Controversial General Political Discussion
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There's a difference between protests and riots. Protests are supposed to be disruptive, but they are usually organized with a specific goal. You have to disrupt the status quo to bring more attention to problems, and force those in charge to comply for the better of all. That's literally how worker unions started: from disruptive protests.
Riots on the other hand is just violent chaos. Completely disorganized violence that only harms the everyday people as their livelihoods shatter, making them more dependent on those in charge. There's a reason the media tries to make every protest seem as violent and chaotic as possible, and it's to justify police presence and suppression.
Riots on the other hand is just violent chaos. Completely disorganized violence that only harms the everyday people as their livelihoods shatter, making them more dependent on those in charge. There's a reason the media tries to make every protest seem as violent and chaotic as possible, and it's to justify police presence and suppression.
And 95% of the time, it's not effective. It does raises awareness. But it raises awereness with those who don't have the power. Those who have it usually feel even more legitimated by that. (we have the golden standard in France)
Change does not happens in the head of those who have the power. It would be very naive to think that. Change is created by the masses and put in power.
Yes. Seems to be working really well in the US right now..
No. It's organized.
It can become chaotic if there is no reactions, but not at first. It's an anger that is highly and precisely directed. Against the forces of oppositions, the police and the power or everything that could represent said oppression (big labels for example)
You simply can't get rid of oppression at it's highest degree by being disruptive.
Sometime, we need something a bit more spicy. And when even this is not enough and everyone is fed up:
Change does not happens in the head of those who have the power. It would be very naive to think that. Change is created by the masses and put in power.
Yes. Seems to be working really well in the US right now..
No. It's organized.
It can become chaotic if there is no reactions, but not at first. It's an anger that is highly and precisely directed. Against the forces of oppositions, the police and the power or everything that could represent said oppression (big labels for example)
You simply can't get rid of oppression at it's highest degree by being disruptive.
Sometime, we need something a bit more spicy. And when even this is not enough and everyone is fed up:
You keep mentioning France. What does a revolt against a Monarchy that had absolutely power got to do with the 21st century? Riots were more effective 200+ years ago. They don't do shit now.
You really love the idea of a civil war where everyone starts killing each other. Better hope the right group comes out on top and not another far right dictatorship.
Rodney King and George Floyd riots didn't do shit for black Americans but destroy their own communities and have higher police presence and/or higher crime rates.
Attacking and looting each other, destroying evertrhing you see, and giving those in charge even more power doesn't sound very organized.
You really love the idea of a civil war where everyone starts killing each other. Better hope the right group comes out on top and not another far right dictatorship.
Rodney King and George Floyd riots didn't do shit for black Americans but destroy their own communities and have higher police presence and/or higher crime rates.
Attacking and looting each other, destroying evertrhing you see, and giving those in charge even more power doesn't sound very organized.
Mate.. The only difference between there and now, was the structure of society and the rights of peoples. But to scare the power, it's the same things.
The only difference is that this time, the liberals in power are not scared for their lives, but for their place in society. A revolution like 1789 could perfectly happen again if things get out of hand. With no decapitations of course, but the violence could be similar.
Here I'm talking about a revolution, it's a Riot x1000, so of course, I'm not really advocating for it. I don't think it's necessary. But today most of the structures of powers in the world are showing that simple protest or general strike is not enough to make gov take a step back.
In certain countries France / Italy / Argentina / UK / Israel / China / Iran etc. the power is radicalized, sometimes, liberal sometimes ""communist"" some time liberatarian or straight up pre-fascist but in all cases authoritarian to a certain various of degrees. The strikes and peacefull prostest are not enough anymore, people are losing limbs, eyes, minds and sometimes their life simply by being in a protest. It's NOT normal.
In those cases (or in cases where the power refuses to listen to the population like in the US with BLM), riots or rather violent protest are the ONLY solution for the oppressed to be heared.
Yes, it's sad. But instead of blaming those who simply want to survive and make a change, blame those in power who uses the police and sometimes the army to enforce their oppression on people and repress the strikes and protests.
A violent protest SCARES the power. It might not change things on the spot, but it challenges its authority and weakens its legitimacy. This creates more opposition in order to create, later, stronger oppositions.
That's if - of course - people are not killed or jailed on the spot for protesting.
Mate.. you guys are the proof here that when someone tries to warn you that you are doing a lot of BS in power, you DON'T move and literally laugh at those who try to take the pacific road.
Project that kind of behavior to our society and you will understand why civil wars are not created by those who want change because of survival but provocked by people who refuses those changes.
War bad.
Ok.
So what do we do with that ? Do we try to listen to the whistle blowers and activist swho are warning the power and the world of the difficulties of survival of the populations ? Or do we laugh at them and try to delegitimize them saying that they don't really understand the economy and politic in general until we are force to face them in the streets ?
Yes. Violent protest should not happen. But sometimes, it's the only solution.
It literally started a fire in multiple countries for black minorities to organize and rise up against police violences mate. And it DID scare the power at the time, but indeed, not enough.
Riot are violent yes, but Riots are before everything inspiring. They show that we still have an agentivity and when the reason for rioting are just, the chain reaction created can be liberating.
You need also to understand that when I'm talking about violent protest. I'm placing them in a political context of activism. Violent protest alone can't create clear change. it's when those protest are pushed with social organization, mediatisation and different other political and ac tivist tactics that the result can really happen.
You won't get free healthcare in the US by demanding nicely:
- Either you take it because of someone you elected
- Either there will be a massive national protest happening
And looking at the situation of the working class there... it won't take long before people gets REALLY angry.
