Spoiler General Kingdom Spoiler
- Thread starter Guan Yu
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- Tags cruzeiro > your fav team kaneki & mutin kouen > all ousen ousen>cruzeiro riboku>ousen shin > ouhon wingdom
Historically, Riboku & Ousen never clashed directly after this war, until the last Campaign where Yotanwa/Kyoukai/Ousen led the armies against him, but couldn't get past his defenses, resulting in a stalemate. Which led the Qin to manipulate the Zhao court to move Riboku from the frontlines. Riboku refused, which considered treason, thus executed. Once the new about Riboku being gone reached Qin, Qin took over Zhao. This will probably rather than being Riboku vs Ousen or w.e, will essentially become King vs King. Showing the importance of why having a King like Ei Sei is important compared to a king like that of Zhao.
After this present campaign, Qin goes (or tries to go after Han), during that time Kanki leads an army to Zhao to keep em from interfereing and where Kanki wins against this guy:
After the guardian of Kantan loses, is when Riboku comes in to hand Kanki a L.
2 years later, Zhao is hit by a famine & Earthquake, and this is when the Qin decide to attack Zhao again with Yotanwa/Kyoukai/Ousen being the 3 leaders of the army.
Anddd this is when Riboku & Shibashou take them on. Riboku comes up with some good defensive tactics which results in the stalemate (as mentioned above).
So Riboku really only ever took this 1 L from Wang Jian (Ousen). Didn't take any Ls outside of that.
After this present campaign, Qin goes (or tries to go after Han), during that time Kanki leads an army to Zhao to keep em from interfereing and where Kanki wins against this guy:
After the guardian of Kantan loses, is when Riboku comes in to hand Kanki a L.
2 years later, Zhao is hit by a famine & Earthquake, and this is when the Qin decide to attack Zhao again with Yotanwa/Kyoukai/Ousen being the 3 leaders of the army.
Anddd this is when Riboku & Shibashou take them on. Riboku comes up with some good defensive tactics which results in the stalemate (as mentioned above).
So Riboku really only ever took this 1 L from Wang Jian (Ousen). Didn't take any Ls outside of that.
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Historically, Riboku & Ousen never clashed directly after this war, until the last Campaign where Yotanwa/Kyoukai/Ousen led the armies against him, but couldn't get past his defenses, resulting in a stalemate. Which led the Qin to manipulate the Zhao court to move Riboku from the frontlines. Riboku refused, which considered treason, thus executed. Once the new about Riboku being gone reached Qin, Qin took over Zhao. This will probably rather than being Riboku vs Ousen or w.e, will essentially become King vs King. Showing the importance of why having a King like Ei Sei is important compared to a king like that of Zhao.
After this present campaign, Qin goes after Han, during that time Kanki leads an army to Zhao to keep em from interfereing and where Kanki wins against this guy:
After the guardian of Kantan loses, is when Riboku comes in to hand Kanki a L.
2 years later, Zhao is hit by a famine & Earthquake, and this is when the Qin decide to attack Zhao again with Yotanwa/Kyoukai/Ousen being the 3 leaders of the army.
Anddd this is when Riboku & Shibashou take them on. Riboku comes up with some good defensive tactics which results in the stalemate (as mentioned above).
So Riboku really only ever took this 1 L from Wang Jian (Ousen). Didn't take any Ls outside of that.
After this present campaign, Qin goes after Han, during that time Kanki leads an army to Zhao to keep em from interfereing and where Kanki wins against this guy:
After the guardian of Kantan loses, is when Riboku comes in to hand Kanki a L.
2 years later, Zhao is hit by a famine & Earthquake, and this is when the Qin decide to attack Zhao again with Yotanwa/Kyoukai/Ousen being the 3 leaders of the army.
Anddd this is when Riboku & Shibashou take them on. Riboku comes up with some good defensive tactics which results in the stalemate (as mentioned above).
So Riboku really only ever took this 1 L from Wang Jian (Ousen). Didn't take any Ls outside of that.
One thing regarding Shin is bothering me though;
Shin dreams of being a GG but he leads an attack in Chu only to get a massive L and get half of his commanders killed in the retreat. Later on he only manages to subdue Yan who had practically surrendered or so. Does this mean he never achieved his Dream..?? From what I’ve learned Zhao is only where he gets to shine.
I also wanted to discuss the same for some time nw, i think we should have a Proper thread on same.
I would like to hear other views on how you guys think Hara plans on settling that fight or explain Shin L(given it was a massive setback to Qin unification), and what achievements Shin will make, in Chu unification or together in China Unification and could that qualify to make him the Strongest Qin GG in history?
And which GGs will conquer which kingdoms, i think many of us are up to date with Historical spoilers, so we can form a good discussion on that.
As for Your Reply, he chases after Yan forces(most likely their King which would make it major feat in Yan Unification) and Kanki might also play a role here.
