General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[Ballel]

You are right, we are indeed not talking about the same thing.




That I can understand. But this was not my point. This was not a comparison of Comics VS Manga, but a takes on the author's will on their stories. And the fact that even if the codes are not respected or done fully, there will always be a way for a protagonist like character to win the day if the author chooses so. That's why we can't agree here.

In short the problem here is not the will of the author, it's a problem of doing a good preparation for those storyline.

For example. A fist fight between Arrow and Superman would not make sence.. UNLESS you prepare the character and the fight well. Like giving Kyptonite to Queen.

In other words: Inconsistancy in the powerscaling is not about the author's wish, it's about the quality of the story.

And in One Piece as long as the story stays good.. everything is possible.



It's accurante when we are talking about the base principal of story creation like I was. But indeed, the conversation here are too different to be understood.




I agree, that was just a thought experiment. I highly doubt that he would do that too, but if he had to.. there are a lot of creative ways to do it.




Yes.



She did in the context of the fight.

And like I said.. a cahracter won't always use his best attacks.

Doing ht best you can do =/= using your best moves.

That's called being human. The story would feel inorganic if Big Mom were to uses constantly her best moves. Not to say less believable as she was fighting for a long time too with less stamina.



That's called defeating someone

Carrot won't join.

 

[Logiko]

Carrot won't join.

 

[Sigran101]

You are right, we are indeed not talking about the same thing.




That I can understand. But this was not my point. This was not a comparison of Comics VS Manga, but a takes on the author's will on their stories. And the fact that even if the codes are not respected or done fully, there will always be a way for a protagonist like character to win the day if the author chooses so. That's why we can't agree here.

In short the problem here is not the will of the author, it's a problem of doing a good preparation for those storyline.

For example. A fist fight between Arrow and Superman would not make sence.. UNLESS you prepare the character and the fight well. Like giving Kyptonite to Queen.

In other words: Inconsistancy in the powerscaling is not about the author's wish, it's about the quality of the story.

And in One Piece as long as the story stays good.. everything is possible.



It's accurante when we are talking about the base principal of story creation like I was. But indeed, the conversation here are too different to be understood.




I agree, that was just a thought experiment. I highly doubt that he would do that too, but if he had to.. there are a lot of creative ways to do it.




Yes.



She did in the context of the fight.

And like I said.. a cahracter won't always use his best attacks.

Doing ht best you can do =/= using your best moves.

That's called being human. The story would feel inorganic if Big Mom were to uses constantly her best moves. Not to say less believable as she was fighting for a long time too with less stamina.



That's called defeating someone

Oh, no I agree with your point about storytelling. I meant that Jo wasn't using the term right, not you. Not that Jo was wrong, because like we said you weren't talking about the same thing.

 

[Animangaboy]

in the case of a Yamato VS Carrot fan. The winner will be the one Oda chooses to be.

And not to mention yamato is a mythical zoan devil fruit rare ice user too also With ACOC with only the strongest has 👀
Meanwhile carrot is a sulong with electricity what carrot has that can beat Yamato? Like come on stop capping and look at the bags of character skills 👀😭

Post automatically merged: Apr 23, 2022

Yes.

I know u would say that 😂

Post automatically merged: Apr 23, 2022

That's called being human. The story would feel inorganic if Big Mom were to uses constantly her best moves. Not to say less believable as she was fighting for a long time too with less stamina

Hmmmm, there are many ways bigmom could've won but Oda didn't because if she did beat law and kidd she would have to go on the roof where kaido and luffy were to kill luffy that's why Oda didn't make Bigmom go all out in the fight cause what kidd and law was hitting with wasn't enough to bring her down😩 Kidd uses his trump card and she was literally smirking while taking the attack like its nothing and you saying that they “OFFICIALLY” beat her 😭😭

 

[Logiko]

Oh, no I agree with your point about storytelling. I meant that Jo wasn't using the term right, not you. Not that Jo was wrong, because like we said you weren't talking about the same thing.

oh ok

And not to mention yamato is a mythical zoan devil fruit rare ice user too also With ACOC with only the strongest has 👀
Meanwhile carrot is a sulong with electricity what carrot has that can beat Yamato? Like come on stop capping and look at the bags of character skills 👀😭

Ultimately there is no answer to that question until you see the actual fight. That's why powerscaling as always felt a little bit short for me.

