Anyone else finds Andrew Tate's downfall absolutely hilarious?
- Thread starter Adam 🍎
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@CarrotForNakama
There is evil and good period
I’ve seen poor people with no education who have a good heart and evil people with education who live in a better system
There are some good people who are forced to do certain things and a better system etc would give them an opportunity to have a better life but only because they’re good at heart
an evil person will steal regardless of his social status etc.
The people who are leading the biggest companies are the biggest thieves
Our politicians are the biggest thieves
Evil is evil
Corrupt is corrupt
You cannot change them and they don’t deserve mercy.
Have you ever witnessed true terror? True fear? Or did you ever saw these savage beings with your own eyes? I don’t think that you have evil intentions but let this be clear, violence is a sad necessity which got created by these evil scumbags.
The things you mentioned only help those with good hearts but don’t change the evil.
Not everything is explainable through logic, you cannot understand the human if you only look at the brain. Humans are not rational beings and some of them are egotistic which is an EVIL trait
There is evil and good period
I’ve seen poor people with no education who have a good heart and evil people with education who live in a better system
There are some good people who are forced to do certain things and a better system etc would give them an opportunity to have a better life but only because they’re good at heart
an evil person will steal regardless of his social status etc.
The people who are leading the biggest companies are the biggest thieves
Our politicians are the biggest thieves
Evil is evil
Corrupt is corrupt
You cannot change them and they don’t deserve mercy.
Have you ever witnessed true terror? True fear? Or did you ever saw these savage beings with your own eyes? I don’t think that you have evil intentions but let this be clear, violence is a sad necessity which got created by these evil scumbags.
The things you mentioned only help those with good hearts but don’t change the evil.
Not everything is explainable through logic, you cannot understand the human if you only look at the brain. Humans are not rational beings and some of them are egotistic which is an EVIL trait
Evil and good are just the words we put on specific actions.
But you have mostly seen "people".
Or because they don't know how to do things in any other manner.
It's just a word.
Same question:
Said who ?
God ?
Yourself ?
Your experience ?
The bible ?
Yes.
Violence is only a necessity if non violence is not enough to keep those people in check. Violence when justice is rendered is not a necessity. It's revenge. It's non necessary, it's inhuman.
Only if you think evil is like Dark Sidious. Even Vader could change.
That's why science has a lot of discipline : sociology, psychology, etc.
Who said we should only look at human brains ?
No, it's a human trait.
But you have mostly seen "people".
Or because they don't know how to do things in any other manner.
It's just a word.
Same question:
Said who ?
God ?
Yourself ?
Your experience ?
The bible ?
Yes.
Violence is only a necessity if non violence is not enough to keep those people in check. Violence when justice is rendered is not a necessity. It's revenge. It's non necessary, it's inhuman.
Only if you think evil is like Dark Sidious. Even Vader could change.
That's why science has a lot of discipline : sociology, psychology, etc.
Who said we should only look at human brains ?
No, it's a human trait.
Crossy you just reminded me why I love you
Bruh stop with the star wars references. We ain't talking about fiction here. Authors write what they want to see.
Thirst for revenge is a normal human feeling. You seem to dehumanise people who want revenge.
@CarrotForNakama Cross_Marian is about to snap mate, and that's rare enough. You're possibly retraumatising him with these posts of yours, are you fucking aware how your total disregard for people's experience with evil may upset users? Or people irl?
You want to be some better human being with higher morality but the problem is, you are in full denial of reality.
Bruh stop with the star wars references. We ain't talking about fiction here. Authors write what they want to see.
Thirst for revenge is a normal human feeling. You seem to dehumanise people who want revenge.
@CarrotForNakama Cross_Marian is about to snap mate, and that's rare enough. You're possibly retraumatising him with these posts of yours, are you fucking aware how your total disregard for people's experience with evil may upset users? Or people irl?
You want to be some better human being with higher morality but the problem is, you are in full denial of reality.
I swear my brain hurts
Reality is not what you’re preaching
My people always tried to preach love, unity and equality but got murdered over countless times. We’re not violent hungry people, you need to punish evil and protect the good.
It's a disgrace against every soul who tries to stay good in hard times
There are poor people who share their last bread with others and rich people who steal the last bread from others, there are people who endure pain and people who cause pain. There people who deserve some happiness and some people who deserve some punishment. You can’t mix them.
I can’t even change the people who are close to me. I can’t reach them.
We’re not here to destroy, we’re here protect the good
The rapist destroyed an innocent life, you spitting on the victim it you try to humanise the culprit
Preach bro
Reality is not what you’re preaching
My people always tried to preach love, unity and equality but got murdered over countless times. We’re not violent hungry people, you need to punish evil and protect the good.
