General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[Logiko]

no it happened with all of them
Yea and Ive already adressed your points to sigran about that. I think I read one of your replies to him...again take your own advice. Ill even link it for you

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...-and-the-grand-fleet.79/page-713#post-2309694

Yes and your answer wasn't good because you didn't understand the concept behind what I was saying.

Honestly I'm too tired to explain to you what an antagonist really is (and you wouldn't even listen to me anyway so) so I'll just say: Go read some book about storytelling and the antagonist. There are very good ones. I highly recommand John's truby "The anatomy of Story". (it's my personnal all time Bible) There is a whole section about the antagonist and it's connection to the protagonist there.

have you ever considered that it’s not the context..it’s just that...idont know youre just not being clear?
i can tell because you can’t understand basic english phrases.

I can't understand ONE basic sentence that look like argo to me so.. sorry for not understanding you, i'm not perfect.

And yes maybe I'm not clear enough that's why I created a blog. To be even clearer in my explanations.

please stop using semantics.. i’m not argueing about the SPECIFIC amount(even though there are more.i.e the crews willing to fight for the fake strawhats thinking it was the real crew.)
But youre point about only strawhats fighting for luffy was debunked with the grand fleet Alone. thats it...if you wanna argue about carrot being a grand fleet member thats a different story.

My point was not "debunked" with the grand fleet. I just completely forgot about them and meaculpaded just after soo.. yeah..

The point is only the strawhats (GF captains+9 SH) are willing to put their entire life on the line for and only for Luffy. That aspect of the story is undeniable. And that's why, at one point or another, Carrot OR Yamato, will have to make the same statement.

No Carrot will never be in the grand fleet. Even if she doesn't join the crew.

OH so you literally don’t understand the english language perfectly.
Why are you trying to lecture people then if you cant even understand basic phrases?

Stop trying to be a D**k please okay ? You wrote an argo phrase that I didn't understand, get over it.

I you can check, I never lecture people on their langage, as I am slighly dyslexic myself. When I don't understand something, I demand a repeat without irony.

Here, I'm only lecturing people about their understanding of the storytelling concepts. This is not a problem of langage.

when did I say a simple clash makes a character an antagonist?


stop putting words in my mouth.

Never said you did. Again, like almost all the people here, you are voluntarily missinterpreting my writings in order to make a point that doesn't exist.
Read again what I wrote. this time without putting yourself as the target.

It was pretty clear the people I mentioned were antagonists by definition.
im not going through all the posts to find what you said. If you wanna link it thats cool.

Too tired to do that. If you wish, I could explain in detail what a real antagonist really is, but, I'd rather do that tomorrow.


One thing you (and many people in the fanbase) have to understand is that One Piece is such a cool a treasure questy story, that people all over the world started to try by themself to predict the future of the story. Sometime with success, but most of the time not.

By trying to decifer the story, some people tried to analyse it.. and therefore tried by themself to apply some basic storytelling concept to it. That's how people started to name ev everything ressembling a prediction of the future "foreshadowing" including drawings or storylines.. That's how poeple became "expert" in character developments or analysis)

The thing is.. those concept, very popular because of their apparent simplicity are not that simple in practice or when we dive deep into them and a LOT of them are used and were used incorrectly (by me included).. because of ignorance of the craft, because or lazyness.. there are multiple factor.

What I'm doing here, and what I tried to do with my blog. Is recenter the usage of those concepts, by explaining in detail what they are really about. I'm not just doing that because I can, but because there is a dire need for more storytelling education in the One Piece community.. starting with some influencer up there in the youtube algorithm..

So, when I say something, it's logical that it appears to you as very strange and unlikely... still, this is the best usage of the words you will see out there. (and trust me, even I need to make some efforts about that).

By taking our example here.. we can see that the fanbase constructed a myth around the concept of antagonist. That "all" the antagonist of the strawhats where defeated by Luffy.. In reality, that's not true.

Only some of the antagonist of the SH were defeated by Luffy, most of them were defeated by others:

- Sanji's antagonist (Gin) was not defeated (technically put out by Krieg)
- Franky antagonist most likely being himself is not defeated yet. only at the end of the story we will see if Franky kept his mind straight about his creation. (and even then, there might be someone (vegapunk) appearing at the end of the story as a real antagonist for Franky.
- Brook's antagonist (Ryuma) was defeated by Zoro
- Jinbe's antagonist being the world gouvernment and the marine, we have yet to see development on that front.


