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Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
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i find myself repeatedly losing games due to the actions of indies one player makes my team lose the whole damn game , like i said a pattern has formed and that pattern formed for a reason, i simply took notice of it.
When the actions of one indie player makes my team lose repeatedly they become more dangerous than any scum and should be put down.
How come one indie caused whole team to lose game? Can you elaborate?
 

Peroroncino

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Can you name a single instance where the sole reason your team lost was because of an Indie?
Star wars? DAL game? even in this game indies kept appearing one after another which sucked since we didnt have a factional kill so reduce numbers was difficult.
 

Peroroncino

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How come one indie caused whole team to lose game? Can you elaborate?
read the last day of the Star wars game,ekko and pein were scum and they negotiated with fuji who was indie to win the game by making him think he was gonna win too which turned out to be a lie,they won but he did not.
Town completely gave up on the game and didnt even submit actions cause we knew he was gonna take the deal because it's what he did in the game prior where he won by removing town's main character from the game.
 

Ratchet

The End and the Beginning
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Really? You're going to tell me the sole reason the Town lost Star Wars was because of Fuji siding with Scum at the end? Not Lord Melkor playing like an extra Scum member for inexplicable reasons? Not Ultra sitting on information that exposed the Godfather from Day 3? Not the Town voting to give Scum a free double action "because it's funny"? The Town was horrendous in that game. To claim the sole reason they lost was because of Fuji is simply delusional.
Misfires, modkills, mislynches - all worked against the Town that game;. Again, hardly the sole reason.
even in this game indies kept appearing one after another which sucked since we didnt have a factional kill so reduce numbers was difficult.
And are you going to take credit away from the likes of Reborn who played well and had very accurate scum reads all game? Scum lost this game because Town played well.
 
Well Indies are not Town so they are never obligated to play for Townie win. If they can chose their wincon they simply are allowed to play as they wishes to play or enjoy playing. Nothing wrong with that.

This shouldn't be used to hamper down Indie claims in future. Flowa for eg despite being announced as hostile Indie played to make everyone win. So depend on person to person but totally on you alone if player betrays your expectations. An Indie definitely will at the end of day only and always play for his/her wincon.

This game townies over trust in Ekko is what put Town in difficult position in the end not Ekko.
 

Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
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read the last day of the Star wars game,ekko and pein were scum and they negotiated with fuji who was indie to win the game by making him think he was gonna win too which turned out to be a lie,they won but he did not.
Town completely gave up on the game and didnt even submit actions cause we knew he was gonna take the deal because it's what he did in the game prior where he won by removing town's main character from the game.
I think you never roled as indie right?


Being an indie isn't easy. They have to survive to win either pro town or anti town unless there are specific conditions to wincon.


For them to survive they have to blend with town and help them catch Mafia.

A hostile indie has to eliminate town so they will lie and deceit. And, that's how they are suppose to play as their wincon is to eliminate town and even scums

A pro town indie will never collaborate with scums from the beginning. They will always play for town because their wincon is associated with town

A neutral indie will also play for town at the beginning and will try to win the game along with town. But if at the later stages of the game he will think that scums have better chances to win then he can side with the scums.

They are neutral but that doesn't mean they will stay neutral all the game. They have to pick side which will give them highest chance of survival.

Fuji was neutral indie and him going with scums happened at later stage and he did what was best for his wincon.
 

Peroroncino

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Well Indies are not Town so they are never obligated to play for Townie win. If they can chose their wincon they simply are allowed to play as they wishes to play or enjoy playing. Nothing wrong with that.

This shouldn't be used to hamper down Indie claims in future. Flowa for eg despite being announced as hostile Indie played to make everyone win. So depend on person to person but totally on you alone if player betrays your expectations. An Indie definitely will at the end of day only and always play for his/her wincon.

This game townies over trust in Ekko is what put Town in difficult position in the end not Ekko.
oh i agree they can play as they want i would do the same too.
My point is they have no right to complain when they get killed however, i certainly wouldn't.
If it's not part of my team they're getting shot.
 

Peroroncino

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Really? You're going to tell me the sole reason the Town lost Star Wars was because of Fuji siding with Scum at the end? Not Lord Melkor playing like an extra Scum member for inexplicable reasons? Not Ultra sitting on information that exposed the Godfather from Day 3? Not the Town voting to give Scum a free double action "because it's funny"? The Town was horrendous in that game. To claim the sole reason they lost was because of Fuji is simply delusional.
Misfires, modkills, mislynches - all worked against the Town that game;. Again, hardly the sole reason.
And are you going to take credit away from the likes of Reborn who played well and had very accurate scum reads all game? Scum lost this game because Town played well.
Melkor is always scummy no matter what,that's how he plays even in this game where he had a perfect fake people still suspected him,when i told fuji he was doom in dead chat he couldnt even believe it.
Besides town wasn't using abilities against him in the SW game, we were getting all our lynches right.
Then scum manipulated an indie into voting for lanji who was town and we lost.
 