It's a disgrace against every soul who tries to stay good in hard times
There are poor people who share their last bread with others and rich people who steal the last bread from others, there are people who endure pain and people who cause pain. There people who deserve some happiness and some people who deserve some punishment. You can’t mix them.
I can’t even change the people who are close to me. I can’t reach them.
We’re not here to destroy, we’re here protect the good
The rapist destroyed an innocent life, you spitting on the victim it you try to humanise the culprit
Post automatically merged:
Preach bro
We ARE talking about fiction here. The fiction of a world where we were able to create huge structural changes deep enough to make the carceral system crumble and the notion of good and evil vanish.
But like all fiction, what was created can also be the inspiration for real structural change.
I condamn the action. But you are right in the sence that even people who think about revenge must be taken care of.
In a real justice system, everyone is taken care of. Noone is left behind.
I'm sorry, did I post anything else than content pleading for a peaceful society here ?
People have the right to be upset. That don't give them the right to dehumanize people and essentialize them like you are trying to do here..
It goes for you as it goes for anyone else.
Right now, I see someone who just don't want to have their vision disrupted.
I'm nowhere near a perfect human, but I do base my reasonning on real life problematic and results.
You don't believe in people ?
Fine. Assume that fact.
I do.
And I will never let anyone try to tell me otherwise. Is that clear ?
Indeed because I'm not talking about reality here, but the future of our reality.
Only in an adolescent society.
In a real evolved society, we protect the good and we reguide the evil to be good again.
No. Go around real strugglers, go around real leftist who fight with political intent for a better society, and you will see that we take the carceral system just as seriously as we take preventive actions.
And we need to change that system so it doesn't happen again.
Same.
Rather than punishment I would call it rehabilitation. True justice don't punish. It rehabilitate.
Said who ?
I'm sorry about that.
Be careful on what you are actually saying here..
If you think humanizing a culprit is spitting on it's victims, you are COMPLETELY missunderstanding the process of actual Justice.
Justice is not here to get you revenge.
Humanizing a monster is the FIRST step in understanding the process of their crime.
Meaning that if you don't do that, not only are you completely missunderstanding the purpose of justice, but you are also keeping aways from you the possibility of preventing OTHER crimes.
So yes of course, it's hard to look at our own humanity in the eyes of a criminal. And NO victims should EVER have to do that. But society needs to do it. If we want to stop crimes, if we want to stop recidives, if we want to rehabilitate criminals, if we want a better society...
Stopping the essentialization of human nature is a necessity.
First step is to understand that : Criminals are people who DO crimes.
But like all fiction, what was created can also be the inspiration for real structural change.
I condamn the action. But you are right in the sence that even people who think about revenge must be taken care of.
In a real justice system, everyone is taken care of. Noone is left behind.
I'm sorry, did I post anything else than content pleading for a peaceful society here ?
People have the right to be upset. That don't give them the right to dehumanize people and essentialize them like you are trying to do here..
It goes for you as it goes for anyone else.
Right now, I see someone who just don't want to have their vision disrupted.
I'm nowhere near a perfect human, but I do base my reasonning on real life problematic and results.
You don't believe in people ?
Fine. Assume that fact.
I do.
And I will never let anyone try to tell me otherwise. Is that clear ?
Indeed because I'm not talking about reality here, but the future of our reality.
Only in an adolescent society.
In a real evolved society, we protect the good and we reguide the evil to be good again.
No. Go around real strugglers, go around real leftist who fight with political intent for a better society, and you will see that we take the carceral system just as seriously as we take preventive actions.
And we need to change that system so it doesn't happen again.
Same.
Rather than punishment I would call it rehabilitation. True justice don't punish. It rehabilitate.
Said who ?
I'm sorry about that.
Be careful on what you are actually saying here..
If you think humanizing a culprit is spitting on it's victims, you are COMPLETELY missunderstanding the process of actual Justice.
Justice is not here to get you revenge.
Humanizing a monster is the FIRST step in understanding the process of their crime.
Meaning that if you don't do that, not only are you completely missunderstanding the purpose of justice, but you are also keeping aways from you the possibility of preventing OTHER crimes.
So yes of course, it's hard to look at our own humanity in the eyes of a criminal. And NO victims should EVER have to do that. But society needs to do it. If we want to stop crimes, if we want to stop recidives, if we want to rehabilitate criminals, if we want a better society...
Stopping the essentialization of human nature is a necessity.
First step is to understand that : Criminals are people who DO crimes.
And
And this is the whole problem with this conversation.
You talk about some utopian future.
While other users are talking about HERE and NOW.
