General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[Logiko]

Baffling to me how many times this needs to be stated, and then

- Carrot has been irrelevant since the 880's. It's been a 150 chapters. People argued for YEARS about her Wano relevance that never came.

- Yamato, a character introduced 20 chapters deep into Act 3, has 6x the amount of paneling than Carrot has gotten this entire arc. She already has almost more paneling in 50 chapters than Carrot has gotten in 200.

- Carrot's Sulong was a "big" deal because it was the first time we saw it. Funny is how it's retroactively not a unique power at all. The 2nd time she used it, Wanda fought with her. Then Neko just upstaged her and Wanda and beat Perospero

- Even her background with Pedro and her revenge is flimsy at best. It's been entirely resolved by a different character.

- Yamato's power entirely overshadows Carrot's lol. It's a permanent, mythical zoan with zero caveats to being a limited power. Carrot literally can't transform on any other time than a full moon.

- Carrot was a small portion of one chapter and the beginning of another to show Sulong. That's it. Yamato had nearly 5 chapters, where 2 chapters were almost essentially focused on her fight with Kaido, with actual named moves. Carrot has only Electro, which is shared by virtually every other member of her race lol

- Carrot has had ZERO personal time with Luffy. Every other strawhat, INCLUDING Yamato has gotten this screentime with Luffy. Zoro, Nami, Usopp and Sanji got it when Luffy first met them or soon after. Chopper got those moments during the fight with Wapol. Robin got it when Luffy saved her life in Alabasta, Franky got it when Luffy fought Lucci and he entrusted Robin's safety to him (sound familiar?). Brook received it with Luffy during the Piano scene after the arc centralized to him and he got his flashback. Jinbe received it post Marineford on Amazon Lily. Yamato got it when Luffy and her first met, followed by ALL of the scenes of acknowledgment the last few chapters where they look at each other and nod. Carrot has NOT gotten this.

- Yamato has verbally expressed leaving with Luffy no less than 4 times already

- Yamato being the protector of Wano is what her FATHER wants, not what she wants. Imagine thinking she'll stay and protect Wano in irony, especially when the 9 scabbards will 100% be alive and fine by the end of the arc and Momo is a Kaido sized dragon.

- Yamato has received the beginnings of a tragic flashback, which all crew members have received, including Jinbe. Carrot has not.

- Yamato has ties to Ace, like Jinbe. Similar to how Usopp has ties to Yasopp, who Luffy knew. Similar to how Brook has ties to Laboon, who they all know.


I really don't get how several users here can just be so far up their own ass in denial at this point. It's really weird. I actually wouldn't mind if Carrot joined, but youre nuts if you think Oda has been trying to state that she's set up to join the last 120 chapters. Yamato on the other hand has had flags planted at every single corner of most chapters showing off her good natured personality, naivete, strength, desire to sail, ADMIRATION for Luffy, ties to Ace, etc.

Wrong on so many levels. That will not work with me.

Let's begin:

- First the panel time of a character does not match the relevancy of said character to the story. As stated before. Example of that : Sanji during Little garden, and don't tel me that he is a strawhat it does not matter to the point being made.

- Yamato was indeed introduced late in the story, and on this you should take a hint: Yamato is a tool. A good character but that only serves a purpose in the present storyline, not the global story. If it was the case, Yamato would have been introduced around chapter 820.

- If i'm not mistaken,Yamato yet has to beat Carrot in term of panel time.

- If you think Carrot was a small portion of chapter 88 and 889 I suggest you read it again. The WHOLE chapter beside the first page revolves around the theme of the LOOK-OUT in chapter 888. Because you see, to imprint in the mind of the reader Carrot's relevancy to the strawhat, Oda did not only gave her one, but two posts in one. LOOK-OUT (the passive part of the job) you can see that for the first half of the chapter with a full page dedicated to what carrot actually sees... And RECON (the active part of her job) you can see that in the second part of the chapter when she goes into the ennemy territory to tare it down appart.

As I will be explaining to you all in later thread, Oda had to put this dichotomy for Carrot's post in order to make the post really relevant in that specific situation (because a post is only important in a SPECIFIC situation).. The dichotomy of that post is also represented in this chapter (888) by the transformation of Carrot where she pass from the sun state, to the moon state.

