General & Others I hate One piece YouTubers for this shit
- Thread starter ImmaIvanoM
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Okay, let’s get into it then
This is supposedly about Kaido/Yamato and Oden/momo
Easy question, what exactly unified these two? What plot/character arc unifies these two relationships to make them one cohesive theme? I hope you have an answer outside of “well there are parent/son so that’s the only thing in common”
Secondly, why does Kaido call Yamato his son? NOTE: I want Panels with this specific answer. I do not want headcanon explanations for this one.
Third, the big parallel between Oden and Momo is supposed to be Oden held up the scabbards, Momo holds up Onigashima. But this isn’t happen right? Momo put down Onigashima, he didn’t hold it up. So the parallel is broken.
Oh you’re gonna say “no the inheriting on Oden’s Will is through Momo obtaining Oden’s sword”… why didn’t Momo earn it then? We have very many examples of how people earn the swords of their predecessors, specifically with Zoro, why didn’t Momo earn the sword? He just got given it.
No No No, the big Oden and Momo parallel is NONE OF THE ABOVE (because none of it is well done) it’s Oden dancing for 5 years for his people, and Momo sacrificing 20 years for his peopl to become an adult. Okay. Why did Momo coming to this decision HAPPEN OFFSCREEN? Is this how you consider things “well done”? When big character decisions and changes happen OFFSCREEN? I bet you loved that Yamato changed her mind about joining the crew OFFSCREEN too.
Anyway, that’s ONE plot point from your list. I can go to each and everyone of them. But let’s focus on this one specifically
This is supposedly about Kaido/Yamato and Oden/momo
Easy question, what exactly unified these two? What plot/character arc unifies these two relationships to make them one cohesive theme? I hope you have an answer outside of “well there are parent/son so that’s the only thing in common”
Secondly, why does Kaido call Yamato his son? NOTE: I want Panels with this specific answer. I do not want headcanon explanations for this one.
Third, the big parallel between Oden and Momo is supposed to be Oden held up the scabbards, Momo holds up Onigashima. But this isn’t happen right? Momo put down Onigashima, he didn’t hold it up. So the parallel is broken.
Oh you’re gonna say “no the inheriting on Oden’s Will is through Momo obtaining Oden’s sword”… why didn’t Momo earn it then? We have very many examples of how people earn the swords of their predecessors, specifically with Zoro, why didn’t Momo earn the sword? He just got given it.
No No No, the big Oden and Momo parallel is NONE OF THE ABOVE (because none of it is well done) it’s Oden dancing for 5 years for his people, and Momo sacrificing 20 years for his peopl to become an adult. Okay. Why did Momo coming to this decision HAPPEN OFFSCREEN? Is this how you consider things “well done”? When big character decisions and changes happen OFFSCREEN? I bet you loved that Yamato changed her mind about joining the crew OFFSCREEN too.
Anyway, that’s ONE plot point from your list. I can go to each and everyone of them. But let’s focus on this one specifically
Why do you want to unify those two plots ? You should know that thematic milkings are important because they are used to enhance a philosophical thematic in a story. You do not need to unify each bit of plot to make it "one theme".
But actually in that case they are lol.. The unifying link of this arc is Oden. Who act as the catalizers for the notion of "parent". Oden acts as the "parent" that guides Momo, he acts as the "parent" that guides Yamato, he also acts as the "parent" that guides the scabbardbut most of all, he act as the "parent" that guide the revolution ideals and struggle.
This act of parenting doesn't come without weakness as in all those instance, Oden presents some choices that are not ideals. That's why the real theme of Wano is the "inherited will".. The will that is passed on. From Oden to the scabbard, from Oden to Momo, from Oden to Yamato and most of all, from Oden to Luffy. As Luffy will succeed where Oden failed, because he will not make the same mistakes.
Where Oden was relying on himself, Momo, Yamato, the scabbard and Luffy all choosed to rely on others. That's why Yamato made a different choice than the sea at the end of Wano and the complete opposite of his father's wishes, that's why Momo despite his age became a leading figure, that's why the scabbard despite their weaknesses manage to stall Kaido and that's why Luffy defeated a Yonko.
Their is no need for panel. Yamato is transgender, and Kaido aknowledge that. That's all. If you don't understand that point, you have a problem and a panel will not help you.
