Fanclub Islam Group

#61
Here is another Hadith
Aisha reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said:

إِنَّ مِنْ أَكْمَلِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ إِيمَانًا أَحْسَنُهُمْ خُلُقًا وَأَلْطَفُهُمْ بِأَهْلِهِ
Verily, the most complete of believers in faith are those with the best character and who are most kind to their families.
Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 2612, Grade: Sahih
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
#63
Birds and animals in general have no free will. They act on instincts. They will not be reward nor punished.

We are sure about it because we have many proofs. Not only that....but look around yourself. You seriously believe this world poofed outta nowhere. How amazingly this world is created....you believe it had no creator ?
If religions are a scam, no reward or punishment for anyone.
There are no proofs for anything, that's why every religion thrives. If one had proof, it would debunk all the others.
Just because we have no answers for things we dont have to make stuff up and attribute it to imaginary divine beings...
If you believe that a creator made it all, which creator was it? Odin, Ra, Zeus, Jewish god, Jesus, Allah? They couldnt all have done it. Which one of them is wrong, who is lying about it? Could it be, they are all lying?

Firstly....all kinds of Gods doesnt apply to us. We dont believe in all kinds of Gods. Since those made up Gods would have attributes that are not of the One God....Allah ( SWT). People creating a God, worshipping them and causing atrocities in their name....is something we also condemn. As we are not allowed to associate partners with God.

So the Quran, Islam and its way of life is all something a 5 year old wpuld believe ? Yet it harbours nearly 2 billion believers ? Alright....
Again I do agree that God has been used for to carry out many attrocities. But again you firstly mistake all fictional Gods and compare them to the real one. And you also group all people who believe in the true God.
Yes ISIS believe in Allah....and they commit attrocites in Allah's name. However Islam as a whole....condemns them just as much.
Doesnt apply to us... lol First step is to realize that you heard the story when you were too young to think straight and to question anything. Others dont believe in other gods too so your group aint no different than the other. You were taught not to believe in others, it is your job to to decide what you will believe into because the choice of religion is determined by pure chance where in the world one will be born into. To other religions Allah is also made up... Whether people condemn it or not is not the point, people of all religions have killed in the name of god, not a single one is an exception to it.

Yes, religion is taught to young children, good soldiers are recruited when they are very young because at those ages they cannot think straight, they cannot decide for themselves what is right or wrong. It is not a coincidence. 2 billion believers somehow changes the fact that each religion started as a sect formed by a couple of people? What did Islamic people believe in 2000 years ago? Religion is 1600 years old afaik, so what did they believe in before that? Nothing? Because there was no story for little children?

Who says that some gods are fictional while the others are real? Who can possibly know, lol? Every god is the true god, to his believers...
Why do you think religions are even true? Have you even entertained the idea that all of them might be wrong? Could it be that we have been lied to for thousands of years just to have a piece of mind?

So Murder is Ok since morality is subjective this is why I said there is no Objective source for morality other than God because if Morality is Subjective things like murder and rape aren’t objectively wrong.
Humans have murdered for thousands of years and it was ok. We have come a far way from those times and realized that it is better to live with structure and rules than to constantly play battle royale... That's why came to agreement that murder is not ok, to scare people into not doing it because life is simply better that way.

Where is the objective morality coming into play? In the supposed afterlife? It certainly not coming into play in our lifes since we all decide it based on our own experiences and circumstances which differ from individual to individual. Murder and rape are wrong because we decided it is a better life where those two are wrong, not so long ago we were doing both of them on daily basis...
 
#64
If religions are a scam, no reward or punishment for anyone.
There are no proofs for anything, that's why every religion thrives. If one had proof, it would debunk all the others.
Just because we have no answers for things we dont have to make stuff up and attribute it to imaginary divine beings...
If you believe that a creator made it all, which creator was it? Odin, Ra, Zeus, Jewish god, Jesus, Allah? They couldnt all have done it. Which one of them is wrong, who is lying about it? Could it be, they are all lying?


Doesnt apply to us... lol First step is to realize that you heard the story when you were too young to think straight and to question anything. Others dont believe in other gods too so your group aint no different than the other. You were taught not to believe in others, it is your job to to decide what you will believe into because the choice of religion is determined by pure chance where in the world one will be born into. To other religions Allah is also made up... Whether people condemn it or not is not the point, people of all religions have killed in the name of god, not a single one is an exception to it.