Briefly, the concept of antagonist as to be linked with the concept of opposite values. Also note that we are taking here about "main" antagonist, really, a character can have multiple antagonists.

Post automatically merged: Jan 3, 2022

Ok. I understand, basically you have 2 points.
1 a flag is important and SHs don't have one
2. Bellamy is making an unbreakable one.

So, am I to assume that until they meet bellamy again they won't have a flag?
And how is this relevant to the 10th crewmate?

Actually the SH have all their flag but one, the back one (the one which burned). And even then, this is not sure, I think they have replaced it.

 

[Finalbeta]

49 Momo voters

He was the obvious next Shogun in charge since a long time to me 🤔

 

[Kurozumi D. Trussop]

49 Momo voters

He was the obvious next Shogun in charge since a long time to me 🤔

Yeah, it’s pretty obvious that Momo has been the Vivi of the new world. Travel with the SHs for several arcs but stay in their countries after they’ve been liberated.

Post automatically merged: Jan 4, 2022

Hot take here, if Yamato ends up being a red herring (as unlikely as I think that is), she can only be one in favor of Vivi and no one else.

Vivi has an extensive history with the SHs unmatched by anyone else not to mention the promise made between Vivi and the SHs that she’s still their Nakama. They are for sure gonna meet again.

How is Vivi gonna get to the SHs? Both Kuma and Vivi were at Marijois last we saw. Kuma could have tapped into the last of his humanity and used his powers to transport Vivi (and maybe Sabo) to Luffy.

To me, only Yamato or Vivi have a realistic chance of joining at this late a stage. Carrot isn’t even in the conversation anymore.

 

[Uncle Van]

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...-and-the-grand-fleet.79/page-713#post-2309694

Yes and your answer wasn't good because you didn't understand the concept behind what I was saying.

Honestly I'm too tired to explain to you what an antagonist really is (and you wouldn't even listen to me anyway so) so I'll just say: Go read some book about storytelling and the antagonist. There are very good ones. I highly recommand John's truby "The anatomy of Story". (it's my personnal all time Bible) There is a whole section about the antagonist and it's connection to the protagonist there.



I can't understand ONE basic sentence that look like argo to me so.. sorry for not understanding you, i'm not perfect.

And yes maybe I'm not clear enough that's why I created a blog. To be even clearer in my explanations.

please stop using semantics.. i’m not argueing about the SPECIFIC amount(even though there are more.i.e the crews willing to fight for the fake strawhats thinking it was the real crew.)
But youre point about only strawhats fighting for luffy was debunked with the grand fleet Alone. thats it...if you wanna argue about carrot being a grand fleet member thats a different story.

My point was not "debunked" with the grand fleet. I just completely forgot about them and meaculpaded just after soo.. yeah..

The point is only the strawhats (GF captains+9 SH) are willing to put their entire life on the line for and only for Luffy. That aspect of the story is undeniable. And that's why, at one point or another, Carrot OR Yamato, will have to make the same statement.

No Carrot will never be in the grand fleet. Even if she doesn't join the crew.




Stop trying to be a D**k please okay ? You wrote an argo phrase that I didn't understand, get over it.

I you can check, I never lecture people on their langage, as I am slighly dyslexic myself. When I don't understand something, I demand a repeat without irony.

Here, I'm only lecturing people about their understanding of the storytelling concepts. This is not a problem of langage.




Never said you did. Again, like almost all the people here, you are voluntarily missinterpreting my writings in order to make a point that doesn't exist.
Read again what I wrote. this time without putting yourself as the target.




Too tired to do that. If you wish, I could explain in detail what a real antagonist really is, but, I'd rather do that tomorrow.


One thing you (and many people in the fanbase) have to understand is that One Piece is such a cool a treasure questy story, that people all over the world started to try by themself to predict the future of the story. Sometime with success, but most of the time not.