It's a parallel only in your head mate.
No, it's through his descision and his choice not to follow his father's wish. (note that both Luffy, Yamato and Momo act in opposition to Oden)
He is Oden's fudging son. Why would their need to be a trial for Momo to earn that sword. You ok mate ?
You are really doing paralell like a basic One Piece's fan. Parallel in story are deeper than that. Also no. The change in both Yamato and Momo's descisions was not offscreened. It was both in the panel, it was just so subtle that you didn't noticed it.
In fact if you knew me, you would know that I predicted the change of Yamato's descision the moment Yamato told Luffy that he would join his crew, nothing was a surprise here:
First here
And on the Nakama thread.
And you have debunked nothing. Like I said.. Challenging me to a storytelling fight was not really a wise descision on your part.
It's kind of my expertise mate..
But actually in that case they are lol.. The unifying link of this arc is Oden. Who act as the catalizers for the notion of "parent". Oden acts as the "parent" that guides Momo, he acts as the "parent" that guides Yamato, he also acts as the "parent" that guides the scabbardbut most of all, he act as the "parent" that guide the revolution ideals and struggle.
This act of parenting doesn't come without weakness as in all those instance, Oden presents some choices that are not ideals. That's why the real theme of Wano is the "inherited will".. The will that is passed on. From Oden to the scabbard, from Oden to Momo, from Oden to Yamato and most of all, from Oden to Luffy. As Luffy will succeed where Oden failed, because he will not make the same mistakes.
Where Oden was relying on himself, Momo, Yamato, the scabbard and Luffy all choosed to rely on others. That's why Yamato made a different choice than the sea at the end of Wano and the complete opposite of his father's wishes, that's why Momo despite his age became a leading figure, that's why the scabbard despite their weaknesses manage to stall Kaido and that's why Luffy defeated a Yonko.
Their is no need for panel. Yamato is transgender, and Kaido aknowledge that. That's all. If you don't understand that point, you have a problem and a panel will not help you.
It's a parallel only in your head mate.
No, it's through his descision and his choice not to follow his father's wish. (note that both Luffy, Yamato and Momo act in opposition to Oden)
He is Oden's fudging son. Why would their need to be a trial for Momo to earn that sword. You ok mate ?
You are really doing paralell like a basic One Piece's fan. Parallel in story are deeper than that. Also no. The change in both Yamato and Momo's descisions was not offscreened. It was both in the panel, it was just so subtle that you didn't noticed it.
In fact if you knew me, you would know that I predicted the change of Yamato's descision the moment Yamato told Luffy that he would join his crew, nothing was a surprise here:
First here
And on the Nakama thread.
And you have debunked nothing. Like I said.. Challenging me to a storytelling fight was not really a wise descision on your part.
It's kind of my expertise mate..
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:cheers:
Just a little longer. We're nearing the end of this volume (104 ended on 1055, so 105 will end on around 1064-1066, and Volume 105 will likely end around 1074-1077.
I'd say we'll have 5-7 more chapters of Egghead, maybe a bit more. Then, the Straw Hats either chase Blackbeard to Wano for kidnapping Vegapunk, or, they get transported their by S-Bear.
I think Green Bull and Yamato is what broke people the most in Wano. Zoro fans whined to hell, but, most of them are still here, and Zoro had a really good Wano showing, we're just nuts and wanted him to actually kill Kaido.
Those of weak faith abandoned the Sword God after Act 3, but that is when I found it. When it was most easy to doubt Zoro and ZKK, I peered deep into the depths of madness, looking for the path that would give Zoro proper character growth.
Anicent History, Lineage. Vegapunk can prove with DNA, if he gets access to Ryuma's corpse, that Zoro is actually Ryuma's son.
Watching some of my crazy theories start to come true will be fun, LOL.
Just a little longer. We're nearing the end of this volume (104 ended on 1055, so 105 will end on around 1064-1066, and Volume 105 will likely end around 1074-1077.
I'd say we'll have 5-7 more chapters of Egghead, maybe a bit more. Then, the Straw Hats either chase Blackbeard to Wano for kidnapping Vegapunk, or, they get transported their by S-Bear.
