Who will be the next Strawhat


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Nice strawman.
You of all people are saying this?! lmfao :milaugh:
None of the SHs were happy in their pasts. All of them had struggles that came into play during their arcs where they were the one of the main characters. Their pasts directly tied in to the thematic story telling of their arcs.
Yes, and as you were told the arc where they are the main character can and has come after a character joins the crew.
9 times in a row for 9 recruits in a row but for Carrot, she so special that she doesn't need it. Oda will break his thematic story telling just for Carrot.
Except that it wasn't 9 times in a row.

The main thematic arcs for Nami and Robin were Arlong Park and Enies Lobby. Both arcs that took place once they were already unofficial crew members.
 

Uncle Van

Taxes Are a Sickness
You of all people are saying this?! lmfao :milaugh:
Yep. Whenever someone strawmans me, I poke fun at it and throw it right back at them, only for them to deflect by saying I'm strawmanning them and nothing else aka calling out their own actions. Fun to watch.

Peeps love deflecting.

Yes, and as you were told the arc where they are the main character can and has come after a character joins the crew.
Nami and Robin were main characters in their first arcs as welln

Except that it wasn't 9 times in a row.
I'm sure you can count. We have 9 recruits so far so it happened 9 times in a row.

The main thematic arcs for Nami and Robin were Arlong Park and Enies Lobby. Both arcs that took place once they were already unofficial crew members.
And were still main characters of their first arcs and never side characters.
 
It's such a silly criteria that is successfully cleared by like 80% of characters in the series...including Carrot.

She witnessed an attempted genocide on her home island
She saw her mentor explode right in front of her eyes
She lost a fight at the hands of the one responsible

She's had her fair share of struggle. Just because she's not constantly brooding about how miserable her life is doesn't mean anything at all.
In that flashback we didn't get it from her perspective though.... On top there were doing it for friend of their leaders. There willing put lives risk to save a friend.
We don't know history between her and mentor figure.... She had brief flashback just like paulie, bartolomeo, Chew chew, and otama.
She lost fight? But who among the straw hats are fighting for her behalf? None of them at the moment. The only one who has said, they would deal with perospero is Cat viper. Which kind undermines her own motivation drive join the straw hats in the first place.
 
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Yep. Whenever someone strawmans me, I point fun at it and throw it right back at them, only for them to deflect by saying I'm strawmanning them
Can't say I'm surprised people claim you strawman them, when that's basically the only way you know how to debate.
Nami and Robin were main characters in their first arcs as welln
Carrot was a main character in WCI.
I'm sure you can count. We have 9 recruits so far so it happened 9 times in a row.
We very obviously disagree on 2 of the recruits but talk your shit.
And were still main characters of their first arcs and never side characters.
Robin was a side character in Alabasta. She wasn't one of the protagonists and she wasn't the main antagonist. She was the mysterious character on the side.

And it's funny how this has drifted from the original "Carrot was happy on Zou. Therefore she can't join" nonsense point we started with.
 

Uncle Van

Taxes Are a Sickness
Can't say I'm surprised people claim you strawman them, when that's basically the only way you know how to debate.
And to this day no one can show me this. It's always my posts where I exaggerate what people say in response to people doing to me first.

Carrot was a main character in WCI.
As much as Rebecca in DR and still on a lesser scale of importance to the arc.

We very obviously disagree on 2 of the recruits but talk your shit.
Nope. I don't believe Nami and Robin were happy and free of conflict in their pasts(sarcasm since you can't notice)...I never mentioned Nami and Robin being different. So about the strawmanning thing...

Robin was a side character in Alabasta. She wasn't one of the protagonists and she wasn't the main antagonist. She was the mysterious character on the side.
She was one of the main stays and integral to the arc.

And it's funny how this has drifted from the original "Carrot was happy on Zou. Therefore she can't join" nonsense point we started with.
It never drifted. I always said Carrot was happy and free of conflict while the other SHs were not.

You were the one who brought up Nami and Robin so if anything, you're the one trying to change the subject.
 
