Capitalism vs Communism

Which do you prefer


  • Total voters
    47
his is so dumb, you don't even understand basic human nature, or even animal nature.
Doesn't seem like you understand human nature either. As I previously said, human nature is not separate from the system the human lives in and can change accordingly. What also is an essential part of human nature, is the ability to reason. To question our own thoughts and believes and create complex, philosophical-ethical systems, just as rules to live by in society.

Let's not make it sound like we are comparable to the rest of the animals.
 
lol, and how does that ability to reason negate what i just said?
Because your statement is very sketchy and vapid. You are trying to refute his whole point by just throwing in a phrase like "human nature", without elaborating at all what exactly you mean by human nature and how human nature expresses itself under different circumstances and contexts.
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
even is we abolished all that something else would take its place. e.g. looks , talents, social status
What is “social status” in a world without class lol? There can be no high social status in an equal society, by definition.

Communism is a society without hierarchy. Nothing can take the place of inequality in an equal world.
 
he basically said that our those difference are what causing all the problems. but it is a fact that humans(nature) would create hierarchy out of anything.

but you on the other are doing what you accusing me of . and please don't forget to answer how our ability to reason stops the innate inequality of the natural world we are part of?
So abolishing class as it is defined right now doesn't mean that humans will become equal in every sense. It means they will become socially equal. That people will not be treated anymore based on wealth, heritage, etc. e.g. everyone having equal access to education, health care and other basic human needs like food and shelter. But of course, even within a communist society, no one will think that there is no difference between a nuclear physicist and a waiter and that one is more important for humanity to prosper. And of course, within a communist society there also can be competition. I can still strive to become the best scientist, the best athlete and make a name for myself, consequently receiving the appreciation of society as a whole but also its individual members, who I influenced by my work and my thoughts.

It's a weird perception that communism means that we will all be reduced to mindless robots.
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
Equal how? as in people don't have any envy? or as material equality cause the latter by default is currently impossible. E.g:
how are you going to stop that inequality when you have no control over how someone looks. where someone lives e.g. like there is limited amount of beachfront space but ton of people want to live there? how do you solve that .. and ton of other inqualitites .
You think people will start wars over how attractive other people are lol? You think a climate catastrophe that threatens the human race will surface because people are jealous of eachother’s looks? What a preposterous sentiment.

I’d take disputes over who gets to live on the beach over a homelessness crisis where millions are being evicted as mega corporations buy all available housing any day of the week lmfao. I’d take fights over who gets to live close to the ocean over capitalist sponsored world wars in the name of profit 10/10 times.
 
Last edited:
Communism will always end in dictatorship,it requires that a few individuals control society for it to be implemented.The elite will control everything while the average citizen will starve.Venezuela used to be one of the richest countries in Latin America,now they are starving.If you are a commie,you either don't know shit about history or you are just straight up evil.
Post automatically merged:

Sorry Larry that isn't what communism is. That is your own propagandized view of what communism is. Dictatorships does not mean communism. Dictatorship means dictatorship. Communism has a clear definition which is "state owned of production". And state owned of production has worked throughout the history of mankind. There is nothing inherently wrong with communism.
Tell me how the state will own all production of goods without implementing a dictatorship,plz?if you are going to force the rich folk to give up their stuff you will need to utilize force and have a huge force to keep people at bay.Communism requires dictatorship to be implemented.It will always end is tragedy.People are not equal and some people are not fit to live by many reasons,it will always be like this.We will never achieve Utopia because people are flawed by nature.All attemps to bring an Utopic society have ended badly.
 
Last edited:
There is no real communism, there is just crazy leaders who wants to rule the world, justifieng his action by society.
There will never be,because its impossible.Communism is a made up propaganda to get psycopaths in power.The biggest atrocities of the last century have been commited by communist regimes and of course they say it was to achieve a greater good.The next generation of commies always acuses the previous one of not being true communists and do the same shit once they get into power.People that defend this stuff never lived in a commie nation or are just evil.Period.Communism requires dictatorship to be implemented.Marx,Lennin,etc were all bad dudes,just read their biographys.Latin America is run by communists and drug dealers,does anyone here that likes communism wants to experiment living in Venezuela or Cuba?
 
