Break Week No, Zoro is NOT "Done" After Defeating King
@Cinera
this is not fully relate to your thread but Marco plot line, he has a power that can restore momentarily your HP and also your energy.
(check the samurai that were effected by queen ice oni drug, also marco that uses blue flame to heal the animals)
He moved from the live floor in which Kidd&Law are fighting Big Mom.
He doesnt look like want to go on the rooftop (nothing anticipate that)
He is not moving were the main action is. Does perhaps move Marco oustide Onigashima to met Zoro?
I mean someone is taking care of Sanji but no one is taking care of Zoro.
Hyori is in the treasure room which is deeply inside Onigashima.
To me make perfectly sense that Marco which has a power that can help momentarily Zoro goes there.
this is not fully relate to your thread but Marco plot line, he has a power that can restore momentarily your HP and also your energy.
(check the samurai that were effected by queen ice oni drug, also marco that uses blue flame to heal the animals)
He moved from the live floor in which Kidd&Law are fighting Big Mom.
He doesnt look like want to go on the rooftop (nothing anticipate that)
He is not moving were the main action is. Does perhaps move Marco oustide Onigashima to met Zoro?
I mean someone is taking care of Sanji but no one is taking care of Zoro.
Hyori is in the treasure room which is deeply inside Onigashima.
To me make perfectly sense that Marco which has a power that can help momentarily Zoro goes there.
Hiyori and Marco can heal Zoro so his recovery isn't an issue. Zoro has yet to carve his name into legend within Wano and establish himself as a samurai surpassing Oden, Ushimaru and Ryuma. Considering the themes of inherited will, Zoro has yet to fulfil the wills of the Shimotsuki clan or Ryuma by either blackening Enma or slaying a dragon above the Flower Capital.
Will Zoro fight again during the Wano arc ?
Yes. Zoro king of hell ashura vs Sanji ifrit jambe.
Yes. Zoro king of hell ashura vs Sanji ifrit jambe.
:laughmoji:, Sanji is a cook. Leave in peace that poor soul (which recover from his German66 depression).Zoro is the king of Hell he has more business with a terrible ONI. Isnt the king of Hell (n Hindu Mythology, God Yama is the King of Hell. He is also the God of Death and Justice.) responsible for the Oni behavior and punishment?
Post automatically merged:
why is that? cuz Zoro is taking a nap? because ZvK didnt show anything significant about ZKK.
@Cinera
go and drop your vote: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/zkk-or-not-zkk-bet-your-account.20062/#post-2250914
Post automatically merged:
go and drop your vote: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/zkk-or-not-zkk-bet-your-account.20062/#post-2250914
Introduction
Many people think that Zoro is done after his defeat of King in 1035. That he has no important role (at least not a combat one) to play for the remainder of the arc.
I think the opinion is misguided. Zoro still has two very important plotlines that have yet to receive any sort of resolution in this arc.
Oden and Enma
Kaido repeatedly drew a connection between Zoro, Enma and Oden:
That connection has yet to have any payoff to date. If Zoro is done for after the King defeat, then pray tell, what was the purpose of these scenes?
Even at the end of the King fight, Zoro still had not yet reached Oden's mastery of Enma. He says that fighting with Enma fully unleashed would kill him:
Meanwhile, Oden could wield Enma as if it were as light as a feather:
However, Zoro has been setup to surpass Oden's mastery of Enma. To accomplish that which Oden could not do:
This still has no payoff yet.
Finally, Kaido's declaration that there shall never be a "monster samurai" of the likes of Kozuki Oden has still not been proven wrong:
Kaido needs to eat those words and acknowledge that such a samurai has been born.
This leads me to expect a second confrontation between Zoro and Kaido.
Here's a much more thorough explanation of the Oden argument.
Ryuma
Zoro has a storyline involving Ryuma and the people have Wano that has still not yet met its conclusion.