Yes, religion is taught to young children, good soldiers are recruited when they are very young because at those ages they cannot think straight, they cannot decide for themselves what is right or wrong. It is not a coincidence. 2 billion believers somehow changes the fact that each religion started as a sect formed by a couple of people? What did Islamic people believe in 2000 years ago? Religion is 1600 years old afaik, so what did they believe in before that? Nothing? Because there was no story for little children?

Who says that some gods are fictional while the others are real? Who can possibly know, lol? Every god is the true god, to his believers...
Why do you think religions are even true? Have you even entertained the idea that all of them might be wrong? Could it be that we have been lied to for thousands of years just to have a piece of mind?


Humans have murdered for thousands of years and it was ok. We have come a far way from those times and realized that it is better to live with structure and rules than to constantly play battle royale... That's why came to agreement that murder is not ok, to scare people into not doing it because life is simply better that way.

Where is the objective morality coming into play? In the supposed afterlife? It certainly not coming into play in our lifes since we all decide it based on our own experiences and circumstances which differ from individual to individual. Murder and rape are wrong because we decided it is a better life where those two are wrong, not so long ago we were doing both of them on daily basis...
So your morality is based on the whims of fallible humans and your moral code changes depending on circumstance? If this true then you can there fore have no moral claims over religion therefore any moral claim you bring up to discredit religion is null.
Now that all and any moral claims against religion you might have are dismissed I can move on to your main argument that religion is just a coping mechanism and God doesn’t exist. If God doesn’t exist how did the Universe come to be because something can’t emerge from nothing.
 
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#66
If religions are a scam, no reward or punishment for anyone.
There are no proofs for anything, that's why every religion thrives. If one had proof, it would debunk all the others.
Just because we have no answers for things we dont have to make stuff up and attribute it to imaginary divine beings...
If you believe that a creator made it all, which creator was it? Odin, Ra, Zeus, Jewish god, Jesus, Allah? They couldnt all have done it. Which one of them is wrong, who is lying about it? Could it be, they are all lying?
And how would that be fair ? Logically speaking all human beings would be better off destroying each for success. The reward and punishments from Allah make sure such things dont happen. Allah didnt magically appear when Islam came. Allah has been here since the dawn of time....for many prophets which came to many different areas.

Again you have no answers.... Not us

Which God has survived in belief the most ? Allah literally means the One God. Jewish, Christians and Muslims all believe in the same God at the end of the day. And which 3 are the biggest religions ? Does anyone still believe in Zeus ? No....

Doesnt apply to us... lol First step is to realize that you heard the story when you were too young to think straight and to question anything. Others dont believe in other gods too so your group aint no different than the other. You were taught not to believe in others, it is your job to to decide what you will believe into because the choice of religion is determined by pure chance where in the world one will be born into. To other religions Allah is also made up... Whether people condemn it or not is not the point, people of all religions have killed in the name of god, not a single one is an exception to it.

Yes, religion is taught to young children, good soldiers are recruited when they are very young because at those ages they cannot think straight, they cannot decide for themselves what is right or wrong. It is not a coincidence. 2 billion believers somehow changes the fact that each religion started as a sect formed by a couple of people? What did Islamic people believe in 2000 years ago? Religion is 1600 years old afaik, so what did they believe in before that? Nothing? Because there was no story for little children?

Who says that some gods are fictional while the others are real? Who can possibly know, lol? Every god is the true god, to his believers...
Why do you think religions are even true? Have you even entertained the idea that all of them might be wrong? Could it be that we have been lied to for thousands of years just to have a piece of mind?


Humans have murdered for thousands of years and it was ok. We have come a far way from those times and realized that it is better to live with structure and rules than to constantly play battle royale... That's why came to agreement that murder is not ok, to scare people into not doing it because life is simply better that way.

Where is the objective morality coming into play? In the supposed afterlife? It certainly not coming into play in our lifes since we all decide it based on our own experiences and circumstances which differ from individual to individual. Murder and rape are wrong because we decided it is a better life where those two are wrong, not so long ago we were doing both of them on daily basis...
Then why havent I left ? I believed in Santa when I was a kid ? Why dont I see the same about God ? Why do people convert/revert to Islam....if its a fairy tale for children ? Clearly there are some with the capacity to believe and some that dont have such thing...

Where are their proofs...we have ours.

We have the Quran....

We have Hadiths

And Sunnahs

We have predictions of the Prophets...which are all coming true....



