General & Others Anyone who uses a sword is a swordsman. Yes, including Big Mom and Kizaru.

Being a swordswoman is irrelevant in itself and not the decisive aspect, the relevant thing is if her swordsmanship is the peak of her might, if so, yes she is under Mihawk, if not, it´s stupid to assume so.
Guys around here are hypocritical, they blame people for putting swordsmanship on a pedestal with "true swordsman and all" (which i agree with is nonsense, there is a code that some swordsman who respect each other live by, but it was never stated as requisite for being considered a swordsman, but simply one that you can respect and fight on equal terms).
At the same time they put swordsmanship on a pedestal themselves, like it describes everything about a fighter, and once you are considered one, everything else becomes irrelevant and you are only judged based on that.

Swordsmanship is a fighting style that uses a sword, nothing else needs to be said about it, and the peak of that fighting style is Mihawk. And a swordsman is someone who can use or is using swordsmanship, also very clear.
But if you use swordsmanship but have stronger fighting styles, are you limited by your ability in your swordsmanship? Everyone with half a brain would answer no.

Whitebeard could match Roger with his bisento and his uber haki, even assuming Bisento is not a sword, that would make him a spearman, right? Using a sword makes you a swordsman, so using a spear makes you a spearman consequently (you can call it spear holder, sounds better). Is Whitebeard limited by his spear mastery? He was able to match Roger, and made Blackbeard his bitch while being half dead, how could he not considered to be one. Yet the strongest part of Whitebeard is his fruit, the most destructive fruit in the world, to claim he would be limited by only the bisento is nonsense.
Anyone would agree to this, but suddenly with swords it is a different story since swords are holy and need to have different rules, this is the hypocritical part.

There are many mixed martial artists (which boxing is a part of obviously) who also fought in boxing only matches and are listed in the federations, a lot of them can compete in boxing even on a high level but have not reached or won titles but do hold titles in the UFC and other MMA organizations, because their skill in boxing, while great, is trumped by their skill and strength in grappling and their ground game for example.
Can these people not be considered boxers anymore? The boxing world disagrees.
Are they limited by their boxing? Obviously not.
And while they might lose against the respective boxing champions of the many federations and classes, using their strongest fighting style might change things, does not have to obviously, but can.

That´s really all that needs to be said about it.
You perfectly nailed it. There's nothing you can add further.
 
You perfectly nailed it. There's nothing you can add further.
It makes sense, given that nearly all of the most important and strongest characters from past and present are somehow swordsmen, as they are either proficient in it or wield a blade. Roger, Xebec, Shiki, Big Mom, Fujitora, Kizaru. It would be odd that Mihawk is the peak strength wise among those with the blade, given that he is basically a side character. Sure, being the WSS in the era of piracy doesn't mean you are the strongest swordsman in history, but given the theme of Shonen, where the new generation surpasses the old one, Zoro would be under the pressure of surpassing all those big names, solely because they wielded a sword.

I feel like Im also makes use of a sword. And if we got a flashback of Im and Joyboy fighting with blades, I can see where Zoro fans will head.

:josad:
 
It makes sense, given that nearly all of the most important and strongest characters from past and present are somehow swordsmen, as they are either proficient in it or wield a blade. Roger, Xebec, Shiki, Big Mom, Fujitora, Kizaru. It would be odd that Mihawk is the peak strength wise among those with the blade, given that he is basically a side character. Sure, being the WSS in the era of piracy doesn't mean you are the strongest swordsman in history, but given the theme of Shonen, where the new generation surpasses the old one, Zoro would be under the pressure of surpassing all those big names, solely because they wielded a sword.

I feel like Im also makes use of a sword. And if we got a flashback of Im and Joyboy fighting with blades, I can see where Zoro fans will head.

:josad:
If they fought either Mihawk or Zoro, would they result to using their sword?
If yes then they are swordsmen who fall under the WSS title
 
Lmfao the bitterness and the gymnastics cause roger is a swordsman.
Roger is a swordsman. And swordsmanship might be his main power (inb4 some advanced stuff with CoC will be revealed that matches Whitebeard's Gura power). But Mihawk is the WSS of the era of piracy. It doesn't necessarily mean he is as strong or stronger than Roger. Roger is Primebeard's equal. Mihawk cannot be on that level.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
its as simple as that. If you use a sword, you are a swordsman. If you don't use a sword, you are not a swordsman. This isn't up for debate, it is the literal definition of the word "swordsman."