And still this day no one can show me this. It's always my posts where I exaggerate what people say in response to people doing to me first.
It's easy. Just look at any from about 90% of the posts you've made. Look at what you're replying to and then look at what your response is. If you look back on it (out of the moment) it should appear extremely obvious. A recent example:
The scabbards can stay and look after the country whilst Momo and Yamao leave.
So the Scabbaess can easily look after Wano when Momo leaves? Then what's the point or Yamato sTaYiNg?
You don't debate actual arguments, you debate imaginary claims made up by none other than you yourself.

She was one of the main stays and integral to the arc.
No she wasn't. She played the role of the sexy secretary with an added healthy dose of mystery. The only things that absolutely needed to be done by her in Alabasta was the very end of the arc with the ponegliff reveal. She wasn't a leading figure that we followed consistently throughout the arc like we followed the straw hats. Skypeia on the other hand is an arc where she played the role of a protagonist without needing to be the main focus of the arc.
It never drifted. I always said Carrot was happy and free of conflict while the other SHs were not.
Wrong on both ends.

Usopp was perfectly happy on Syrup Village. He had a close circle of friends, a potential love interest and a village that loved him whom he loved equally back despite his mischief. What you don't seem to understand is that conflict doesn't just mean being all gloomy or miserable about something. Usopp and Carrot have very similar points of conflict. They're both adventurous individuals at heart that are stuck in a place where they can't adventure. Their desire to explore is in conflict with their boring surroundings.
 
Why Carrot has to be like Yamato to Join??
Or like Sanji????


Why she can not be like she's now??? I mean, why can't she join the crew how it actually is???
XD
Don't you really realize how oversaturated would be if every mugi had to be greater than the mugi before???
I don't think you read or understand what i wrote. Carrot can stay the way she is right now- nobody said she can't and nobody is trying to stop her, but what she is right now is not Straw Hat material. Yamato is.

The matter of fact is that no Straw Hat has ever joined the crew that is as minimally built up and as shallow as Carrot. Plenty of One Piece characters meet the minimum things that Carrot has like a sad backstory and also dreams, but many of them if not most of them never joined the crew. Vivi, Dalton, Wyper, Paulie, Rebecca, Pudding etc, there are countless characters who fall into this category.

Its the reason why we got Franky instead of Paulie, its the reason why we got Brook instead of Perona.

Most if not all the straw hats had their own good reason and reservation to not join Luffy's crew at the start, and only when they see that they can achieve their dreams and goals by joining Luffy do they actually join Luffy. Most of them also had to give something up or let go in return to join. All of them had something that was holding them back from joining.

Zoro at first turned down Luffy's offer and never wanted to become a pirate, until he had no choice because Captain Morgan was gonna execute him

Nami wanted to join the crew and sail with Luffy and the rest, but she couldn't at first because her village was held hostage by Arlong

Ussop wanted to join the crew, but he couldn't do it without saving his village from Kuro first

Sanji couldn't join the crew, until he was able to let go of his sense of guilt in repaying Zeff for sacrificing his leg for him

Chopper couldn't join the crew, because Drum Kingdom was still under threat from Wapol

Robin couldn't join properly the first time, because she was afraid that the WG will go after the crew, giving them a burden

Franky couldn't join at first, because CP0 was still a threat to him and Iceberg, Tom had not been avenged, and he still felt like he had the Franky Family to take care of as a responsibility.

Brook couldn't join at first, because his shadow was stolen, and he still was unable to fulfil Laboon's promise, returning to him from the other side.

Jinbe couldn't join at first, because he still had the burden and felt the responsibility to unite the people of Fishman Island and to also help the fishman from the fishman underground, fulfilling Fisher Tiger's will. Jinbe also couldn't join at first because he still hadn't properly cut ties with Big Mom, and he knows that if he leaves her unannounced, Big Mom would go after Aladdin and the Sun Pirates.


For every straw hat who joined, it never happened easily for every one of them. They all either had something that was tying them down like responsibility, or they had other plans that they must carry out which were more important to them than joining and becoming a pirate to find the One Piece, or it was risky for them to leave everything behind and just join without doing anything else.

