Future Events Long Live ZKK

[Fn Lucci]

Ah, there's a poll.

I said 70%, that's about as real as I can figure right now. Anywhere from 40-100% is a solid guess. I'm sure everyone understands by now why it is the most logical conclusion, and for me of course it's the most satisfying. The part of me that wanted Zoro vs King isn't gone but I can no longer settle for that.

But logic doesn't actually determine what Oda does. I don't think he's illogical, but hard to predict. Some things will make sense but only when you have the whole picture, you know? So right now I see how much sense it makes for Ryuma's successor to actually succeed Ryuma and I will take the stream of Ls like Hakai if he doesn't.

 

[Den_Den_Mushi]

You're forgetting one more important narrative. If Zoro kills Kaido in front of everyone to see it would make him even more infamous than Luffy throughout the World.

So in a spread which should be of Shanks reading the newspaper of Luffy defeating Kaido and declaring it is now time for them to meet, we'll be greeted with a spread of Shanks reading the newspaper of how Zoro, Luffys subordinate, has killed the strongest Creature in the World. Very weird way for Oda to set up Shanks acceptance of Luffy becoming a Great Pirate.

You think Shanks’s definition of a great pirate involves Luffy killing someone? No. Why would Luffy also not be in the headline as having been the leader of a ninja-samurai-mink-supernova alliance? Uniting the samurai and the minks, both factions hyped as strong fighters since Punk Hazard, is a great feat of leadership and is far more in line with Shanks’s idea of a great pirate.

Even if Zoro does become more infamous, so what? Sanji has a higher bounty than him, we all know it won’t stay that way. To begin with, Zoro was more famous than Luffy for a good chunk of the story, all the way up to Alabasta. It was Zoro that Baroque Works sought out and it was Zoro who even Mihawk recognised as being locally renowned. There is precedent for all of this lmao, this ‘Luffy must be the darling of everyone’s eye and win every trophy’ argument just plain sucks.

 

[Fn Lucci]

You think Shanks’s definition of a great pirate involves Luffy killing someone? No. Why would Luffy also not be in the headline as having been the leader of a ninja-samurai-mink-supernova alliance? Uniting the samurai and the minks, both factions hyped as strong fighters since Punk Hazard, is a great feat of leadership and is far more in line with Shanks’s idea of a great pirate.

Even if Zoro does become more infamous, so what? Sanji has a higher bounty than him, we all know it won’t stay that way. To begin with, Zoro was more famous than Luffy for a good chunk of the story, all the way up to Alabasta. It was Zoro that Baroque Works sought out and it was Zoro who even Mihawk recognised as being locally renowned. There is precedent for all of this lmao, this ‘Luffy must be the darling of everyone’s eye and win every trophy’ argument just plain sucks.

Lol Shanks greets Luffy on the last island, then hands him a gun and leads him to a tied up Blackbeard. Shorty wanna be a thug

But nah, the reports as a plot device always work out just fine. Law and Luffy got equal bounties for taking down Doflamingo even though Luffy clearly took the W between them and only got it because of the whole city helping him. Luffy got credit for masterminding a plot to kill Big Mom and beating her two guys even though he arguably did none of those things himself either.

Luffy and Zoro sharing credit for beating Kaido makes more sense than Luffy being called the world's strongest creature, which is what he would have to be if he beats Kaido.

 

[zzShinichi]

Anyway the biggest obstacle for ZKK is not
- Zoro hasn't killed anyone on scene (if you not counting the Magistre, which is still in dispute)
- The SHs generally doesn't kill
- The Villlains generally don't die
- The other SHs won't overshadow Luffy in an arc
All these are just a case of "oh it never happened before so It can't happen now" which has been proven wrong with Marineford where 2 of the main good guys died in the same arc whearas no one had in the last 10 years of the manga, or in Thriller Bark where Zoro disputably overshadowed Luffy with his "Nothing happened moment".
In fact, I've been saying that this arc will mirror MF, where the person that's about to be executed, gets succesfully saved (Ace vs Momo), and 2 of the main baddies will die as oppose to 2 main good guys dying in MF (Kaidou + Orochi vs WB and
The biggest problem is, as many have pointed out, Yamato. As the chance of her being a SH is getting increasingly bigger, this begs the question of: how would the interaction between these 2 be if Zoro kills her father? Like I know Yamato hates her father and all, but being in the same crew with the man who decapitated her father must be awkward as fuck

 

[Finalbeta]

What has fodder Ryuma to do with this?

Fodder based off what?

- Zoro's model
- Shusui is a national treasure
- Legendary man
- Black blade forget at least seemingly

 

[Cinera]

@Cinera you never tag me. I'm disappointed.

You never asked.

