General & Others Who still thinks Zoro surpasses Oden this arc ?

Would Zoro defeat Oden in 1 vs 1 combat at the end of Wano ?


  • Total voters
    264

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
and that samurai ... have to "reopen" his scar ... not create a new one

I can EASILY see Kaido say "you can reach his level" or "this was kinda close to what Oden did" or things like this ...

but "JUST AS STRONG" .... no .... I just don't EXPECT that

Oda and Kaido would be the judges of what will happen ... I'm ready to admit to anything Oda shows me even if I don't like it
The issue with that is opening the scar is a 2 sword attack. Zoro has gone straight to 3 swords so if he scars kaido a third mark will be made.
 

Seth

𝐊𝐨𝐤𝐮𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐬𝐮𝐢
It depends on what we are counting as surpassing Oden.

Scarring Kaido? Killing Kaido? Making one blade Black?

If Kaido's shadows indicate that Kaido sees all of them including Oden as Yonko level characters then I would argue if even Luffy surpasses Oden in this arc.
 
The issue with that is opening the scar is a 2 sword attack. Zoro has gone straight to 3 swords so if he scars kaido a third mark will be made.
I was thinking about this right now ...

yes ... maybe while Zoro try to reopen that old scar ... he add something to it as well ....

if that happened ... Kaido will comment ... we will hype Zoro to what ever level Kaido decide

but if he just reopen his scar ... I would say ... Zoro > any YC but Ben
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
Oden is not only a man who scared Kaido, he is a man who could fight on equal terms with the yonko Kaido:



Oden did not fight together with anyone, he was alone, and he could still give a scar Kaido permanently



So, to overcome Oden, Zoro needs to do better than: fight Kaido in 1v1, alone, combine with him in power with his club, and alone, make a permanent scar in his dragon form

There is definitely someone who thinks Zoro will overtake a legitimate top tier. See how illusory it is, it's incredible that this is still a discussion

Zoro >/= King is all these fanboys are going to have
Zoro already did something Oden couldnt do - he scored a clean hit on Kaido's body in his base form.
Oden has already been surprassed.
 
For the black blade argument.

Yes, i can understand why people think it’s too early for Zoro to do it. Too early, hasn’t yet mastered the sword, all good reasons

but

No matter when Zoro does it- he’s going to make Oden look bad retrospectively. Whether Zoro turns Enma black in Wano or by EoS, he’s doing something Oden failed to do in decades in the space of a year, and with a lot less battles.

There’s also the fact that there will never be a more narratively appropriate time for Enma to be made a black blade than now. Enma is Oden’s sword. It’s being used against the man who killed Oden. It’s being used in order to defend Oden’s family and people, and achieve Oden’s dream. It is in the land of samurai, where a famous swordsman, with a connection to Zoro, also forged his black blade- and that samurai‘s most important fight seems to have been against a dragon like Kaido

This being the arc where Enma becomes a kokuto just fits. The pieces are all there to be slotted into place. It won’t have have the same weight in a fight against Mihawk, or Shiryu. There, it just one of three swords, and tbh, Wado is more important, as the sword that has been Zoro’s since childhood. This is the arc where Enma is a big plot point, a tangible connection between the dead Oden and the present day fight.


I thought it would be Diamond Shiryu and the fight would be like a super Mr 1 version. So since OJ there’s been a good few developments that have changed my perception of what Shiryu will be like
-the DF, which no one saw coming. Ironically, given what it does
-the Blackbeard/Rocks connection, where we can now see that Blackbeard is trying to make Rocks 2.0. Can Shiryu match a young Whitebeard, as he was the second strongest Rocks Pirate? I don’t see why not, Weevil apparently can.
-Oda being willing to give a subordinate like Oden such heavy, well, wank. I don’t see any reason why he can’t do that for Blackbeard’s subordinate.




Oda increasingly emphasising to us that One Piece is coming to an end, and Zoro looking to have a much larger role in the Kaido fight than most thought would happen prior to Wano.

Hell, it was only a few chalters ago that some were still saying that Zoro would have no role at all.


I don’t see why Zoro is any different from Law, Kid or Killer in this regard.


Well, there’s no “neccessity”. It’s what i think will happen, and it makes sense to me given that the series is nearly done and Zoro will be the WSS soon, but that doesn’t make it a necessity. The story can go on without Zoro being Oden level- but it doesn’t make it any more or less likely.



That is something we’ll see when it happens. For one thing, Zoro mostly uses Santoryuu, not Niitoryuu. We could easily see Zoro make a new scar, opening up the old X shaped one and adding another line using his third sword, turning it into a more star shaped scar.