Since Kanki is direct confrontation of Shin beliefs and their clash is already hinted strongly by Hara. If that happens, Kanki vs Shin would make up an interesting fight.
And later on, it's either Ou hon or Shin that leads the final raid of China Unification i.e on Qi Kingdom, where Shin again plays a major role.
And which GGs will conquer which kingdoms, i think many of us are up to date with Historical spoilers, so we can form a good discussion on that.
As for Your Reply, he chases after Yan forces(most likely their King which would make it major feat in Yan Unification) and Kanki might also play a role here.
Since Kanki is direct confrontation of Shin beliefs and their clash is already hinted strongly by Hara. If that happens, Kanki vs Shin would make up an interesting fight.
And later on, it's either Ou hon or Shin that leads the final raid of China Unification i.e on Qi Kingdom, where Shin again plays a major role.
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Well bro let's look at the Chu campaign historically:
- Ei Sei has to pick between Ousen (600,000) or Shin (200,000)
- Ei Sei picks Shin over Ousen
- Shin leads the Qin army, with Mouten to take Chu.
- They achieve victories initially, both of them scoring cities
- From then Shin goes after Yan
- After the Yan business is done (destroys a Yan army forcing them to surrender), he goes to try and meet up with Mouten. While he's doing that Shouheikun incites a rebellion in the city that Shin had conquered.
- While Shouheikun did that, the Tiger of Chu had been following Shin's army, and after 3 days and nights, they caught Shin's army by surprise. Then Shouheikun joined in from behind. With Shin losing important commanders of his army in this battle.
- Ei Sei then convinces Ousen to lead another attack against the Chu with the 600,000 plan he originally had, with Moubu/Shin/etc all under him.
People often based on the fact that Shin doesn't have much written about him historically say that he wasn't a big time general of that era. Yet, the decision to conquer the most powerful state out of them all was between Ousen (who historically has great achievements by this time) and Shin, not Moubu/Mouten/or anybody else.. but Shin. So why would such an important decision be left to somebody with no achievements, and why was such a man picked over Wang Jian (Ousen) who historically had produced the most results for Qin at this point in time? The only thing I can think of, is because history doesn't tell the whole story. But one thing we can be sure of based on the fact that it was between Li Xin & Wang Jian is that Shin at this point had become a great general that was on par with the likes of Ousen.
Is it a huge L to his credibility that he was taken down by Shouheikun (current head of Qin Military) & Tiger of Chu (possibly the top general in Chu)? Not to mention he did comeback under Ousen for the Chu conquest.
Not only that, but the very last campaign of the Conquest of China is done by Shin, with Qi (who surrenders without any or very little fight). This is despite him taking a L at Chu earlier.
I think based on the historical information we have available, it wouldn't be wrong to assume that he was the best general in China by the time China is conquered or atleast on par with the best general in China.
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Hara's possible scenario in the manga:
-> Hara is establishing a strong connection with Shin & Ousen right now, which to me implies hes building up for that Shin vs Ousen thing that's going down for the Chu campaign.
-> He did the Moubu vs SHK 1-shot, so we can assume he's gonna be building towards that scenario, so SHK's betrayal is coming.
-> Hi Shin Unit is being built up to be the most monsterous unit/army in China. A strategist that will rival the GGs, another GG with Kyoukai, and Shin himself, with powerful commanders like Naki (who is probably superior to all combtants that mouten or Ouhon have under them), then you add in the archer bros, monsters of strength like Ryuusen/Denyuu who're still advancing, elite swordsmen like Suugen (who got some hype as infantry commander, [the infantry should be atleast half of the unit] this arc), and so on.
This will probably give credibility to Shin requesting only 200k men, because the Hi Shin Unit is just overpowered as fuck by this point.
-> Then with Tiger of Chu's surprise attack on the HSU, you build it up so HSU is winning despite the surprise attack, then it took Shouheikun coming from behind to take the HSU out. (Shin vs Tiger Of Chu & Shouheikun, pheww boy that's gone be hype)
I mean I think even if we rely on just historical things we have, we can come up with an analysis that points to Li Xin achieving his dream of being the top general (assuming that was his actual dream or something). In manga-wise, I think Hara has good credible ways of making it happen by the end.
- Ei Sei has to pick between Ousen (600,000) or Shin (200,000)
- Ei Sei picks Shin over Ousen
- Shin leads the Qin army, with Mouten to take Chu.
- They achieve victories initially, both of them scoring cities
- From then Shin goes after Yan
- After the Yan business is done (destroys a Yan army forcing them to surrender), he goes to try and meet up with Mouten. While he's doing that Shouheikun incites a rebellion in the city that Shin had conquered.