By trying to decifer the story, some people tried to analyse it.. and therefore tried by themself to apply some basic storytelling concept to it. That's how people started to name ev everything ressembling a prediction of the future "foreshadowing" including drawings or storylines.. That's how poeple became "expert" in character developments or analysis)

The thing is.. those concept, very popular because of their apparent simplicity are not that simple in practice or when we dive deep into them and a LOT of them are used and were used incorrectly (by me included).. because of ignorance of the craft, because or lazyness.. there are multiple factor.

What I'm doing here, and what I tried to do with my blog. Is recenter the usage of those concepts, by explaining in detail what they are really about. I'm not just doing that because I can, but because there is a dire need for more storytelling education in the One Piece community.. starting with some influencer up there in the youtube algorithm..

So, when I say something, it's logical that it appears to you as very strange and unlikely... still, this is the best usage of the words you will see out there. (and trust me, even I need to make some efforts about that).

By taking our example here.. we can see that the fanbase constructed a myth around the concept of antagonist. That "all" the antagonist of the strawhats where defeated by Luffy.. In reality, that's not true.

Only some of the antagonist of the SH were defeated by Luffy, most of them were defeated by others:

- Sanji's antagonist (Gin) was not defeated (technically put out by Krieg)
- Franky antagonist most likely being himself is not defeated yet. only at the end of the story we will see if Franky kept his mind straight about his creation. (and even then, there might be someone (vegapunk) appearing at the end of the story as a real antagonist for Franky.
- Brook's antagonist (Ryuma) was defeated by Zoro
- Jinbe's antagonist being the world gouvernment and the marine, we have yet to see development on that front.


Briefly, the concept of antagonist as to be linked with the concept of opposite values. Also note that we are taking here about "main" antagonist, really, a character can have multiple antagonists.

Post automatically merged: Jan 3, 2022

Actually the SH have all their flag but one, the back one (the one which burned). And even then, this is not sure, I think they have replaced it.

Why do you always claim that you're too lazy or tired to explain something or copy n' paste from your site, but can easily post walls of text multiple times a day?

 

[Logiko]

Why do you always claim that you're too lazy or tired to explain something or copy n' paste from your site, but can easily post walls of text multiple times a day?

OOF.. If I managed to understand that, my life would be completely changed.

The thing is, sometime, writing multiple pages is so eazy that I'm not even realizing the amount of text..

Other time.. writing a mear minimum of two words is as difficult as lifting 100 Kilo of weight. (Remember the post that one time I promised to reply to you to ? Took me a week and a half to write, with the windows always open on the side lol)

My brain is kinda broken.

 

[jordin]

We got a panel like this and people still believe that Vivi is gonna 180 on staying in her country to join the crew permanently. It's clear where her dream is and she wouldn't get that on the seas with Luffy.

 

[Kurozumi D. Trussop]

We got a panel like this and people still believe that Vivi is gonna 180 on staying in her country to join the crew permanently. It's clear where her dream is and she wouldn't get that on the seas with Luffy.

Imu has clearly shown an interest in Vivi as seen in the Leveley Arc when he was holding her picture. I don't think it's far fetched to think that her life could be in danger or Alabasta be at risk of a world government takeover to find Pluton. I could see a scenario in which she needs to travel with the SHs to get the One Piece and fight the World Government to save her country.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Vivi will lead the army of alabasta in the final battle, member of the fleet IMHO.

Nah Vivi won’t return to Alabasta. Koza will lead the army

Post automatically merged: Jan 4, 2022

We got a panel like this and people still believe that Vivi is gonna 180 on staying in her country to join the crew permanently. It's clear where her dream is and she wouldn't get that on the seas with Luffy.

Not if Imu who killed her father puts Alabasta directly under the WG command. Her dream will be to free her home and no one else but Luffy can be trusted with that

 

[jordin]

Imu has clearly shown an interest in Vivi as seen in the Leveley Arc when he was holding her picture. I don't think it's far fetched to think that her life could be in danger or Alabasta be at risk of a world government takeover to find Pluton. I could see a scenario in which she needs to travel with the SHs to get the One Piece and fight the World Government to save her country.

If it's an issue with her life being in danger, the SHs would pretty much be escorting her back to Alabasta, which is no different than how it was pre timeskip. I don't see why she has to join the crew permanently to do that.

If it's Alabasta being in danger instead, that would literally be the same story arc as pre timeskip but swapping the world government instead of Crocodile. It's in the same vein as Sabo being captured so that Luffy does a Marineford 2.0 but with Sabo. It's unlikely Oda is gonna repeat that.