It much more efficient to see the relationship between powers like a huge web of possibilities.

For example it's very probable that the fruit of Perona acts as the ultimate weapon against every one in the lore.. still.. Usopp can beat her. Does this mean Usopp is at the top chain ? No. It just mean Usopp is the worst ennemy FOR Perona.

Hmmmm, there are many ways bigmom could've won but Oda didn't because if she did beat law and kidd she would have to go on the roof where kaido and luffy were to kill luffy that's why Oda didn't make Bigmom go all out in the fight cause what kidd and law was hitting with wasn't enough to bring her down😩 Kidd uses his trump card and she was literally smirking while taking the attack like its nothing and you saying that they “OFFICIALLY” beat her 😭😭

No. Big Mom tried her best with the stamina she had and the situation she was in.

 

[Ballel]

oh ok




Ultimately there is no answer to that question until you see the actual fight. That's why powerscaling as always felt a little bit short for me.

It much more efficient to see the relationship between powers like a huge web of possibilities.

For example it's very probable that the fruit of Perona acts as the ultimate weapon against every one in the lore.. still.. Usopp can beat her. Does this mean Usopp is at the top chain ? No. It just mean Usopp is the worst ennemy FOR Perona.




No. Big Mom tried her best with the stamina she had and the situation she was in.

Do you know who won't join?

 

[Animangaboy]

Ultimately there is no answer to that question until you see the actual fight. That's why powerscaling as always felt a little bit short for me.

It much more efficient to see the relationship between powers like a huge web of possibilities.

For example it's very probable that the fruit of Perona acts as the ultimate weapon against every one in the lore.. still.. Usopp can beat her. Does this mean Usopp is at the top chain ? No. It just mean Usopp is the worst ennemy FOR Perona

What carrot have that can put down MYTHICAL ZOAN something that both luffy and kaido are. the most RAREST devil fruit in One Piece history u really think carrot in sulong form can beat that?

Post automatically merged: Apr 23, 2022

Big Mom tried her best with the stamina she had and the situation she was in.

Her stamina was no problem because law and kidd were also huffed too not to mention bigmom can use her devil fruit to heal herself u really think Bigmom was going all out? Why didn't oda make Bigmom use Prometheus during the fight?
Only lighting attacks she was using until she does the misery attack, she could use her sword after the homies combination attack but didn't Oda Nerf the hell out of her

 

[Monkey D Al]

Do you know who won't join?

Oh I do I do. It’s carrot

 

[SILVERS000]

But how will carrot fight in her sulong form against the BB pirates when we don't even know there will be a full moon 🤔

Post automatically merged: Apr 21, 2022

But at least chopper can hurt and fight Queen for a while meanwhile carrot couldn't even do anything against perospero other than a sneak attack 🙃.

Dont you get it

Carrot is so important that the Straw Hats will plan all of their fights around Carrot

BLACKBEARD FIGHT

Luffy: Blackbeard is coming right at us, but lets run away and wait untill next Thursday so Carrot can fight with us for the 3min she can hold her Sulong

Zoro: Why didn't we just let Yamato join the crew?

Luffy: BECAUSE CARROT HAS A GREEN CAPE!!!!

 

[Animangaboy]

Dont you get it

Carrot is so important that the Straw Hats will plan all of their fights around Carrot

BLACKBEARD FIGHT

Luffy: Blackbeard is coming right at us, but lets run away and wait untill next Thursday so Carrot can fight with us for the 3min she can hold her Sulong

Zoro: Why didn't we just let Yamato join the crew?

Luffy: BECAUSE CARROT HAS A GREEN CAPE!!!!

