Fanclub Critics Club

[Chrono]

Luffy VS Crocodile R3 was lackluster. Crocodile takes hits like a bitch and doesn't use his sand power until the end. Where was the Crocodile who effortlessly dodged Luffy's attacks in R2? Glad when Oda brought him back, he one-shots a Jailer Beast with Jimbei and tanks a powerful attack from a high tier.

Yh Croc was extremely nerfed in the last fight

 

[Jackteo]

The answer is both yes and no. Oda has this curiously weird habit of dragging out pointless crap, and then running at breakneck speed through the stuff we'd like to slow down

Thjs

 

[Finalbeta]

Yh Croc was extremely nerfed in the last fight

It's a shame since Croco boi's character was never meant for the underdoghood

 

[Homelander]

I think people should judge wano once arc finishes. Overall i would rate wano higher than wci.

 

[Owl Ki]

Just putting the contents of a post of mine here since the thread it was on got locked and I can no longer quote it. Besides, this thread looks like it is need of some activity.

I find one of the biggest problems with Luffy’s character in general, is that his motivation is not truly fleshed out and at times seems rather hollow.

His goal is to be Pirate King because of two supposed reasons;

I) The promise between him and Shanks.

II) Luffy perceives the Pirate King as the individual with the most freedom.

Spoiler: Regarding reason #1

The problem with reason number one is that Luffy made the declaration of becoming the Pirate King before he made the promise to Shanks.

Spoiler: Regarding reason #1

Spoiler

Before this, Luffy only stated that he had intentions of becoming a pirate in general, a pirate under Shanks at that.

Spoiler

This means that Luffy basically declared his intention to be Pirate King because Shanks refused to allow him on his crew and triggered him.

As for Shanks, he only states that Luffy should return the hat to him when he is “a great pirate”.

Spoiler

In short, Luffy’s motivation regarding his desire to be Pirate King is actually quite shallow. The promise between him and Shanks also fails to establish why Luffy desired to be a pirate in the first place.

Spoiler: Regarding reason 2

The greatest problem with this supposed reason is very simple.

Spoiler: Regarding reason 2

At no point has Luffy ever established his opinion on what exactly he perceives “freedom” to be.

If one were to generalize the concept of “freedom” then you would find two basic types.

I) Freedom from. This is the desire to leave behind that which one deems obstructive to one’s happiness/quality of life in some way.

II) Freedom to. This is the desire to do what one seeks to achieve in life which in turn will contribute to one’s happiness/quality of life.

These may seem similar but they are different.

For example, through being a pirate, Luffy is no longer bound by any law of any nation thus he has freedom to do anything he pleases.

However, in becoming a pirate, Luffy is now unwelcome in most civilized territories and is consistently hounded by the Navy and bounty hunters. As captain he is also responsible for the burden of protecting his crew and giving the final order on what course of action to take. Benn Beckman pointed this out to Luffy (albeit somewhat jokingly since Luffy was a child at the time).

Spoiler

In short, Luffy has denied himself freedom from both increased responsibility and the entire judicial/law enforcement system.

The problem with all this is that all Luffy sought to do is have nakama and adventure which he could have done without being a pirate.

So why did Luffy desire to become a pirate?

When he lived with the mountain bandits he was completely free from any and all typical societal responsibilities. The World Government did not even know of his existence. So what was there for him to seek freedom from?

All Luffy has ever stated to desire (beside the tenuous goal of becoming the Pirate King) is a loyal crew and adventure. The thing is, there is no law or societal responsibility preventing Luffy from doing this legally.

For example, Montblanc Noland was a famous adventurer, funded by governments to find new land with the assistance of a loyal crew. In fact, even becoming a Marine would have allowed for both adventure and a loyal crew. So what freedom to was Luffy seeking?

Again, why did he desire to become a pirate?

Also, why does he perceive the Pirate King to be the “man with the most freedom” when seeking such a title means upholding a duty to crush any challengers to the title (of which there are many) as well as being the most wanted man in the world thus being hunted down with extreme prejudice by all law enforcement organisations?

Ultimately, the first thing that would need to be fixed before anything else is a proper, established character motivation and an explanation as to why Luffy desired to be a pirate from a young age and why he desires to be the Pirate King specifically.

Edit: The spoiler tags are flipping out on me and I have no idea why. Lol.

Edited edit: MangaSee images are not permanent, so I have replaced them.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Not to drag the spoilers for the newest chapter (972?) into this, but why does it feel like we've spent 60 chapters in Wano yet we've barely progressed the plot and have a shallow understanding of both Wano's culture and the Beast Pirates? What were those chapters filled with?

