Queen and Judge as Nazi scientists who caused mass genocide without any trace of humanity with their subordinates is too obvious to ignore. It's something that Sanji loathes

Sanji vs. Queen is the perfect setting in which ''evil scientist who uses technology for evil'' is defeated by Sanji with his human and emotional traits trying to protect people from the danger of Queen's plagues.
It would be a perfect way for Oda to develop and deepen the character Sanji, so I’m looking forward to this fight
@Kuro Ashi
You put too much faith in Oda.
Thats a nice way of making it more appealing, but I have doubts he can do it.
Disbelief is real. :(
 
There's nothing wrong with Sanji vs Queen. It's just that some people think the gap between King and Queen is too big so they want Sanji to take on a badder and stronger opponent when in reality, King and Queen are very close in strength. On the other hand, people are downplaying Queen because he have "connection" with Sanji which is why some Sanji fans doesn't want Sanji to fight Queen when in reality, Queen captured a Yonko which is a huge feat in itself. Sanji beating a 1 bil bounty man is already a great accomplishment. :kayneshrug:
 
Do you prefer something aesthetically pleasing or something that deepens and develops Sanji as a character?
I prefer the second, so I think Sanji vs Queen is inevitably happening.
Queen and Judge are related, both are evil scientists, and Sanji deeply hates it when technology is used for evil.

The germa66, as everyone knows, has a strong symbolic connection with Nazi technology. Queen's weapons are also a clear reference to chemical agents in the Nazi Holocaust extermination camps. There is also the fact that Queen a few chapters ago did not care about her subordinates being pawns and caught by the ice demon disease, Queen also is inhuman with his subordinates, just like Judge

So the connection of Queen and Judge as Nazi scientists who caused mass genocide without any trace of humanity with their subordinates is too obvious to ignore. It's something that Sanji loathes

Sanji vs. Queen is the perfect setting in which ''evil scientist who uses technology for evil'' is defeated by Sanji with his human and emotional traits trying to protect people from the danger of Queen's plagues.
It would be a perfect way for Oda to develop and deepen the character Sanji, so I’m looking forward to this fight
@Kuro Ashi
Yes, i prefer an aesthetically pleasing aerial fight between Sanji and what seems to be Sanji's Katakuri, King, in which Sanji can grow as a fighter and as a character. Oda can come up with any kind of story involving Momo, him accepting his name, King fighting like Judge "the Garuda", King being a pervert or enjoing to put iron masks on his victims, King hiding his identity like Sanji, King race's genes being the ones responsible for DJ (and Judge capturing him to study his lineage factor) and thousands of others. The sky is the limit.
And if he doesn't i don't care. Not because i don't like Sanji but because he already accepted to use the RS to help his friends, while the scenario you suggest might be interesting It's certainly not necessary.
Sanji is in desperate need of a good fight, not to grow as a character (which might happen against King too if Oda wants btw)

Queen is a balloon that fights with plagues, with two swords and on land and that holds a grudge on Drake, Chopper and Drake are like perfect for him. Chopper needs to grow as a doctor.
The enemy fodders might even decide to fight on their side after they'll save them with the antibodies, which would be a far better ending for Queen character than Sanji kicking him for reasons.
 
Do you prefer something aesthetically pleasing or something that deepens and develops Sanji as a character?
I prefer the second, so I think Sanji vs Queen is inevitably happening.
Queen and Judge are related, both are evil scientists, and Sanji deeply hates it when technology is used for evil.

The germa66, as everyone knows, has a strong symbolic connection with Nazi technology. Queen's weapons are also a clear reference to chemical agents in the Nazi Holocaust extermination camps. There is also the fact that Queen a few chapters ago did not care about her subordinates being pawns and caught by the ice demon disease, Queen also is inhuman with his subordinates, just like Judge

So the connection of Queen and Judge as Nazi scientists who caused mass genocide without any trace of humanity with their subordinates is too obvious to ignore. It's something that Sanji loathes

Sanji vs. Queen is the perfect setting in which ''evil scientist who uses technology for evil'' is defeated by Sanji with his human and emotional traits trying to protect people from the danger of Queen's plagues.
It would be a perfect way for Oda to develop and deepen the character Sanji, so I’m looking forward to this fight
@Kuro Ashi
If WCI didn't happen, then I would be behind the second as well but we literally had a whole arc that deepened and developed Sanji's character, we even got closure with Judge himself and not some character who knows Judge. The Queen/Judge connection is weak, it doesn't add anything of value.
 

Doggo

Welcome to the House of Hope
Did I say something that is so unreal for Oda to do? :choppawhat:
Dunno.
For me, the Germa plotline was already finished. And I found the ending very satisfying. Keep poking at it just seems like an easy way to overuse it and make it trash.
Like the new star wars trilogy.
Could have been something good. Was just unnecessary.
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Because people thinks that Queen is fodder.
Because people think Calamities* are fodder.
Or any non-yonko except Mihawk.
 

Doggo

Welcome to the House of Hope
Bro, trust me. When Sanji are fighting both King and Queen, I'm gonna wank the Calamities so hard LMAO.
Just want to say that Queen KO'ed Big Mom.
And people want to push some "yonkos mid diff Calamities".
Cracker just got the Crocodile treatment.
Was introduced too soon. People saying he gets low diffed by whoever just because he lost to the power of "MC factor" are insane.
WG doesnt even know how he looks. All they ever caught on camera was his armor.
Justice for YC's!
 
Do you prefer something aesthetically pleasing or something that deepens and develops Sanji as a character?
I prefer the second, so I think Sanji vs Queen is inevitably happening.
Queen and Judge are related, both are evil scientists, and Sanji deeply hates it when technology is used for evil.

The germa66, as everyone knows, has a strong symbolic connection with Nazi technology. Queen's weapons are also a clear reference to chemical agents in the Nazi Holocaust extermination camps. There is also the fact that Queen a few chapters ago did not care about her subordinates being pawns and caught by the ice demon disease, Queen also is inhuman with his subordinates, just like Judge

So the connection of Queen and Judge as Nazi scientists who caused mass genocide without any trace of humanity with their subordinates is too obvious to ignore. It's something that Sanji loathes

Sanji vs. Queen is the perfect setting in which ''evil scientist who uses technology for evil'' is defeated by Sanji with his human and emotional traits trying to protect people from the danger of Queen's plagues.
It would be a perfect way for Oda to develop and deepen the character Sanji, so I’m looking forward to this fight
@Kuro Ashi
Sanji had enough growing. He literally didnt even get a fight in WCI just for his character to florish.

Now I want him to get a good pleasing and aesthetic fight, that hopefully has nothing to do with the Vinsmokes.
 
Getting 1v1 vs Queen is good, Queen is a beast. So why are people complaining?
Because Zoro gets to face Kaido. "If Sanji can't fight Kaido and play a big role like Zoro will then he has to fight the underling closest to Kaido in terms of strength", that's their line of thought. Only they won't say it out loud because they'd come off as insecure fans (which they are).
 
Because Zoro gets to face Kaido. "If Sanji can't fight Kaido and play a big role like Zoro will then he has to fight the underling closest to Kaido in terms of strength", that's their line of thought. Only they won't say it out loud because they'd come off as insecure fans (which they are).
Yeah and I kinda get it, I mean Sanji vs King is much better to see: black flaming suits clashing in the air, that is dope. But even if that doesn't happen and Sanji fights Queen what's the problem? At the end of the day King and Queen are portrayed near equal so there's no 'power-scaling problem' for Sanji fans imo
 
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