Also you are wrong about the moments.. I call them "the Shining mugiwara action", in other words, the moments that ciment a character into his role, they are in fact as follow (in order):

Zoro (honor/First mate) -> First encounter/Water Seven
Nami (Intelligence/Navigator)-> The cyclone evasion before drum
Usopp (Courage/Sniper) -> Water Seven attack/Dressrosa raid
Sanji (Kindness/Cook) -> The gin moment/The Wedding cake
Chopper (Capability/Doctor) ->Chopper's first fight (that one you got right)
Robin (Knowledge/What I call "Cap Giver"/Archeologist) -> Robin's first escavation before Jaya
Franky (Pride/Shipwright) -> The creation of the Sunny
Brook (Joy/Musician) -> The thriller bark Party
Jinbe (Abnegation/Responsibility/Helmsman) -> The Green Room

As you can see each moment fonction as the CORE representation of each strawhats. And yep you saw that coming.. it happened for Carrot too:

Carrot (Wonder/Look-Out) ->The Sulong raid (888/889)

Carrot represents wonder, from her design to her personnality. In a few words, in base form, she represents the wonder of the world we saw through the eyes of a teenage girl when.. in Sulong form, Carrot IS the representation of wonder, this time Carrot is not the one who looks, she is the one who is BEING looked at. (You can see that through the reaction of the characters in the chapter but moreso with Jinbe's comment "what a wonderous sight")

- When an author makes a character expresses a wish multiple time, we call that a promise.. and if that promise is surrounded by corruption either by the form of the dialogue or by the dialogue (like a affirmation for example).. I call that a Subversion dialogue.. A dialogue that is doomed to be subversif. In other words.. you should not trust what Oda is trying to fill your mouth with.

- Yes what Kaido wants is for Yamato to rule Wano.. the thing is, that is FORCED on Yamato. What we are talking about here is a FREE choice that would put yamato on the pass off Wano despite what her father want. She would be here on her OWN rules. This is dramatic irony.

- As you will understand with me.. a flashback is NOT a necessity to become a strawhat, plus mabny character had flashback, they did not became strawhats.

- Having ties to Ace is irrelevant for a recruitment.

- If you do not understand why we think carrot has more of a shot than Yamato.. I suggest you stay a bit longer. Argument will come to you.

 

[JoSeungHun7335]

Baffling to me how many times this needs to be stated.

- Carrot has been irrelevant since the 880's. It's been a 150 chapters. People argued for YEARS about her Wano relevance that never came.

- Yamato, a character introduced 20 chapters deep into Act 3, has 6x the amount of paneling than Carrot has gotten this entire arc. She already has almost more paneling in 50 chapters than Carrot has gotten in 200.

- Carrot's Sulong was a "big" deal because it was the first time we saw it. Funny is how it's retroactively not a unique power at all. The 2nd time she used it, Wanda fought with her. Then Neko just upstaged her and Wanda and beat Perospero

- Even her background with Pedro and her revenge is flimsy at best. It's been entirely resolved by a different character.

- Yamato's power entirely overshadows Carrot's lol. It's a permanent, mythical zoan with zero caveats to being a limited power. Carrot literally can't transform on any other time than a full moon.

- Carrot was a small portion of one chapter and the beginning of another to show Sulong. That's it. Yamato had nearly 5 chapters, where 2 chapters were almost essentially focused on her fight with Kaido, with actual named moves. Carrot has only Electro, which is shared by virtually every other member of her race lol. Funny enough is Oda is STILL making Yamato relevant with her powers. Wait until she disposes of the bombs. Who'll stand in her way? What trouble will she continue to get into?

- Carrot has had ZERO personal time with Luffy. Every other strawhat, INCLUDING Yamato has gotten this screentime with Luffy. Zoro, Nami, Usopp and Sanji got it when Luffy first met them or soon after. Chopper got those moments during the fight with Wapol. Robin got it when Luffy saved her life in Alabasta, Franky got it when Luffy fought Lucci and he entrusted Robin's safety to him (sound familiar?). Brook received it with Luffy during the Piano scene after the arc centralized to him and he got his flashback. Jinbe received it post Marineford on Amazon Lily. Yamato got it when Luffy and her first met, followed by ALL of the scenes of acknowledgment the last few chapters where they look at each other and nod. Carrot has NOT gotten this.