For Yamato it will be defeating Kaido, kicking him out and freeing Wano from Kaido's tyranny. Yamato also had to turn against his own father and be expelled from the Beast Pirates, a Yonko's crew. That's not a easy decision that any girl can just muster up the determination and courage to take. Pudding for example never went against Big Mom, despite how defiant she was in her heart. Yamato is also taking a risk, for if Luffy fails to take down Kaido-then Yamato's gamble would have been for nothing, and the fate that Kaido decides for her then could be even worse than just being locked up and risk dying by explosive shackles. Yamato was even shocked when Luffy said to Big Mom that he didn't come to Wano to take down Kaido, but both of them. Yamato was relieved, but the first part had Yamato worried that Luffy really wasn't here in Wano to take down kaido, and her gamble and betrayal could have been for nothing.

What has Carrot done for Zou for her to join the crew? What has Carrot had to sacrifice and give up personally to join the crew?

*The reason why the straw hats who join had their own character arcs, is because it helped develop and flesh out their character first, and it also added internal conflicts and burdens for them before they joined, so Luffy can come in to help and resolve them- it is through this process that the bond between the new straw hat and Luffy is created and sealed in stone.

This also makes every straw hat joining not a easy decision for each and every one of them, making Luffy's efforts to recruitment them all the more satisfying, rewarding and most importantly- meaningful.

Having Carrot just saying that she wants to go on an adventure and randomly popping up on the Sunny is not how a Straw Hat joins, it's not what makes a Straw Hat.

The whole idea, draw and romanticism of Pirates and One Piece in this story, is the idea of taking risks to achieve your dreams, and making sacrifices to achieve your goals. What good reason does Carrot have to join the crew outside of just wanting to go on an adventure? Or fulfilling Pedro's will, which is an even more shallow excuse to join the crew- joining because of somebody else, when the dreams of every straw hat are all individualistic and personal? Or the Dawn, which is just a 'thing' that Oda still hasn't properly explained in the story, but by all means it is implied to be grandiose, hereditary and general, not individualistic and properly defined?
 
It's easy. Just look at any from about 90% of the posts you've made. Look at what you're replying to and then look at what your response is. If you look back on it (out of the moment) it should appear extremely obvious. A recent example:


You don't debate actual arguments, you debate imaginary claims made up by none other than you yourself.


No she wasn't. She played the role of the sexy secretary with an added healthy dose of mystery. The only things that absolutely needed to be done by her in Alabasta was the very end of the arc with the ponegliff reveal. She wasn't a leading figure that we followed consistently throughout the arc like we followed the straw hats. Skypeia on the other hand is an arc where she played the role of a protagonist without needing to be the main focus of the arc.

Wrong on both ends.

Usopp was perfectly happy on Syrup Village. He had a close circle of friends, a potential love interest and a village that loved him whom he loved equally back despite his mischief. What you don't seem to understand is that conflict doesn't just mean being all gloomy or miserable about something. Usopp and Carrot have very similar points of conflict. They're both adventurous individuals at heart that are stuck in a place where they can't adventure. Their desire to explore is in conflict with their boring surroundings.
Pedro's death wasn't a tragedy for them, they won't understand you LMAO
 

Uncle Van

Taxes Are a Sickness
It's easy. Just look at any from about 90% of the posts you've made. Look at what you're replying to and then look at what your response is. If you look back on it (out of the moment) it should appear extremely obvious. A recent example:


You don't debate actual arguments, you debate imaginary claims made up by none other than you yourself.
Lol thanks for proving the point. You always said Momo and Yamato are gonna stay in Wano, but leave to travel around to introduce to world to Wano. You also said Yamato would stay as Wano's guardian.

If the scabbards are strong enough to protect Wano, what's the point of Yamato staying behind(aka not being a SH) or being Momo's protector?

This just you being dishonest again and a perfect example of how everyone understands what I'm saying except the person accusing the strawman lmao. Way to cut out the context of the debate as well.