 

[Sadistic Senpai]

It's undeniable, Zoro is killing Kaido and Sanji is fighting King :cheers:

Zoro is healing for Orochi

 

[Jackteo]

Zoro is healing for Orochi

And then Kaido, i agree

 

[Cinera]

Anyway the biggest obstacle for ZKK is not
- Zoro hasn't killed anyone on scene (if you not counting the Magistre, which is still in dispute)
- The SHs generally doesn't kill
- The Villlains generally don't die
- The other SHs won't overshadow Luffy in an arc
All these are just a case of "oh it never happened before so It can't happen now" which has been proven wrong with Marineford where 2 of the main good guys died in the same arc whearas no one had in the last 10 years of the manga, or in Thriller Bark where Zoro disputably overshadowed Luffy with his "Nothing happened moment".
In fact, I've been saying that this arc will mirror MF, where the person that's about to be executed, gets succesfully saved (Ace vs Momo), and 2 of the main baddies will die as oppose to 2 main good guys dying in MF (Kaidou + Orochi vs WB and
The biggest problem is, as many have pointed out, Yamato. As the chance of her being a SH is getting increasingly bigger, this begs the question of: how would the interaction between these 2 be if Zoro kills her father? Like I know Yamato hates her father and all, but being in the same crew with the man who decapitated her father must be awkward as fuck

Is it that big an obstacle?

 

[Chocolatemuppet]

zkk will be the biggest vindication of any fanbase ever

 

[Jackteo]

zkk will be the biggest vindication of any fanbase ever

Clearly you are not ready for Sanji vs King

 

[Shelby]

Wasn’t a fan of ZKK at first but after seeing Kaido clap Luffy for the 4th time well…

 

[matt245]

Yamato. As the chance of her being a SH is getting increasingly bigger, this begs the question of: how would the interaction between these 2 be if Zoro kills her father? Like I know Yamato hates her father and all, but being in the same crew with the man who decapitated her father must be awkward as fuck

It wouldn't be awkard when Yamayo herself said "let him die". And Zoro doesn't care about what she thinks or feels. Who knows, she could even thank him for doing what they couldn't do for 20 years.

 

[Finalbeta]

zkk will be the biggest vindication of any fanbase ever

Yes the most satisfying personally. Just like Zoro's superlative performance on the rooftop after all. After years of comparisons with Luffy that were even less accepted. Not that it mattered too much since what mattered the most is that truth was already being spread anyway. But the number of deniers was astoundingly big, leading to more misinformation. At least Zoro's power is being more acknowledged today, the road is still high.

 

[Blother Fertitta]

Anyway the biggest obstacle for ZKK is not
- Zoro hasn't killed anyone on scene (if you not counting the Magistre, which is still in dispute)
- The SHs generally doesn't kill
- The Villlains generally don't die
- The other SHs won't overshadow Luffy in an arc
All these are just a case of "oh it never happened before so It can't happen now" which has been proven wrong with Marineford where 2 of the main good guys died in the same arc whearas no one had in the last 10 years of the manga, or in Thriller Bark where Zoro disputably overshadowed Luffy with his "Nothing happened moment".
In fact, I've been saying that this arc will mirror MF, where the person that's about to be executed, gets succesfully saved (Ace vs Momo), and 2 of the main baddies will die as oppose to 2 main good guys dying in MF (Kaidou + Orochi vs WB and
The biggest problem is, as many have pointed out, Yamato. As the chance of her being a SH is getting increasingly bigger, this begs the question of: how would the interaction between these 2 be if Zoro kills her father? Like I know Yamato hates her father and all, but being in the same crew with the man who decapitated her father must be awkward as fuck

She would hop on Zoros dick then since Zoro is the man that accomplished what the fraud oden couldn't.

 

[gamaran]

I don't read anything that's longer than 2 paragraphs but this looks like something I should agree with

 

[Weeman]

The main issue i have with ZKK is that it overblows the importance of Zoro's supposed ties with Kaido:

-Kaido's role far exceeds that of just being a dragon to make a parallel with Ryuma's legend. His death would be too impactful for Wano and the world at large for it to be given so definitively to Zoro.

-Zoro claiming he wants to cut off Kaido's head is taken as gospel even though he also said he wanted to kill Orochi and recently even proclaimed his belief that Luffy will win. It's just Zoro expressing his desires and feelings.

-Him inheriting Oden's will through Enma, which is true to an extent, but similarly to my first point i don't think Oden's conflict with Kaido carries as much weight as his status as a Yonko and global political power. It's also why i don't think the scabbards cutting his head even after being defeated would happen either, despite them having a much more personal conflict with Kaido.