- Yamato has verbally expressed leaving with Luffy no less than 4 times already

- Yamato being the protector of Wano is what her FATHER wants, not what she wants. Imagine thinking she'll stay and protect Wano in irony, especially when the 9 scabbards will 100% be alive and fine by the end of the arc and Momo is a Kaido sized dragon.

- Yamato has received the beginnings of a tragic flashback, which all crew members have received, including Jinbe. Carrot has not.

- Yamato has ties to Ace, like Jinbe. Similar to how Usopp has ties to Yasopp, who Luffy knew. Similar to how Brook has ties to Laboon, who they all know.


I really don't get how several users here can just be so far up their own ass in denial at this point. It's really weird. I actually wouldn't mind if Carrot joined, but youre nuts if you think Oda has been trying to state that she's set up to join the last 120 chapters. Yamato on the other hand has had flags planted at every single corner of most chapters showing off her good natured personality, naivete, strength, desire to sail, ADMIRATION for Luffy, ties to Ace, etc.


And no, Momonosuke did not receive remotely the same level of strawhat relevance. He has arc/Saga relevance, there is a massive difference to portrayal here. Nothing about Momo's skillset is warranted a spot on the crew. He's never uttered a word on desiring to sail with Luffy. He's solely has talked about his goal to becoming Shogun, that's it. Ya'll need to start facing reality and actually read the story you put your eyes on.

You want Carrot join? Better to hope she becomes a stowaway and Oda decides to focus on her later. Otherwise she has nothing going for her now

Carrot fans can’t even mention any important thing Carrot does in Wano. Instead of giving 1 example of any importance does Carrot have in Wano, they’re too busy denying the obvious fact of Yamato even giving irrational trivial things. All they can do is bring the same argument over and over again, each new chapter, where their argument has already been debunked every single time.

Carrot WAS quite important in WCI. That’s the fact. But she ISN’T anymore, and that’s also the fact. Imagine making 5000 words of delusional things only to be countered every single time.

heck even in a chapter before break, Carrot is again nowhere to be seen.

 

[Logiko]

Carrot fans can’t even mention any important thing Carrot does in Wano. Instead of giving 1 example of any importance does Carrot have in Wano, they’re too busy denying the obvious fact of Yamato even giving irrational trivial things. All they can do is bring the same argument over and over again, each new chapter, where their argument is already been debunked every single time.

Carrot WAS quite important in WCI. That’s the fact. But she ISN’T anymore, and that’s also the fact. Imagine making 5000 words of delusional things

heck even in a chapter before break, Carrot is again nowhere to be seen.

As we have stated multiple time, Carrot irrelevancy in Wano is not relevant to her importance to the global story. The Yonko saga is constitued by TWO arcs (in fact three but eh), not one. The first part is the one that matters for carrot, not the second one. Stop reaching.

 

[JoSeungHun7335]

As we have stated multiple time, Carrot irrelevancy in Wano is not relevant to her importance to the global story. The Yonko saga is constitued by TWO arcs, not one. The first part is the one that matters for carrot, not the second one. Stop reaching.

Didn’t you say you were gonna ignore me? Because clearly I ignore your delusional irrational theories, and I replied to him, not you. And I ignored you by replying him, because I simply holds the motto of “never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience.”

 

[Logiko]

Oh and I forgot :

Luffy (Freedom/Captain) ->Every single action of the story lol

Post automatically merged: Oct 9, 2021

Didn’t you say you were gonna ignore me? Because clearly I ignore your delusional irrational theories, and reply to him, not you. And I ignored you by replying him, because I simply holds the motto of “never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience.”

Not if you start acting like an adult.

 

[Seth]

See when adult Momo first transformed, it was Luffy who witnessed, immediately recognized and commented about his transformation.

Yet when Yamao transformed

None of Straw Hats witnessed it, and not coincidence that it's Heart Pirates who witnessed and commented about it.

Momo will join Straw Hats. He is always more relevant, important character since literally years ago from Punk Hazard arc.
Yamao, the last minute added character in Wano arc, will join Law's crew, which was also last minuted added character in Sabaody.