“THE MOON IS CONNECTED TO NIKA AND THE MINKS”
Carrot will show us a true “awakening sulong form” that can beats mythical zoan and also ACOC users

 

[Logiko]

Do you know who won't join?

Yeah. Yamato

What carrot have that can put down MYTHICAL ZOAN something that both luffy and kaido are. the most RAREST devil fruit in One Piece history u really think carrot in sulong form can beat that?

Oda

Her stamina was no problem because law and kidd were also huffed too not to mention bigmom can use her devil fruit to heal herself u really think Bigmom was going all out? Why didn't oda make Bigmom use Prometheus during the fight?
Only lighting attacks she was using until she does the misery attack, she could use her sword after the homies combination attack but didn't Oda Nerf the hell out of her

If you say so. I disagree.

 

[thedarkdragon11]

Yup, the logic of One Piece, which is very broad. So, anything is possible.

But Carrot joining doesn't have logic behind and is improbable... But Raizo is logical, he even had flashbacks...

Raizo joins the crew, Carrot eats grass in Zou...

Carrot was on the ground while still counscious and stuck while wanda was out of commission.

Peros knows Carrot isn't that much of a threat as compared to Wanda since he doesn't know what Wanda is capable of... So it's just logical for him to take her out first because after that, Carrot would be an easy work...

Jinbe was never too powerfull to join the crew.

Of course he isn't because there's no such thing as "too powerful to join the crew"... That's stupid... But do note that Jinbe, even up to now to a certain extent, was/is making Sanjitards pee...

 

[JoSeungHun7335]

The guardians of the galaxy and Spiderman. Two very different style of writing but the same core storytelling logic.

You don't understand me when I'm talking about storytelling core and frankly this is a bit too advanced to explain it here. I suggest you read some book about myths, storytelling and the creation of stories (Joseph Campbell is a good start tho not the only good reference). See with @Sigran101 maybe he will have the patience to explain you why stories cores are universal as I'm sure he understands that notion.

Bruh, I was asking which storyline, arc, and saga of Marvel. Not which superhero. This shows how completely clueless you are that you can’t even answer my question to support your argument. I asked about A and you answered with Z. I was wrong to take you seriously. (never taken you seriously, actually. You’re nothing but the epitome of a joke)

Yeah.. You are out of the subject here. Never said that. I said that writers have specialities, there are codes to horror's stories just like there are codes to Shonens. Still, even if those writers may have hardtime with the codes, they should all know the principal: being the core of storytelling and "how" to create a good story.

A writer can be good at creating Spidermans stories but he will have hard time doing something more gore related.

You sure that’s not you?

You are really having an obsession with comics, but what I just told you applies to every kind of support and stories you know.. Stan Lee was just giving the answer of an average writer, not just a comic writer.

Stan Lee was specifically talking about his comics, obviously.

Sigh.. talking with flat earthers is a pain..

Glad that you finally realize how we’ve been feeling about you these past few months.

This has nothing to do with the argument. Your statement is irrelevant.

So here you’re saying that Luffy is not the main character and Oda can’t do anything to the main character of his own story?

 

[Animangaboy]

Oda

😭😭😂 Oda himself makes mythical zoan too unbroken that he doesn't know what to do with kaido right now so are you saying that carrot could stall kadio like how Yamato does now?

Post automatically merged: Apr 23, 2022

you say so. I

I guess you can't read then cause both kidd and law were huff and puff too no just beat bigmom

 

[JoSeungHun7335]

I think you guys are talking about different things. What Joseung is trying to say is that since different authors of the same marvel comics create their own seperate universe with alternate reality versions of the characters, they can completely change the rules from the ones the other authors follow and make everyone's strength wildly different from the way other comics portray them. Because of this you have shit like Solomun Grundy beating up Superman in some comics and losing a fistfight with Batman in others. Basically what he's saying is that American comics aren't a good comparison to manga as far as powerscaling goes because of this. If manga had the wildly inconsistent powerscaling of comics, it would seem really weird since most animes don't have an in universe explanation like that. But imo this would be more like if Zoro had an extreme diff fight against Montdor in the next arc while Ussop fights Big Mom. I think what you're saying about Carrot is pretty innocuous, but I agree that marvel isn't really relevant here.