No she wasn't. She played the role of the sexy secretary with an added healthy dose of mystery. The only things that absolutely needed to be done by her in Alabasta was the very end of the arc with the ponegliff reveal. She wasn't a leading figure that we followed consistently throughout the arc like we followed the straw hats. Skypeia on the other hand is an arc where she played the role of a protagonist without needing to be the main focus of the arc.
She was a mainstay.

Wrong on both ends.
Usopp was perfectly happy on Syrup Village. He had a close circle of friends, a potential love interest and the village that loved him whom he loved equally back despite his mischief. What you don't seem to understand is that conflict doesn't just mean being all gloomy or miserable about something. Usopp and Carrot have very similar points of conflict. They're both adventurous individuals at heart that are stuck in a place where they can't adventure. Their desire to explore is in conflict with their boring surroundings.
Usopp was an outcast who was a troublemaker in hometown. His father left, his momma died and no one in town believes a thing he says.

Strawmanning me once again lol. I never said nor implied that the SH were completely gloomy and shit. When did I say SHs can't have happy moments or something?

I said that they didn't live happy lives and faced conflict. Carrot lived the happy life in that she was free of any conflict. Everyone in Zou loved Carrot and she wasn't an outcast like Usopp.
 
Pedro's death wasn't a tragedy for them, they won't understand you LMAO
Oh I know lol. That's why I pick and choose which posts to respond to if I think there's value to be added for the sake of a 3rd party reading the debate. I don't genuinely believe I will or even care to convince some of the posters here with arguments since I'm afraid that's a lost cause for many of them.
 
I don't think you read or understand what i wrote. Carrot can stay the way she is right now- nobody said she can't and nobody is trying to stop her, but what she is right now is not Straw Hat material. Yamato is.

The matter of fact is that no Straw Hat has ever joined the crew that is as minimally built up and as shallow as Carrot. Plenty of One Piece characters meet the minimum things that Carrot has like a sad backstory and also dreams, but many of them if not most of them never joined the crew. Vivi, Dalton, Wyper, Paulie, Rebecca, Pudding etc, there are countless characters who fall into this category.

Its the reason why we got Franky instead of Paulie, its the reason why we got Brook instead of Perona.

Most if not all the straw hats had their own good reason and reservation to not join Luffy's crew at the start, and only when they see that they can achieve their dreams and goals by joining Luffy do they actually join Luffy. Most of them also had to give something up or let go in return to join. All of them had something that was holding them back from joining.

Zoro at first turned down Luffy's offer and never wanted to become a pirate, until he had no choice because Captain Morgan was gonna execute him

Nami wanted to join the crew and sail with Luffy and the rest, but she couldn't at first because her village was held hostage by Arlong

Ussop wanted to join the crew, but he couldn't do it without saving his village from Kuro first

Sanji couldn't join the crew, until he was able to let go of his sense of guilt in repaying Zeff for sacrificing his leg for him

Chopper couldn't join the crew, because Drum Kingdom was still under threat from Wapol

Robin couldn't join properly the first time, because she was afraid that the WG will go after the crew, giving them a burden

Franky couldn't join at first, because CP0 was still a threat to him and Iceberg, Tom had not been avenged, and he still felt like he had the Franky Family to take care of as a responsibility.

Brook couldn't join at first, because his shadow was stolen, and he still was unable to fulfil Laboon's promise, returning to him from the other side.

Jinbe couldn't join at first, because he still had the burden and felt the responsibility to unite the people of Fishman Island and to also help the fishman from the fishman underground, fulfilling Fisher Tiger's will. Jinbe also couldn't join at first because he still hadn't properly cut ties with Big Mom, and he knows that if he leaves her unannounced, Big Mom would go after Aladdin and the Sun Pirates.


For every straw hat who joined, it never happened easily for every one of them. They all either had something that was tying them down like responsibility, or they had other plans that they must carry out which were more important to them than joining and becoming a pirate to find the One Piece, or it was risky for them to leave everything behind and just join without doing anything else.