None will. At least not now Jerome.

Wano needs stabilization after the war. Momo must give his people hope. They can't have another Shogun sail the fuck out and leave them in hands well of who? Fodder Yakuza bosses?

 

[Roosta]

For people who think Yamato is going to be the guardian deity of Wano after this: you're saying that people of the Flower Capital, having just witnessed a dragon literally holding up Onigashima, are going to say "you know, that was good and all, but I want this wolf to guard us instead lol". Momonosuke's entire character arc of 300+ chapters has been building to this, and you think Yamato will somehow steal his thunder? Kaido, Luffy, the Scabbards, and the Makami have all been called guardian deities, it's painfully obvious that Momonosuke is next in line.

 

[dizzy2341]

For people who think Yamato is going to be the guardian deity of Wano after this: you're saying that people of the Flower Capital, having just witnessed a dragon literally holding up Onigashima, are going to say "you know, that was good and all, but I want this wolf to guard us instead lol". Momonosuke's entire character arc of 300+ chapters has been building this, and you think Yamato will somehow steal his thunder? Kaido, Luffy, the Scabbards, and the Makami have all been called guardian deities, it's painfully obvious that Momonosuke is next in line.

Wow. Just checked about the scabbards thing and you're totally right. But dear God, I now really struggle to see how anyone can look at this panel and not put two and two together.

Spoiler

 

[Staticshadic]

For people who think Yamato is going to be the guardian deity of Wano after this: you're saying that people of the Flower Capital, having just witnessed a dragon literally holding up Onigashima, are going to say "you know, that was good and all, but I want this wolf to guard us instead lol". Momonosuke's entire character arc of 300+ chapters has been building to this, and you think Yamato will somehow steal his thunder? Kaido, Luffy, the Scabbards, and the Makami have all been called guardian deities, it's painfully obvious that Momonosuke is next in line.

Heck zoro relatives could related to one of Daimyo of wano. His sword was actually made in wano does that mean he will stay wano?

 

[Roosta]

Heck zoro relatives could related to one of Daimyo of wano. His sword was actually made in wano does that mean he will stay wano?

I mean, if he's gonna settle down with Hiyori, why would he leave...

Post automatically merged: Oct 9, 2021

Wow. Just checked about the scabbards thing and you're totally right. But dear God, I now really struggle to see how anyone can look at this panel and not put two and two together.

Spoiler

I think it's because all the previous references to guardian deities were over a year ago, and the TCB translation of Kaido's line was that the Makami is "the" guardian deity of Wano. If there's only one, it can't leave, therefor Yamato will have to give up on her dream and stay in Wano. Fortunately, there are many, and there's about to be one more!

 

[dizzy2341]

I think it's because all the previous references to guardian deities were over a year ago, and the TCB translation of Kaido's line was that the Makami is "the" guardian deity of Wano. If there's only one, it can't leave, therefor Yamato will have to give up on her dream and stay in Wano. Fortunately, there are many, and there's about to be one more!

I think you might be misunderstanding me. Guardians are there to support Wano and the shogun.

The scabbards did that for years serving a previous shogun and are worn out, missing limbs and on the brink of death.
Luffy will not be in Wano forever and from the very start was only there to sort out their current problem
Yamao has only just embraced her role as guardian and is forming bonds with the incoming shogun

The set up is for her to be the next guardian. After all, she is the only one to have a devil fruit that permanently makes her Wano's guardian. It's an immutable characteristic.

 

[Roosta]

I think you might be misunderstanding me. Guardians are there to support Wano and the shogun.

The scabbards did that for years serving a previous shogun and are worn out, missing limbs and on the brink of death.
Luffy will not be in Wano forever and from the very start was only there to sort out their current problem
Yamao has only just embraced her role as guardian and is forming bonds with the incoming shogun

The set up is for her to be the next guardian. After all, she is the only one to have a devil fruit that permanently makes her Wano's guardian. It's an immutable characteristic.

No, I understand you, I'm just using your logic against you.

 

[Adamxero]

Larrot Fans after realising Larrot will be in the New Nox Pirates weaker than Wanda

 

[dizzy2341]

No, I understand you, I'm just using your logic against you.

