General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[AL sama]

CP0 doesn't report to the marines. Wasn't their entire mission in Wano kept secret from them? Drake had to report they were there.

not a valid point in this case cause it seemed like akainu knows everything that went down in wano

they'll be sure to confirm her strength and recommend a bounty, but i think Guernica (the last remaining CP0 Agent) betrayed them
he submitted a picture of Nika Luffy without Gorosei Approval

what would his motive be tho??

 

[Blother Fertitta]

not a valid point in this case cause it seemed like akainu knows everything that went down in wano

what would his motive be tho??

his mates all died

 

[rubblerust]

@AL sama , I think your argument that Momo's conversation slightly lowered Yamato's chances is something like this: when someone says "Steve didn't steal the money" it actually lowers the chance that Steve is innocent, because there would be no need to say that if the possibility didn't exist. Correct?

But if Steve had actually been accused of theft before, and it was the police saying that, then it would increase the chance of his innocence.

In this case Yamato had been "accused" already, specifically by Carrot fans claiming she is the guardian deity of Wano. In this case the exact authority on the matter, the Shogun himself, specifies that Yamato has no obligation to stay and must in fact leave.

It may be odd that Oda is reacting to fan sentiment, but I think together with the "torn out journal pages" plot point, it's likely to be the case.

 

[AL sama]

@AL sama , I think your argument that Momo's conversation slightly lowered Yamato's chances is something like this: when someone says "Steve didn't steal the money" it actually lowers the chance that Steve is innocent, because there would be no need to say that if the possibility didn't exist. Correct?

But if Steve had actually been accused of theft before, and it was the police saying that, then it would increase the chance of his innocence.

In this case Yamato had been "accused" already, specifically by Carrot fans claiming she is the guardian deity of Wano. In this case the exact authority on the matter, the Shogun himself, specifies that Yamato has no obligation to stay and must in fact leave.

It may be odd that Oda is reacting to fan sentiment, but I think together with the "torn out journal pages" plot point, it's likely to be the case.

I get what you're saying but what carrot fans say doesn't effect the manga does it??

 

[KonyaruIchi]

I get what you're saying but what carrot fans say doesn't effect the manga does it??

If it did Carrot would've already joined the crew by now, or ever really

 

[AL sama]

If it did Carrot would've already joined the crew by now, or ever really

true

 

[Sigran101]

@AL sama , I think your argument that Momo's conversation slightly lowered Yamato's chances is something like this: when someone says "Steve didn't steal the money" it actually lowers the chance that Steve is innocent, because there would be no need to say that if the possibility didn't exist. Correct?

But if Steve had actually been accused of theft before, and it was the police saying that, then it would increase the chance of his innocence.

In this case Yamato had been "accused" already, specifically by Carrot fans claiming she is the guardian deity of Wano. In this case the exact authority on the matter, the Shogun himself, specifies that Yamato has no obligation to stay and must in fact leave.

It may be odd that Oda is reacting to fan sentiment, but I think together with the "torn out journal pages" plot point, it's likely to be the case.

I'm completely on your side of the argument, but this aint it fam.

 

[KonyaruIchi]

If I may add, while I don't agree with the argument that this instance reduces Yamato's chances of joining, I do appreciate the fact a *reasonable* argument was put forward which led to a proper debate for once. It's funny to poke fun at C4N's or Lurozumi's dopey arguments for a while, but it became really stale when said arguments have been crumbling faster than a house of cards under a light breeze after the latest chapters. I just wish this thread was more of the reasonable argument type, not the subversive affirmations type

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

If I may add, while I don't agree with the argument that this instance reduces Yamato's chances of joining, I do appreciate the fact a *reasonable* argument was put forward which led to a proper debate for once. It's funny to poke fun at C4N's or Lurozumi's dopey arguments for a while, but it became really stale when said arguments have been crumbling faster than a house of cards under a light breeze after the latest chapters. I just wish this thread was more of the reasonable argument type, not the subversive affirmations type

1000% this.

Thank you AL :cheers:

 

[rubblerust]

I'm completely on your side of the argument, but this aint it fam.

Well then what is it? Because @AL sama 's complaint sounds a whole lot like subversive affirmation otherwise.

 

[AL sama]

Well then what is it? Because @AL sama 's complaint sounds a whole lot like subversive affirmation otherwise.

how so??

Post automatically merged: Aug 1, 2022

my point was that yamato might think momo needs more help and stay behind cause of the incident and shanks giving them a helping hand

 

[Sigran101]

Well then what is it? Because @AL sama 's complaint sounds a whole lot like subversive affirmation otherwise.

Well your argument only makes sense if the Carrot fans are characters in the story. Fan input has nothing to do with the narrative structure of the story. Al isn't an ass clown, so he's not talking about subversive affirmation. It's a common (real) literary technique to have characters say something is or isn't going to happen in order to forshadow the opposite. Like when a detective in a show says the first suspect is definitely the culprit, you know it's not going to be him. The declarations from Yamato are obviously not an example of this, but the statement from Momo could easily be taken that way. I considered the same thing when I read the spoilers, but the official translation sounded less suspicious and it would go against the main theme of One Piece, which is following your dreams no matter what.

 

[AL sama]

Well your argument only makes sense if the Carrot fans are characters in the story. Fan input has nothing to do with the narrative structure of the story. Al isn't an ass clown, so he's not talking about subversive affirmation. It's a common (real) literary technique to have characters say something is or isn't going to happen in order to forshadow the opposite. Like when a detective in a show says the first suspect is definitely the culprit, you know it's not going to be him. The declarations from Yamato are obviously not an example of this, but the statement from Momo could easily be taken that way. I considered the same thing when I read the spoilers, but the official translation sounded less suspicious and it would go against the main theme of One Piece, which is following your dreams no matter what.

yeah basically this and its fine if you disagree

 

[rubblerust]

Well your argument only makes sense if the Carrot fans are characters in the story. Fan input has nothing to do with the narrative structure of the story. Al isn't an ass clown, so he's not talking about subversive affirmation. It's a common (real) literary technique to have characters say something is or isn't going to happen in order to forshadow the opposite. Like when a detective in a show says the first suspect is definitely the culprit, you know it's not going to be him. The declarations from Yamato are obviously not an example of this, but the statement from Momo could easily be taken that way. I considered the same thing when I read the spoilers, but the official translation sounded less suspicious and it would go against the main theme of One Piece, which is following your dreams no matter what.

This is literally what @CarrotForNakama calls subversive affirmation.

 

[KonyaruIchi]

This is literally what @CarrotForNakama calls subversive affirmation.

Which is also an incorrect definition. Subversive affirmation is a real storytelling concept and the dude just appropriated it

 

[Sigran101]

This is literally what @CarrotForNakama calls subversive affirmation.

Yikes

I don't know how to explain it any better. You're asking to get clowned my dude, and none of us are gonna defend you if the dumbster crew picks on you for this one.

Edited to be less of a douchenozzle

 

[AL sama]

 

[Sigran101]

Which is also an incorrect definition. Subversive affirmation is a real storytelling concept and the dude just appropriated it

Just to be clear, what we're talking about is also completely unrelated to real subversive affirmation. It's just a simple form of forshadowing. There's not a fancy name for it.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

This thread is something else ain't it?

 

[KonyaruIchi]

Just to be clear, what we're talking about is also completely unrelated to real subversive affirmation. It's just a simple form of forshadowing. There's not a fancy name for it.

Oh don't worry I know, it's just that on top of this not being "subversive affirmation", the definition used by C4N is literally something he made up to push his agenda further, I was just pointing out the double whammy