How can you create a good society when all the good people who could bring change are nit protected and have to live in constant fear of murderers and rapists roaming around freely?
And this is the whole problem with this conversation.
You talk about some utopian future.
While other users are talking about HERE and NOW.
How can you create a good society when all the good people who could bring change are nit protected and have to live in constant fear of murderers and rapists roaming around freely?
But that's not even what I'm arguing here.
And I understand cross Marian isn't either.
My stance on good and evil is that most humans are morally grey. Most people are capable of enotion, conpassion and remorse.
But there are certain individuals who are pure evil, you can't reason with them because they lack basic emotions and empathy. These people will commit harm because they lack understanding for other people's suffering. Such people cannot be reintegrated into society.
And I understand cross Marian isn't either.
My stance on good and evil is that most humans are morally grey. Most people are capable of enotion, conpassion and remorse.
But there are certain individuals who are pure evil, you can't reason with them because they lack basic emotions and empathy. These people will commit harm because they lack understanding for other people's suffering. Such people cannot be reintegrated into society.
It's pretty insane to claim that humans can't be evil or that there aren't any evil humans. John Wayne Gacy was one of America's infamous serial killers and the 'killer clown' subgenre was based on him. He kidnapped, raped and murdered dozens of children and showed no remorse in his actions. He was evil, no ifs, ands or buts. He is just one of many obvious examples.
Humans can be good, evil or anywhere in between. No matter what system is in place, there's gonna be psychos.
Humans can be good, evil or anywhere in between. No matter what system is in place, there's gonna be psychos.
Talking about the future gives us a roadmap for the present.
It allows us to look at the problem as they are. And find better solution that someone who only wants to keep the status quo advocate about. Talking about the future is a necessity to be able to struggle throughout our system.
Am I saying that we should let dangerous people go around free right now ? No. I'm saying that we must understand them, try to find other way to rehabilitate them in order to stop real life crime happanening right now.
For example, humanizing criminals right now, would mean depopulating prison for little crimes. Then we would have a clear way to work on the next big problem and so on..
Working on the carceral problem also means that we must prevent it. And preventing toxic behavior like the Pizza Turd is understanding that those toxic behaviors are the product of society. Not just the one of an "evil" person. For that, we must fight the patriarchy, we must fight the system, we must fight structure of power, we must educate the poopulation better, we must create a more inclusive ecosystem etc.
Humanizing people means understanding the problem. It's not being angelic about it, it's the opposite. it's understanding the complexity of humans interactions, of human sociology..
This is HARD work.
Like I said, there is no shortcut toward utopia. But it doesn't mean we must stop fighting for it.
That Pizza turd is an abject human being, but his reasonning is in complete coherence with his status and the status of the current society. His case is not a surprise.
Never said that. Conservatism is a legitimate position. I think it's wrong of course but I can understand it from a philosophical standpoint. What I do not agree with is what conservatism has become in the past few years. Conservatism has disappeared. It doesn't exist anymore and what is left has become the far right. In many country. Conservatism is one of the base for capitalism. So yeah.. I do not agree the slighest with that ideology. But it is a stance I can at least argue with.
I just don't want to argue with the far right.
You might think you don't. But what you are doing is pure essentialism. You are basically saying that some people are beyond saving because they are just "bad". And that "bad" will always exist because.. well because you think "bad" had always and will always exist.
Like right here.
And here.
Human can't be evil but they can DO evil things. That's the point I'm making. You don't "become" evil, you DO evil. We are not zombies, we are sentiant beings.
It allows us to look at the problem as they are. And find better solution that someone who only wants to keep the status quo advocate about. Talking about the future is a necessity to be able to struggle throughout our system.
Am I saying that we should let dangerous people go around free right now ? No. I'm saying that we must understand them, try to find other way to rehabilitate them in order to stop real life crime happanening right now.
For example, humanizing criminals right now, would mean depopulating prison for little crimes. Then we would have a clear way to work on the next big problem and so on..
Working on the carceral problem also means that we must prevent it. And preventing toxic behavior like the Pizza Turd is understanding that those toxic behaviors are the product of society. Not just the one of an "evil" person. For that, we must fight the patriarchy, we must fight the system, we must fight structure of power, we must educate the poopulation better, we must create a more inclusive ecosystem etc.
Humanizing people means understanding the problem. It's not being angelic about it, it's the opposite. it's understanding the complexity of humans interactions, of human sociology..
This is HARD work.
Like I said, there is no shortcut toward utopia. But it doesn't mean we must stop fighting for it.
That Pizza turd is an abject human being, but his reasonning is in complete coherence with his status and the status of the current society. His case is not a surprise.
