General & Others Balance of Powers of the Marines, Yonko and Shichibukai
- Thread starter Uncle Van
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they never go anywhere ... THEY are WG ... they are entire force of world
tbh, idk WHY they said that ... Shanks must have some hidden military powers or his crew is even stronger than what we think
any way
Gorosei gave highest level of respect to Shanks
Sengoku gave highest level of respect to Whitebeard (without sickness)
tbh, idk WHY they said that ... Shanks must have some hidden military powers or his crew is even stronger than what we think
any way
Gorosei gave highest level of respect to Shanks
Sengoku gave highest level of respect to Whitebeard (without sickness)
S
When Big Mom speaks of her possible alliance with Elbaf, and what she would be able to do here is what she says
So the general idea here is that :
Bigmom+Elbaf army > Whitebeard > Kaido/Shanks.
She doesn't mention the Marines or WG, many Yonko fans use this as an argument to say the Marines are irrelevant yada yada.
However when BIGMOM allies herself WITH KAIDO here is what their COMMON GOAL is
Suddenly the WORLD GOVERNMENT and MARINES become relevant now that she is allied with KAIDO and plans on taking the ANCIENT WEAPONS.
The reason why she did not bring them up when speaking about her alliance with ELBAF is that even with such power, she would've been UNABLE to do anything against them, despite crushing the other Yonko.
So here we can get a clearer picture of how the balance of power works in a Yonko's mind.
In Kaido/BM's heads : 2 Yonko + 3 Ancient Weapons > World Government > 2 Yonko > Yonko+Elbaf > Whitebeard > Other Yonko.
(Keep in mind that Yonko are arrogant as fuck, so it doesn't confirm 2 Yonko+3 ancient weapons can beat the WG)
In other words the 1 Yonko=Marine+Shichibukai nonsense is debunked by the Yonko themselves, they only consider attacking the WG if they are allied AND have ancient weapons.
With Elbaf power they only consider taking each other out :cheers:
So the general idea here is that :
Bigmom+Elbaf army > Whitebeard > Kaido/Shanks.
She doesn't mention the Marines or WG, many Yonko fans use this as an argument to say the Marines are irrelevant yada yada.
However when BIGMOM allies herself WITH KAIDO here is what their COMMON GOAL is
Suddenly the WORLD GOVERNMENT and MARINES become relevant now that she is allied with KAIDO and plans on taking the ANCIENT WEAPONS.
The reason why she did not bring them up when speaking about her alliance with ELBAF is that even with such power, she would've been UNABLE to do anything against them, despite crushing the other Yonko.
So here we can get a clearer picture of how the balance of power works in a Yonko's mind.
In Kaido/BM's heads : 2 Yonko + 3 Ancient Weapons > World Government > 2 Yonko > Yonko+Elbaf > Whitebeard > Other Yonko.
(Keep in mind that Yonko are arrogant as fuck, so it doesn't confirm 2 Yonko+3 ancient weapons can beat the WG)
In other words the 1 Yonko=Marine+Shichibukai nonsense is debunked by the Yonko themselves, they only consider attacking the WG if they are allied AND have ancient weapons.
With Elbaf power they only consider taking each other out :cheers:
What stupid logic, Dominating the world and conquering the ONE PIECE was their common goal, KAIDO was just passing on information to his subordinates about the arrogance of the government, and the confidence of the navy.
Now SABO + 3 veterans of 200 million is equivalent to 66% of the navy in combat, laugh.
Now SABO + 3 veterans of 200 million is equivalent to 66% of the navy in combat, laugh.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/gorosei-confession-about-shankss-power.15322/
sorry Lee ... I asked more than 10 translators and you can ask yourself from any translator you like
"we won't be able to deal with the Red Hair if he got angry "
暴れる= to act violently, to rage
and 2nd part of your post is as funny as rest of it ... Shanks can't KO Gorosei guards
S
kaido saying they have a weapon that can stop them now implies they couldn't stop them before
• In chapter 907, KAIDO and BM made open contact (an open call), regardless of who was listening, the navy gave itself the privilege of spying on KAIDO and BM's conversation, and interpreted this as an attempt to:
"You are able to stop us ?! ".
This entire thread is not a "debunk" that Marines+Shichibukai=1 Yonko. In fact, all your points are much more easily and more coherently explained by simply saying that Marines+Shichibukai=>1 Yonko.