Ah lol. I don't quite see how you did that, but sure...I guess.

Just as Orochi was the shogun and had his guardian deity Kaido to protect him, Momo will become shogun and have his guardian deity Yamao to protect him.

 

[Roosta]

Ah lol. I don't quite see how you did that, but sure...I guess.

Just as Orochi was the shogun and had his guardian deity Kaido to protect him, Momo will become shogun and have his guardian deity Yamao to protect him.

The thing is, I don't understand how one can see this ending without Momonosuke himself being a guardian deity:

• He's about to save everyone in the Flower Capital, in view of everyone in the Flower Capital.
• He's a Seiryu, a dragon which grew from a Koi fish that climbed a waterfall. There is literally no more apt representation of Wano, the country which you enter by riding Koi fish climbing waterfalls.
• He himself echos the story of the Seiryu, growing up suddenly and sacrificing 20 years of his life to save the country and people.
• He looks like Kaido, the current guardian deity of Wano.
• After he returns to human form, he'll have the appearance of Oden, the most legendary man in the recent history of the country.

I'd be genuinely curious if someone could come up with a reason why Yamato is a more apt candidate for being the primary guardian deity over Momonosuke.

 

[Uncle Van]

Still wondering how all the Anti-Yamato talk is supposed to benefit Carrot somehow.

 

[Logiko]

The anti Yamato talk is not supposed to serv Carrot in anyway. it's suppose dto make the hardcore Yamato fans understand that not having yamato in the crew is not a mistake or a "trash" decision by Oda, but a logical one. And that no one has to get revenge on the story for it.

The anti Yamato talk (in my case) is damage control.

 

[Uncle Van]

The anti Yamato talk is not supposed to serv Carrot in anyway. it's suppose to make the hardcore Yamato fan that not having yamato in the crew is not a mistake or a "trash" descision by Oda but a logical one. And that no one has to get revenge on the story for it.

The anti Yamato talk (in my case) is damage control.

At the very least, you have to give proper narrative reasons for Yamato not joining. Its extremely easy to give narrative reasons for Carrot not joining since she's literally the opposite of a SH.

 

[Ravagerblade]

The anti Yamato talk is not supposed to serv Carrot in anyway. it's suppose to make the hardcore Yamato fan that not having yamato in the crew is not a mistake or a "trash" descision by Oda but a logical one. And that no one has to get revenge on the story for it.

The anti Yamato talk (in my case) is damage control.

Carrot doesn't have any plot relevance like you think she does.

 

[dizzy2341]

The thing is, I don't understand how one can see this ending without Momonosuke himself being a guardian deity:

• He's about to save everyone in the Flower Capital, in view of everyone in the Flower Capital.
• He's a Seiryu, a dragon which grew from a Koi fish that climbed a waterfall. There is literally no more apt representation of Wano, the country which you enter by riding Koi fish climbing waterfalls.
• He himself echos the story of the Seiryu, growing up suddenly and sacrificing 20 years of his life to save the country and people.
• He looks like Kaido, the current guardian deity of Wano.
• After he returns to human form, he'll have the appearance of Oden, the most legendary man in the recent history of the country.

I'd be genuinely curious if someone could come up with a reason why Yamato is a more apt candidate for being the primary guardian deity over Momonosuke.

A kind of fundamental mistake in this is that Momo is not a Seiryu...

A Seiryu is specifically an azure dragon. Kaido is a Seiryu, but Momo is just an ordinary dragon. The Seiryu is the guardian dragon, not just any dragon in general.

I'd be genuinely curious if someone could come up with a reason why Yamato is a more apt candidate for being the primary guardian deity over Momonosuke.

Oden, the type of man Momo aspires to be had his own set of guardians. Why won't Momo? Especially considering a large part of his story is about him learning to accept help from others. There's no way he's just gonna singlehandedly do everything himself after the arc. He'll continue to have people that support him. Even more so considering he's still mentally an 8 year old.

As for who "appears" more like a guardian...Yamao has the Makami fruit, a Wano guardian wolf that protects people against fire. There's now a huge ass fire on Onigashima that Yamao is about to put out in her mythical wolf form in front of all the samurai and yakuza for them to recognise her.