Yet, apparently, this is a somewhat controversial statement in the fandom. Because apparently there is some sort of distinction between "real swordsmen" and "fake swordsmen". According to some fans, the real world definition of a swordsman does not apply to the world of one piece and that for some reason, Oda came up with his own fake definition of this word that governs the series.

This is ultimately nonsense. Throughout the series, there has been no distinction between swordsmen in which swordsmen who use DFs, or some other style of fighting , are considered less of a swordsman. And if not for the existence of two characters, nobody would claim that such a distinction exists.

The only reason people make the absurd claim that people who use swords are not swordsmen is due to the existence of Zoro and Mihawk. Any attempt to make a distinction between "fake swordsmen" and "real swordsmen" by fans is almost always an attempt to, in most cases, downplay the powerlevel of Mihawk and EoS zoro.

Keep in mind that when fans denote a character as a "fake swordsman" they are almost never talking about characters who almost never use swords, nor are they talking about characters like Luffy, who have been shown wielding a sword but have shown zero swordsmanship skills. Rather, they refer to characters who by feats, are actually some of the strongest swordsmen in the verse, characters who have insane swordsmanship feats.

Specifically, I see see controversy over whether or not Big Mom and Kizaru are swordsmen. Let me break it down.

Ikoku is one of the strongest swordsman feats we have seen in the series. In fact it is so strong that the only character who has ever done something better was mihawk himself. Like seriously, this is a slash that goes through the seducing woods, through a fucking mountain, and then creates a tsunami on the way out. How can Big Mom not be a swordsman if she is stronger than 99% of swordsman with her sword alone?

what's more is that she has a defined swordsmanship style. She uses the same style of swordsmanship as the giants of elbaf. She isn't recklessly swinging her sword around, like I heard some fans claim she would when Napoleon was first revealed to be a sword, no she uses an actual style of swordsmanship.

furthermore, not only is Ikoku one of the strongest swordsmanship feats we have seen, it is one of the strongest moves big mom has ever shown. I've seen some people claim that her powerlevel might not be effected if she didn't have her sword. This is blatantly false as she'd lose access to a big source of AoE and DC. She'd still be top tier, but that's only because big mom is so overpowered that even when she is utterly nerfed, she can still neg diff a yonko commander like queen.

Lets not forget that with her sword, she was able to clash on par with Kaido's club, the same club that 1 shotted G4 Luffy. Again, so called "true swordsman" zoro would have been 1 shot if he was in big mom's place.

Now for Kizaru


Similar to big mom, Kizaru used a named sword technique, ama no murakumo. While Kizaru does have other techniques, Rayleigh is the strongest person Kizaru has ever 1v1ed. In this fight, he chose not to use any of his kicks or his laser beams but rather used Ama no murakumo. This at least implies that Ama no murakumo is one of his strongest techniques and that he has exceptional swordsmanship.

Rayleigh is one of the strongest swordsmen in the verse, boasting the rare internal destruction CoA as well as barrier CoA. Only someone who is likewise an expert at swordsmanship could ever clash on par with him.

similarly, it doesn't make sense for Kizaru not to be a swordsman when he showed better feats than 99% of swordsmen.

Ultimately, anyone who uses a sword is a swordsman. The reason for this is simple, it is the basic definition of the word.
The Kizaru thing is bullshit lol. There’s a difference between a swordsman and a character proficient in swordsmanship.

Kizaru uses light kicks/other light attacks, yes he has abilities with swordsmanship but it clearly isn’t a fighting style he uses in every circumstance.

Shanks? Sure, swordsman. Big Mom? Sure. Fuji? Complicated, but for the sake of argument, why not lol.