 

[Sigran101]

@CarrotForNakama I think there's been a breakdown in communication here. You keep responding to arguments by telling people they're not looking at the whole story or missing subtext, but not explaining what specific moments or panels you're refering to. It's not going to change anyone's mind, because it seems like you're just avoiding the question because you don't have an answer. I know that's not how you intend it, but that's how it's coming across. I think it would be helpful for a more constructive discussion if you explain which specific moments and panels you think people are missing when you say they are missing subtext or not looking at the whole story. I know you've already done that on your blog, but many people don't read your blog when you post it, and those that do (myself included) can't easily respond to it here since we can't just quote it and insert text, and it's hard to tell which specific point in your blog you're reffering to when you link it because it usually takes us to a large article that doesn't all relate to the current point. Giving panels or describing specific lines or moments instead of linking your blog or giving a general statement about context would help things go a lot more smoothly.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

If it's an issue with her life being in danger, the SHs would pretty much be escorting her back to Alabasta, which is no different than how it was pre timeskip. I don't see why she has to join the crew permanently to do that.

If it's Alabasta being in danger instead, that would literally be the same story arc as pre timeskip but swapping the world government instead of Crocodile. It's in the same vein as Sabo being captured so that Luffy does a Marineford 2.0 but with Sabo. It's unlikely Oda is gonna repeat that.

The difference would be that the world government already succeeded in taking over the country whereas they stopped croc before he did. So instead of stopping it, it’s about vivi taking her country back.

Anyone thinking vivi is just going to go back to Alabasta casually after Imu showed a desire to kill her is going to be disappointed.

 

[Logiko]

@CarrotForNakama I think there's been a breakdown in communication here. You keep responding to arguments by telling people they're not looking at the whole story or missing subtext, but not explaining what specific moments or panels you're refering to. It's not going to change anyone's mind, because it seems like you're just avoiding the question because you don't have an answer.

You might be right, the thing is, I'm trying to cover so much concept, that explaining everything in detail is almost impossible (I'm just glossing over the concepts here and I'm already making wall of texts), that's why i'm always linking my blog. I have the chapter breakdown there. And for some concept, I just don't have an analysis yet (because mostly I don't need it), the antagonist for example. (that I will talk about today if you guy really want it.)

I know that's not how you intend it, but that's how it's coming across. I think it would be helpful for a more constructive discussion if you explain which specific moments and panels you think people are missing when you say they are missing subtext or not looking at the whole story. I know you've already done that on your blog, but many people don't read your blog when you post it, and those that do (myself included) can't easily respond to it here since we can't just quote it and insert text, and it's hard to tell which specific point in your blog you're reffering to when you link it because it usually takes us to a large article that doesn't all relate to the current point. Giving panels or describing specific lines or moments instead of linking your blog or giving a general statement about context would help things go a lot more smoothly.

hm, I see.. Well I will try to post more panel and analysis here. Maybe copy paste some of my blog stuff like I did for the subversion dialogues

 

[jordin]

The difference would be that the world government already succeeded in taking over the country whereas they stopped croc before he did. So instead of stopping it, it’s about vivi taking her country back.

So Luffy would take his friend back to her country then beat up whoever is there in opposition. He's leaving Wano as a full fledged yonko and he has the ability to claim countries as his territory. Btw, this is all assuming the WG would take over Alabasta when nothing has been confirmed about it. All that's been stated was there being an incident with the Alabasta kingdom. Garp said nothing about the kingdom being taken over. Just that the navy are resolving the issue.

Anyone thinking vivi is just going to go back to Alabasta casually after Imu showed a desire to kill her is going to be disappointed.

Where did he show a desire to kill her? If anyone, it would be Shirahoshi since he literally stabbed a pic of her. She's also at risk because of Charlos wanting her. Celestial dragons go out of their way to get what they want.

(To say this here, I'm not anti Vivi or against her joining. I'm just discussing my problems I have with the idea. This is 5x more interesting to me than talking about Carrot)

 

[Garp the Fist]

Imu might not want Vivi dead like the others they had pictures of, but I think she’s in more danger from them that Luffy, Blackbeard or Shirahoshi is.