Last edited:
To my knowledge, “communism” is a stateless and classless society. Too my knowledge no state by definition has ever achieved this and thus true communism has never been achieved. Since “state” and “class” are the roots of all modern violence and conflict, the system sounds pretty great in theory.

Okay so I live in the U.S. and I will say from experience that Capitalism is shit. And I say this as someone who likely makes more money than most people in the U.S.

Let’s momentarily set aside the lunacy of an economic system where infinite profits and resources are forcibly extracted from a finite world,

Let’s set aside the fact that capitalism inevitably devolves into corporatism as businesses grow and grow infinitely at the expense of the health of the planet,

Let’s set aside the fact that essentially the whole reason the U.S. didn’t fail economically almost a dozen times by now is that we use our military to forcibly exert our agenda upon the rest of the world,

Let’s set aside the fact that in order for any Capitalist system to succeed, the majority of people participating need to be exploited and abused since businesses/owners are actively incentivizes to victimize their own laborers for the sake of higher and higher profits,

Let’s set aside the fact that Capitalism has forced the vast majority of the Western world to live in poverty just so that a tiny handful of people can own more wealth than they would need in a hundred lifetimes,

And essentially all capitalism is is a system where 1% of people oppress the 99% for the sake of profit. Capitalism in the U.S. currently is failing not only because all capitalist systems are doomed to long-term failure, but because more and more people are realizing what a harmful economic system capitalism truly is.

The idea of communism in principal sounds infinitely better than this capitalism shit.
I have thought about this for a while. We live in the period of the beginning of the end of the modern world, where the consequences of the inevitable decline in birthrates in the dissolved and disintegrated societies began to appear, and the most affected is the capitalist, fewer consumers and producers mean less money in his pocket.

What is the solution for this? Immigrants will being a cultural and genetic replacement for the local census. Is that why right-wing currents have begun to emerge now? France as an example. Is preventing abortion a solution to this crisis? No, this is the inevitable result of a life of luxury the basis upon which the greatest capitalist industries are based.

This is what the capitalists don't realize. Healthy societies and contentment that are not eroded by the adornment of the world are, by their nature, non-consumer societies and their purchasing power is weak and their safety is based on the unity of the class and the priority of the interest of the group and manifestation of altruism at the expense of the desire and whim of the individual. Therefore, if it is not dismantled, capitalism will not find a foothold in it.

As an example of a large sub-cause of the decline in birth rates and the collapse of the structure of society is contrived real estate crises and bad urban planning. Large, interconnected families occupy oess areas of land. One house contains such a family that is less expensive and space than several separate families living in more than one property. For the capitalist, fewer spaces and more connected communities mean fewer roads, cars and commerical spaces.

I can't speak on behalf of everyone, @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung you know better than me when it comes to this, but don't you think the cities of Europe are more humane than the cities of America, because the latter throws the urban planning of its cities at the mercy of supply, demand and economic feasibility. As for the cities of Europe, they plan their cities based on the public interest of their local community, where the environmental and social damages and the living is more suitable for human nature to move and live.
 
Tell me how the state will own all production of goods without implementing a dictatorship,plz?if you are going to force the rich folk to give up their stuff you will need to utilize force and have a huge force to keep people at bay.Communism requires dictatorship to be implemented.It will always end is tragedy.People are not equal and some people are not fit to live by many reasons,it will always be like this.We will never achieve Utopia because people are flawed by nature.All attemps to bring an Utopic society have ended badly.
By state I meant people like you and I. Citizens is what makes up a state, not dictators. That is the essence of democracy. Also, it has nothing to do with "rich folks giving up their stuff".

P.S.: Why don't I get notifications when people automerge their reply to me?
 
By state I meant people like you and I. Citizens is what makes up a state, not dictators. That is the essence of democracy. Also, it has nothing to do with "rich folks giving up their stuff".

P.S.: Why don't I get notifications when people automerge their reply to me?
State workers are also citizens,but citizens are not part of the state bureocracy.Bureocrats run the the state.They have the power.Try to command a general to invade some country lol You are confused.
 
