General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
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She's been traveling with the Strawhats for a bit now, it's only natural for her to be with them as she has left them officially. Just like how Vivi had the chance to join, she chose to stay. If Vivi left the Strawhats in the middle of the adventure it would feel off, Carrot haven't reached that point yet.
People just need to understand that there is a "possibility" for additional characterization in carrot. Perospero is in Wano. So is Carrot. Even if they don't fight, there is additional story there to be told. The possibility presents itself. Let's just leave it at that because at this point we are arguing in circles.
That's not quite the case though. We don't know where she's went after they got off the boat, same as Wanda and the Three Musketeers who were also on the Sunny.
Me obviously.
Nah, what I'm saying is this, we both agree that prior to Jinbei and Carrot, that other members of the Strawhats did the roles we're talking about, yeah? And that neither roles were foreshadowed, certainly not to the extent of doctor, cook, musician so on.
So I'm saying that what really matters is how, in the present day, with everyone on the ship they are meant to be sailing on as Strawhat, the role is presented. Jinbei's clearly locked down Helmsman. Nobody else is doing that anymore other than him. On the other hand, people other than Carrot are being lookouts while Carrot is actually on the ship. That's not a good sign.
And could just as easily not show anything at all. Given how Wano's gone for Carrot so far, that's the more likely option.
I still reallly don't see how pointing out just how long Carrot has been overshadowed helps her case. Again, others have been with the crew longer, had more focus and are more tied to the main plot.
Her story arc is only a small part of the overall Kozuki plot, where she's played second fiddle to other characters. Again, not Strawhat material.
He's not an outstanding villain though, is he? He's not as strong as the two Yonko, the Calamities or Smoothie, Orochi and Kanjuro's betrayal has made them a bigger villains, Apoo, Hawkins and Drake have been around the series longer and have all that Worst Gen hype. A fight with him isn't going to be one of the main ones of the arcs, and tbh I think it would more see out her character arc than set up anything else.
Kin'emon is still a vastly more realistic candidate. The argument against him, that he has to stay on Wano, is an extremely poor one. Same one was given about Franky and Jinbei- they apparently had obligations they couldn't leave behind as well. If Luffy was to ask one person on Wano to go with him at the end of the arc, based on how this arc has gone so far, I don't see how anyone can argue that it would be Carrot over Kine'mon.
Me obviously.
Nah, what I'm saying is this, we both agree that prior to Jinbei and Carrot, that other members of the Strawhats did the roles we're talking about, yeah? And that neither roles were foreshadowed, certainly not to the extent of doctor, cook, musician so on.
So I'm saying that what really matters is how, in the present day, with everyone on the ship they are meant to be sailing on as Strawhat, the role is presented. Jinbei's clearly locked down Helmsman. Nobody else is doing that anymore other than him. On the other hand, people other than Carrot are being lookouts while Carrot is actually on the ship. That's not a good sign.
And could just as easily not show anything at all. Given how Wano's gone for Carrot so far, that's the more likely option.
I still reallly don't see how pointing out just how long Carrot has been overshadowed helps her case. Again, others have been with the crew longer, had more focus and are more tied to the main plot.
Her story arc is only a small part of the overall Kozuki plot, where she's played second fiddle to other characters. Again, not Strawhat material.
He's not an outstanding villain though, is he? He's not as strong as the two Yonko, the Calamities or Smoothie, Orochi and Kanjuro's betrayal has made them a bigger villains, Apoo, Hawkins and Drake have been around the series longer and have all that Worst Gen hype. A fight with him isn't going to be one of the main ones of the arcs, and tbh I think it would more see out her character arc than set up anything else.
Kin'emon is still a vastly more realistic candidate. The argument against him, that he has to stay on Wano, is an extremely poor one. Same one was given about Franky and Jinbei- they apparently had obligations they couldn't leave behind as well. If Luffy was to ask one person on Wano to go with him at the end of the arc, based on how this arc has gone so far, I don't see how anyone can argue that it would be Carrot over Kine'mon.
Lol
I agree that it wasn't a good sign that Carrot wasn't the one to spot the enemies this chapter, and also agree that we're at a stage where Oda really needs to stress the significance of the role in order to introduce it so late. That's why this is the pivotal moment IMO. As I said before, there's only one helm, whereas anyone can open their eyes and spot something. When talking about the actual lookout position, the crows nest, since Carrot was last there, there has yet to be a single character lookout from the actual position.
Whilst it's true that Carrot didn't do anything about the whirlpool, it's also true that Oda needed to have the crew split up at that moment for the sake of the story. Just look at Kanjuro escaping with Momo for more examples of that happening lol. Here is the real test though. They are literally sneaking through a massive enemy HQ with enemies crawling all over the place. Assuming Carrot's in the group with just the straw hats, then this would be the perfect moment to show off her skills. I will drop the idea if they're stealthing around and Carrot's there doing absolutely nothing and they get caught as a result.