That said, the words storytelling core aren't accurate to this, and I think that's what's confusing here.

I agree with Jo that Marvel doesn't really apply here, but overall I agree with you that Oda can make Carrot much stronger if he wants to. Luffy got ACoA, ACoC, and awakening/gear 5 to bring him from barely extreme diffing Kata, to beating Kaido 1v1. Oda can make Carrot stronger if he wants to, but I highly doubt he will ever make her as strong as Yamato (I know that's not exactly what you're saying, I'm just saying it for the people talking about that). I think more than being too weak, the limitation on when she can use su long is an issue, but Oda can easily come up with a solution to that if he wants to. If Carrot joins the crew he can just make another magic mink medicine type of thing that forces su long or give her some kind of moon rock that triggers it.

Imo this one is a non issue, she's stronger than Ussop so she's strong enough to join. It's more of an issue for the likes of Vivi and Hiyori.

Finally! An answer that shows a human with fully functioning brain. His comparison is not apple to apple to begin with, and that’s what I’ve been telling him the whole time but he has non-existent comprehension to understand. Bruh, he even mentioned which superhero where I asked him about which storyline, arc, or saga. I can’t stop laughing honestly

I should say: talking to a whole circus is a pain (at least flat earthers have logic to support their arguments)

Post automatically merged: Apr 23, 2022

Oh, no I agree with your point about storytelling. I meant that Jo wasn't using the term right, not you. Not that Jo was wrong, because like we said you weren't talking about the same thing.

He was giving an example of Green Arrow vs Superman? Well, we all know one of Superman’s weakness is GREEN Kryptonite.

But in Carrot vs Yamato’s case, what is Yamato’s weakness? That’s why I keep saying to not compare American comics with Japanese manga. And yeah, he’s too dumb to understand it…

 

[Logiko]

But Carrot joining doesn't have logic behind and is improbable... But Raizo is logical, he even had flashbacks...

Of course there is a logic to Carrot joining. In fact Carrot joining is the perfect addition to the strawhat. The last strawhat being someone who can see danger and adventure as something wonderful on a totally different scale than Luffy, is in perfect sync with the themes of One Piece.

Peros knows Carrot isn't that much of a threat as compared to Wanda since he doesn't know what Wanda is capable of... So it's just logical for him to take her out first because after that, Carrot would be an easy work...

Yeah.. keep telling fantasies to yourself lawl

"too powerful to join the crew"

Well.. someone that outshined Zoro.. I feel like it's the limit.

But do note that Jinbe, even up to now to a certain extent, was/is making Sanjitards pee...

Only for those who didn't observe. Jinbe, even in fishmen Island was put behind of Sanji in term of treatment.

Bruh, I was asking which storyline, arc, and saga of Marvel. Not which superhero. This shows how completely clueless you are that you can’t even answer my question to support your argument

Granted, I read you poorly. But that doesn't change the fact that your question was irrelevant to begin with.

You sure that’s not you?

Glad that you finally realize how we’ve been feeling about you these past few months.

You really have a problem of ego my dude..

Stan Lee was specifically talking about his comics, obviously.

Nah. Here Stan Lee was speaking about stories in general.

So here you’re saying that Luffy is not the main character and Oda can’t do anything to the main character of his own story?

You are inventing things and you are completely out of the subject. Go back on the tracks mate.

😭😭😂 Oda himself makes mythical zoan too unbroken that he doesn't know what to do with kaido right now so are you saying that carrot could stall kadio like how Yamato does now?

Oda knows perfectly what he is doing. But he is masterfull enough into making you thing that he doesn't.

I guess you can't read then cause both kidd and law were huff and puff too no just beat bigmom

Ok ok.. that argument is going nowhere as we are disagreeing on the foundamental.

at least flat earther can have logics to support their arguments

No they don't.