For example, your Influence part is just saying that the Marines are afraid of the influence of Yonkos, and you attempt to use this logic to somehow debunk that Yonkos are stronger than Admirals. But you do realize that this would still make sense if the Yonkos are just straight up stronger than the Marines, right? In fact, it makes even more sense that way. It makes little to no sense if 1 Yonko is just a tiny piece of power that they can easily get rid of, but just don't for plot convenience reasons that you've been advocating for.
The Resources part is also more easily explained by 1 Yonko=<Marines+Shichibukai. Obviously, resources play a big role. However, the Marines' fears are more easily explained by the idea that they cannot handle more than 1 Yonko. Obviously, they do not want to lose resources, but it makes more sense if the amount of resources they would lose is so much that they would rather not fight any of the Yonko IF Yonkos are around as strong as they are individually.
The Timing stuff you mentioned is the most irrelevant BS I have ever seen. Neither Big Mom nor Kaido acknowledge the Marines as threats. Yet you take statements from Marines themselves saying that two Yonkos combining just happened at the worst possible time and somehow took that to mean that Kaido and Big Mom are afraid of the Marines. It's one thing if they said something like "Thankfully, the Marines are occupied." but they never even imply that. They didn't even read the newspapers that said they abolished the Shichibukai until AFTER Big Mom started going to Wano. So that Timing point is complete and utter BS. What the Marines are saying is that two Yonkos combining is a hard thing to deal with if they can deal with it at all, and on top of that, the Marines have another nuisance in their hands, to take out the Shichibukai, which made the already annoying problem of the Yonkos combining even more annoying.
Your stuff about Kaido somehow saying Yonko=Shichibukai+Marines is just complete nonsense. It's just him saying "The Marines are no longer the strongest individual force of the seas, so each Yonko can take over the WG" or something of the sort.
The part where you state that Yonkos not being together is irrelevant is irrelevant. The fact that they're not united means they're superpowers each on their own. Garp's statement is simply saying the WG is the most powerful of the superpowers, and they established the Shichibukai AND Marines so that it stays as the most powerful superpower. It is saying that the WG is stronger than ANY individual superpower, meaning it is stronger than EACH of the Yonko, not all of them combined. In fact, the fact that they're not together means that no single Yonko wants to fight any other or weaken their forces because it directly leaves them vulnerable to the other two, to the point that they could be wiped out. It's not the WG itself holding balance against all 4 Yonko by itself, it is each Yonko stalemating the others, and the WG being the 5th party in that stalemate. If what you're saying is true and Marines are stronger than all of them combined, the fear of loss of resources from dealing with 1 or 2 Yonko is nowhere near enough fear the WG gives them. We've already seen that Kaido, Big Mom, Whitebeard, and even Shanks are willing to use resources for a good enough cause, or even no good cause at all. Kaido and Big Mom would rather not fight, but they will if they piss each other off. Shanks was willing to fight the Marines if they didn't end the war. Whitebeard literally sacrificed his entire crew for Ace. They don't care about resources as much as you are saying. Even the Marines themselves send forces to take down Shichibukai, and if them never wanting to lose resources was true, they would have just let the Shichibukai, who have helped them for years, just roam around without actually engaging them, especially Mihawk, who is the reason Shanks is a Yonko.
tl:dr your post and points are much more easily explained by saying 1 Yonko is almost equal to, but slightly weaker than Shichibukai+Marines.
For example, your Influence part is just saying that the Marines are afraid of the influence of Yonkos, and you attempt to use this logic to somehow debunk that Yonkos are stronger than Admirals. But you do realize that this would still make sense if the Yonkos are just straight up stronger than the Marines, right? In fact, it makes even more sense that way. It makes little to no sense if 1 Yonko is just a tiny piece of power that they can easily get rid of, but just don't for plot convenience reasons that you've been advocating for.
The Resources part is also more easily explained by 1 Yonko=<Marines+Shichibukai. Obviously, resources play a big role. However, the Marines' fears are more easily explained by the idea that they cannot handle more than 1 Yonko. Obviously, they do not want to lose resources, but it makes more sense if the amount of resources they would lose is so much that they would rather not fight any of the Yonko IF Yonkos are around as strong as they are individually.