When Zoro first came to Wano, he was scorned as a murderer and grave robber:
Someone who stole Wano's national treasure and caused misfortune to befall the country as they incurred the wrath of the Sword God:
Even the person most sympathetic to Zoro (Hiyori) insisted that he return their treasure:
Stressing that it's revered as a relic:
Yet, Zoro is going to visit Ryuma's grave after the end of the war:
Before that visit, he needs to be acknowledged as a hero to the people of Wano. He must be vindicated. Ryuma's soul and Shusui itself personally chose Zoro after all:
Saving Wano in its most dire moment and coincidentally replicating Ryuma's legend vindicates Zoro.
Defeating King does not. None of the people in the Flower Capital cares about King. King is not the source of their torment and oppression. He was never a threat to them. Kaido is.
ZKK isn't necessary to get a Ryuma parallel. It doesn't need to happen for the fanservice of Zoro cutting a dragon. It's actually important for Zoro's character that he's vindicated in this way to the people of Wanokuni.
This is what I mean when I tell the detractors: "you don't even understand ZKK". Their complaints don't actually engage with the theory. They just refute and debunk a caricature of the theory, not the actual theory.
Here's a much more detailed explanation of the Ryuma argument.
The Ryuma argument was never solely about Zoro paralleling Ryuma by slaying a dragon.
Conclusions
To leave these plot lines unresolved would be a massive disservice to Zoro's character. Furthermore, these two plotlines cannot be addressed anywhere else but in Wano itself. There is no realistic way to address them outside the Wanokuni arc. The context that makes the accomplishments meaningful are all tier to Wano.
If these plotlines are not resolved in Wano, they will simply never be resolved at all (at least not in any manner that can be considered satisfactory).
Many people think that Zoro is done after his defeat of King in 1035. That he has no important role (at least not a combat one) to play for the remainder of the arc.
I think the opinion is misguided. Zoro still has two very important plotlines that have yet to receive any sort of resolution in this arc.
Oden and Enma
Kaido repeatedly drew a connection between Zoro, Enma and Oden:
That connection has yet to have any payoff to date. If Zoro is done for after the King defeat, then pray tell, what was the purpose of these scenes?
Even at the end of the King fight, Zoro still had not yet reached Oden's mastery of Enma. He says that fighting with Enma fully unleashed would kill him:
Meanwhile, Oden could wield Enma as if it were as light as a feather:
However, Zoro has been setup to surpass Oden's mastery of Enma. To accomplish that which Oden could not do:
This still has no payoff yet.
Finally, Kaido's declaration that there shall never be a "monster samurai" of the likes of Kozuki Oden has still not been proven wrong:
Kaido needs to eat those words and acknowledge that such a samurai has been born.
This leads me to expect a second confrontation between Zoro and Kaido.
Here's a much more thorough explanation of the Oden argument.
Ryuma
Zoro has a storyline involving Ryuma and the people have Wano that has still not yet met its conclusion.
When Zoro first came to Wano, he was scorned as a murderer and grave robber:
Someone who stole Wano's national treasure and caused misfortune to befall the country as they incurred the wrath of the Sword God:
Even the person most sympathetic to Zoro (Hiyori) insisted that he return their treasure:
Stressing that it's revered as a relic:
Yet, Zoro is going to visit Ryuma's grave after the end of the war:
Before that visit, he needs to be acknowledged as a hero to the people of Wano. He must be vindicated. Ryuma's soul and Shusui itself personally chose Zoro after all:
Saving Wano in its most dire moment and coincidentally replicating Ryuma's legend vindicates Zoro.
Defeating King does not. None of the people in the Flower Capital cares about King. King is not the source of their torment and oppression. He was never a threat to them. Kaido is.
ZKK isn't necessary to get a Ryuma parallel. It doesn't need to happen for the fanservice of Zoro cutting a dragon. It's actually important for Zoro's character that he's vindicated in this way to the people of Wanokuni.
This is what I mean when I tell the detractors: "you don't even understand ZKK". Their complaints don't actually engage with the theory. They just refute and debunk a caricature of the theory, not the actual theory.
Here's a much more detailed explanation of the Ryuma argument.