No, it’s not unfounded. You can say it would be early, but there’s no argument that Kaido is the best possible opponent for Enma to be made a black blade against.

I’ll also point out- Oda didn’t need to bring up the “make Enma a black blade” plot before the Kaido fight. Could very easily have came after it, with Hitetsu saying it could be something to do in the future. By suggesting it prior to a fight with Kaido, and given the relationship between Enma, Kaido and Oden, it does then bring up the possibility that Oda mentioned it then to set up it happening now.


It’s going to be counterintuitive to an extent whenever he makes Enma black, because of how late he got it compared to all his other swords. They are meant to be forged in battle, it’s not a case of you reaching X level of strength and BAM, you have a black sword. Zoro’s not going to have foguht anywhere near as much with Enma as his other two. Or Wado, at least, if Zoro changes Sandai as well.


Nor does he need to be weaker than Oden after Wano. There’s nothing saying that Zoro needs a big fight on Elbaf, so what would be wrong with him getting to Laugh Tale as strong as Oden was when he got there?
Let's focus on the Enma black blade discussion for a bit. What's the process of turning a blade into a black blade, and what would make it more likely for Enma to be first turned ?

If the amount of time one uses a blade is a significant factor, Enma should be the last sword Zoro turns into a black blade, and it could serve as confirmation that he has finally surpassed Oden due tot that process.

If there's something about Enma that makes it special and more likely to be turned into a black blade, there's two obvious ways to look at it :

1. Oden failed with a blade that's the easiest to turn black. That's significant Oden dehype, if Enma eases that process so much that Zoro can achieve that in two weeks with Enma, while his other blades remain unchanged after so many years.

2. Past users can play a role in turning a blade black. In the way that a black blade remains black once changed even if not used by the one who turned it black in the first place, it's possible that a blade can be pushed further into that process of turning it black by the one using it at a time, and following users can pick up where the process was left off.

If that's the case though, the question would be, how much of the leg work necessary Oden did and how much did Zoro add to it ? Is it really Zoro surpassing Oden if the process was like 95% complete, and Zoro does the last 5% ?
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
Let's focus on the Enma black blade discussion for a bit. What's the process of turning a blade into a black blade, and what would make it more likely for Enma to be first turned ?

If the amount of time one uses a blade is a significant factor, Enma should be the last sword Zoro turns into a black blade, and it could serve as confirmation that he has finally surpassed Oden due tot that process.

If there's something about Enma that makes it special and more likely to be turned into a black blade, there's two obvious ways to look at it :

1. Oden failed with a blade that's the easiest to turn black. That's significant Oden dehype, if Enma eases that process so much that Zoro can achieve that in two weeks with Enma, while his other blades remain unchanged after so many years.

2. Past users can play a role in turning a blade black. In the way that a black blade remains black once changed even if not used by the one who turned it black in the first place, it's possible that a blade can be pushed further into that process of turning it black by the one using it at a time, and following users can pick up where the process was left off.

If that's the case though, the question would be, how much of the leg work necessary Oden did and how much did Zoro add to it ? Is it really Zoro surpassing Oden if the process was like 95% complete, and Zoro does the last 5% ?
nope shanks and roger have the same sword so if its a matter of time gryphon would be a kokuto too.
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
Then the argument is that Enma is a blade that's much easier to turn black than Zoro other swords. And Oden failed to turn black a sword that facilitates that process exponentially when compared to other blades ?
There is no argument
oden in 30 plus years was unable to do so nor to his other blade
tengu clearly said it depends on ZORO not enma if it becomes a kokuto
 
LMAO

I'll give you this, Oden fought through the Beasts to face Kaido man to man. So there is a difference

But 51% of voters are gonna look silly if they're saying they don't think Zoro will be on a higher pedestal. Kaido himself will probably give the lip service
Will be a big difference wether Kaido says Zoro just reminds him of Oden or goes as far as to say that he's even stronger than Oden.

For example Luffy made him think of not just Oden but the likes or Roger or Whitebeard, and that does not mean Luffy is as strog as them or stronger.
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
Will be a big difference wether Kaido says Zoro just reminds him of Oden or goes as far as to say that he's even stronger than Oden.

For example Luffy made him think of not just Oden but the likes or Roger or Whitebeard, and that does not mean Luffy is as strog as them or stronger.
The difference is
Kaido with luffy said
Are you implying you are as strong as them
Not kaido said luffys as strong as them

With kaido already saying there is no samruai as monsterous as oden
All thats there is for zoro to prove that wrong and show there is. Kaidos comments on that will follow suit.
 
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