The Timing stuff you mentioned is the most irrelevant BS I have ever seen. Neither Big Mom nor Kaido acknowledge the Marines as threats. Yet you take statements from Marines themselves saying that two Yonkos combining just happened at the worst possible time and somehow took that to mean that Kaido and Big Mom are afraid of the Marines. It's one thing if they said something like "Thankfully, the Marines are occupied." but they never even imply that. They didn't even read the newspapers that said they abolished the Shichibukai until AFTER Big Mom started going to Wano. So that Timing point is complete and utter BS. What the Marines are saying is that two Yonkos combining is a hard thing to deal with if they can deal with it at all, and on top of that, the Marines have another nuisance in their hands, to take out the Shichibukai, which made the already annoying problem of the Yonkos combining even more annoying.
Your stuff about Kaido somehow saying Yonko=Shichibukai+Marines is just complete nonsense. It's just him saying "The Marines are no longer the strongest individual force of the seas, so each Yonko can take over the WG" or something of the sort.
The part where you state that Yonkos not being together is irrelevant is irrelevant. The fact that they're not united means they're superpowers each on their own. Garp's statement is simply saying the WG is the most powerful of the superpowers, and they established the Shichibukai AND Marines so that it stays as the most powerful superpower. It is saying that the WG is stronger than ANY individual superpower, meaning it is stronger than EACH of the Yonko, not all of them combined. In fact, the fact that they're not together means that no single Yonko wants to fight any other or weaken their forces because it directly leaves them vulnerable to the other two, to the point that they could be wiped out. It's not the WG itself holding balance against all 4 Yonko by itself, it is each Yonko stalemating the others, and the WG being the 5th party in that stalemate. If what you're saying is true and Marines are stronger than all of them combined, the fear of loss of resources from dealing with 1 or 2 Yonko is nowhere near enough fear the WG gives them. We've already seen that Kaido, Big Mom, Whitebeard, and even Shanks are willing to use resources for a good enough cause, or even no good cause at all. Kaido and Big Mom would rather not fight, but they will if they piss each other off. Shanks was willing to fight the Marines if they didn't end the war. Whitebeard literally sacrificed his entire crew for Ace. They don't care about resources as much as you are saying. Even the Marines themselves send forces to take down Shichibukai, and if them never wanting to lose resources was true, they would have just let the Shichibukai, who have helped them for years, just roam around without actually engaging them, especially Mihawk, who is the reason Shanks is a Yonko.
tl:dr your post and points are much more easily explained by saying 1 Yonko is almost equal to, but slightly weaker than Shichibukai+Marines.
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Whitbeard was insanely nerfed, his body couldn't properly function whiteout live sporting equipment with entire team of doctors taking care of him.
Marians straggling against an enemy who is almost dead, outnumbered by 90 to 1, extremely outgunned and has a disadvantage due to Marians using Ace as a way to not let Whitbeard go all out and destroy the entire island.
Whitbeared doesn't have his three strongest members of his crew:
1. Touch is dead
2. Blackbeard betrayed him
3. Ace has been captured and used in a way to restrain Whitbeard.
Even fack"ng Kaido attacked him before the war.
Marines used derty tricks to defeat Whitbeard and somehow Marians+Shichibukai=4 yonko combined?
There's a big theme in one piece of good guys being stronger than the bad guys, but bad guys win because they use derty tricks, examples are Kaido vs Oden, Whitbread vs Marians, WG vs ancient kingdom.
Marians straggling against an enemy who is almost dead, outnumbered by 90 to 1, extremely outgunned and has a disadvantage due to Marians using Ace as a way to not let Whitbeard go all out and destroy the entire island.
Whitbeared doesn't have his three strongest members of his crew:
1. Touch is dead
2. Blackbeard betrayed him
3. Ace has been captured and used in a way to restrain Whitbeard.
Even fack"ng Kaido attacked him before the war.
Marines used derty tricks to defeat Whitbeard and somehow Marians+Shichibukai=4 yonko combined?
There's a big theme in one piece of good guys being stronger than the bad guys, but bad guys win because they use derty tricks, examples are Kaido vs Oden, Whitbread vs Marians, WG vs ancient kingdom.
I already addressed both of these.
The Marines+Shichibukai balance the Yonko in the sense that they're stronger than EACH individual Yonko, not all 4 of them combined. They got the Marines AND Shichibukai there to create the 5 way stalemate. Each of the Emperors stop the others, and the WG is the strongest of them that stalemates each of the others as well, but on a slightly larger scale. The fact that Yonkos balance and stop each other out is proof that this Marine+Shichibukai=all Yonko combined thing never existed, because they don't need to be that strong, as the Yonkos are already stopping each other. The WG just has to be stronger than each of them individually to be the strongest.
