General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[Logiko]

At the very least, you have to give proper narrative reasons for Yamato not joining. Its extremely easy to give narrative reasons for Carrot not joining since she's literally the opposite of a SH.

This is a lie, Carrot is basically a s trawhat without a confirmation. You know it, I know it, EVERYONE knows it. Don't make yourself look less analyst that you are. I already gave one of dozen and dozen of the reasons why go check the post above. but please don't say that kind meaningless stuff like "Carrot is the opposite of a strawhat" that's just bonkers.

Concerning Yamato, the work is in progress, but simply, this affirmation can't be debunked as Yamato was never introduced with a strong strawhat property.

Post automatically merged: Oct 9, 2021

Carrot doesn't have any plot relevance like you think she does.

I think I know a bit more about Carrot than you.

 

[Roosta]

A kind of fundamental mistake in this is that Momo is not a Seiryu...

A Seiryu is specifically an azure dragon. Kaido is a Seiryu, but Momo is just an ordinary dragon. The Seiryu is the guardian dragon, not just any dragon in general.

It's been becoming more and more obvious that Momo's fruit is a perfect copy of Kaido's. So, if your reason is that Momo is the wrong color...

Oden, the type of man Momo aspires to be had his own set of guardians. Why won't Momo? Especially considering a large part of his story is about him learning to accept help from others. There's no way he's just gonna singlehandedly do everything himself after the arc. He'll continue to have people that support him. Even more so considering he's still mentally an 8 year old.

As for who "appears" more like a guardian...Yamao has the Makami fruit, a Wano guardian wolf that protects people against fire. There's now a huge ass fire on Onigashima that Yamao is about to put out in her mythical wolf form in front of all the samurai and yakuza for them to recognise her.

This is assuming that Yamato is capable of putting out said fire, which I could definitely see happening. Still, at that point you're comparing Yamato putting out the fire for the samurai to see vs Momonosuke saving everyone (including said samurai) for everyone to see.

Seeing your language, though, I wonder: do you think the shogun can't be the guardian deity? Is there evidence to support this?

 

[dizzy2341]

It's been becoming more and more obvious that Momo's fruit is a perfect copy of Kaido's. So, if your reason is that Momo is the wrong color...

Yes, that's literally the reason.

Momo's df was created using Kaido's, but whilst Kaido's dragon is blue, (i.e. a Seiryu) Momo's is peach...so not a Seiryu.

It's called the azure (blue) dragon... because it's blue lol. Whilst Momo may also be a dragon, his doesn't have any of the guardian connotations that Kaido's had. Trying to say that they're the same just because they're both dragons is equivalent to claiming Who's Who is comparable to a Byakko, just because they're both tigers.

This is assuming that Yamato is capable of putting out said fire, which I could definitely see happening. Still, at that point you're comparing Yamato putting out the fire for the samurai to see vs Momonosuke saving everyone (including said samurai) for everyone to see.

Yep. Momo's job is gonna be more important since he's the more important character. But that doesn't excuse the fact that Yamao is playing the role of his right hand man, covering his back in case the "worst possible situation" happens. Momo will have saved his country, but Yamao played a big role and will be recognised by the people of Wano for doing so.

Seeing your language, though, I wonder: do you think the shogun can't be the guardian deity? Is there evidence to support this?

I have no reason to assume it can't happen, but I also have no reason to assume it will either. In the broader context of the story it just makes little sense. Like what would be the point?

We'll go from learning from all the way back in Punk Hazard to stop taking himself so seriously and accept others help when he needed it. To then having Momo's story conclude with him being both the shogun and guardian deity of Wano, even though:

-Trying to do everything by himself was the fatal flaw of his father
-There's a character who literally has the guardian of Wano devil fruit, is far stronger, more knowledgeable and has vowed to die for him and protect Wano

Makes little sense to me.

 

[Sigran101]

Yes, that's literally the reason.

Momo's df was created using Kaido's, but whilst Kaido's dragon is blue, (i.e. a Seiryu) Momo's is peach...so not a Seiryu.