Lmao
But that's the point. Carrot's been with them for so long yet she has no reason to be. The only characters in the entire series that have accompanied the straw hats for longer periods have been Kin emon and Momo. Both of whom are at the forefront of the Wano plot. That's why they're there. This story arc is literally all about them.
But WHY is Carrot there? She's just been randomly hanging around them all this time, for no reason, but getting closer and closer to them all the while. In WCI we got the trigger of a plot regarding her, the straw hats and the dawn. We will see how that plot develops, but there HAS to be a reason for why Oda's been keeping Carrot with the straw hats all this time. Why he unnecessarily brought her to WCI. Why he continues to draw her amongst them, as if she's one of them. He's established her as a significant character. She appears in the character guide of every volume of Wano, even in the volumes she doesn't have a single appearance. Whereas "background minks" like Wanda and Siciliian are just ignored.
That lack of personal focus in proportion to her panel time and and significance is precisely why she's a contender as it could simply be Oda laying down the foundations for a big development later on this arc.
Bruh...Jinbe's big fight in FMI was literally a shared fight...against fucking Wadatsumi of all characters...Couldn't even give him Vander Decken. Even Zoro got to defeat Hody once, and he wasn't even the character of focus that arc, unlike Jinbe.
Wano's a ginormous arc, and Carrot's potential matchup is the 3rd strongest in the BMP outside of the yonko. That's more than enough. Especially also considering Franky fought against the 2nd weakest CP9 member in a similar situation.
In fact, if things really do turn out like that, it would give even more credence to her joining. Luffy and the M3 have Kaido and the 3 calamities. Discounting Drake, the remaining 5 of the flying 6 + Daifuku can fight the rest the crew. Carrot can fight Perospero, an opponent on the same standing as the rest. Done.
A fight with meaning and potential for character development whilst at the same time being against one of the strongest enemies in the arc?? Yes please. I'd take that over Wadatsumi and Fukuro.
Kin emon, is someone who witnessed the fall of his country and the demise of his hero and lord as a result of someone taking adventure of a vulnerable sovereign and country and the abandonment by the only man who could do something about it. Momonosuke is 8...
I repeat...Momonosuke is 8... You really think it's an "extremely poor" argument to claim that the leader of the retainers for the 8 year old Shogun is going to abandon his country, (which historically led to its demise), to go galavanting around the world with some pirates despite having shown literally zero interest in ever wanting to do so? The character who missed 20 years of life on Wano and with his wife, is just going to say "screw this, I'm a pirate now!!"??
Are you seriously comparing the situation to Franky's whose dream was LITERALLY to ride on his ship as a shipwright. And to Jinbe who was already a veteran of the seas, who had legitimate reasons for not being able to join at the time, hence why he didn't. And only after he cleared up those reasons was he able to join. You think this late in the stage a nakama joining can be delayed AGAIN? And how would things even get sorted out? Wait 10 years until Momo becomes old enough to be sufficient without the aid of his retainers? Sorry but the fun will all be over by then.
You've lost your touch my man. Had Carrot been in this situation you'd be all over it.
Whilst with Kin emon, stupid head cannon is required to explain how he would abandon his many duties and obligations tying him to Wano, the opposite is the case for Carrot. You need to head cannon a reason for why she doesn't join. Carrot absolutely loves adventure and she also absolutely loves the straw hat crew. She has had a taste of adventure, but after all of this is over, and she has understood the importance of the straw hat crew and the dawn, she's just gonna say bye and head back to her life of isolation on Zou? You've got to be joking... Or others have suggested she'd set out to sea on her own for some reason. God knows why, considering she loves the crew so much and could just tag alone, like she's already done and join up with them. Or others that think she'll join the fleet, despite the fact that she's subordinate to Sicillian. Do people really think Carrot's character is gonna end up being the foot soldier for fucking Sicillian????
God no.
What's most intriguing of all is how Carrot's most apparent personality trait, her love for adventure as a result of her isolation on Zou is literally the core theme of the entire arc and is also the most apparent personality trait of the key figure in all of this, Oden. Both longed for adventure from their closed off islands so much that they literally stowed away, leading to them joining the crews of the future pirate kings. I don't believe this is coincidence and am excited to see what this truly develops into and means for Carrot.
I agree that it wasn't a good sign that Carrot wasn't the one to spot the enemies this chapter, and also agree that we're at a stage where Oda really needs to stress the significance of the role in order to introduce it so late. That's why this is the pivotal moment IMO. As I said before, there's only one helm, whereas anyone can open their eyes and spot something. When talking about the actual lookout position, the crows nest, since Carrot was last there, there has yet to be a single character lookout from the actual position.