His comparison is not apple to apple to begin with

It is. Stories are stories. They all have the same hearth (or core, or call it whateever you want)

You just don't understand that what I'm comparing is not the support, but the actual hearth and so.. the legitimate and or potential choices of the writers to write a good story.

So.. When I say:

If a manga writer wants to make Carrot win against a fight against Yamato
or
If a comic writer wants to make The green Arrow win against Superman

They CAN.

Not if they create a consistant story, but if they create a coherent one. Meaning: A good story.

 

[thedarkdragon11]

Of course there is a logic to Carrot joining. In fact Carrot joining is the perfect addition to the strawhat. The last strawhat being someone who can see danger and adventure as something wonderful on a totally different scale than Luffy, is in perfect sync with the themes of One Piece.

:queenhear:

 

[Sigran101]

Finally! An answer that shows a human with fully functioning brain. His comparison is not apple to apple to begin with, and that’s what I’ve been telling him the whole time but he has non-existent comprehension to understand. Bruh, he even mentioned which superhero where I asked him about which storyline, arc, or saga. I can’t stop laughing honestly

I should say: talking to a whole circus is a pain (at least flat earthers have logic to support their arguments)

Post automatically merged: Apr 23, 2022

He was giving an example of Green Arrow vs Superman? Well, we all know one of Superman’s weakness is GREEN Kryptonite.

But in Carrot vs Yamato’s case, what is Yamato’s weakness? That’s why I keep saying to not compare American comics with Japanese manga. And yeah, he’s too dumb to understand it…

I don't think he's trying to say that Carrot>Yamato. He's just saying that if Oda had written a scenario where Carrot fought Yamato and he wanted Carrot to win, he could find a creative way to make it happen despite the obvious difference in strength. Imo it's a reasonable point. This is the same manga where Nami beat Kalifa and Miss Doublefinger.

 

[Animangaboy]

Oda knows perfectly what he is doing. But he is masterfull enough into making you thing that he doesn't.

I am saying that mythical zoan isn't something that a Moon Raid attack can put down that's all cause in your mind you think Carrot is more Superior than someone who has one of the rarest devil fruit and ACOC haki (only the strongest someone can do) which she isn't in both story-wise and your little fantasy too

Post automatically merged: Apr 24, 2022

that argument is going nowhere as we are disagreeing on the foundamental

You literally said that bigmom was running out of stamina that's why she lost the fight when she literally heal her body to fight back both law and kidd but kidd couldn't defeat her that's why he said he's going get rid of her off the island 😩.

 

[JoSeungHun7335]

Granted, I read you poorly. But that doesn't change the fact that your question was irrelevant to begin with.

Because you can’t answer it that’s why you consider it irrelevant, and now you choose to run with your tail between your legs. Not the first time, honestly, so it’s not surprising.

You really have a problem of ego my dude..

It’s ironic coming from someone who shows ego problem on previous answer in the same post. Well…

Nah. Here Stan Lee was speaking about stories in general.

Yeah. Whatever you wish

You are inventing things and you are completely out of the subject. Go back on the tracks mate.

Sulong could be a hint. As I explained.. Sulong could be the starting clay to build a massive power up for carrot mixed with her ability to control that form more than random minks. So yeah.. there are already some basis placed into the story to build that kind of power if necessary. Oda would just need to do the same work he did with the fruit of Luffy. Which is easy to do from a writing perspective.

It is. Stories are stories. They all have the same hearth (or core, or call it whateever you want)

You just don't understand that what I'm comparing is not the support, but the actual hearth and so.. the legitimate and or potential choices of the writers to write a good story.

So.. When I say:

If a manga writer wants to make Carrot win against a fight against Yamato
or
If a comic writer wants to make The green Arrow win against Superman

They CAN.

Not if they create a consistant story, but if they create a coherent one. Meaning: A good story.

They can, surely, but which part of “currently there is no point or hint heading towards there” you don’t understand?