It's called the azure (blue) dragon... because it's blue lol. Whilst Momo may also be a dragon, his doesn't have any of the guardian connotations that Kaido's had. Trying to say that they're the same just because they're both dragons is equivalent to claiming Who's Who is comparable to a Byakko, just because they're both tigers.

Gosh, what ridiculous semantics. It's literally the same devil fruit. Vegupunk literally cloned Kaido's devil fruit. It's probably just pink because Momo wears pink.

And that comparison is intentionally dishonest. I know you are smarter than this. Comparing two dragons of the same size and form, with the exact same powers, with one being literally a clone of the other, is not the same as comparing a sabertooth tiger to a mythical diety tiger with fire powers.

 

[Roosta]

I have no reason to assume it can't happen, but I also have no reason to assume it will either. In the broader context of the story it just makes little sense. Like what would be the point?

Kaido wants Yamato to be the shogun and the guardian deity.

 

[Ravagerblade]

This is a lie, Carrot is basically a s trawhat without a confirmation. You know it, I know it, EVERYONE knows it. Don't make yourself look less analyst that you are. I already gave one of dozen and dozen of the reasons why go check the post above. but please don't say that kind meaningless stuff like "Carrot is the opposite of a strawhat" that's just bonkers.

Concerning Yamato, the work is in progress, but simply, this affirmation can't be debunked as Yamato was never introduced with a strong strawhat property.

Post automatically merged: Oct 9, 2021

I think I know a bit more about Carrot than you.

False. and that statement is just dripping with bias, You think?! Not much confidence in your wording. Maybe you should just walk the fuck away right now before your continued embarrassment goes further.
Unless you are Oda, You Do not in fact know more about Carrot than the rest of us readers. Get out of here with that clown logic.

 

[dizzy2341]

Kaido wants Yamato to be the shogun and the guardian deity.

Kaido also wanted the guardian deity of Wano to keep his slave camps running, so I dunno why his word holds any value in what's reasonable and just.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Wrong on so many levels. That will not work with me.

Let's begin:

- First the panel time of a character does not match the relevancy of said character to the story. As stated before. Example of that : Sanji during Little garden, and don't tel me that he is a strawhat it does not matter to the point being made.

- Yamato was indeed introduced late in the story, and on this you should take a hint: Yamato is a tool. A good character but that only serves a purpose in the present storyline, not the global story. If it was the case, Yamato would have been introduced around chapter 820.

- If i'm not mistaken,Yamato yet has to beat Carrot in term of panel time.

- If you think Carrot was a small portion of chapter 88 and 889 I suggest you read it again. The WHOLE chapter beside the first page revolves around the theme of the LOOK-OUT in chapter 888. Because you see, to imprint in the mind of the reader Carrot's relevancy to the strawhat, Oda did not only gave her one, but two posts in one. LOOK-OUT (the passive part of the job) you can see that for the first half of the chapter with a full page dedicated to what carrot actually sees... And RECON (the active part of her job) you can see that in the second part of the chapter when she goes into the ennemy territory to tare it down appart.

As I will be explaining to you all in later thread, Oda had to put this dichotomy for Carrot's post in order to make the post really relevant in that specific situation (because a post is only important in a SPECIFIC situation).. The dichotomy of that post is also represented in this chapter (888) by the transformation of Carrot where she pass from the sun state, to the moon state.

Also you are wrong about the moments.. I call them "the Shining mugiwara action", in other words, the moments that ciment a character into his role, they are in fact as follow (in order):

Zoro (honor/First mate) -> First encounter/Water Seven
Nami (Intelligence/Navigator)-> The cyclone evasion before drum
Usopp (Courage/Sniper) -> Water Seven attack/Dressrosa raid
Sanji (Kindness/Cook) -> The gin moment/The Wedding cake
Chopper (Capability/Doctor) ->Chopper's first fight (that one you got right)
Robin (Knowledge/What I call "Cap Giver"/Archeologist) -> Robin's first escavation before Jaya
Franky (Pride/Shipwright) -> The creation of the Sunny
Brook (Joy/Musician) -> The thriller bark Party
Jinbe (Abnegation/Responsibility/Helmsman) -> The Green Room