I think Green Bull and Yamato is what broke people the most in Wano. Zoro fans whined to hell, but, most of them are still here, and Zoro had a really good Wano showing, we're just nuts and wanted him to actually kill Kaido.
@CoC: Color of Clowns is a damn cult leader now 
Anicent History, Lineage. Vegapunk can prove with DNA, if he gets access to Ryuma's corpse, that Zoro is actually Ryuma's son.
Watching some of my crazy theories start to come true will be fun, LOL.
Those of weak faith abandoned the Sword God after Act 3, but that is when I found it. When it was most easy to doubt Zoro and ZKK, I peered deep into the depths of madness, looking for the path that would give Zoro proper character growth.
Anicent History, Lineage. Vegapunk can prove with DNA, if he gets access to Ryuma's corpse, that Zoro is actually Ryuma's son.
Watching some of my crazy theories start to come true will be fun, LOL.
Anicent History, Lineage. Vegapunk can prove with DNA, if he gets access to Ryuma's corpse, that Zoro is actually Ryuma's son.
Watching some of my crazy theories start to come true will be fun, LOL.
If it's revealed Zoro is actually Ryuma's son, I now know who's head to go after first
That's why Zoro constantly gets compared to the great Samurai of the past, and is so superior to the Dead Scrubbards.
Zoro IS an ancient Samurai from the days of Wano's legend. That's why his strength, grit, and personality are above the current era of Samurai. ZORO WAS THE MONSTER SAMURAI KAIDO THOUGHT DIDN'T EXIST, but, Kaido was Joy Boy's fight.
Why is Zoro lost? He's lost in time. Why are there no people in Wano who seem like they could be Zoro's parents? Because they were from the past. Why does Zoro have three golden earrings? Because, he came from Wano, the Land of Gold. Why does Hiyori naturally trust Zoro? Because his mother is Toki, and he reminds her of Oden.
Why is Zoro LITERALLY GOING AROUND THIS SERIES collecting all these fucking famous blades that were forged in Wano: Sandai, Shusui, Enma, Wado Ichimonji? ZORO WAS NEVER LOST, HE WAS FOLLOWING THE PATH OF THE BLADE, AND SEEKING TO RETURN TO WANO THROUGH IT.
Why was Ryuma so confident giving Shusui to Zoro? HE WAS LITERALLY GIVING HIS SON HIS SWORD AFTER BEING DEFEATED BY HIM.
Once Zoro returns to Wano, he will be given his father's blade by Onimaru, then turn Enma black while slaying Kaido over the Flower Capital, just as Ryuma did in the Ancient past.
Joy Boy was meant to liberate Wano from Kaido, The God of the Blade and Enma were meant to slay the dragon.
This has nothing to do with the theme you just said. This has nothing to do with “parent/son” as a theme
also, I asked what unites them AS A THEME. And you said Oden…. Like I said, you actually don’t know what a theme even is
I asked for panels, you said a bunch of headcanon with no panels.
Oh so Momo didn’t have to earn his shogun position too then… since he’s the rightful shogun, there was no need for a character arc of him earning the position?
It wasn’t. None of the panels you showed have a character arc happening that affects Yamato’s decision. It’s just Yamato shouting different things in different panels. You don’t even bother trying to find panels for Momo, not like it will help since you’re making shit up for Yamato
Ew. How old are you? “Storytelling fight”… Ewwww… Is this what you think “discussion” means? I guess that’s why you don’t even know what a theme is
START AGAIN.
We are still on this “parent/son” theme. Start again. You haven’t defended a single thing in this one point yet.
also, I asked what unites them AS A THEME. And you said Oden…. Like I said, you actually don’t know what a theme even is
I asked for panels, you said a bunch of headcanon with no panels.
Oh so Momo didn’t have to earn his shogun position too then… since he’s the rightful shogun, there was no need for a character arc of him earning the position?
It wasn’t. None of the panels you showed have a character arc happening that affects Yamato’s decision. It’s just Yamato shouting different things in different panels. You don’t even bother trying to find panels for Momo, not like it will help since you’re making shit up for Yamato
Ew. How old are you? “Storytelling fight”… Ewwww… Is this what you think “discussion” means? I guess that’s why you don’t even know what a theme is
START AGAIN.