- While Shouheikun did that, the Tiger of Chu had been following Shin's army, and after 3 days and nights, they caught Shin's army by surprise. Then Shouheikun joined in from behind. With Shin losing important commanders of his army in this battle.
- Ei Sei then convinces Ousen to lead another attack against the Chu with the 600,000 plan he originally had, with Moubu/Shin/etc all under him.
People often based on the fact that Shin doesn't have much written about him historically say that he wasn't a big time general of that era. Yet, the decision to conquer the most powerful state out of them all was between Ousen (who historically has great achievements by this time) and Shin, not Moubu/Mouten/or anybody else.. but Shin. So why would such an important decision be left to somebody with no achievements, and why was such a man picked over Wang Jian (Ousen) who historically had produced the most results for Qin at this point in time? The only thing I can think of, is because history doesn't tell the whole story. But one thing we can be sure of based on the fact that it was between Li Xin & Wang Jian is that Shin at this point had become a great general that was on par with the likes of Ousen.
Is it a huge L to his credibility that he was taken down by Shouheikun (current head of Qin Military) & Tiger of Chu (possibly the top general in Chu)? Not to mention he did comeback under Ousen for the Chu conquest.
Not only that, but the very last campaign of the Conquest of China is done by Shin, with Qi (who surrenders without any or very little fight). This is despite him taking a L at Chu earlier.
I think based on the historical information we have available, it wouldn't be wrong to assume that he was the best general in China by the time China is conquered or atleast on par with the best general in China.
------------
Hara's possible scenario in the manga:
-> Hara is establishing a strong connection with Shin & Ousen right now, which to me implies hes building up for that Shin vs Ousen thing that's going down for the Chu campaign.
-> He did the Moubu vs SHK 1-shot, so we can assume he's gonna be building towards that scenario, so SHK's betrayal is coming.
-> Hi Shin Unit is being built up to be the most monsterous unit/army in China. A strategist that will rival the GGs, another GG with Kyoukai, and Shin himself, with powerful commanders like Naki (who is probably superior to all combtants that mouten or Ouhon have under them), then you add in the archer bros, monsters of strength like Ryuusen/Denyuu who're still advancing, elite swordsmen like Suugen (who got some hype as infantry commander, [the infantry should be atleast half of the unit] this arc), and so on.
This will probably give credibility to Shin requesting only 200k men, because the Hi Shin Unit is just overpowered as fuck by this point.
-> Then with Tiger of Chu's surprise attack on the HSU, you build it up so HSU is winning despite the surprise attack, then it took Shouheikun coming from behind to take the HSU out. (Shin vs Tiger Of Chu & Shouheikun, pheww boy that's gone be hype)
I mean I think even if we rely on just historical things we have, we can come up with an analysis that points to Li Xin achieving his dream of being the top general (assuming that was his actual dream or something). In manga-wise, I think Hara has good credible ways of making it happen by the end.
Are we just forgetting about Ousen's ambition?
Obviously Ousen will ask 600k men because he's done his homework and knows that Chu is though to crack.
The court will freak out thinking Ousen is planning a coup to take over Qin and will tell him to fuck off.
SHK who's the only one that could say "well, Ousen is right..." will remain silent because he's already having remorse over Chu.
Enter Shin the imbecile who thinks 200k are ok.
Massive L for the imbecile.
Though Hara will probably do his best to save Shin's reputation by putting the focus on SHK's betrayal by making it look like everyone in Shin's spot would've been fucked.
Ousen & Moubu to the rescue.
Done.
Hara is already giving Shin a big list of achievement in the story (he's got Houken, Rinko and CGR already under his belt, probably Gaimou is coming soon) and he's gonna give him other stuff, but he's gonna remain "only" an important pawn.
Ousen is the GOAT.
Obviously Ousen will ask 600k men because he's done his homework and knows that Chu is though to crack.
The court will freak out thinking Ousen is planning a coup to take over Qin and will tell him to fuck off.
SHK who's the only one that could say "well, Ousen is right..." will remain silent because he's already having remorse over Chu.
Enter Shin the imbecile who thinks 200k are ok.
Massive L for the imbecile.
Ousen & Moubu to the rescue.
Done.
Hara is already giving Shin a big list of achievement in the story (he's got Houken, Rinko and CGR already under his belt, probably Gaimou is coming soon) and he's gonna give him other stuff, but he's gonna remain "only" an important pawn.
Ousen is the GOAT.
Definitely not Moubu or Kanmei.
Chu people are prideful as fuck. Kanmei was calling himself the strongest man in China. He would never do it if Kouen could defeat him in a duel.
Not Taikou
Not Retsubi
Not The Yellow River
I hope Hara doesn't create asspulls for the sake of unpredictability.
Incredible, the sleeveless armor/the animal pelt makes him look like a certain Quanrong King, lol.
Not Retsubi
Not The Yellow River
I hope Hara doesn't create asspulls for the sake of unpredictability.