Looting and attacking big labels IS a form of anticapitalist protest. That's only when it happens against small businesses that it's problematic and must be stopped. But those would be marginal in those movements. THe majority will simply fight against the police.
Sadly, it takes time and ressources to really organize populations. And sometimes, it's a luxury.
[automerge]1725154600[/automerge]
Violent protests. Good for creating change or ineffective ?
The only difference is that this time, the liberals in power are not scared for their lives, but for their place in society. A revolution like 1789 could perfectly happen again if things get out of hand. With no decapitations of course, but the violence could be similar.
Here I'm talking about a revolution, it's a Riot x1000, so of course, I'm not really advocating for it. I don't think it's necessary. But today most of the structures of powers in the world are showing that simple protest or general strike is not enough to make gov take a step back.
In certain countries France / Italy / Argentina / UK / Israel / China / Iran etc. the power is radicalized, sometimes, liberal sometimes ""communist"" some time liberatarian or straight up pre-fascist but in all cases authoritarian to a certain various of degrees. The strikes and peacefull prostest are not enough anymore, people are losing limbs, eyes, minds and sometimes their life simply by being in a protest. It's NOT normal.
In those cases (or in cases where the power refuses to listen to the population like in the US with BLM), riots or rather violent protest are the ONLY solution for the oppressed to be heared.
Yes, it's sad. But instead of blaming those who simply want to survive and make a change, blame those in power who uses the police and sometimes the army to enforce their oppression on people and repress the strikes and protests.
A violent protest SCARES the power. It might not change things on the spot, but it challenges its authority and weakens its legitimacy. This creates more opposition in order to create, later, stronger oppositions.
That's if - of course - people are not killed or jailed on the spot for protesting.
Mate.. you guys are the proof here that when someone tries to warn you that you are doing a lot of BS in power, you DON'T move and literally laugh at those who try to take the pacific road.
Project that kind of behavior to our society and you will understand why civil wars are not created by those who want change because of survival but provocked by people who refuses those changes.
War bad.
Ok.
So what do we do with that ? Do we try to listen to the whistle blowers and activist swho are warning the power and the world of the difficulties of survival of the populations ? Or do we laugh at them and try to delegitimize them saying that they don't really understand the economy and politic in general until we are force to face them in the streets ?
Yes. Violent protest should not happen. But sometimes, it's the only solution.
It literally started a fire in multiple countries for black minorities to organize and rise up against police violences mate. And it DID scare the power at the time, but indeed, not enough.
Riot are violent yes, but Riots are before everything inspiring. They show that we still have an agentivity and when the reason for rioting are just, the chain reaction created can be liberating.
You need also to understand that when I'm talking about violent protest. I'm placing them in a political context of activism. Violent protest alone can't create clear change. it's when those protest are pushed with social organization, mediatisation and different other political and ac tivist tactics that the result can really happen.
You won't get free healthcare in the US by demanding nicely:
- Either you take it because of someone you elected
- Either there will be a massive national protest happening
And looking at the situation of the working class there... it won't take long before people gets REALLY angry.
Looting and attacking big labels IS a form of anticapitalist protest. That's only when it happens against small businesses that it's problematic and must be stopped. But those would be marginal in those movements. THe majority will simply fight against the police.
Sadly, it takes time and ressources to really organize populations. And sometimes, it's a luxury.
[automerge]1725154600[/automerge]
Violent protests. Good for creating change or ineffective ?
I can’t for the life of me understand why someone would waste their life and energy posting walls of texts on the politics thread and actually enjoying themselves in doing so.
Everytime I get into arguments here it brings me nothing but misery and stress. Idk why someone would go out of their way to do so.
Everytime I get into arguments here it brings me nothing but misery and stress. Idk why someone would go out of their way to do so.
For the exact opposite.
I know that you are talking about people like me. So let me tell you this:
I've been living the same day over and over and over again, for more than 10 years now... I'm stuck in a loop that I can't escape unless I loses one of the thing that I care the most about or die.
So.. when your life is a living hell.. (in that sence):
.. then writing walls of texts on the internet is a way to retake control. Learn. Reflect and Change inside of the loop.
I know that you are talking about people like me. So let me tell you this:
I've been living the same day over and over and over again, for more than 10 years now... I'm stuck in a loop that I can't escape unless I loses one of the thing that I care the most about or die.
So.. when your life is a living hell.. (in that sence):
.. then writing walls of texts on the internet is a way to retake control. Learn. Reflect and Change inside of the loop.
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For you maybe. Not for me.
It does not bring me any kind of stress. In fact, once I finish a post, I feel satisfied.
Sometimes I notice that some series of posts will take too much focus and reflexion which will be exhausting mentally. If that happens (like on the current thread of the fan art about Kizaru VS Big mom) I'm taking a little break and come back later with fresh ideas and more motivation.
I feel a lot of stress coming from your posts, you insult and curse a lot. So I get why you feel uneasy when you or I write long things here. Try my method : Remove the negative thoughts and the anger. Focus on the facts and your demonstration. Do not try to win the debate, just try to convince.
You will feel much better.
It does not bring me any kind of stress. In fact, once I finish a post, I feel satisfied.
Sometimes I notice that some series of posts will take too much focus and reflexion which will be exhausting mentally. If that happens (like on the current thread of the fan art about Kizaru VS Big mom) I'm taking a little break and come back later with fresh ideas and more motivation.
I feel a lot of stress coming from your posts, you insult and curse a lot. So I get why you feel uneasy when you or I write long things here. Try my method : Remove the negative thoughts and the anger. Focus on the facts and your demonstration. Do not try to win the debate, just try to convince.
You will feel much better.
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