The Ryuma argument was never solely about Zoro paralleling Ryuma by slaying a dragon.
- It's a conclusion to Zoro's plot threads with Shusui, Ryuma and Enma.
- Plot threads that began long ago in Thriller Bark.
- It's a vindication of Zoro's character.
- He'll transform from a grave robber and murderer to a National Hero.
- And it's an important step in the forging of Zoro's own legend.
- He will be recognised as the "Second Ryuma":
Oda already laid the groundwork for this by highlighting Zoro's connection to Ryuma at the start of his battle with King:
- He will be recognised as the "Second Ryuma":
Conclusions
To leave these plot lines unresolved would be a massive disservice to Zoro's character. Furthermore, these two plotlines cannot be addressed anywhere else but in Wano itself. There is no realistic way to address them outside the Wanokuni arc. The context that makes the accomplishments meaningful are all tier to Wano.
- Matching or surpassing Oden's calibre as a swordsman has no meaning outside of Wano.
- Oden was Wano's heir apparent and the rightful Shogun.
- He was their greatest samurai in recent history.
- His dream was to open Wano's borders.
- Enma is a sword that hails from Wano.
- It is Kaido who declared that a monster samurai of Oden's calibre shall never be seen again.
- Becoming the Second Ryuma has no meaning outside of Wano.
- He slew a dragon over the Wano Flower Capital.
- Ryuma is regarded as the "God of the Blade" to the people of Wano.
- Shusui is considered a holy relic.
- He's Wano's national hero and saviour.
- His myth and legend do not exist outside the land of Wano.
If these plotlines are not resolved in Wano, they will simply never be resolved at all (at least not in any manner that can be considered satisfactory).
@Afroking
@Artorias
@bblue
@Benn beck
@bennbeckman
@BidaPowersTV
@Bittersteel
@Bogard
@Chocolatemuppet
@Buggy D Clown
@Bullet
@Camie
@Celestial D. Dragon
@Chaves
@Cinera
@comrade
@Constantine
@Crooc
@Cross_Marian
@Cyrus the Cactus
@Dark Hound
@Dark Knight Sanji
@DarkWitch
@Den_Den_Mushi
@Dr. Spook
@dynamight
@Elcadar
@Emperor
@Enma
@Fenaker
@Finalbeta
@Fleet Admiral Lee Hung
@Flower
@Fn Lucci
@Foxy Bunny
@Fukki
@Garp the Fist
@Garps tekkai
@Gauntlet
@Gensui Sazid
@Geo
@Gol D. Roger
@Gon’s Missing Arm
@Greenbeard
@Grumpy Zoro
@Guan Yu
@Guymieux
@h_zorothegoat
@HA001
@HAJIKATA
@Hanzo hattori
@haoshoku
@HeroesNZ
@Herrera95
@Himura
@I'mTired
@Ice devil slayer
@IceWitch
@Im_not_Osama_bin_laden
@Jack
@Jackteo
@Jew D. Boy
@JioFreed
@K!NG HARA$H!MA
@KageyamaShoyo
@Kejon
@KenshiraSonata
@KINGKONGGUN15
@KiriNigiri
@Kiwipom
@Kuro Ashi
@kurwa
@Lucas
@Luffy bin Dragon
@Luffy is the mc
@LuffyMazino
@Luslec
@LuthonTheDragDown
@Marco
@Marimo_420
@marimoheado
@MarineHQ62
@MasterD
@matt245
@Midnight Delight
@Mikail
@Monet
@Monkey D Theories
@Monster trio
@MonsterZoro
@Mr. Anderson
@Murilo
@Nidai_Kitetsu
@nik87
@Oblivion
@OmegaPsyche
@Orojackson Refugee
@Parker
@Patryipe
@pedxi
@PerfectHie
@PizzaBread
@playa4321
@princeley
@Punpun
@queen
@RayanOO
@Reborn
@Reddot4
@rednose
@ReggieZoldyck21
@rerere