The most compelling reason to me is the necessity of Kaido's death, not only for all the points already mentioned here, but because i feel like Kaido's role and influence is too big for him to just be "defeated" the same way other country ruler villains like Doflamingo and Crocodile have been in the past.
The marines aren't here and i doubt they could just waltz into Wano at the end to send him to prison.
I doubt Kaido would just willingly give up rule of Wano either, so the only other option left is his death and the disbandment of his crew.
Luffy is fundamentally a character that would be hard to just have killing Kaido himself, which ends up leaving very few options for who could kill him:

- Zoro
- Big Mom through some kind of betrayal
- Blackbeard showing up at the end to kill him and take his fruit
- Suicide
- CP0

 

[spawn]

-Kaido's role far exceeds that of just being a dragon to make a parallel with Ryuma's legend. His death would be too impactful for Wano and the world at large for it to be given so definitively to Zoro.

You're correct, Kaido's role far exceeds just being a dragon. That's why Kaido is also developed as an Oni.
This is why I believe Luffy will defeat a hybrid Kaido (an Oni) in a 1-on-1. Whereas Zoro kills a dragon Kaido afterwards.

Also, concerning your second sentence. I think Garp the Fist's explanation is something to look at:

Not necessarily. Tashigi landed the last hit on Monet. Gin landed the last hit on Krieg. We were all still aware that it was Luffy and Zoro who won those fights. Luffy was the one to beat Moria, but it was the tower falling on him that finished the fight off, not anything Luffy did.

Kaido‘s legend is built on two things- he’s the favourite in any one vs one fight, and he can’t die. Both these plot points need to be resolved.

Luffy actually beating Kaido in a one vs one will be the more impressive thing if ZKK happens. If ZKK happens everything points to it being dragon Kaido that gets killed, Hiryu Kaen, above the Flower Capital. It’s not going to be a fight, where Zoro and Kaido are going toe to toe with each other, like Luffy and Kaido are doing. Landing one final hit on dragon Kaido and killing him is impressive, but going toe to toe with, and beating, hybrid Kaido in an extended fight is more impressive.

It’s all a question of framing. Oda was able to make it clear that Luffy beat Krieg, despite Gin landing the last hit. Same for Zoro beating Monet, despite Tashigi. If the same thing can be done here, then’s there’s no problem. The headline reads “Strawhat Luffy defeats the World’s Strongest Creature!” “Pirate Hunter Zoro lands the killing blow” the subheading.

If ZKK is to happen it will only be after Luffy has definitively beaten down, knocked out and stopped Kaido in a fight. Everyone will see that, it’ll be clear that Luffy won where it was meant to be impossible, Kaido himself will acknowledge that he was defeated.

But if he can recover much faster than humanly possible- through awakening, through his DF, through his own body, maybe through experiments done on him, who knows- that’s when the question of Kaido needing to be killed crops up. That’s when we see if ZKK happens.

There’s loads of ways it could be done. We could see Luffy punch Kaido across the entirely of the island of Wano and knock him clean out for half an hour or something like that. Luffy’s clearly won that fight, but Kaido could then recover before anyone gets to him, fly back when Luffy’s exhausted and then ZKK could happen. Luffy could knock out Kaido three seperate times but each time Kaido just gets back up, then ZKK could happen. Luffy could beat Kaido, and have to deal with BM after it which gives Kaido time to recover, then ZKK could happen.

I’ve went for the 50% option, cause I think it’s 50/50 what happens, but there is plenty of room for Luffy still to be the star even if Zoro kills Kaido.

-Zoro claiming he wants to cut off Kaido's head is taken as gospel even though he also said he wanted to kill Orochi and recently even proclaimed his belief that Luffy will win. It's just Zoro expressing his desires and feelings.

Zoro didn't say he wanted to kill Orochi. All he said was that he can't forgive Orochi and that he will avenge Yasu's death. He didn't say he will avenge Yasu by killing Orochi. Similar to Oden, Zoro realises that the true enemy is Kaido, hence why he planned on fighting Kaido since the very beginning of the raid (the first time he mentions it is 980).

 

[Kuruka]

the zkk delusion is still going strong

 

[Weeman]

You're correct, Kaido's role far exceeds just being a dragon. That's why Kaido is also developed as an Oni.
This is why I believe Luffy will defeat a hybrid Kaido (an Oni) in a 1-on-1. Whereas Zoro kills a dragon Kaido afterwards.

My point in that sentence was that Kaido's influence as a Yonko, as a major power of the world at large, is far more important than him being a dragon. Zoro killing him wouldn't just be a cool symbolic parallel with Ryuma's legend, it would be him irreversibly becoming a top threat in the eyes of the whole world after killing one of the four emperors.

Even if in the eyes of the reader Luffy was the one who did most of the work, Zoro killing Kaido carries way more weight for the people of Wano, for the entire world, which would result in him upstaging Luffy even if all he did was land the finishing blow.

We can't really compare this to Gin technically landing the final blow on Krieg, Kaido has far more importance than that. If ZKK were to happen, it would be a flashy event at the top of the flower capital where all the people below could see it (Zoro wouldn't just cut the head off of someone who is aready unconscious); and thanks to Drake and CP0 being there it would result in the news of the event spreading through the world immediatly after.

Kaido is too important of a figure to be killed by Zoro.