Other religions get followers due to how they make people feel. Islam is a religion of proof.
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Why make things controversial by making a religious thread lol
Its a thread for Muslims. I did ask for no hate, so I can report. But debating Nik is interesting.
 
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#68
Now that I think I have convinced Nik of God he might cling on to the Idea of Deism, The belief that the universe created be a supreme being but he doesn’t interfere in our activities. Not trying to offend any deists but why would god create us if without reason and if he did then that must mean that he can not communicate with us which a contradiction and an affront to God
Now when discussing Polytheistic religion like most Religions outside of Abrahamic ones, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. We have to consider the fact that most if not all of these religions speak of Gods with Human emotions so if so then a war Among the Gods (Nauzubillah) should happen and as such would destroy the Universe and if it doesn’t then what are these Gods.
Not trying to be Offensive just my personal opinion on why I don’t believe these
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Now for Christian and Judaism my disbelief in these is do to theological issues (ie; The Trinity in Christianity)
 
#72
I think what would make debates/discussions easier is for non-Muslims to ask Muslims the hardest questions, the most important questions. The goal from this is not to convince the other side. The goal is to let others know that we believe that things went that way.

Now this saying about teaching kids religion and they won't think straight. I at certain point of my life questioned and wondered about a lot of things, but I reached a point of understanding. The holy book, Quran is full of miracles. I'm not saying this out of faith/belief. I'm saying this out of understanding the messages. I read.
 
#73
I found this and shows why Prophet Muhammad wouldnt be a liar.

Reason 1: He himself was unlettered. He could not sign his name either; how could he make it up?

Reason 2: Quran mentions some of his slight mistakes and encourages him to ask forgiveness from Allah. Would an egoistic, proud man make it up?

Reason 3: His companions witnessed unusual changes in his body (he used to become indescribably heavy , he would sweat in cold, shiver in hot weathers) which do not occur normally in a human being when the revelation took place.

Reason 4: He didn't ask for money for these revelations.

Reason 5: He asked people to worship Allah and not himself. Had he been the writer, he would have created words that are pro worshiping him.

Reason 6: He was renowned as the Trustworthy and Truthful, that everyone believed that he would which he said. Infidels entrusted him their properties even though they abhorred and disbelieved in him, just due to his matchless honesty.

Reason 7: Starting from Adam AS, all Prophets and Messengers have been preaching that there will be a such Prophet, who will close the door of prophethood till The Day of Resurrection. Like Jesus AS predicted:6. And (remember) when 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah unto you confirming the Taurat [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed . But when he (Ahmed i.e. Muhammad) but when he came to them with clear proofs, they said: “This is plain magic". (Al-Saff)

Reason 8: The Quran has divine, poetic beauty that no human can ever achieve.If you ponder over the realities, you will understand the authenticity of Quran. My biggest advice: Read Quran yourself
I mean at the end of day.....everything in Islam is beneficial for the human and society. We worship Allah, not because Allah needs it. But so we can constantly remember him....so we dont do bad to others or ourselfs. We constantly send blessing and love our Prophet....so we can learn to love him....and thus follow the Sunnah ( His way of living).

How can Islam be human made when humans are so self absorbed and selfish. Why would people believe in in Muhammad.....if he made it all up. Its not possible to decieve all these many people. Many people asked for many proofs and he provided for them. Asked him many questions and he answered them.

Theres literal answer to any of this....other than its the truth.
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i just want to learn more about islam, doing a daily prayer 5 times in a day wasn't enough if you lacking a knowledge.
Me too man....
 
#74
i just want to learn more about islam, doing a daily prayer 5 times in a day wasn't enough if you lacking a knowledge.
I recommend learning from an Imam or Mufti if you want to learn more. Don’t just read Sanji Bukhari and other books alone with no help from a scholar because The most important Knowledge is religious knowledge
I found this and shows why Prophet Muhammad wouldnt be a liar.



I mean at the end of day.....everything in Islam is beneficial for the human and society. We worship Allah, not because Allah needs it. But so we can constantly remember him....so we dont do bad to others or ourselfs. We constantly send blessing and love our Prophet....so we can learn to love him....and thus follow the Sunnah ( His way of living).

How can Islam be human made when humans are so self absorbed and selfish. Why would people believe in in Muhammad.....if he made it all up. Its not possible to decieve all these many people. Many people asked for many proofs and he provided for them. Asked him many questions and he answered them.

Theres literal answer to any of this....other than its the truth.