Really? You're going to tell me the sole reason the Town lost Star Wars was because of Fuji siding with Scum at the end? Not Lord Melkor playing like an extra Scum member for inexplicable reasons? Not Ultra sitting on information that exposed the Godfather from Day 3? Not the Town voting to give Scum a free double action "because it's funny"? The Town was horrendous in that game. To claim the sole reason they lost was because of Fuji is simply delusional.
Misfires, modkills, mislynches - all worked against the Town that game;. Again, hardly the sole reason.
And are you going to take credit away from the likes of Reborn who played well and had very accurate scum reads all game? Scum lost this game because Town played well.
@Ratchet i do not want to get into lenghty discussions with you about this and I appreciate you and your Mafia skills but i do not think you should criticise so much my performance this game (where i think my only big mistake was that mislynch on Ultra) while you got yourself modkilled at the crucial moment. And this was not needed because i caught up that Ekko was lying about you being final mafia member.

But town as said by Drago could still win by sending right actions the final night which they did not (i was out of abilities though).
 
oh i agree they can play as they want i would do the same too.
My point is they have no right to complain when they get killed however, i certainly wouldn't.
If it's not part of my team they're getting shot.
Yes agree. Indie has two choices try to blend in perfectly as Town or downright claim Indie start of the game. It is a risky gamble to come out open and a good player knows the risk. He'd know he'd be a priority target if things get tough for town or Town gets paranoid. He/She won't get mad over this.

But a new player might have unfair expectations of Town. Tbh Town also got no obligation to let an Indie thrive when they are unsure of his slot and risk losing the game. Better safe than sorry moto.
 
Tris in Misty ToS game claimed Survivor and stayed alive to the very end without major suspicions. She was Mafia scum.

Town lost the game for a number of reasons but claiming Survivor outright is also a good tactics by many.

Let's put it this way, Town occasionally shoot players that claim hard Townies so why is shooting an Indie worst than that? It is not.
 

Ratchet

The End and the Beginning
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Melkor is always scummy no matter what,that's how he plays even in this game where he had a perfect fake people still suspected him,when i told fuji he was doom in dead chat he couldnt even believe it.
Besides town wasn't using abilities against him in the SW game, we were getting all our lynches right.
Then scum manipulated an indie into voting for lanji who was town and we lost.
Town had several awful mistakes that you're neglecting to mention, mistakes that the Mafia used to win the game. If you're going to tell me that the only reason that was a loss was because of Fuji, then we're simply not talking about the same thing here.
@Ratchet i do not want to get into lenghty discussions with you about this and I appreciate you and your Mafia skills but i do not think you should criticise so much my performance this game (where i think my only big mistake was that mislynch on Ultra) while you got yourself modkilled at the crucial moment. And this was not needed because i caught up that Ekko was lying about you being final mafia member.

But town as said by Drago could still win by sending right actions the final night which they did not (i was out of abilities though).
My modkill didn't really affect the numbers at all, because two kills went through via the Mafia anyway. And that was with the lynch on Lanji being botched. You're simply deflecting the blame here - had you thought for one minute about your vote and the facts in front of you, the outcome is likely very different. By the time Day 5 even began, the game was effectively over. Obviously, I should have conducted myself better, that goes without saying, but in no way was it the crucial tipping point you like to pretend it was.
 
This shouldn't be used to hamper down Indie claims in future. Flowa for eg despite being announced as hostile Indie played to make everyone win.
I mean, this is just my MO. Though not everyone does this. And sth like this is only possible in games in which the host gives you a choice. If I have a choice, I choose the happiest way. But if I don't have a choice I play against Town, too, if I have to (eg Kanjuro in the Wano game. I tried Town siding since I only needed a few Townies gone, but the scum team forced me to side with them by taking down the targets I didn't need gone to force me to vote with them. But that was more like smart play on their part, nothing I could do about this).
 

Peroroncino

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Town had several awful mistakes that you're neglecting to mention, mistakes that the Mafia used to win the game. If you're going to tell me that the only reason that was a loss was because of Fuji, then we're simply not talking about the same thing here.
My modkill didn't really affect the numbers at all, because two kills went through via the Mafia anyway. And that was with the lynch on Lanji being botched. You're simply deflecting the blame here - had you thought for one minute about your vote and the facts in front of you, the outcome is likely very different. By the time Day 5 even began, the game was effectively over. Obviously, I should have conducted myself better, that goes without saying, but in no way was it the crucial tipping point you like to pretend it was.
no one is saying we didnt make mistakes but we would've won the game if not for the one indie that was there
 

Ratchet

The End and the Beginning
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no one is saying we didnt make mistakes but we would've won the game if not for the one indie that was there
I mean, no, we can't say that for sure, most of the players were pretty inept at that point. But if you go back to the original point, I explicitly asked you to give me examples of games where an Indie betraying the Town was the sole reason the town lost, and you pointed out Star Wars Mafia. As we can see, it wasn't the sole reason at all, which is exactly my point.
 

Peroroncino

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I mean, no, we can't say that for sure, most of the players were pretty inept at that point. But if you go back to the original point, I explicitly asked you to give me examples of games where an Indie betraying the Town was the sole reason the town lost, and you pointed out Star Wars Mafia. As we can see, it wasn't the sole reason at all, which is exactly my point.
actually we can, drago told me that, he put the bounty on a townie allowing to get a kill when they didnt have kills left also the vote on lanji
 

Ratchet

The End and the Beginning
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actually we can, drago told me that, he put the bounty on a townie allowing to get a kill when they didnt have kills left also the vote on lanji
He had the bounty on a townie anyway, beginning D5. His actions afterwards changed nothing. The moment Day 5 began with 5/3/1, the Mafia virtually won, and just needed the right actions to go their way.
 
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