Whilst it's true that Carrot didn't do anything about the whirlpool, it's also true that Oda needed to have the crew split up at that moment for the sake of the story. Just look at Kanjuro escaping with Momo for more examples of that happening lol. Here is the real test though. They are literally sneaking through a massive enemy HQ with enemies crawling all over the place. Assuming Carrot's in the group with just the straw hats, then this would be the perfect moment to show off her skills. I will drop the idea if they're stealthing around and Carrot's there doing absolutely nothing and they get caught as a result.
Lmao
But that's the point. Carrot's been with them for so long yet she has no reason to be. The only characters in the entire series that have accompanied the straw hats for longer periods have been Kin emon and Momo. Both of whom are at the forefront of the Wano plot. That's why they're there. This story arc is literally all about them.
But WHY is Carrot there? She's just been randomly hanging around them all this time, for no reason, but getting closer and closer to them all the while. In WCI we got the trigger of a plot regarding her, the straw hats and the dawn. We will see how that plot develops, but there HAS to be a reason for why Oda's been keeping Carrot with the straw hats all this time. Why he unnecessarily brought her to WCI. Why he continues to draw her amongst them, as if she's one of them. He's established her as a significant character. She appears in the character guide of every volume of Wano, even in the volumes she doesn't have a single appearance. Whereas "background minks" like Wanda and Siciliian are just ignored.
That lack of personal focus in proportion to her panel time and and significance is precisely why she's a contender as it could simply be Oda laying down the foundations for a big development later on this arc.
Bruh...Jinbe's big fight in FMI was literally a shared fight...against fucking Wadatsumi of all characters...Couldn't even give him Vander Decken. Even Zoro got to defeat Hody once, and he wasn't even the character of focus that arc, unlike Jinbe.
Wano's a ginormous arc, and Carrot's potential matchup is the 3rd strongest in the BMP outside of the yonko. That's more than enough. Especially also considering Franky fought against the 2nd weakest CP9 member in a similar situation.
In fact, if things really do turn out like that, it would give even more credence to her joining. Luffy and the M3 have Kaido and the 3 calamities. Discounting Drake, the remaining 5 of the flying 6 + Daifuku can fight the rest the crew. Carrot can fight Perospero, an opponent on the same standing as the rest. Done.
A fight with meaning and potential for character development whilst at the same time being against one of the strongest enemies in the arc?? Yes please. I'd take that over Wadatsumi and Fukuro.
Kin emon, is someone who witnessed the fall of his country and the demise of his hero and lord as a result of someone taking adventure of a vulnerable sovereign and country and the abandonment by the only man who could do something about it. Momonosuke is 8...
I repeat...Momonosuke is 8... You really think it's an "extremely poor" argument to claim that the leader of the retainers for the 8 year old Shogun is going to abandon his country, (which historically led to its demise), to go galavanting around the world with some pirates despite having shown literally zero interest in ever wanting to do so? The character who missed 20 years of life on Wano and with his wife, is just going to say "screw this, I'm a pirate now!!"??
Are you seriously comparing the situation to Franky's whose dream was LITERALLY to ride on his ship as a shipwright. And to Jinbe who was already a veteran of the seas, who had legitimate reasons for not being able to join at the time, hence why he didn't. And only after he cleared up those reasons was he able to join. You think this late in the stage a nakama joining can be delayed AGAIN? And how would things even get sorted out? Wait 10 years until Momo becomes old enough to be sufficient without the aid of his retainers? Sorry but the fun will all be over by then.
You've lost your touch my man. Had Carrot been in this situation you'd be all over it.
Whilst with Kin emon, stupid head cannon is required to explain how he would abandon his many duties and obligations tying him to Wano, the opposite is the case for Carrot. You need to head cannon a reason for why she doesn't join. Carrot absolutely loves adventure and she also absolutely loves the straw hat crew. She has had a taste of adventure, but after all of this is over, and she has understood the importance of the straw hat crew and the dawn, she's just gonna say bye and head back to her life of isolation on Zou? You've got to be joking... Or others have suggested she'd set out to sea on her own for some reason. God knows why, considering she loves the crew so much and could just tag alone, like she's already done and join up with them. Or others that think she'll join the fleet, despite the fact that she's subordinate to Sicillian. Do people really think Carrot's character is gonna end up being the foot soldier for fucking Sicillian????
God no.