Me too man....
وَقُل جاءَ الحَقُّ وَزَهَقَ الباطِلُ ۚ إِنَّ الباطِلَ كانَ زَهوقًا
And say, ‘The truth has come, and falsehood has vanished. Indeed falsehood is bound to vanish.’
Quran 17:81
 
#75
The Prophet Muhammad is undoubtly the most sucessful man in the world. How can an illiterate man who didnt seek such lvls of success for himself be able to achieve this. There obviously was a higher power helping him and educating him.

How can he be a liar and be evil....when he was known in society as the Truthful. A man who would give any materialistic belong to anyone who asked. A person so selfless..... definetly values the hereafter more than this world.

Hes honestly amazing. And its sad whats going on in France.
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
#79
So your morality is based on the whims of fallible humans and your moral code changes depending on circumstance? If this true then you can there fore have no moral claims over religion therefore any moral claim you bring up to discredit religion is null.
Yes, my morality is based on my own experiences and based on what I think is right or wrong - kind of a general rule that could be enforced to everyone. If it doesnt work for everyone, then it's likely not a good moral principle.
Yes, it changes based on circumstances, ridiculous to even question it. If someone broke into your house to kill you and your family, you would certainly think it is ok to murder them.
Why cant I have claims to question religions? Just because my moral principles differ, my claims are disqualified? What logic is that?
In a pool of religions out there, I seriously dont know why every single one of them think they are the chosen one. To feel better?

And how would that be fair ? Logically speaking all human beings would be better off destroying each for success. The reward and punishments from Allah make sure such things dont happen. Allah didnt magically appear when Islam came. Allah has been here since the dawn of time....for many prophets which came to many different areas.

Not really. Allah split the sea and people still worshipped a cow instead. People are stupid.
Again you have no answers.... Not us
Which God has survived in belief the most ? Allah literally means the One God. Jewish, Christians and Muslims all believe in the same God at the end of the day. And which 3 are the biggest religions ? Does anyone still believe in Zeus ? No....
Who says that anything has to be fair? Life is pretty unfair in case you didnt realize. Do you hope for fairness in the afterlife because it is unattainable in current life? How would we be better off destroying each other for success? Mayhem and chaos are better than control?
Speaking of control, that's another major use of things called religions. It brings structure even if it is a made-up story. Who benefits the most from people being under control?

Yes, Allah was there since dawn of time, according to Islam, so was Jesus according to Christians, so was Jewish god according to Jewish people, you catch my drift... Where is the proof that Allah split the sea? Some text is written by humans hundreds of years ago? You call that proof?
If I believed in a religion I would have answers too and a high chance would be that I would think that your answers are wrong... As I said, humans had no answers for many things and instead of admitting that they dont know, they said it is "god's work". People with big egos have trouble admitting that they dont know things so they would rather make stuff up...

Do you know why the current gods have survived the most? Because those stories are more believable to civilized humans.
If you were in war 5000 years ago, who would you like to have on your side, the guy who shoots lightning or the guy who splits sea?
Who believed in Jewish, Cristian and Islam god 3000 years ago? Nobody? What a coincidence, the same as today nobody believes in Zeus.

Then why havent I left ? I believe in Santa when I was a kid ? Why dont I see the same about God ? Why do people convert/revert to Islam....if its a fairy tale for children ? Clearly there are some with the capacity to believe and that dont have such thing...

Where are their proofs...we have ours.
We have the Quran....
We have Hadiths

And Sunnahs
We have predictions of the Prophets...which are all coming true....
Other religions get followers due to how they make people feel. Islam is a religion of proof.
Was santa said to judge you when you die? You havent left because deep down you fear the story could be true?
Or maybe because it gives you a piece of mind, for some people it is easier to believe in something than into nothing. It gives them structure, guidance...

Why do Islamic people abandon Islam and convert to other religions? Some believe in those stories, some dont, same with every religion. You have proof? Every religion has them apparently and neither is a proof to me. Things which happened around 2000 years ago having proofs..hard to believe in proofs from 2k years ago when we can barely believe in proof of things happening right now...

If any religion had actual proof, everyone would be converting to it but they dont because there is no definitive proof for anything except stories made up thousands of years ago.

Now that I think I have convinced Nik of God he might cling on to the Idea of Deism, The belief that the universe created be a supreme being but he doesn’t interfere in our activities.
Whether everything is created by a divine being or not, nobody can possibly know.
One thing is sure, neither of present-day religions nor their concepts existed 3000 years ago and let alone back then when things were created, if there is even a starting point.
 
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