Controversial General Political Discussion
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I'm literally stating things by definition and mentioning history....
Why do you think I kept saying leftism/socialism? Because they are interchanglbe depending on perspective. The 2 examples I mentioned earlier was moving away from captialism and implemented a ton of socialist policies by definition and saw great success. My point was simply that there are nations that were succeeding when their government was transforming into a leftist one. Communism almost always failed because they were run by dictators, and that says nothing about what I believe in as I'm simply mentioning history. Feelings are irrelevant in this matter.
Why do you think I kept saying leftism/socialism? Because they are interchanglbe depending on perspective. The 2 examples I mentioned earlier was moving away from captialism and implemented a ton of socialist policies by definition and saw great success. My point was simply that there are nations that were succeeding when their government was transforming into a leftist one. Communism almost always failed because they were run by dictators, and that says nothing about what I believe in as I'm simply mentioning history. Feelings are irrelevant in this matter.
I recommend you check the dictionary. This link even has a helpful guide about when to use socialism and when to use social democracy.
Now about the examples you mentioned. Bolivia was (and still is) capitalist. He was basically moving to start a dictatorship and he just failed(I recommend reading about the São Paulo Forum). The fact is that the economy was based on commodities and he used the money taken from tax to invest in his policies and until 2019 wasn't able to move away from Capitalism as you claim and the policies could still be considered social democracy. Basically, without the money from the products he sold in the international market because of Capitalism he would be unable to do anything.
As the policies move away from Capitalism and more towards socialism and communism, the more issues we start to have until the place turns into a shithole.
Try again
Now about the examples you mentioned. Bolivia was (and still is) capitalist. He was basically moving to start a dictatorship and he just failed(I recommend reading about the São Paulo Forum). The fact is that the economy was based on commodities and he used the money taken from tax to invest in his policies and until 2019 wasn't able to move away from Capitalism as you claim and the policies could still be considered social democracy. Basically, without the money from the products he sold in the international market because of Capitalism he would be unable to do anything.
As the policies move away from Capitalism and more towards socialism and communism, the more issues we start to have until the place turns into a shithole.
Try again
I don't need to read that. Social Democracy isn't anti-capitalist; it's a capitalistic economy with strong socialist policies. It basically tries to find a sweet spot between socialism and capitalism which are complete opposites.
I'm well aware that Bolivia was a captialist and that Evo used capitalism. Once again, the point is how him gradually moving away from capitalism and towards socialism improved everything for a time.
You said leftist governments never worked. I was simply giving examples as to where leftist policies improved a nation under left leaning leaders. If you want to go to specifics and say no left leaning government survived until the end, then you are correct. What I disagree with is the idea that it cannot work or haven't worked before.
Do I think a completely left wing economy can work? Fuck no. It's so easy for a dictator to emerge.
I'm well aware that Bolivia was a captialist and that Evo used capitalism. Once again, the point is how him gradually moving away from capitalism and towards socialism improved everything for a time.
You said leftist governments never worked. I was simply giving examples as to where leftist policies improved a nation under left leaning leaders. If you want to go to specifics and say no left leaning government survived until the end, then you are correct. What I disagree with is the idea that it cannot work or haven't worked before.
Do I think a completely left wing economy can work? Fuck no. It's so easy for a dictator to emerge.
lol "animal" ? That's ironic ... 
Damn
Yes lol, learn about it.
Indeed. That's why a compromise between capitalism and socialism is problematic.
I read, I read don't worry
Rightist and centrist when they are given a encyclopedic explanation of a phenomenon:
"YoU sHoUld ChEcK ThE dEfInItIoN iN tHe DiCtIoNaRy"
Well... we never really tried...
Damn
Yes lol, learn about it.
Indeed. That's why a compromise between capitalism and socialism is problematic.
I read, I read don't worry
Rightist and centrist when they are given a encyclopedic explanation of a phenomenon:
"YoU sHoUld ChEcK ThE dEfInItIoN iN tHe DiCtIoNaRy"
Well... we never really tried...
No you don't. The reason those notion emerged is not because of the revolution invented something, its because someone needed to put a name on a political phenomenon.
The notion of right and left are the result of a political phenomen, a result of the conflict of value systems and are still relevant today. Although I can grant you the fact that they should not be named like that.
The left should be called "mostly right side" and the right should be called the "mostly wrong side". But hey.. let's not confuse people too much! Its already hard enough with people like you.
Meritocracy doesn't work and will never work. The reason is simple, its based on a myth. On literal false narrative and a ignorance of social structures.
Indeed, there is no such thing as communism in the world, just as there is no such thing as meritocracy.
This.
Indeed, its possible to be pro LGB and be a bigot.
I'm sure you have a lot of example of REAL leftist policies applied to society that were sh*t in practice.
Let me ask you : Do you feel like:
- Universal healthcare
- 35 hours week
- Minimum wage
- Union rights
- Unemployment insurance
- Rights of Strike
- Retirement at 60
- Abortion rights
- Same sex Mariage
and hundreds more...
... Are "sh*t in practice" ?