As you can see each moment fonction as the CORE representation of each strawhats. And yep you saw that coming.. it happened for Carrot too:

Carrot (Wonder/Look-Out) ->The Sulong raid (888/889)

Carrot represents wonder, from her design to her personnality. In a few words, in base form, she represents the wonder of the world we saw through the eyes of a teenage girl when.. in Sulong form, Carrot IS the representation of wonder, this time Carrot is not the one who looks, she is the one who is BEING looked at. (You can see that through the reaction of the characters in the chapter but moreso with Jinbe's comment "what a wonderous sight")

- When an author makes a character expresses a wish multiple time, we call that a promise.. and if that promise is surrounded by corruption either by the form of the dialogue or by the dialogue (like a affirmation for example).. I call that a Subversion dialogue.. A dialogue that is doomed to be subversif. In other words.. you should not trust what Oda is trying to fill your mouth with.

- Yes what Kaido wants is for Yamato to rule Wano.. the thing is, that is FORCED on Yamato. What we are talking about here is a FREE choice that would put yamato on the pass off Wano despite what her father want. She would be here on her OWN rules. This is dramatic irony.

- As you will understand with me.. a flashback is NOT a necessity to become a strawhat, plus mabny character had flashback, they did not became strawhats.

- Having ties to Ace is irrelevant for a recruitment.

- If you do not understand why we think carrot has more of a shot than Yamato.. I suggest you stay a bit longer. Argument will come to you.

"That won't work on me".

This isn't about you lmao. No one can change denial and delusion until Oda does it himself. I could care less about convincing you. There is absolutely no point in trying. All of your counterpoint are made up fan notions about what you WANT Carrot to do or how relevant you THINK she is.

Que difference:

- Yamato: "I want leave Wano" "I want sail with Luffy" quoted multiple times in the story and direct confirmation of her intentions

- You: "For dramatic irony, Yamato will follow her father's wishes and protect Wano."



Your arguments vs ours are not equal. You have a massive uphill battle full of assumptions (i.e. Carrot's assumed lookout role or relevancy via Pedro's words), while any Yamato argument is backed by what she ACTUALLY says in the manga, not theorized future roles.

Like I said, all you can hope for is if she asks to join last minute or pulls a stowaway stunt once again. All of your arguments involve telling us to wait wait wait repeatedly and most users here have waited for the moments previously argued that never panned out and now goalposted to something else.

Biggest example i can think of is with Perospero. And no, I'm not talking about her winning, I'm talking about how it FAILED to drive home the relevancy of her character. She had a clear grudge on Perospero, all tied back to Pedro's death and what he said about the dawn and Strawhats.

You know who else had a similar story like this? Brook. Brook had a personal goal with a villain he could NOT win against. Know the difference between Brook vs Ryuuma and Carrot vs Perospero? The former got focus, thematic relevance, and ties to elevating Brook's character (i.e his afro, getting his shadow back). The latter has was offscreened, and when the fight was revisited with Neko, it was offscreened again! Then after Pero's was beaten, Carrot went to hug Neko and said NOTHING about Peros.

I can't man, you guys make this too easy. And for your sake I hope she actually joins. She is a fun character with fun crew dynamics when actually relevant. The problem is, so was Law, Kinemon, Vivi, Momo, Hacchan, Camie, etc.

The only thing I think she has going for her is the tendency to stowaway herself on ships, a gag pulled by Inu and Neko in the past twice. It's been used 3 times between the 3 of them, so maybe it's used again. Sorry, you aren't convincing anyone here with theories and happenstance.