What's most intriguing of all is how Carrot's most apparent personality trait, her love for adventure as a result of her isolation on Zou is literally the core theme of the entire arc and is also the most apparent personality trait of the key figure in all of this, Oden. Both longed for adventure from their closed off islands so much that they literally stowed away, leading to them joining the crews of the future pirate kings. I don't believe this is coincidence and am excited to see what this truly develops into and means for Carrot.
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To be fair to Jinbei, his entire point in the FI fights was to let the humans beat the Fishman Pirates and be seen as heroes. I'm not even sure why he attacked Wadatsumi, whether it was just to give him something to do or because of Oda's pathelogical need to screw over Sanji's fight in some way. Fighting wasn't his arc highlight at all, that came when he destroyed years of prejudice and gave his blood to Luffy.
Again, like with Jinbei, fighting Fukuro wasn't very important to Franky's arc. It was his relationship with Robin and betting on the Strawhats that made him stand out.
Carrot will need a lot more than fighting Perospero for revenge. Eight Scabbards, Hiyori and even Zoro are all doing that, and against opponents who are more important than Perospero. I see a defeat of him as a more natural end to Carrot's arc than a beginning of her being a Strawhat.
Kine'mon's arc is about understanding why Oden left, and why he wanted Wano to open itself to the world. Understanding that the history of Wano and the Kozuki Clan is linked to something much bigger, to the truth behind the Void Century. That outside does not equal bad, as he's thought for years, and that trusting outsiders is actually the way to progress in life.
His chances all depend on whether or not someone from Wano needs to sail with Luffy to truly understand it's history with the world, why Oden wanted to open the borders, why Toki travelled in time to this particular moment. If beating Kaido is all that's needed there, Kin won't go. If there's still more to the story after this arc is done, he will.
"Gallivanting around the world?" Yes, that would be poor writing. Travel specifically with the future Pirate King to Laugh Tale to discover the truth of Wano's relationship with the wider world, its past and what it needs to do for the future? And how this effected his master and his masters wife? No, that's fine. Momo's age is irrelevant, it's not like Kine'mon would be leaving him in his own. He's got a sister and seven other retainers, and Momo's arc here seems to be him living up to his father's legacy and gaining the respect of the people of Wano on his own.
We don't need to come up with a reason at all. The thing that will always hold Carrot back, with no headcanon involved, is that while Luffy likes her, he doesn't find her anything special, and from the way he's wrote her, neither does Oda. She can go to sea with someone else, she can decide that she's had enough adventure and needs to help her homeland, whatever is fine.
Are you really trying to go the route of saying the Oden flashback was actually a gigantic parallel for Carrot? Who didn't feature in it in the slightest?
If anything we know she's doing what Neko and Inu did, and you don't want to use them as parallels because in the end, they never made it to Laugh Tale and were overshadowed by the Kozuki
Again, like with Jinbei, fighting Fukuro wasn't very important to Franky's arc. It was his relationship with Robin and betting on the Strawhats that made him stand out.
Carrot will need a lot more than fighting Perospero for revenge. Eight Scabbards, Hiyori and even Zoro are all doing that, and against opponents who are more important than Perospero. I see a defeat of him as a more natural end to Carrot's arc than a beginning of her being a Strawhat.
Kine'mon's arc is about understanding why Oden left, and why he wanted Wano to open itself to the world. Understanding that the history of Wano and the Kozuki Clan is linked to something much bigger, to the truth behind the Void Century. That outside does not equal bad, as he's thought for years, and that trusting outsiders is actually the way to progress in life.
His chances all depend on whether or not someone from Wano needs to sail with Luffy to truly understand it's history with the world, why Oden wanted to open the borders, why Toki travelled in time to this particular moment. If beating Kaido is all that's needed there, Kin won't go. If there's still more to the story after this arc is done, he will.
"Gallivanting around the world?" Yes, that would be poor writing. Travel specifically with the future Pirate King to Laugh Tale to discover the truth of Wano's relationship with the wider world, its past and what it needs to do for the future? And how this effected his master and his masters wife? No, that's fine. Momo's age is irrelevant, it's not like Kine'mon would be leaving him in his own. He's got a sister and seven other retainers, and Momo's arc here seems to be him living up to his father's legacy and gaining the respect of the people of Wano on his own.
We don't need to come up with a reason at all. The thing that will always hold Carrot back, with no headcanon involved, is that while Luffy likes her, he doesn't find her anything special, and from the way he's wrote her, neither does Oda. She can go to sea with someone else, she can decide that she's had enough adventure and needs to help her homeland, whatever is fine.
Are you really trying to go the route of saying the Oden flashback was actually a gigantic parallel for Carrot? Who didn't feature in it in the slightest?
If anything we know she's doing what Neko and Inu did, and you don't want to use them as parallels because in the end, they never made it to Laugh Tale and were overshadowed by the Kozuki
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