Guys, check out this Concept I created for “the Tiger of Chu” Great General Kou En:
Strength-99 (on par with Kanmei/Moubu/prime SHK)
Intelligence-99 (on par with Haku Ki and slightly beneath Ri Boku)
Leadership-99 (on par with Yo Tan Wa, second only to Gaku Ki)
I have massive hopes for this character and I think he will for sure be a top 5 of all time general strength wise.
This didn’t turn out exactly how I wanted but I’m still pretty proud of it, and I’ve realized just how much shit manga artists go through lol.
What do you guys think?
@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @Patryipe @Bullet @Dark Admiral @Guan Yu @Den_Den_Mushi @Dovahkiin @Greenbeard @DizzyBrows @PuckTheGreat @MarineHQ62 @NeutralWatcher @RayanOO @Ninjashadow0209 @Arara @Hiragaro @Yo Tan Wa @Xione
Strength-99 (on par with Kanmei/Moubu/prime SHK)
Intelligence-99 (on par with Haku Ki and slightly beneath Ri Boku)
Leadership-99 (on par with Yo Tan Wa, second only to Gaku Ki)
I have massive hopes for this character and I think he will for sure be a top 5 of all time general strength wise.
This didn’t turn out exactly how I wanted but I’m still pretty proud of it, and I’ve realized just how much shit manga artists go through lol.
What do you guys think?
@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @Patryipe @Bullet @Dark Admiral @Guan Yu @Den_Den_Mushi @Dovahkiin @Greenbeard @DizzyBrows @PuckTheGreat @MarineHQ62 @NeutralWatcher @RayanOO @Ninjashadow0209 @Arara @Hiragaro @Yo Tan Wa @Xione
Here is what I’m thinking will happen, and yes I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately (partially what inspired me to draw Kou En lol).
Thanks bro, I took inspiration for his design from a lot of characters lol, mainly Karin, Kanmei, Rozo, and Bananji
Shin will enter Chu with an army of 200,000, and will get utterly shit stomped by a 500,000 Chu Army lead by Kou En (at this point, Shouheikun will be the King of Chu.)
From there, the Final Arc of Kingdom will have been set up to be an “Avengers Endgame” esque story, where Shin will return to Chu but this time under Ousen’s lead, and Shin will be the one to personally slay Kou En, making up for his prior loss (irl it is unrecorded who killed Kou En but he does die during the final invasion.)
During this battle, Shin also will slay Renpa which will complete both Renpa’s own character arc of “looking for his previous fire/the feeling of facing true Great General opponents” as well as Shin’s arc of “surpassing the old generals” which was established by Renpa.
Moubu slays SHK and Ousen gets the credit for all of this as he is the one leading the Qin. IRL, Ousen is by far considered a better General than Ri Shin, which is why I like the idea of Shin’s story ending this way, as he will debatably not be the greatest General in kingdom history, and I like this (though as he’ll personally slay Renpa and Kou En, a strong case will be able to be made for him.
From there, the Final Arc of Kingdom will have been set up to be an “Avengers Endgame” esque story, where Shin will return to Chu but this time under Ousen’s lead, and Shin will be the one to personally slay Kou En, making up for his prior loss (irl it is unrecorded who killed Kou En but he does die during the final invasion.)
During this battle, Shin also will slay Renpa which will complete both Renpa’s own character arc of “looking for his previous fire/the feeling of facing true Great General opponents” as well as Shin’s arc of “surpassing the old generals” which was established by Renpa.
Moubu slays SHK and Ousen gets the credit for all of this as he is the one leading the Qin. IRL, Ousen is by far considered a better General than Ri Shin, which is why I like the idea of Shin’s story ending this way, as he will debatably not be the greatest General in kingdom history, and I like this (though as he’ll personally slay Renpa and Kou En, a strong case will be able to be made for him.
Thanks bro, I took inspiration for his design from a lot of characters lol, mainly Karin, Kanmei, Rozo, and Bananji
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Nice summary of the future arc. I believe in its most part except for
Also how long will it take for the story to get that far..?? We’re still in the first phase of Zhao invasion.
Renpa one. I think he just dies somewhere in the Chu but not in the battlefield. I haven’t seen him being mentioned in Chu invasion. I might be wrong though.
I read the Historical spoilers you guys wrote and i am like - What the fuck... 
First time reading them. That's crazy and really interesting.
One Question, Ousen wants to be a King of his own state (or something) Right? Was it IRL also the chase? And did he achieve that?
First time reading them. That's crazy and really interesting.
One Question, Ousen wants to be a King of his own state (or something) Right? Was it IRL also the chase? And did he achieve that?
he never aimed to become a King. He just wanted a luxurious life for him and his upcoming generations, which actually made Sei laugh on the matter. He reveals it before heading for Chu.