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

Out of all the possible zoan existing, I don't really get why Oda would give a straw hat a devil fruit tied to a specific land with a clearly defined theme as a guardian of said land ?_? Ever the named attacks are all about sacred japanese things. Especially knowing how obscure the Okuchi no Makami is... Defy fate? Wano citizens don't even know Yamato existence and Kaido never intended for her to eat it, and his idea of guardian is completely twisted and is the opposite of what an actual guardian is. It doesn't add up. So again, why not giving her a neutral zoan?

And I don't know if Oda changed his view of seeing things, but reading Alabasta he has a lot of respect for and value that "position/role"

Btw, here's the title of the chapter with Pell sacrifice :

Spoiler

Looking at Kaido dialogue and the fact that there was no mention of a Okuchi no Makami user during Oden flashback, it seems that devil fruit has been lost for some time. Wano retrieving his "lost" animal guardian after Kaido's defeat (malevolent guardian) while still having the threat of the WG would be very symbolic and give them hope.


On last thing, very unlikely for Momo to become the guardian deity on top of being shogun : A guardian spirit is a seperate thing from the ruler, one of the guardian role is to protect the ruler.

 

[Uncle Van]

This is a lie, Carrot is basically a s trawhat without a confirmation. You know it, I know it, EVERYONE knows it. Don't make yourself look less analyst that you are. I already gave one of dozen and dozen of the reasons why go check the post above. but please don't say that kind meaningless stuff like "Carrot is the opposite of a strawhat" that's just bonkers.

Concerning Yamato, the work is in progress, but simply, this affirmation can't be debunked as Yamato was never introduced with a strong strawhat property.

Post automatically merged: Oct 9, 2021

I think I know a bit more about Carrot than you.

Carrot has yet to be a primary focus of an arc unlike a SH

Every SH had some sort of connection to the main villain and needed the SHs to take them out

Every SH had to struggle their whole life while Carrot was happy in Zou without conflict

All the SHs has had great moments and big battles in Wano so far while Cartot gets off screened by Perospero

Give me real arguments for Carrot joining instead of your gut feeling and "because I said so."

 

[dizzy2341]

On last thing, very unlikely for Momo to become the guardian deity on top of being shogun : A guardian spirit is a seperate thing from the ruler, one of the guardian role is to protect the ruler.

This too ^^

She's Momo's guard dog. His doggy defender. His protector pooch. His bitch.

Looking at Kaido dialogue and the fact that there was no mention of a Okuchi no Makami user during Oden flashback, it seems that devil fruit has been lost for some time. Wano retrieving his "lost" animal guardian after Kaido's defeat (malevolent guardian) while still having the threat of the WG would be very symbolic and give them hope.

Even on a symbolic level, Yamao only just now became Wano's guardian. All this time she was chained up with sea prism stone and unable to transform into it. This fight is the very first time she takes on her role as Wano's guardian, a moment marked by her transformation.

 

[Staticshadic]

Out of all the possible zoan existing, I don't really get why Oda would give a straw hat a devil fruit tied to a specific land with a clearly defined theme as a guardian of said land ?_? Ever the named attacks are all about sacred japanese things. Especially knowing how obscure the Okuchi no Makami is... Defy fate? Wano citizens don't even know Yamato existence and Kaido never intended for her to eat it, and his idea of guardian is completely twisted and is the opposite of what an actual guardian is. It doesn't add up. So again, why not giving her a neutral zoan?

And I don't know if Oda changed his view of seeing things, but reading Alabasta he has a lot of respect for and value that "position/role"

Btw, here's the title of the chapter with Pell sacrifice :

Spoiler

Looking at Kaido dialogue and the fact that there was no mention of a Okuchi no Makami user during Oden flashback, it seems that devil fruit has been lost for some time. Wano retrieving his "lost" animal guardian after Kaido's defeat (malevolent guardian) while still having the threat of the WG would be very symbolic and give them hope.


On last thing, very unlikely for Momo to become the guardian deity on top of being shogun : A guardian spirit is a seperate thing from the ruler, one of the guardian role is to protect the ruler.