The Marines reign supreme above EACH of the Emperors, not all of them combined. There are countless times mentioned that someone could overthrow the government, someone could defeat the Marines, even Sengoku mentions that the Marines may be wiped out by Whitebeard, and they never state that all 4 Emperors need to be together to do it. In fact, it is always implied that 1 Emperor alone may be able to do it.
The Marines+Shichibukai balance the Yonko in the sense that they're stronger than EACH individual Yonko, not all 4 of them combined. They got the Marines AND Shichibukai there to create the 5 way stalemate. Each of the Emperors stop the others, and the WG is the strongest of them that stalemates each of the others as well, but on a slightly larger scale. The fact that Yonkos balance and stop each other out is proof that this Marine+Shichibukai=all Yonko combined thing never existed, because they don't need to be that strong, as the Yonkos are already stopping each other. The WG just has to be stronger than each of them individually to be the strongest.
The Marines reign supreme above EACH of the Emperors, not all of them combined. There are countless times mentioned that someone could overthrow the government, someone could defeat the Marines, even Sengoku mentions that the Marines may be wiped out by Whitebeard, and they never state that all 4 Emperors need to be together to do it. In fact, it is always implied that 1 Emperor alone may be able to do it.
Not once in the series has there been any mention of a 5 way stalemate. It's called the THREE great powers. Tens of thousands of Marines are lumped together as a single power, 7 uncooperative warlords are lumped together as a single power, but the Emperors are different and the statements irrelevant cause you said so?
Not really. Doflamingo was just assessing which force will emerge victorious between Emperors, Worstgen, Marines, Revos and Shichibukai. So it wasn't an absolute statement. Hence Doffy asked, "who will rule the sea?", will it be A, B, but then there is C that reigns supreme, on the other hand there is D too".
The WG as a whole with the SSG on top is another story.
The WG as a whole with the SSG on top is another story.
It IS a 5-way stalemate. The THREE great powers are there for that stalemate. You act as if the Marines are stalemating the Yonko, when it is in fact, the Yonko that are stalemating each other, with the WG acting as a 5th force there to make sure that the situation doesn't get too out of hand that they lose their superpower status to any of them.
If the WG was as strong as you are saying they are, then why can they never stop the Yonko when they do ANYTHING short of destroying Marineford? Most of the time, the Yonko just get what they want. Buggy even says that the Marines are stupid for challenging Whitebeard. The people of the world are surprised that Akainu was able to put the new Marineford in the New World, the Yonko territory. The Gorosei themselves CONFIRM they cannot handle Shanks. None of this is definitive proof that Yonko>>WG, but doesn't it just imply that?
And if it is indeed just the Shichibukai+Marines stalemating the Yonkos, why don't they just take over the world? It is mentioned multiple times of a Great Cleansing that will occur by the Gorosei, indicating that they have military power to control the world by themselves. You can't argue that the Yonko somehow help them, because they don't need the help.
I challenge you to give me a SINGLE piece of evidence that it is not a 5 way stalemate that cannot be more easily explained as a 5 way stalemate.
If the WG was as strong as you are saying they are, then why can they never stop the Yonko when they do ANYTHING short of destroying Marineford? Most of the time, the Yonko just get what they want. Buggy even says that the Marines are stupid for challenging Whitebeard. The people of the world are surprised that Akainu was able to put the new Marineford in the New World, the Yonko territory. The Gorosei themselves CONFIRM they cannot handle Shanks. None of this is definitive proof that Yonko>>WG, but doesn't it just imply that?
And if it is indeed just the Shichibukai+Marines stalemating the Yonkos, why don't they just take over the world? It is mentioned multiple times of a Great Cleansing that will occur by the Gorosei, indicating that they have military power to control the world by themselves. You can't argue that the Yonko somehow help them, because they don't need the help.
I challenge you to give me a SINGLE piece of evidence that it is not a 5 way stalemate that cannot be more easily explained as a 5 way stalemate.
I was just bringing in irrelevant things to a conversation, just like how you've been mentioning the number 3.
You KNOW the context behind the number 3, yet you still continue to spout your nonsense. You must be extremely afraid of me, huh? Don't want to actually engage in a discussion because you know you'll lose. This constant ignoring of points I have made and out of context talking points is proof of that.
You KNOW the context behind the number 3, yet you still continue to spout your nonsense. You must be extremely afraid of me, huh? Don't want to actually engage in a discussion because you know you'll lose. This constant ignoring of points I have made and out of context talking points is proof of that.