We are still on this “parent/son” theme. Start again. You haven’t defended a single thing in this one point yet.
I think you don't understand what you are talking about sir :/
Yes this i exactly that I I deeply explained why.. But I won't do it again I'm too lazy for that. Sorry.
yamato being transgender is not headcanon, it's a fact that we can assert because of the repetition of trans matter moments. But I understand if you don't really agree with this. Even me was kindo effy on the question.
A position is not a sword. grow up mate.
Because I didn't show you those panels. THe panels where the changes of decision happens are those ones:
In those panel, Momo is realizing that he is too scared for the Wano people and therefore is not convince to open the border.
Just after that, there is a SUBTLE hint on Yamato's panel that he has a realization too. This "realization" won't be explained but Oda clearly implied that Yamato was understanding something at that precise moment because of Momo's words.
Well.. this is exactly the moment where a switch happened. Yamato was not yet convinced to stay on Wano as he still told the strawhat that he would join them later, but he had all the informations that he needed. The people of Wano could be in danger without him. And this was confirmed the moment Greenpull appeared. So no.. there is no a "switch" of descision shown into the manga. But EVERYTHING was clearly explained granted with subtility.
It became one the moment you started questionning my legitimacy.
But we are past this point mate, and I proved you wrong. So move on.
Yes this i exactly that I I deeply explained why.. But I won't do it again I'm too lazy for that. Sorry.
yamato being transgender is not headcanon, it's a fact that we can assert because of the repetition of trans matter moments. But I understand if you don't really agree with this. Even me was kindo effy on the question.
A position is not a sword. grow up mate.
Because I didn't show you those panels. THe panels where the changes of decision happens are those ones:
In those panel, Momo is realizing that he is too scared for the Wano people and therefore is not convince to open the border.
Just after that, there is a SUBTLE hint on Yamato's panel that he has a realization too. This "realization" won't be explained but Oda clearly implied that Yamato was understanding something at that precise moment because of Momo's words.
Well.. this is exactly the moment where a switch happened. Yamato was not yet convinced to stay on Wano as he still told the strawhat that he would join them later, but he had all the informations that he needed. The people of Wano could be in danger without him. And this was confirmed the moment Greenpull appeared. So no.. there is no a "switch" of descision shown into the manga. But EVERYTHING was clearly explained granted with subtility.
It became one the moment you started questionning my legitimacy.
But we are past this point mate, and I proved you wrong. So move on.
They already said they were leaving, but then Stella VP disappeared. It's not like they can sit and wait, Kizaru, Saturn, and the fleet are coming.
So, we've got to:
Find Vegapunk's Stella
Deal with Bonney (maybe we get Kuma's flashback now, maybe after we leave)
Deal with Kizaru and Saturn
Then escape
I also want to see Caribou dealt with, as well. I personally think the Blackbeard Pirates will show up in some small group to kidnap Vegapunk, too.
If we have a big fight, it could last a bit longer than that, maybe 10-15. But, I think S-Bear's just going to teleport the Straw Hats away, and that Egghead is about to be blown up, mimicking Ohara.
No, he didn't, Greg made it clear Zoro's backstory is still important (please don't ask me to find the fucking video).
Ya'll are the ones who gave up on Zoro's backstory, not Oda. Zoro's backstory is just so important to the series lore that it needs to get pushed back. IMO, the only Straw Hat with a bigger origin story will probably be Nami (since I believe she's a Celestial Dragon).
So, we've got to:
Find Vegapunk's Stella
Deal with Bonney (maybe we get Kuma's flashback now, maybe after we leave)
Deal with Kizaru and Saturn
Then escape
I also want to see Caribou dealt with, as well. I personally think the Blackbeard Pirates will show up in some small group to kidnap Vegapunk, too.
If we have a big fight, it could last a bit longer than that, maybe 10-15. But, I think S-Bear's just going to teleport the Straw Hats away, and that Egghead is about to be blown up, mimicking Ohara.
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Lolda is a fraud, dude. He already dropped that possibility.
Ya'll are the ones who gave up on Zoro's backstory, not Oda. Zoro's backstory is just so important to the series lore that it needs to get pushed back. IMO, the only Straw Hat with a bigger origin story will probably be Nami (since I believe she's a Celestial Dragon).