You’re Also talking about a character who doesn't want to serve under momo at all. she wants to be at service for Luffy she owns him debt. Has always to meet Luffy from very beginning of this raid. The character legitimately abandoned Momo multiple times throughout this raid so far wanted to assist the strawhats anyway she can. You have the minks who are allies with the kozuki clan, the remaining whitebeard pirates who are still alive and wano being under Luffy’s territory momo will be fine. Yamato doesn’t have stay in wano in order help momo. Raizou and remaining the scarbereds will help assist momo anyway they can. His sister could help advise him on how to run the country. Yamato will get much stronger than she is now when she leaves this place she might return someday. Her intention are this once Kaido is defeated she leaving this place be sailing with Luffy. After Luffy defeat her Kaido she has enough motivation to get stronger for Luffy sake and rest strawhats moving forward.

 

[Roosta]

This too ^^

She's Momo's guard dog. His doggy defender. His protector pooch. His bitch.

Even on a symbolic level, Yamao only just now became Wano's guardian. All this time she was chained up with sea prism stone and unable to transform into it. This fight is the very first time she takes on her role as Wano's guardian, a moment marked by her transformation.

I think I'm done here.

 

[dizzy2341]

I think I'm done here.

Lmao. Twas just having a bit of fun. And yeah, I'm dipping too.

 

[Roosta]

Lmao. Twas just having a bit of fun. And yeah, I'm dipping too.

Thanks, I appreciate you saying this.

 

[Adamxero]

Still wondering how all the Anti-Yamato talk is supposed to benefit Carrot somehow.

They don't care I've seen the evolution of the Larrot fan it goes like this:

Larrot Fan: Carrot is definitely going to join she is a look out she has the qualifications bla bla bla Yamato is trash ranked lower in popularity poll.

Oda shits on them and doesn't show Larrot for most of Wano arc.

Larrot Fan: Well maybe both Carrot and Yamato will join why can't they Carrot has built bonds Oda wouldn't just throw that away.

Oda shits on them again making Larrot get neg diff'd off Werospero when she was in Sulong and had help.

Larrot fans now: I hope neither join yeah that'd be better.

Larrot fans have gone through delusion after delusion and as Yamato is welcomed into the crew I look forward to the salt and tears of all the grass eaters

 

[Sigran101]

They don't care I've seen the evolution of the Larrot fan it goes like this:

Larrot Fan: Carrot is definitely going to join she is a look out she has the qualifications bla bla bla Yamato is trash ranked lower in popularity poll.

Oda shits on them and doesn't show Larrot for most of Wano arc.

Larrot Fan: Well maybe both Carrot and Yamato will join why can't they Carrot has built bonds Oda wouldn't just throw that away.

Oda shits on them again making Larrot get neg diff'd off Werospero when she was in Sulong and had help.

Larrot fans now: I hope neither join yeah that'd be better.

Larrot fans have gone through delusion after delusion and as Yamato is welcomed into the crew I look forward to the salt and tears of all the grass eaters

Do you think maybe that's a little harsh? This is why people see the Yamato fanbase as toxic. Let's try not to prove them right.

 

[Kai. Do]

Baffling to me how many times this needs to be stated.

- Carrot has been irrelevant since the 880's. It's been a 150 chapters. People argued for YEARS about her Wano relevance that never came.

- Yamato, a character introduced 20 chapters deep into Act 3, has 6x the amount of paneling than Carrot has gotten this entire arc. She already has almost more paneling in 50 chapters than Carrot has gotten in 200.

- Carrot's Sulong was a "big" deal because it was the first time we saw it. Funny is how it's retroactively not a unique power at all. The 2nd time she used it, Wanda fought with her. Then Neko just upstaged her and Wanda and beat Perospero

- Even her background with Pedro and her revenge is flimsy at best. It's been entirely resolved by a different character.

- Yamato's power entirely overshadows Carrot's lol. It's a permanent, mythical zoan with zero caveats to being a limited power. Carrot literally can't transform on any other time than a full moon.