For Yamato it will be defeating Kaido, kicking him out and freeing Wano from Kaido's tyranny. Yamato also had to turn against his own father and be expelled from the Beast Pirates, a Yonko's crew. That's not a easy decision that any girl can just muster up the determination and courage to take. Pudding for example never went against Big Mom, despite how defiant she was in her heart. Yamato is also taking a risk, for if Luffy fails to take down Kaido-then Yamato's gamble would have been for nothing, and the fate that Kaido decides for her then could be even worse than just being locked up and risk dying by explosive shackles. Yamato was even shocked when Luffy said to Big Mom that he didn't come to Wano to take down Kaido, but both of them. Yamato was relieved, but the first part had Yamato worried that Luffy really wasn't here in Wano to take down kaido, and her gamble and betrayal could have been for nothing.

What has Carrot done for Zou for her to join the crew? What has Carrot had to sacrifice and give up personally to join the crew?

*The reason why the straw hats who join had their own character arcs, is because it helped develop and flesh out their character first, and it also added internal conflicts and burdens for them before they joined, so Luffy can come in to help and resolve them- it is through this process that the bond between the new straw hat and Luffy is created and sealed in stone.

This also makes every straw hat joining not a easy decision for each and every one of them, making Luffy's efforts to recruitment them all the more satisfying, rewarding and most importantly- meaningful.

Having Carrot just saying that she wants to go on an adventure and randomly popping up on the Sunny is not how a Straw Hat joins, it's not what makes a Straw Hat.

The whole idea, draw and romanticism of Pirates and One Piece in this story, is the idea of taking risks to achieve your dreams, and making sacrifices to achieve your goals. What good reason does Carrot have to join the crew outside of just wanting to go on an adventure? Or fulfilling Pedro's will, which is an even more shallow excuse to join the crew- joining because of somebody else, when the dreams of every straw hat are all individualistic and personal? Or the Dawn, which is just a 'thing' that Oda still hasn't properly explained in the story, but by all means it is implied to be grandiose, hereditary and general, not individualistic and properly defined?
First, thanks for your post.
And related to it, i think that you're wrong when you say Carrot is not a Mugi-like character, but sooo sooo wrong.

First because she has a role, like it or not, she has it. Is pretty good at it, is pretty able too and fits very well.
Second because she's already integrated (Like brook was) and has been potrayed as a mugi a lot of times.
Third because the character can still progress and have a plot on the future related to the Minks and the Moon + The story of the century void and the Kozuki+Mink relation.
Fourth because it'll have no sense to made her leave with the Mugis in Zou+Whole Cake to go back with the Minks...Just because "she already lived her desired adventure"...That would feel forced and out of character after what Perospero said to her and afterwe saw her remembering Pedro's last words...

And IMO your main issue with your analisis is that You simply don't like the idea of a simple character to Join...
 

Uncle Van

Taxes Are a Sickness
First, thanks for your post.
And related to it, i think that you're wrong when you say Carrot is not a Mugi-like character, but sooo sooo wrong.

First because she has a role, like it or not, she has it. Is pretty good at it, is pretty able too and fits very well.
Second because she's already integrated (Like brook was) and has been potrayed as a mugi a lot of times.
Third because the character can still progress and have a plot on the future related to the Minks and the Moon + The story of the century void and the Kozuki+Mink relation.
Fourth because it'll have no sense to made her leave with the Mugis in Zou+Whole Cake to go back with the Minks...Just because "she already lived her desired adventure"...That would feel forced and out of character after what Perospero said to her and afterwe saw her remembering Pedro's last words...

And IMO your main issue with your analisis is that You simply don't like the idea of a simple character to Join...
Can honestly say that it's completely irrelevant what people want or not in SH.

What matters are the arguments or hints to give people a reason to bet a candidate. Carrot right now is lacking some key arguments. Yamato has many but Kyros has proven that even the seemingly perfect candidate goes nowehere.

I don't give 2 shits about Yamato or Carrot and believe both are trash characters, Chopper included.
 
The dreaded village boy Usopp. Shunned from society and banished to skulk around in the shadows of exile like the outcast he is. Oh how they loathed him...

Oh how he tormented them...

Oh how they cursed his very existence...

No surprise that he hated their guts right back!!