Kizaru? Come on now lol. Knowing how to fight with a sword doesn’t make you a swordsman by default,
 

ZenZu

The only one who can beat me is me
Kaku has 2 physicall swords. He is a 4 sword style swordsman. 2 of the other swords are his legs. So explain to me how an individual that only has 2 physicall swords can still qualify to be a swordsman since he doesnt have 4 physicall sword.

Kizaru does have his sword. It just happens to be made of light.

Yes every cp9 member is a swordsman. Kaku just happens to bethe best out of all of them. He even stated it himself that his swordsmanship is the best out of the cp9. A person who is not a swordsman would not be trained in swordsmanship. Since all cp9 learnt swordsmanship, they are all swordsmen. Cp9 members dont needto carry physicall swords since their bodies are they weapons as alluded to in the conversation between Kaku and Zoro.

All swords are blades but not all blades are swords. A knife and a sword, bisento are all bladed weapons but only by using a sword do you become a swordsman. Daz bones' body being made of blades doesnt mean he is automatically a swordsman.

Correct me if am mistaken, but I have never see Fuji, Rayleigh, Shiki, Brooke, Kinemon, Law, Ryuma etc callthemselves swordsmen yetthey still are. You requiring Kizaruto call himself a swordsman to believe it makes no sense when through out the series only 5 people as far as I can recall have called themselves swordsmens: Mihawk, Zoro, Kuina and Vista.

I dont mean to be rude but you last point insults your own intelligence. The fact that you had to use Luffy's named attack as a means to justify you opinion shows you dont have good point to debate with. Anyway, I will entertain your argument and show you the difference. Kizaru and Luffy are completely different. Luffy only names his attacks after guns etc, he doesnt actually make a gun with his power then use that gun to fight with it. Kizaru on the other had, named an attack based on a sword then created asword with his power and fought using that sword like how a swordman would. You would have a leg to stand on if all Kizaru did was name an attack after a sword but not use his power to create a sword then fight with a sword.
All of this is irrelevant filler talk which is besides the point.

You admitted every cp9 member is a swordsman because they can use rankyaku so you have automatically gone against your own premise that you need to use a sword to be a swordsman.

Kaku is a swordsman because he uses swords he then uses rankyaku to amplify his swordsmanship. That's it. Rankyaku =/= swords.

But it's nice knowing you think all of the cp9 were swordsman. Even though you are clearly wrong as it concerns Oda. Kaku was time and time again referred to as a swordsman but no one else.
 
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Hopefully we hear more about the wss title and mihawk this arc. Like if mihawk ever came to wano after all the swordsman hype

Like mihawk seemingly never tried to challenge anyone after shanks but would be cool if that was wrong

Maybe if he does go with shanks he might try to fight fujitora
 
All of this is irrelevant filler talk which is besides the point.

You either admit every cp9 member is a swordsman because they can use rankyaku or you drop that argument and start supporting your own premise that you need to use a sword to be a swordsman.

Kaku is a swordsman because he uses swords he then uses rankyaku to amplify his swordsmanship. That's it. Rankyaku =/= swords.

You're contradicting yourself more than once if you don't admit Fukuro, Kalifa etc. are swordsman. You've already done it once by ignoring your own conditions.
Lol, cp9 are not swordsmen because of rankyaku, they are swordsmen cause the learnt swordsmanship and know how to use swords. They use they bodies as their sword.

Kaku is a 4 sword style swordsman. He does not us rankyaku to amplify his swordsmanship. It is part of his swordsmanship cause without it he would be a 2 sword style swordsman instead of 4.

Bruh, all you had to do was to read the 3rd paragraph in my post that you quoted to see that I stated all cp9 are swordmen. Am very consistent on my position. If you fight with sword you are a swordsman. Be it you body, ability etc it doesn matter. If you wont even both to read the post in its entirity, why bother quoting and replying.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
Well, Big Mom is even more complicated, given that she is a natural freak that breaks through giant swords with her fist as a child, breaks Big Father apart with punches and tosses Queen around with wrestling. Plus having a soul fruit to create powerful homies that cannot be harmed by Haki.
Not really. Being a physical monster doesn’t disqualify you from being a swordsman when it all comes down to it.