 

[Beerbottle]

Not to drag the spoilers for the newest chapter (972?) into this, but why does it feel like we've spent 60 chapters in Wano yet we've barely progressed the plot and have a shallow understanding of both Wano's culture and the Beast Pirates? What were those chapters filled with?

Pretty much nothing... Whatever mystical awe inspiring mood Oda tried to build around Oden all those years ago through his son have all been for naught.

 

[Lion of Olympus]

Toei is by far the worst after this new episode

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Toei is by far the worst after this new episode

 

[Gran D. Master]

Ahem

Wano? More like Guano

 

[dirtyLarry]

Both arcs are actually very good after re-reading them.

My only problem is WCI's second half, that dragged and had a few too many plot conveniences for my taste. Outside of that it has been great.

I swear today's generation would've gone apeshit and full bitch-mode, if they had to read through the East Blue saga, Baroque works saga or Skypiea on a weekly basis btw.

 

[Blackbeard]

Not to drag the spoilers for the newest chapter (972?) into this, but why does it feel like we've spent 60 chapters in Wano yet we've barely progressed the plot and have a shallow understanding of both Wano's culture and the Beast Pirates? What were those chapters filled with?

filled with bullshit

 

[Paperchampion23]

It shouldve been aparent in WCI with how he treated Smoothie. He makes the excuse that he doesnt know how to incorporate her. But the truth is he likes females as beautiful cheerleaders. Nami seems to be the only exception and I think that has something to do with his wife tho. But then again Nami never gets hurt anymore anyways.

Late to this party but wait and see how the Wano War goes officially. The rest of the BMP may have been saved to be factors during the War (Smoothie/her twin sisters and Campote hopefully will all have some sort of presence). And HOPEFULLY, everyone is pushed to their limits this arc finally.

Anyway, I just read through a lot of grievances in this thread and definitely people dislike Wano from the last 60 chapters. I just wanted to say that we should all definitely wait and see how Oda draws this War. It could be everything people want from it. He has gone on record for saying it will make Marineford look like child's play. Maybe we can hopefully expect to see all the strawhats finally go all out, all of the BMP's get their moments, especially Smoothie, and all of the big character moments people have wanted for the last 200 chapters.

I definitely understand everyone's concerns, hopefully Oda pays it back in full with the next 50-60 chapters this war should deliver.

Edit: And no, I'm not confident, just hopeful it will finally happen. Its 300 chapters of payoff finally happening now.

 

[Don DaSlayer]

WCI was a garbage ass arc. Horrible villains. The fcking Lig Meme pirates.

 

[Buusatan94]

One thing I hated in Enies Lobby arc is that none of the Straw Hats allies died because of the Buster Call, every member of Galley-la-Cie, the Franky Family and the giant survived thanks to a complete BS way.

 

[DarkWitch]

If there is one thing I hate is Oda making a sad backstory for a character then killing that character off, only to bring that character back to life again and unfortunately it seems like Oda did that with Pound.

I get that Pound wasn't outright confirmed dead and him being alive was always still there, but the way Oda set everything up with Pound and his sacrifice was a perfect way to end his character. Now that whole chapter with Pound seems like a waste, if Oda didn't show that sad backstory but still did the whole "death" scene with Pound then I wouldn't have cared if he came back to life.

I don't get why Oda has issues killing off characters that aren't Ace, Whitebeard, and flashback characters, if you look at other mangaka's like for example Yaiba and MHA they have no problem killing off characters and yet Oda himself can't even kill off minor characters.

 

[Cinera]

A well formulated critique of Pound's return by @Charlotte Horchata:

Pound being alive is just a narrative disgrace.

The amount of inconsistencies, plot holes and overall damage to Whole Cake's quality that this single detail poses is incredible. First of all, I'm not the kind of reader that needs One Piece to become darker and increase its number of deaths. Sure, it could add some realism and increase the sense of threat (to a certain extent because the Straw Hats are safe anyways), but I can live without that. The problem rises when Oda makes us believe that he has killed someone but he turns out to be alive.

Now, this isn't something new, as we all know. Pell and Pagaya are the two great examples of this bad vice. But their cases could be kind of explained: as a hawk, Pell is able to fly at amazing speed and far from the bomb (which still affected him), and Enel's lightning, while impressive, was never shown to be that lethal to those who suffered it. Don't get me wrong: I'd have rather they'd be dead, of course, because them surviving is a significant backstab to the emotional trace that their arcs could have left.