Never said that. Conservatism is a legitimate position. I think it's wrong of course but I can understand it from a philosophical standpoint. What I do not agree with is what conservatism has become in the past few years. Conservatism has disappeared. It doesn't exist anymore and what is left has become the far right. In many country. Conservatism is one of the base for capitalism. So yeah.. I do not agree the slighest with that ideology. But it is a stance I can at least argue with.
I just don't want to argue with the far right.
You might think you don't. But what you are doing is pure essentialism. You are basically saying that some people are beyond saving because they are just "bad". And that "bad" will always exist because.. well because you think "bad" had always and will always exist.
Like right here.
And here.
Human can't be evil but they can DO evil things. That's the point I'm making. You don't "become" evil, you DO evil. We are not zombies, we are sentiant beings.
Last week at work we had a girl 15 years of age stab her brother. Luckily his ribs stopped the knife
When the lawyer asked her what would happen if she killed her own brother she responded with: Well my mom would just make me another one
There was nothing behind her eyes. Just void and evil. It sent shivers down everyones spine present there.
She comes from a normal middle class family. Both parents work, stable income, no booze or drugs, no abuse what so ever.
Her psyche evaluation was some of the darkest i've laid my eyes upon in last 6 years... and i had literall assassins at my work.
She is just pure evil in every sense of the word
When the lawyer asked her what would happen if she killed her own brother she responded with: Well my mom would just make me another one
There was nothing behind her eyes. Just void and evil. It sent shivers down everyones spine present there.
She comes from a normal middle class family. Both parents work, stable income, no booze or drugs, no abuse what so ever.
Her psyche evaluation was some of the darkest i've laid my eyes upon in last 6 years... and i had literall assassins at my work.
She is just pure evil in every sense of the word
That's some wild U-turn or hypocrisy here. There are multiple posts of yours on the politic threads where you go in a rant against the "right" and said many times that the left has science and the right has bigotry and myths.
It's true that the current trend is on the right. But conservatism still exists. Just look at your government.
And btw, thinking that history is nothing but the evolution of societies toward more social justice and whatnot, just like your posts here are strongly suggesting, is crazy naive. How do you manage to believe that the trend is on the far-right but « in 200 years we’ll do better » ? Literally no reason to think so. Unless you’re some kind of Hari Seldon obviously
It's true that the current trend is on the right. But conservatism still exists. Just look at your government.
And btw, thinking that history is nothing but the evolution of societies toward more social justice and whatnot, just like your posts here are strongly suggesting, is crazy naive. How do you manage to believe that the trend is on the far-right but « in 200 years we’ll do better » ? Literally no reason to think so. Unless you’re some kind of Hari Seldon obviously
And I still stand on those point. The right indeed has mostly bigotery and myths on their side. But when i'm talking about the right now, i'm talking about the actual right in our current society : the one that took the place of the previous right.
An example of a right I could argue with, is the right of Joe Biden and Macron (eventually some slight conservative ones) those right I can discuss with. They still relies on myth, but they are not completely compromised by bigotery, violence and evangelical myth.
I agree, this right I can discuss with. But right now it's not "the right" it's "the center". (even if I refuse to call them that)
Indeed you are right that thinking that history is a constant evolution toward progress is a fallacy (not just naive). But that's not what I'm doing. Here, i'm not saying that society will inherantly progress, I say that I'm "optimistic". In short, I have some faith in human potential.
Because even humanity's interest lies in progress more than it lies in conservatism.
- The end of patriarchy means more liberty for everyone
- The end of capitalism means more liberty and more power for the masses
- The end of individualistic myth means a more precise knowledge of the human condition and therefore and better comprehension of what is to come
In short, humanity will gain much more in being socially progressive than being recklessely conservatist.
That's why I have faith in humanity.
An example of a right I could argue with, is the right of Joe Biden and Macron (eventually some slight conservative ones) those right I can discuss with. They still relies on myth, but they are not completely compromised by bigotery, violence and evangelical myth.
I agree, this right I can discuss with. But right now it's not "the right" it's "the center". (even if I refuse to call them that)
Indeed you are right that thinking that history is a constant evolution toward progress is a fallacy (not just naive). But that's not what I'm doing. Here, i'm not saying that society will inherantly progress, I say that I'm "optimistic". In short, I have some faith in human potential.
Because even humanity's interest lies in progress more than it lies in conservatism.
- The end of patriarchy means more liberty for everyone
- The end of capitalism means more liberty and more power for the masses
- The end of individualistic myth means a more precise knowledge of the human condition and therefore and better comprehension of what is to come
In short, humanity will gain much more in being socially progressive than being recklessely conservatist.
That's why I have faith in humanity.