Big Mom used her sword when she fought Kaido, she used it when she fought jinbe, she used it the entire time she was blood lusted in WCI, it is clearly her preferred fighting style.

Kizaru on the other hand..he used light blasts when he wanted to kill Whitebeard and had otherwise just preferred laser beams and kicks, only resorting to his sword one time. He is likely not a traditional swordsman in the same sense as the others.

Like I said, being proficient in swordsmanship =/= being an actual swordsman. Lol
 

ZenZu

The only one who can beat me is me
Lol, cp9 are not swordsmen because of rankyaku, they are swordsmen cause the learnt swordsmanship and know how to use swords. They use they bodies as their sword.

Kaku is a 4 sword style swordsman. He does not us rankyaku to amplify his swordsmanship. It is part of his swordsmanship cause without it he would be a 2 sword style swordsman instead of 4.

Bruh, all you had to do was to read the 3rd paragraph in my post tayt you quoted to see that I stated all cp9 are swordmen. Am very consistent on my position. If you fight with sword you are a swordsman. Be it you body, ability etc it doesn matter
Yea I edited my comment.

I'm saying you need to change your premise "if you use a sword, you're a swordsman"

To :

If you have ever at any point in your life trained with a sword you're a swordsman.

I don't have any problem with the latter. That's just an argument concerning semantics. Narratively speaking it holds no weight in One Piece.
 
Big Mom used her sword when she fought Kaido, she used it when she fought jinbe, she used it the entire time she was blood lusted in WCI, it is clearly her preferred fighting style.
Sure, but I compared Big Mom with Fujitora here, not Kizaru, lol. Fujitora seems more like he is proficient in the art of swordsmanship. He always draws his sword. Big Mom however seems to rather choose a sword as a weapon of choice. "spear of elbaf" is a technique not exclusive to swords as well; a giant used the same technique with an axe. So if Big Mom used an axe and infused it with a homie, I think she would be far less nerfed than Fujitora with an axe.
 
Yea I edited my comment.

I'm saying you need to change your premise "if you use a sword, you're a swordsman"

To :

If you have ever at any point in your life trained with a sword you're a swordsman.

I don't have any problem with the latter. That's just an argument concerning semantics. Narratively speaking it holds no weight in One Piece.
The premise you stated would be valid if you still use a sword to fight.
However, if you stopped using it and fight with a different style then you were a swordsman I.e past tense. If you later started to fight with the sword again, then you will be a swordsman from that point.

Sanji was a swordsman, however, he stopped as a result he no longer is a swordsman. If he uses it again he will be a swordsman.
Luffy/Ace used to fight with a staff, so he was a staff user. However he stopped as a result he is no longer a staff user. If he uses it again he will be a staff user
Bb used to use a claw, so he claw user, however he stopped as a result he no longer is a claw user. If he uses it again then he will be a claw user.

If you stopped/retired doing something, you are no longer referred to be actively doing it, it will be in the past tense. Eg, Michael Jordan is not called a basketball player. It is said he was a basket ball player.

Rayleigh no longer referred to himself as a swordsman/pirate, after retirement. He referred to himself as a ship coaster cause that is what he he is currently doing. However, when he went against Kizaru and fought against he, he fought as a swordsman and was even lamenting the fact that in his retirement, he became old and rusty when it came to the sword. This informs usher stopped being a swordsman as he no longer fought with the sword during his retirement
 
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Ikoku is not a sword technique, Brogy did it with an axe
Zoro can use a scythe to reproduce 3 sword style techniques.

Just because Brogy can use ikoku with an axe doesnt disqualify it from being a sword technique. With the same token, just because BM can use it with a sword doesnt discount it from being an axe technique.

We dont have enough info to determine what type of technique it is. All we know is that BM learnt it from the giants and uses it as a sword technique.

Ikoku might be BM's/Brogy adaptation of it make it suit their fighting style similar to how Luffy's red hawk is an adaptation of Ace's hiken if I remember correctly. However, once a technique is adapted to suit a particular fighting style it becomes part ofthat fighting style. Redhawk is not Ace's fire style it is Luffy's rubber style.
 
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