Character Discussion "Kaido, the strongest pirate" - how valid are characters statements?
He does have the highest bounty, suggesting great skill at piracy. That’s a great point 
Edit: not to mention how he escaped imprisonment 18 times.
Edit: not to mention how he escaped imprisonment 18 times.
"Every Shichibukai is a pirate", except for when they're Shichibukai.
There is a reason why Smoker says, " A Pirate will always be a pirate". Because.. TECHNICALLY Warlords are not pirates, but World Government employees, just like the CP1-9/Marines/Agents/etc
However, for Smoker's personal belief once a pirate they'll still continue to act like their pirate ways. Smoker wouldn't say this if Warlords were considered pirates while they're Warlords.
Was Doflamingo a pirate? Yes
Was Doflamingo a pirate as a Warlord? No
Was Hancock a pirate? yes
Was she a pirate as a Warlord? No
Is she a pirate now? Yes
Was Buggy a pirate? Yes
Was Buggy a pirate as a Warlord? No
Is he a pirate now? Yes
There is a reason why Smoker says, " A Pirate will always be a pirate". Because.. TECHNICALLY Warlords are not pirates, but World Government employees, just like the CP1-9/Marines/Agents/etc
However, for Smoker's personal belief once a pirate they'll still continue to act like their pirate ways. Smoker wouldn't say this if Warlords were considered pirates while they're Warlords.
Was Doflamingo a pirate? Yes
Was Doflamingo a pirate as a Warlord? No
Was Hancock a pirate? yes
Was she a pirate as a Warlord? No
Is she a pirate now? Yes
Was Buggy a pirate? Yes
Was Buggy a pirate as a Warlord? No
Is he a pirate now? Yes
They are employees of the World Government because they have their piracy sanctioned in order to benefit the institution with it. I shall insist, the Government sanctions the PIRACY that they still perform since they are pirates.
If Smoker (among many others) says that "a pirate is always a pirate" then the most reasonable reading of it is that, first of all, the Shichibukai are indeed still pirates, and second, that belonging to a "rightful" institution doesn't make their actions more laudable. In other words, at the end of the day they are pirates and their "public service" won't change their criminal nature.
The Shichibukais are explicitly referred as pirates and their deal with the Government is also described as sanctioning their piracy in exchange for having part of its benefits. Therefore, they're still pirates that simply sold their full freedom in order to roam safely.
On top of that, you have many characters addressing them as pirates (Smoker, Kizaru, a guy informing the Elders...), active Shichibukai being treated as pirates in their introduction boxes (Crocodile is stated to be "a pirate of the Shichibukai", Law is addressed as "Shichibukai acting under the Government's order: the pirate Trafalgar Law), active Shichibukai with a pirate title ("Pirate Empress Boa Hancock") and active Shichibukai referring to themselves as pirates (Crocodile told Luffy that they are two different kinds of pirates).
In my opinion, your whole argumentation requires ignoring explicit words used in the very description of the system and, on top of that, assuming that your point of view is right to begin with (because it's what supports the scenario in which working for the Government changes your condition of pirate). The amount of times the Shichibukai have been referred as pirates by marines, introduction boxes and the warlords themselves is huge.
Therefore, they are pirates whether under the orders of the Government or not.
I've covered that part in the reply to Zara. That's why I quoted both of you at the same time.
In the end the discussion might have veered off in the wrong direction. I have no problem with Kaido being the strongest pirate, of course as long as we agree to the other strongest being the strongest. Yet, most of the dudes backing Killer's words now vehemently oppose and disagree with the others being the strongest. Zeff's words, Zoro's words, manga, vivre cards, databooks, carry no weight for them, but Killer's, might I mention the same Killer they used to call retarded a few chapters ago, is absolute.
At the end of the day, if Oda wants to make Kaido the strongest there isn't much I, or anyone else can do to be honest.
In the end the discussion might have veered off in the wrong direction. I have no problem with Kaido being the strongest pirate, of course as long as we agree to the other strongest being the strongest. Yet, most of the dudes backing Killer's words now vehemently oppose and disagree with the others being the strongest. Zeff's words, Zoro's words, manga, vivre cards, databooks, carry no weight for them, but Killer's, might I mention the same Killer they used to call retarded a few chapters ago, is absolute.
At the end of the day, if Oda wants to make Kaido the strongest there isn't much I, or anyone else can do to be honest.
Killer and Kid met and fought against Shanks, Meme and Kaido. Leaving one last emperor that they have never met yet to determine his exact powerlevel, said emperor also was lying low for a while like this cat
This same Killer who hates Kaido's guts calls him the strongest.
The title of the chapter is ''Island of the strongest''.
BB will get stronger and get his shine tho, after all he will always get the last laugh Zehahahahahha.
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Yes, punch kaido in the dick and he dies.