By state I meant people like you and I. Citizens is what makes up a state, not dictators. That is the essence of democracy. Also, it has nothing to do with "rich folks giving up their stuff".
Yeah and through democracy you pick representatives, in which would become bureaucrats who run the state. You will not be the state, the politicians will
 
Better in theory or practice? Communism has always failed, whereas Capitalism almost always succeeds, but in theory Communism is better, it just never actually reaches that point in practice.
 
B

Ballel

None of them. Everything is used for evil by the higher ups.
Dogs should rule over this world.
:hope:
But dogs are bootlickers. I wouldn't want a world ruled by them.

Society should not be ruled by sociopathic narcissists, that's all.
Any ideology/philosophy can be used for good and for bad.
 
Better in theory or practice? Communism has always failed, whereas Capitalism almost always succeeds, but in theory Communism is better, it just never actually reaches that point in practice.
Not even in theory,this is some bullshit some maniacs came up with to control.Basically a compilation of half truths.
 
I'm pretty sure I've talked about this topic on another thread just like this before so its weird to see another thread like this where I haven't commented on it yet. So I'll write my opinions again on it here.

I personally don't think that either in its pure form is the best, but both have qualities that are useful and are worth drawing from and that society should learn to be flexible and take what works and not be so inflexible and stubborn.

Imo aspects of both Communism and Capitalism are important as they deal with how money and wealth ought to flow in society, with capitalism important to the creation of wealth, and communism being important with the distribution of wealth.

Capitalism has the importance of the creation and accumulation of wealth, while communism is important with the redistribution and allocation of wealth.

Both are needed in economies and societies. Accumulation of wealth are needed so society can pool their resources together to advance, progress and generate wealth to fund the needs and the desires of people and society. The downside and often sad truth is that the lion's share of its benefits often end up going to the few instead of the many, even though capitalism wouldn't be possible unless everyone in society contributes - without the workers and consumers, and many other groups, millionaires and billionaires would never have accumulated so much personal wealth on their own. The rich wouldn't have gotten rich without the low wage workers from developing countries, the tax cut benefits from governments, the expensive and debt ridden college graduates and most importantly the mass consumers who work long hours working for companies just to earn enough money from to spend on the same products and services they worked so hard and earned so little making and servicing.

A worker and average employees' worth is only worth how much their worked for and how far their skills takes them, which is why the average job have such poor wage increases as there is too many people to do the same work and the employer will always go for the cheapest and there will always be someone who is willing to do the same work as you do but for less. That's why unions are so important. And this demand for low wage workers will always exist and be readily available so long there are poorer and less advanced societies, AKA developing countries.

I also think that a bigger and often times not discussed problem with capitalism and the majority of the wealth concentrated in the wealthy few, is how it affects the choosing of leaders and national decisions making for everyone else. If you live in a democracy, who gets to lead the country, and chart the future for their country's people - is decided by elections, determined by votes. That is a concept that many people are quite familiar with. What they may not be quite familiar with is that running an election campaign costs money, and to run a winning election costs even more money, money that running candidates don't have. That's where donors come into play. Interest groups who have the money and capital to finance the candidate's campaigns, with the rule that they accommodate and help deliver their own self interests once candidates win the election and come into power with their help, and not always the interest of voters, AKA the masses and the nation as a whole that a president or prime minister must represent. Capitalism has a direct role in making democracy less 'democratic' by funding their system of choosing their leaders and influencing the decisions and laws that those elected leaders or prime ministers create and pass. Repeated disappointment by voters after they have voted, all because they didn't have a few million bucks lying in their pockets to give their presidents or prime ministers a bit more 'encouragement'.

Wealth inequality in capitalists societies can also have long lasting consequences for the rest of the population who are not rich. Being rich means you have far more disposable income, income that if spend properly can give rich people and their children a head start compared to the non rich people with a better education and more opportunities, a advantage that a majority of people don't have. This ensures that the rich people, their children and further generations can stay rich, while the rest of the population have to work extra hard while at the same time also competing against so many other people who are in the same boat that they are in of not being rich. How many people want to sought highly technical degrees or start their own business but simply don't have the money and finances to do so? Even getting a loan because you don't have enough money requires you to have money that you don't currently have so banks and lenders can be confident enough to lend you the money that they can be assured will be paid back, with interest.