Pound's case is actually completely different. First, because there's no way to properly explain how he survived. He was about to get slashed by a very pirate, tiers ahead of his, that not only was powerful but was going for the neck. This detail is very important because, following the Queen of Hearts theme, there seems to be a liking for beheading among the Big Mom Pirates: Linlin sends the heads of loved ones to those who won't attend her parties and both Cracker and Oven were clearly going for the neck when they were about to execute Pound; the only difference is that, in this situation, there was no Luffy to save him.

His sacrifice was a way to reinforce the dangerousness of the Big Mom Pirates. I'm not a proponent of the whole Big Meme thing, and the empress crew seemed to be very competent if we ignore the disadvantages of facing plot-armored characters. In order to survive them Luffy needed betrayals of significant subordinates (Jinbe, Pudding, Pekoms, Bege), a big amount of luck (Tamatebako), specific counters (Nami can control weather and Brook is the natural enemy of homies) and, what is more important, actual sacrifices. Pedro blowed himself up, Pound won some time against Oven, Pekoms is either blind or dead as of now (well, he should) and the Vinsmokes and Sun Pirates had to risk their lives.

So Pound being alive, first of all, creates an inconsistency on why Oven decided not to behead him. Second, it damages the perceived dangerousness of Whole Cake and the Big Mom Pirates and their impact on us as readers. But this isn't as bad as what comes next, which is the biggest issue with this, in my opinion:

Oda won't let us experience negative emotions.

Like a condescending, over-protective dad that won't let us feel bad things, I feel like he more than usual falls on the mistake of not appreciate the pleasure of a bittersweet resolution. Even his saddest event, arguably Ace's death, was ultimately eased up by the introduction of the unnecessary Sabo. Pound's not-anymore-death was a delight of a chapter and a true exercise of literature: a weak, wiped out man who lost the most precious things to him because he never understood the actual nature of his relationship with Linlin. This ugly, funny-looking loser dressed in rags would finally have his great moment of absolute dignity, the dignity he always deserved, by saving his daughter and grandson even though that'd mean giving his life for them. The scene in which Pound adjusts his tie while smiling as the flaming blade approaches his neck is so simple yet so pure, so strong, and it becomes even better because only Pez is "aware" of this.

This cover page is an insult from Oda to his own work, and I sincerely feel like something is very wrong with him as a writer. This isn't my only reason to think such thing (other issues are how he commented on trying to always subvert the reader's expectations or how he improvises an arc in the middle of it to the point of losing the control of the events), but I can't even begin to understand how this man can be so oblivious to the literary quality he produces that he thinks it is necessary or even good to bring this man back. Sure, it will grant us a beautiful scene of reunion with his family and blah, blah, blah; but this will never, ever be as emotionally impactful and meritorious as the bittersweet scene of his sacrifice; and I'm starting to think that this man isn't good enough of a writer to properly understand the value of sadness.

I'm legitimately disappointed with Oda.

 

[DarkWitch]

Unfortunately some people are going to defend this bs writing from Oda, because Goda is a perfect writer and everything he writes is perfect.

I love One Piece and I usually don't get critical, but it's stuff like Pound being alive that really proves that Oda is not a perfect mangaka like some people say he is.

 

[Buusatan94]

The way Zeff and the hostage plot was resolved in WCI arc doesn't make any sense since it wasn't Judge who was threatening Zeff but BM and her relations so Judge promising to not touch or go anywhere near East Blue didn't resolve anything. Also there was no use for the explosive bracelet thing.

 

[Chrono]

The way Zeff and the hostage plot was resolved in WCI arc doesn't make any sense since it wasn't Judge who was threatening Zeff but BM and her relations so Judge promising to not touch or go anywhere near East Blue didn't resolve anything. Also there was no use for the explosive bracelet thing.

Yh it makes Sanji's earlier struggles in WCI not as important. The Zeff plotline was more easily resolved then the handcuffs....to the extent it wasnt even brought up again mid WCI.

And because of that bad writing....Oda gave fuel to the people who were saying Zeff shouldnt be as important to Sanji as the SHs are. Like if you believe SHs are >> Zeff in Sanji's mind. Then just shut up lol. Zeff is pretty much his father whos raised him. Sanji got shit for leaving the SHs to protect Zeff. Yet Luffy gave zero fucks about the SHs when they all split up and couldve been possibly dead....after Kuma seperated them. Once Luffy heard of Ace's excecution, the SHs were the last thing on his mind. To the point he had to be reminded that they exist by Jinbe. Yet Sanji isnt allowed to protect the man who raised him. Fuck yall lmaoo.