@Rivaille
@Robin swan
@Roronoa-sama
@Rosella.Fiamingo
@Rukusho
@RyumaZoro
@RZ.119
@Sade
@SaintBellkin
@Sakazuki-Singh
@Sakura no Hiluluk
@Salah WG
@Sanji D Cook
@Sentinel
@Seth
@Shadowlord123
@ShadowStyle369
@ShadyOjiro
@SHIHI
@ShinmenTakezo
@Shiroyru
@ShishioIsBack
@silverfire
@SinOfGreed
@Skiddo
@SmokedOut
@Soleus
@solis
@spawn
@Starbound Beast D. Draig
@stormylife
@style
@Sunita
@Sword God Ryuma
@T.D.A
@Tamerani
@Tenshi No Konan
@ten yaksha blother
@Thabeast
@TheKnightOfTheSea
@Tobi
@Topi Jerami
@Trafalgar_D_Law
@Usopp Haoshoku Haki
@Van
@Veljko
@Vonal
@WillOfMyD
@Winsmoke Sanji
@worst pirate
@Xione
@Xlaw
@yj
@Yo Tan Wa
@yorosenpai
@Yukihime
@yunzabit heights
@Zenos7
@ZenZu
@Zoro
@Zoro D Goat
@ZoroIsOverrated
@zorojurou
@ZoroSlaysDragonTuna
@Zowo
@Artorias
@bblue
@Benn beck
@bennbeckman
@BidaPowersTV
@Bittersteel
@Bogard
@Chocolatemuppet
@Buggy D Clown
@Bullet
@Camie
@Celestial D. Dragon
@Chaves
@Cinera
@comrade
@Constantine
@Crooc
@Cross_Marian
@Cyrus the Cactus
@Dark Hound
@Dark Knight Sanji
@DarkWitch
@Den_Den_Mushi
@Dr. Spook
@dynamight
@Elcadar
@Emperor
@Enma
@Fenaker
@Finalbeta
@Fleet Admiral Lee Hung
@Flower
@Fn Lucci
@Foxy Bunny
@Fukki
@Garp the Fist
@Garps tekkai
@Gauntlet
@Gensui Sazid
@Geo
@Gol D. Roger
@Gon’s Missing Arm
@Greenbeard
@Grumpy Zoro
@Guan Yu
@Guymieux
@h_zorothegoat
@HA001
@HAJIKATA
@Hanzo hattori
@haoshoku
@HeroesNZ
@Herrera95
@Himura
@I'mTired
@Ice devil slayer
@IceWitch
@Im_not_Osama_bin_laden
@Jack
@Jackteo
@Jew D. Boy
@JioFreed
@K!NG HARA$H!MA
@KageyamaShoyo
@Kejon
@KenshiraSonata
@KINGKONGGUN15
@KiriNigiri
@Kiwipom
@Kuro Ashi
@kurwa
@Lucas
@Luffy bin Dragon
@Luffy is the mc
@LuffyMazino
@Luslec
@LuthonTheDragDown
@Marco
@Marimo_420
@marimoheado
@MarineHQ62
@MasterD
@matt245
@Midnight Delight
@Mikail
@Monet
@Monkey D Theories
@Monster trio
@MonsterZoro
@Mr. Anderson
@Murilo
@Nidai_Kitetsu
@nik87
@Oblivion
@OmegaPsyche
@Orojackson Refugee
@Parker
@Patryipe
@pedxi
@PerfectHie
@PizzaBread
@playa4321
@princeley
@Punpun
@queen
@RayanOO
@Reborn
@Reddot4
@rednose
@ReggieZoldyck21
@rerere
@Rivaille
@Robin swan
@Roronoa-sama
@Rosella.Fiamingo
@Rukusho
@RyumaZoro
@RZ.119
@Sade
@SaintBellkin
@Sakazuki-Singh
@Sakura no Hiluluk
@Salah WG
@Sanji D Cook
@Sentinel
@Seth
@Shadowlord123
@ShadowStyle369
@ShadyOjiro
@SHIHI
@ShinmenTakezo
@Shiroyru
@ShishioIsBack
@silverfire
@SinOfGreed
@Skiddo
@SmokedOut
@Soleus
@solis
@spawn
@Starbound Beast D. Draig
@stormylife
@style
@Sunita
@Sword God Ryuma
@T.D.A
@Tamerani
@Tenshi No Konan
@ten yaksha blother
@Thabeast
@TheKnightOfTheSea
@Tobi
@Topi Jerami
@Trafalgar_D_Law
@Usopp Haoshoku Haki
@Van
@Veljko
@Vonal
@WillOfMyD
@Winsmoke Sanji
@worst pirate
@Xione
@Xlaw
@yj
@Yo Tan Wa
@yorosenpai
@Yukihime
@yunzabit heights
@Zenos7
@ZenZu
@Zoro
@Zoro D Goat
@ZoroIsOverrated
@zorojurou
@ZoroSlaysDragonTuna
@Zowo
Firstly, Oden did want to kill Kaido. The importance of offing Kaido in order for Wano to be free has been reiterated again and again since then including by Yasuie and all the Scabbards, otherwise they wouldn't be so desperate to snuff the life out of Kaido.