And finally probably the biggest issue of capitalism that will have a more long lasting, permanent and damaging effect going forward for all of us, is climate change and the damaging of the environment. Floods in India and droughts in Africa, centuries and decades of unchecked industrialization to create capitalism have left far more pollution and CO2 that mother earth and nature can handle that the WHO World Health Organization (i think?) said that we only have about a decade left to pull ourselves back from the irreversible consequences of climate change.

Communism on the other hand, only deals with the distribution of wealth, but never manages to come up with a solution of the creation of wealth that works and is sustainable.

Many people might be unfamiliar, but the reason why communism exists, is because its a reaction and pushback against capitalism or the ruling class. First come up by Karl Marx and Federic Engels in theory, and later first tested and practiced in the Soviet Union. The Russian Revolution after all was a pushback to the corruption and inefficiency of the Romanov ruling class of Russia. Corrupt, Inefficient and incompetent made the people and the working class to take matters into their own hands. The Russian Revolution and the Romanov Dynasty's successor the Soviet Union at the beginning actually did pretty well in the fast track of mass industrialization and catching up with the West, something that helped them greatly in fending off Hitler's Nazi Germany in the Second World War.

But that only worked well in war time when the nation was in dire straits and when it was easy to rally the nation's population in the face of existential threat. It didn't help the Soviet Union's competition with the United States during the Cold War as capitalism was more successful in attracting talent in the United States where inventors and entrepreneurs were given better incentives and payouts than just the minimum wage and a one off paycheck to come up with innovations and inventions to advance America's productivity and competitiveness on the international markets.

Uncompetitive, inefficient and inadequate allocation and redistribution of wealth, resources and manpower caused many famines in countries with communist ruling governments, whether it was Mao's China, Pol Pot's Cambodia or Kim Jong Un's North Korea. The concept of redistribution of wealth and an equal society are indeed important, but that only works if you are able to create wealth effectively and keep on sustainably creating that wealth in the first place, its an important question that communism doesn't answer. Workers should be entitled to a fair wage and adequate pay, as well as holidays, benefits and union rights and the right to dispute their bosses if they are being unfairly paid or exploited. But its more harder to argue for them to control and dictate how the means of production should work and be organized. If they knew how to, they wouldn't simply just be blue collar workers. Leave that job to the professionals. No matter how much we may despise millionaires and billionaires or even wealthy CEOs or bosses flaunting their wealth, not all of them are useless bloodsuckers. Many of them are there because of their expertise and experience. And even for the ones who are just freeloaders living off inherited wealth, even they can play a important role in paying more taxes to the government to fund more social programs. They are also the only ones suitable to be investors to fund startup and inventions that won't break the nation's economy or a government's budget if they fail, one billionaire investor's loss on the stock market is much safer than wasteful spending and dangerous gambling of taxpayer money by an incompetent government.
 
State workers are also citizens,but citizens are not part of the state bureocracy.Bureocrats run the the state.They have the power.Try to command a general to invade some country lol You are confused.
I meant direct democracy, not representatives.
Post automatically merged:

Yeah and through democracy you pick representatives, in which would become bureaucrats who run the state. You will not be the state, the politicians will
I meant direct democracy, not representatives. I don't want Dr. Oz making decisions for the whole state of Pennsylvania, instead I want the population to be informed themselves thus the population making the decisions for Pennsylvania.
 
When has a stateless classless moneyless society been attempted?
That was humanity for about 1 million years.... Just bands of hunter gatherers.

The answer is never lol. Totalitarian regimes have used the idea of communism to establish dictatorships but the system itself has never been attempted.
Yes, cause the only way to stifle inequality in a large society is through repression. Like Shanks said



People are unequal. That's just the way things are. I'm no fan of capitalism but capitalism at least gives people freedom without trying to tear them down. Communism wants to tell the smart, productive guy that he's equal to the dumb, lazy guy.
 
Top