Z
Having a serious debate on mobile is a pain lol so forgive the lower quality reply
1) You say Whitebeard never struggled to use haki, but that’s not true. We saw Whitebeard struggling to CoO, the image of Whitebeard removing the IV when Marco is thinking about how Squardo stabbed Whitebeard means the IV removal weakened his haki. We also saw a clean slash on Kizaru that didn’t get past his intangibility. And why would Whitebeard not attempt to use a CotC blast to clear out fodder if he could? Was he not splitting the sky with Shanks a few weeks ago?
2) As for why I’m believing Killer’s words, along with the chapter of the title, because nothing has been shown to contradict it. If you give me something to show that anyone currently alive could be stronger than Kaido, then I’ll disagree with his words. I’m not going to doubt what Killer says based on Whitebeard. I need an L that Kaido suffered in a 1v1 fight from someone currently alive or someone currently alive to be called the strongest. Do you have anything that’s Kaido related that makes you question Killer’s words?
3) Why is Killer being considered retarded by other posters relevant? Did I ever say Killer is retarded? No. My avatar is Killer in a doctor outfit, I clearly don’t think he’s retarded. He’s clearly a very knowledgeable character. Knew the history about the Marine bell that Luffy rang along with Apoo’s weakness.
Anyways, the only way I’m changing my mind about Kaido being number 1 is if he is deferated in a 1v1, someone else shows way better feats than him, or another currently alive character is called the strongest. Discussing Whitebeard and Marineford isn’t going to change my mind.
1) You say Whitebeard never struggled to use haki, but that’s not true. We saw Whitebeard struggling to CoO, the image of Whitebeard removing the IV when Marco is thinking about how Squardo stabbed Whitebeard means the IV removal weakened his haki. We also saw a clean slash on Kizaru that didn’t get past his intangibility. And why would Whitebeard not attempt to use a CotC blast to clear out fodder if he could? Was he not splitting the sky with Shanks a few weeks ago?
2) As for why I’m believing Killer’s words, along with the chapter of the title, because nothing has been shown to contradict it. If you give me something to show that anyone currently alive could be stronger than Kaido, then I’ll disagree with his words. I’m not going to doubt what Killer says based on Whitebeard. I need an L that Kaido suffered in a 1v1 fight from someone currently alive or someone currently alive to be called the strongest. Do you have anything that’s Kaido related that makes you question Killer’s words?
3) Why is Killer being considered retarded by other posters relevant? Did I ever say Killer is retarded? No. My avatar is Killer in a doctor outfit, I clearly don’t think he’s retarded. He’s clearly a very knowledgeable character. Knew the history about the Marine bell that Luffy rang along with Apoo’s weakness.
Anyways, the only way I’m changing my mind about Kaido being number 1 is if he is deferated in a 1v1, someone else shows way better feats than him, or another currently alive character is called the strongest. Discussing Whitebeard and Marineford isn’t going to change my mind.
The point is to show the weight that WB believed his name to have. Again, WB did not once name anyone to be stronger than himself or contradict anyone saying it was his era. Everything indicates he still held on to his status just as he held on to his life to save Ace.
BB did indeed run but he already mentioned that it was because he wasn't ready yet and established himself. Even if he were actually the strongest he did not have the men or territory he yet desired. Running doesn't contradict his belief to be the strongest when even a young Whitebeard chose to run from Navy ships rather than get bogged down dealing with them.
BB did indeed run but he already mentioned that it was because he wasn't ready yet and established himself. Even if he were actually the strongest he did not have the men or territory he yet desired. Running doesn't contradict his belief to be the strongest when even a young Whitebeard chose to run from Navy ships rather than get bogged down dealing with them.
The problem is not Kaido being called the strongest. It's how the "strongest" manifests itself in different mangas and animes. Oda calling someone the strongest, doesn't mean you can impose your own definition of strength on characters.
There is a degree of non-linearity to One Piece fights, that doesn't really exist in DBZ. Ignoring that means you're being an idiot.
Ask yourself:
Is Kaido the fastest? Speed is a measure of strength. Of course he's not.
Is he the most agile? Obviously not.
Does he have the largest AoE? Nope.
Does he have the best CoO? Nope. Again, that is a measure of strength.
It's obvious as fuck that Oda means in terms of OVERALL COMBAT, not that he wins in every single stat. It's the AVERAGE of stats.
But having the highest average, doesn't guarantee you will win every 1 v. 1. That is clear as fuck. Matchups matter. At the end of the day it's still "bet on Kaido", not "Kaido wins every time guaranteed".
There is a degree of non-linearity to One Piece fights, that doesn't really exist in DBZ. Ignoring that means you're being an idiot.
Ask yourself:
Is Kaido the fastest? Speed is a measure of strength. Of course he's not.
Is he the most agile? Obviously not.
Does he have the largest AoE? Nope.
Does he have the best CoO? Nope. Again, that is a measure of strength.
It's obvious as fuck that Oda means in terms of OVERALL COMBAT, not that he wins in every single stat. It's the AVERAGE of stats.
But having the highest average, doesn't guarantee you will win every 1 v. 1. That is clear as fuck. Matchups matter. At the end of the day it's still "bet on Kaido", not "Kaido wins every time guaranteed".