- Carrot was a small portion of one chapter and the beginning of another to show Sulong. That's it. Yamato had nearly 5 chapters, where 2 chapters were almost essentially focused on her fight with Kaido, with actual named moves. Carrot has only Electro, which is shared by virtually every other member of her race lol. Funny enough is Oda is STILL making Yamato relevant with her powers. Wait until she disposes of the bombs. Who'll stand in her way? What trouble will she continue to get into?

- Carrot has had ZERO personal time with Luffy. Every other strawhat, INCLUDING Yamato has gotten this screentime with Luffy. Zoro, Nami, Usopp and Sanji got it when Luffy first met them or soon after. Chopper got those moments during the fight with Wapol. Robin got it when Luffy saved her life in Alabasta, Franky got it when Luffy fought Lucci and he entrusted Robin's safety to him (sound familiar?). Brook received it with Luffy during the Piano scene after the arc centralized to him and he got his flashback. Jinbe received it post Marineford on Amazon Lily. Yamato got it when Luffy and her first met, followed by ALL of the scenes of acknowledgment the last few chapters where they look at each other and nod. Carrot has NOT gotten this.

- Yamato has verbally expressed leaving with Luffy no less than 4 times already

- Yamato being the protector of Wano is what her FATHER wants, not what she wants. Imagine thinking she'll stay and protect Wano in irony, especially when the 9 scabbards will 100% be alive and fine by the end of the arc and Momo is a Kaido sized dragon.

- Yamato has received the beginnings of a tragic flashback, which all crew members have received, including Jinbe. Carrot has not.

- Yamato has ties to Ace, like Jinbe. Similar to how Usopp has ties to Yasopp, who Luffy knew. Similar to how Brook has ties to Laboon, who they all know.


I really don't get how several users here can just be so far up their own ass in denial at this point. It's really weird. I actually wouldn't mind if Carrot joined, but youre nuts if you think Oda has been trying to state that she's set up to join the last 120 chapters. Yamato on the other hand has had flags planted at every single corner of most chapters showing off her good natured personality, naivete, strength, desire to sail, ADMIRATION for Luffy, ties to Ace, etc.


And no, Momonosuke did not receive remotely the same level of strawhat relevance. He has arc/Saga relevance, there is a massive difference to portrayal here. Nothing about Momo's skillset is warranted a spot on the crew. He's never uttered a word on desiring to sail with Luffy. He's solely has talked about his goal to becoming Shogun, that's it. Ya'll need to start facing reality and actually read the story you put your eyes on.

You want Carrot join? Better to hope she becomes a stowaway and Oda decides to focus on her later. Otherwise she has nothing going for her now

Perfectly summed up. We've all been saying this for the longest time, but i think this is the most succinct and easy to understand take yet.

:cheers:

 

[Adamxero]

Do you think maybe that's a little harsh? This is why people see the Yamato fanbase as toxic. Let's try not to prove them right.

Just pointing out facts

 

[Adam-san]

They don't care I've seen the evolution of the Larrot fan it goes like this:

Larrot Fan: Carrot is definitely going to join she is a look out she has the qualifications bla bla bla Yamato is trash ranked lower in popularity poll.

Oda shits on them and doesn't show Larrot for most of Wano arc.

Larrot Fan: Well maybe both Carrot and Yamato will join why can't they Carrot has built bonds Oda wouldn't just throw that away.

Oda shits on them again making Larrot get neg diff'd off Werospero when she was in Sulong and had help.

Larrot fans now: I hope neither join yeah that'd be better.

Larrot fans have gone through delusion after delusion and as Yamato is welcomed into the crew I look forward to the salt and tears of all the grass eaters

Why would oda ever have a character who has just been introduced join the straw hats? We need to see much much muchhhhh more of yamato to say she will join the straw hats. U can't say she'll join the strawhats because yamato says she wanted to join luffy, luffy still hasn't given her an answer. It could very well be no. I think she'll stay in Wano and assist Momonosuke. Especially with this WG shit coming. Not saying Carrot will join but Yamato fans gotta calm down... Maybe it'll help to just release one out on her side boobs. Like y'all always do.