Because we’ve seen despite Shirahoshi being in Mariejois, she was able to get out without much bother. Whereas something bad has happened to Vivi.

Imu’s feelings for Luffy, Blackbeard and Shirahoshi seem to be strong hatred, but they seem to want Vivi for some other purpose, and that is probably more dangerous.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

So Luffy would take his friend back to her country then beat up whoever is there in opposition. He's leaving Wano as a full fledged yonko and he has the ability to claim countries as his territory. Btw, this is all assuming the WG would take over Alabasta when nothing has been confirmed about it. All that's been stated was there being an incident with the Alabasta kingdom. Garp said nothing about the kingdom being taken over. Just that the navy are resolving the issue.

Where did he show a desire to kill her? If anyone, it would be Shirahoshi since he literally stabbed a pic of her. She's also at risk because of Charlos wanting her. Celestial dragons go out of their way to get what they want.

(To say this here, I'm not anti Vivi or against her joining. I'm just discussing my problems I have with the idea. This is 5x more interesting to me than talking about Carrot)

To me it all just seems to intentional:

1. Bringing back Vivi after two years and her saying how much she’s missed the sea - Could’ve just been fanservice

2. Deaths occurred at the Reverie involving the kingdom of alabasta - Plot point has opened

3. Imu is shown holding a picture of Vivi in his hands. The only other pictures we see Imu with is Luffy (future King of the pirates), Blackbeard (Another strong contender and a major villain), and Shirahoshi (An ancient Weapon) - Vivis importance to the future plot is cemented

4. This situation also involves Sabo - Luffys brother and holder of Luffys Vivre Card

Just too much is aligned for Vivi to return to Luffy. Even if it’s as you said that Vivi would just be getting a ride with Luffy back to Alabasta, Luffys in the deep part of the new world Vivi would have to join them in Raftel because it’s impossible to sail backwards in the new world without a vivre card.

 

[jordin]

Because we’ve seen despite Shirahoshi being in Mariejois, she was able to get out without much bother. Whereas something bad has happened to Vivi.

We're not sure something bad happened to Vivi and if it prevented her from leaving. The only thing stated was that the Alabasta kingdom had an incident and there was an attempted murder. Last we saw of Vivi, she was with Pell and she was already given protection by Mjosgard to prevent anymore mishaps like with Shirahoshi. If something did happen that lead to her being captured despite this, Garp would've mentioned it.

Imu’s feelings for Luffy, Blackbeard and Shirahoshi seem to be strong hatred, but they seem to want Vivi for some other purpose, and that is probably more dangerous.

Imu most likely knows Shirahoshi is an ancient weapon so she can't be written off as some grudge. A lot of this is hard to argue concretely since its all in the air. The only thing Oda said was that Vivi, Sabo and Boa will deal with something grim. Both Vivi and Sabo were in the same place and same position of danger (arguably more to Sabo given the reaction to his news).

2. Deaths occurred at the Reverie involving the kingdom of alabasta - Plot point has opened

It was never said to involve the alabasta kingdom. We also don't know if Morgans was trying to clickbait because he said right after that it was an attempted murder.

Just too much is aligned for Vivi to return to Luffy. Even if it’s as you said that Vivi would just be getting a ride with Luffy back to Alabasta, Luffys in the deep part of the new world Vivi would have to join them in Raftel because it’s impossible to sail backwards in the new world without a vivre card.

Every kingdom is able to sail to Mariejois then go back to their country without going to laugh tale. Why does Vivi have to?

 

[Sir Yasheen]

We're not sure something bad happened to Vivi and if it prevented her from leaving. The only thing stated was that the Alabasta kingdom had an incident and there was an attempted murder. Last we saw of Vivi, she was with Pell and she was already given protection by Mjosgard to prevent anymore mishaps like with Shirahoshi. If something did happen that lead to her being captured despite this, Garp would've mentioned it.

Imu most likely knows Shirahoshi is an ancient weapon so she can't be written off as some grudge. A lot of this is hard to argue concretely since its all in the air. The only thing Oda said was that Vivi, Sabo and Boa will deal with something grim. Both Vivi and Sabo were in the same place and same position of danger (arguably more to Sabo given the reaction to his news).