(just to know where you stand when you are talking about social leftist politicies)
The notion of right and left are the result of a political phenomen, a result of the conflict of value systems and are still relevant today. Although I can grant you the fact that they should not be named like that.
The left should be called "mostly right side" and the right should be called the "mostly wrong side". But hey.. let's not confuse people too much! Its already hard enough with people like you.
Meritocracy doesn't work and will never work. The reason is simple, its based on a myth. On literal false narrative and a ignorance of social structures.
Indeed, there is no such thing as communism in the world, just as there is no such thing as meritocracy.
This.
Indeed, its possible to be pro LGB and be a bigot.
I'm sure you have a lot of example of REAL leftist policies applied to society that were sh*t in practice.
Let me ask you : Do you feel like:
- Universal healthcare
- 35 hours week
- Minimum wage
- Union rights
- Unemployment insurance
- Rights of Strike
- Retirement at 60
- Abortion rights
- Same sex Mariage
and hundreds more...
... Are "sh*t in practice" ?
(just to know where you stand when you are talking about social leftist politicies)
One of major demerits is social inequality and bias in selection . It generally breeds Autocracy in long run .
@Logiko @Herrera95 @Zenos7 @Ravagerblade @Uncle Van If they ever met
At least my that's my headcanon. I bet y'all would get along great in real life
At least my that's my headcanon. I bet y'all would get along great in real life
H
@Logiko @Herrera95 @Zenos7 @Ravagerblade @Uncle Van If they ever met
At least my that's my headcanon. I bet y'all would get along great in real life
At least my that's my headcanon. I bet y'all would get along great in real life
H
I agree with questioning of course. But your victim mentality problem is to say that you are treated differently from the others.
To be ban for saying what you want, and possibly having that content removed, it is essentially to be censored either you feel like it or not. I'm not surprised you can't understand how censorship works since you want to censorship opposing ideas of yours on the premise to be harmful to certain individuals (again victim mentality)
Of course the old content creator fallacy of One Piece being about politics. There is nothing about politics in One Piece or at least the bare minimum.
One Piece story is about bad guys doing purposefully bad stuff to good people and then a neutral party (Luffy is generally good but he can do bad stuff too) came to put an end into bad guys tiranny and then good guys took over and everything starts to go well. The only politics here is that bad guys were corrupted and good guys are not. There is no mention (as far I remember) about different views on politics to allow people grow.
Also One Piece World is all dominated by monarchy. So the only real free people are the anarchists pirates that proves people can be good without law (Roger, Whitebeard, Shanks, Luffy and their crew).
It is way different from Attack on Titan for example when both parties are at the same side but have different views on how to make things better (despite still having corruption and other real life society problems) or even when two nations that kind of doesn't want war but they are forced to it because of their history. Attack on Titan is heavily political. One Piece is bare minimum if any at all.
Actually I don't know much about far right being problematic specially because coming from you anything on your side is far right doesn't matter if 1 cm or 1 km. But you being okay with being far left just means that you don't care at all about people since far left is related to dictatorships like the ones we have now at Venezuela and Cuba that are killing its people (the unlucky president that can't escape the country) or at the last China, Russia that are till today two of the worst periods of humanity where many people died.
I will change liberal for libertarian. So libertarian is essentially to defend every people rights equally. Alphabet people are included simply because they are people. The only minority we defend is the individual. No groups division.
Some times I even wonder how much libertarian I am since it seems reasonable to give up a bit of freedom in order to have safety. For example El Salvador president is highly condemned into libertarianism because he is being kind of a dictator when fighting the crime and not giving people proper justice. BUT! It is working. What is said is that there are probably innocent people who got arrested and that would be a horrible thing to happen of course. But to look at a country that was taken by the crime and now it is one of the safest of the world. Would that a price too high to pay? Or it is worth it?
OH ? Do you felt like I feel censored ? Did I ever said that I felt censored ? Dude... You are really underestimating me right now...
Until now, I've been able to say exactly what I wanted to say on this forum, no matter how many ban I faced
Until now, I've been able to say exactly what I wanted to say on this forum, no matter how many ban I faced
Of course the old content creator fallacy of One Piece being about politics. There is nothing about politics in One Piece or at least the bare minimum.
One Piece story is about bad guys doing purposefully bad stuff to good people and then a neutral party (Luffy is generally good but he can do bad stuff too) came to put an end into bad guys tiranny and then good guys took over and everything starts to go well. The only politics here is that bad guys were corrupted and good guys are not. There is no mention (as far I remember) about different views on politics to allow people grow.
Also One Piece World is all dominated by monarchy. So the only real free people are the anarchists pirates that proves people can be good without law (Roger, Whitebeard, Shanks, Luffy and their crew).
It is way different from Attack on Titan for example when both parties are at the same side but have different views on how to make things better (despite still having corruption and other real life society problems) or even when two nations that kind of doesn't want war but they are forced to it because of their history. Attack on Titan is heavily political. One Piece is bare minimum if any at all.