And there! You see. Carrot's just an ordinary member of the community, who bribes guards to sneak out of the country and stowaway on pirate ships into yonko territory. She simply hasn't lived the harrowing life of a village outcast such as Usopp the dreaded village boy.
 

Uncle Van

Taxes Are a Sickness
The dreaded village boy Usopp. Shunned from society and banished to skulk around in the shadows of exile. Oh how they loathed him...

Oh how he tormented them...

Oh how they cursed his very existence...

No surprise that he hated their guts right back!!

And there! You see. Carrot's just an ordinary member of the community, who bribes guards to sneak out of the country and stowaway on pirate ships into yonko territory. She simply hasn't lived the harrowing life of a village outcast such as Usopp the dreaded village boy.
Once again the Strawman. No one said Usopp hated his village, no one said the village despised Usppp etc...

Usopp was an outcast. He wanted to be a pirate just like dad but had no way to do it. The death of his mother made him lonely so he became a pathological liar to get attention which annoyed the village. His lies came back to haunt him when a real pirate crew arrived at the port.

Carrot, as far as we know, had no such ordeal in the slightest. No ordeals at all for that matter. She's always been curious about the outside world and wanted one adventure, even believing she was coming straight back to Zou. No hints whatsoever that she felt out of place.
 
Once again the Strawman. No one said Usopp hated his village, no one said the village despised Usppp etc...

Usopp was an outcast. He wanted to be a pirate just like dad but had no way to do it. The death of his mother made him lonely so he became a pathological liar to get attention which annoyed the village. His lies came back to haunt him when a real pirate crew arrived at the port.
Carrot wanted to go out to sea and explore the wonderland. She was stuck on Zou her entire life, unable to act on her desires and so when the opportunity presented itself she bribed the guards and snuck out of the dukedom without permission to board a pirate ship that was heading into yonko territory.

Her full backstory hasn't been explored yet so we can't yet see what the deeper driving force is for her.
Carrot, as far as we know, had no such ordeal in the slightest. No ordeals at all for that matter. She's always been curious about the outside world and wanted one adventure, even believing she was coming straight back to Zou. No hints whatsoever that she felt out of place.
Carrot never said she wanted "one adventure" and it was never stated that she believed she was coming straight back.

And no, it's not normal for 15 year olds to sneak on pirate ships heading off to face yonko.
 
First, thanks for your post.
And related to it, i think that you're wrong when you say Carrot is not a Mugi-like character, but sooo sooo wrong.

First because she has a role, like it or not, she has it. Is pretty good at it, is pretty able too and fits very well.
Second because she's already integrated (Like brook was) and has been potrayed as a mugi a lot of times.
Third because the character can still progress and have a plot on the future related to the Minks and the Moon + The story of the century void and the Kozuki+Mink relation.
Fourth because it'll have no sense to made her leave with the Mugis in Zou+Whole Cake to go back with the Minks...Just because "she already lived her desired adventure"...That would feel forced and out of character after what Perospero said to her and afterwe saw her remembering Pedro's last words...

And IMO your main issue with your analisis is that You simply don't like the idea of a simple character to Join...
The main issue isn't that i don't like the idea of Carrot joining because she is a simple character and not a complex one, its the fact that no Straw Hat that joined were simple characters, that's a fact, not my opinion.

The points in your first three sentences can also be applied to Vivi, who never joined the crew.

As for your fourth point, i already said that Pedro's words cannot be used as real evidence in this argument as they are not properly defined. It's also perfectly fine for Carrot to leave Zou, go to WCI and Wano and not go to Raftel, Inuarashi and Nekomamushi didn't either. Neither did Pedro. How does that feel forced, as compared to saying that Carrot will join the crew and go to Raftel with Luffy when Carrot herself never said that and just expected a couple day sightseeing trip to WCI in the first place? And what Perospero says, is as about as important as what Arlong said to Nami, words of villain's in this context don't mean anything, otherwise Yamato would be Shogun and Kaido and Big Mom will find the One Piece and not Luffy just because Kaido himself said so.

Perospero also told Carrot to go into the forest and eat some grass, does that mean that Carrot will actually go into the forest and chew on some grass??
 
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