It was never said to involve the alabasta kingdom. We also don't know if Morgans was trying to clickbait because he said right after that it was an attempted murder.

Every kingdom is able to sail to Mariejois then go back to their country without going to laugh tale. Why does Vivi have to?

1. It’s likely Garp did mention it; we just as the audience cut away as Garp was talking about it for tension. It’s the same reason we cut away while people were reading the newspaper about Sabo. We’re designed to find out with Luffy what happened to his friends.

2. It’s very likely Oda killed Kobra. Kobra himself was mentioning how Vivi should find a husband before he dies so she can take over Alabasta as Queen soon. This was a pretty big foreshadowing moment imo.

3. We know that it’s information that the World government is trying to silence. And I doubt Oda would use “death at the reverie” for clickbait.

4. They had eternal poses to their home, if Vivi is on the run like she very likely is, it’s likely she no longer had the pose as it would have been destroyed in the attempted murder.

5. Garp said that the reverie breaking out on violence isn’t necessarily a new thing but this year was different in regards to Alabasta: alluding that the death occurring was someone from the Alabasta country

 

[jordin]

1. It’s likely Garp did mention it; we just as the audience cut away as Garp was talking about it for tension. It’s the same reason we cut away while people were reading the newspaper about Sabo. We’re designed to find out with Luffy what happened to his friends.

2. It’s very likely Oda killed Kobra. Kobra himself was mentioning how Vivi should find a husband before he dies so she can take over Alabasta as Queen soon. This was a pretty big foreshadowing moment imo.

3. We know that it’s information that the World government is trying to silence. And I doubt Oda would use “death at the reverie” for clickbait.

4. They had eternal poses to their home, if Vivi is on the run like she very likely is, it’s likely she no longer had the pose as it would have been destroyed in the attempted murder.

5. Garp said that the reverie breaking out on violence isn’t necessarily a new thing but this year was different in regards to Alabasta: alluding that the death occurring was someone from the Alabasta country

See, the problem with a lot of the points being made is that it relies on the cards falling just right.

Garp has to cut off by chance about Vivi being captured when he could've said that immediately. Kobra has to be killed when Garp only said there was an incident. A murder being called an incident. Morgans has to not be clickbaiting when he's known for exaggerating news and he contradicted himself in the next sentence by calling it an attempted murder. Vivi just so happens to lose the eternal pose that leads back to Alabasta (though Nami has a world map so its not like she needs it anyway).

It's too much imo and feels like forcing Vivi to join the crew permanently when she wouldn't otherwise.

5. Garp said that the reverie breaking out on violence isn’t necessarily a new thing but this year was different in regards to Alabasta: alluding that the death occurring was someone from the Alabasta country

To clarify this, Garp said its normal for there to be chaos in discussing and for them to not get along. Nothing about violence. In fact, he specifically says "As long as no blood is spilled, I'm willing to call it peace." He never said this meeting was bad because of something with Alabasta either.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

See, the problem with a lot of the points being made is that it relies on the cards falling just right.

Garp has to cut off by chance about Vivi being captured when he could've said that immediately. Kobra has to be killed when Garp only said there was an incident. A murder being called an incident. Morgans has to not be clickbaiting when he's known for exaggerating news and he contradicted himself in the next sentence by calling it an attempted murder. Vivi just so happens to lose the eternal pose that leads back to Alabasta (though Nami has a world map so its not like she needs it anyway).

It's too much imo and feels like forcing Vivi to join the crew permanently when she wouldn't otherwise.


To clarify this, Garp said its normal for there to be chaos in discussing and for them to not get along. Nothing about violence. In fact, he specifically says "As long as no blood is spilled, I'm willing to call it peace." He never said this meeting was bad because of something with Alabasta either.

1. He does cut off. You see it in the chapter:
“As long as no blood is spilled, I’d count it as “peaceful” but this time was different. I should have told you earlier, but there’s something you’re unaware of. After the reverie ended, right after we left there was an incident. The marines are doing their utmost to resolve it. It’s regarding the kingdom of Alabasta”

Shirahoshi: “Huh, Vivi?”

Then we fade away to a different scene. Garp was in the midst of telling them, but since we won’t get to know before Luffy we don’t get to see.