But you can call me far left if you want. Contrary to you, I do not take that badly. I would LOVE to be far left, I just don't have enough knowledge to be far left yet !
That's the difference between my political side and yours. You know full well that your far side is problematic and extremely dangerous. I know full well that mine is not.
That's the difference between my political side and yours. You know full well that your far side is problematic and extremely dangerous. I know full well that mine is not.
I will change liberal for libertarian. So libertarian is essentially to defend every people rights equally. Alphabet people are included simply because they are people. The only minority we defend is the individual. No groups division.
Some times I even wonder how much libertarian I am since it seems reasonable to give up a bit of freedom in order to have safety. For example El Salvador president is highly condemned into libertarianism because he is being kind of a dictator when fighting the crime and not giving people proper justice. BUT! It is working. What is said is that there are probably innocent people who got arrested and that would be a horrible thing to happen of course. But to look at a country that was taken by the crime and now it is one of the safest of the world. Would that a price too high to pay? Or it is worth it?
Dave's bits hit so hard because they hit on basic understanding so well, but I guess too well because almost tragically, people can't resist folding them into misguided sentiments. Like there is no productivity in arguing about their experience as a delusion rather than a truth to them with which we may not agree. And yeah there is a difference.
But man I don't know how this thread is a Logiko show. Maybe just less depressing than the warfronts?
But man I don't know how this thread is a Logiko show. Maybe just less depressing than the warfronts?
For meritocracy to exist, meritocracy as a system would need to work as intended.
This is not what happens in the facts. It truly cannot happen, like never. The concept of meritocracy relies on a principle that hard work and will alone can help you achieve your goals when in reality, social progress is the result of a large number of principle and social structure that usually enters in conflict with the concept of "will" and "hard work".
This is why meritocracy doesn't exist and will never, ever, exist.
I'm not. That's what I'm trying to tell you. The mods don't like me just like they don't like other people who break the rules or threaten their structure. I'm not special here.
The day when I will explain to someone that they are bigoted and I'm banned for it in a place where its permitted, then yes. I will feel like I'm being censored. But its hasn't happened yet.
Like I said. I don't feel like I'm being censored, simply because I accept the rules. I'm only trying to push them further. That's the difference between me and you.
Like I said, I'm not a victim of this structure of power. You are the one depicting a victim mentality here my dear.....
Fallacy ?
So you don't understand what "being political" means.. Gotcha
lol
(There is really nothing to reply to this... you are just in denial)
Here, a little bit of help:
Rings a bell ? Nothing ?
That can happen yes. Like any kind of ideology or party, this is not specific to the far left.
What you don't understand is that the far right IS PROBLEMATIC BY ESSENCE. The far left is not :)
Not exactly. Libertarianism is the radical side of liberalism. In reality its not progressive its sighly authoritarian. It believes in absolute freedom in every corner, which creates situation where some people's rights are booted over by other people's "freedom".
I don't know about the situation of this nation but I highly doubt that. No dictature "works" . Dictature is by principle a system that doesn't work since it removes foundamental rights.
Not for all socialists.
In the communism part of socialism yes. Not in the reformist part of it. I'm sighly in between for now.
It only is the case because I bring a vision that contradict the ones of the majority of the poster here.. So like any controversial subject, this creates a debate. And since I don't stop....
This is not what happens in the facts. It truly cannot happen, like never. The concept of meritocracy relies on a principle that hard work and will alone can help you achieve your goals when in reality, social progress is the result of a large number of principle and social structure that usually enters in conflict with the concept of "will" and "hard work".
This is why meritocracy doesn't exist and will never, ever, exist.
I'm not. That's what I'm trying to tell you. The mods don't like me just like they don't like other people who break the rules or threaten their structure. I'm not special here.
The day when I will explain to someone that they are bigoted and I'm banned for it in a place where its permitted, then yes. I will feel like I'm being censored. But its hasn't happened yet.
Like I said. I don't feel like I'm being censored, simply because I accept the rules. I'm only trying to push them further. That's the difference between me and you.
Like I said, I'm not a victim of this structure of power. You are the one depicting a victim mentality here my dear.....
Fallacy ?
So you don't understand what "being political" means.. Gotcha
lol
(There is really nothing to reply to this... you are just in denial)
Here, a little bit of help:
Rings a bell ? Nothing ?
That can happen yes. Like any kind of ideology or party, this is not specific to the far left.
What you don't understand is that the far right IS PROBLEMATIC BY ESSENCE. The far left is not :)
Not exactly. Libertarianism is the radical side of liberalism. In reality its not progressive its sighly authoritarian. It believes in absolute freedom in every corner, which creates situation where some people's rights are booted over by other people's "freedom".
I don't know about the situation of this nation but I highly doubt that. No dictature "works" . Dictature is by principle a system that doesn't work since it removes foundamental rights.
Not for all socialists.
In the communism part of socialism yes. Not in the reformist part of it. I'm sighly in between for now.
It only is the case because I bring a vision that contradict the ones of the majority of the poster here.. So like any controversial subject, this creates a debate. And since I don't stop....