Then we go to Morgan’s:

“There was a death at the reverie”

This matches with what Garp said earlier and from their we can assume it was a death of a member of Alabasta. After Morgan said that he thought about the best way to present it to sell papers. An obituary or talking about an assassination attempt.

So it’s not just Morgan lying, a death did occur as Garp said he wouldn’t call this peaceful then went on to discuss that “an incident occurred with Alabasta.”

That’s not pieces falling perfectly, that’s just what happened.

2. Kobra stating he’s not long for this world on the way to the Reverie is clear foreshadowing as well.

3. There’s also the foreshadowing of Sabo joining Luffy as his Oden character and with Sabo being joined by a princess connected to the world government, this is becoming much more clear.

4. It’s not about the map of the world: it’s about navigation. Nami can’t turn the ship around as the log pose only points to the next islands. And if CP0 or the Gorosei was attempting to assassinate Vivi, they’d absolutely destroy any eternal pose to ensure she had no where to escape to.

Vivi returning to Alabasta honestly doesn’t make any sense anymore with the story. If Pell or her father died to protect her, she’d never return to Alabasta because she wouldn’t put her citizens at risk because of her. That’s been her character since the start, she takes the burdens so others don’t have to.

It’d also be out of character for Luffy to just take her home beat someone up and leave, because Luffy would know that the danger isn’t whoever’s stationed in Alabasta, it’s the world government who killed people who were nice to them.

Vivi has a clear dream and a spot on the crew already. She’s the most likely person to join right now out of anyone.

 

[jordin]

1. He does cut off. You see it in the chapter:
“As long as no blood is spilled, I’d count it as “peaceful” but this time was different. I should have told you earlier, but there’s something you’re unaware of. After the reverie ended, right after we left there was an incident. The marines are doing their utmost to resolve it. It’s regarding the kingdom of Alabasta”

Shirahoshi: “Huh, Vivi?”

Then we fade away to a different scene. Garp was in the midst of telling them, but since we won’t get to know before Luffy we don’t get to see.

Then we go to Morgan’s:

“There was a death at the reverie”

This matches with what Garp said earlier and from their we can assume it was a death of a member of Alabasta. After Morgan said that he thought about the best way to present it to sell papers. An obituary or talking about an assassination attempt.

So it’s not just Morgan lying, a death did occur as Garp said he wouldn’t call this peaceful then went on to discuss that “an incident occurred with Alabasta.”

That’s not pieces falling perfectly, that’s just what happened.

2. Kobra stating he’s not long for this world on the way to the Reverie is clear foreshadowing as well.

3. There’s also the foreshadowing of Sabo joining Luffy as his Oden character and with Sabo being joined by a princess connected to the world government, this is becoming much more clear.

4. It’s not about the map of the world: it’s about navigation. Nami can’t turn the ship around as the log pose only points to the next islands. And if CP0 or the Gorosei was attempting to assassinate Vivi, they’d absolutely destroy any eternal pose to ensure she had no where to escape to.

Vivi returning to Alabasta honestly doesn’t make any sense anymore with the story. If Pell or her father died to protect her, she’d never return to Alabasta because she wouldn’t put her citizens at risk because of her. That’s been her character since the start, she takes the burdens so others don’t have to.

It’d also be out of character for Luffy to just take her home beat someone up and leave, because Luffy would know that the danger isn’t whoever’s stationed in Alabasta, it’s the world government who killed people who were nice to them.

Vivi has a clear dream and a spot on the crew already. She’s the most likely person to join right now out of anyone.

Instead of discussing what is mostly speculation and ran on assumptions on both of our parts, I'll ask the questions we can more concretely answer.

1) How could Vivi make up for the enormous gap in strength she has with the current crew? Not only could she not fight the baroque officers that the weakling trio could back then, she's had 0 training in the last 2 years. She has no haki, no df, and no specialized training that could make her anywhere near comparable to the opponents the SHs will fight in the endgame. She'd only be a liability.

2) If Oda always had plans for Vivi to join the crew regardless, why didn't he let her join in Alabasta? The whole point of her sacrifice was that her dream was to be with her people. Thats why she asked if she could still be called a nakama despite not being with them. It doesn't make sense for there to then be this 2 decade long delay and branding her as a former/honorary strawhat when this same Im plotline and Alabasta incident would've happened if she was with the crew in Wano.