Secondly, I think you should read this:
Additionally, Zoro cutting WG ships on the waterfall is no different from cutting King's flame dragon in Onigashima: no one from the capital saw it. Any credit to Zoro from the Wano people is a hearsay at best in that case.
ZKK above the skies of Wano is something the whole of Wano could and should see, hear, and comprehend. There's a symbolism there that cannot be replaced by fending off WG ships in a waterfall people have to move heaven and earth just to reach let alone see. It means the legend of Ryuma is reenacted meaningfully and tangibly, and a new dawn is bound for Wano.
Secondly, I think you should read this:
Fully agree with your analysis and especially with what you wrote here:
ZKK isn't necessary to get a Ryuma parallel. It doesn't need to happen for the fanservice of Zoro cutting a dragon. It's actually important for Zoro's character that he's vindicated in this way to the people of Wanokuni.
This is what I mean when I tell the detractors: "you don't even understand ZKK". Their complaints don't actually engage with the theory. They just refute and debunk a caricature of the theory, not the actual theory.
ZKK is also something that will fufill Kaido. He is the one that is annoncing that only 1 dragon will remain in Wano when he met Momosuke. He is the one that said: yes that it, that sense of determination!! I love the way of the samurai. It may not be the way of the times anymore but death is what completes a person. Isnt that true?
Kaido loves the way of the samurai. The way of the samurai involves looking for a good place to die.
Kaido is not the classical antagonist, he is the strongest creature in One Piece, he is a Yonko, and he is a dragon. He saw how brutal this world is but one aspect he trully loves: I love the way of the samurai which ironically is the title for chapter 1036:
The way of Bushidō is found in death
Zoro from the start was always following the way of the bushido.
ZKK isn't necessary to get a Ryuma parallel. It doesn't need to happen for the fanservice of Zoro cutting a dragon. It's actually important for Zoro's character that he's vindicated in this way to the people of Wanokuni.
This is what I mean when I tell the detractors: "you don't even understand ZKK". Their complaints don't actually engage with the theory. They just refute and debunk a caricature of the theory, not the actual theory.
ZKK is also something that will fufill Kaido. He is the one that is annoncing that only 1 dragon will remain in Wano when he met Momosuke. He is the one that said: yes that it, that sense of determination!! I love the way of the samurai. It may not be the way of the times anymore but death is what completes a person. Isnt that true?
Kaido loves the way of the samurai. The way of the samurai involves looking for a good place to die.
The way of Bushidō is found in death
Zoro from the start was always following the way of the bushido.
ZKK above the skies of Wano is something the whole of Wano could and should see, hear, and comprehend. There's a symbolism there that cannot be replaced by fending off WG ships in a waterfall people have to move heaven and earth just to reach let alone see. It means the legend of Ryuma is reenacted meaningfully and tangibly, and a new dawn is bound for Wano.
He’s not done. He’ll be down for a good few chapters but he’ll still do something else before Wano is done.
It should be against Kaido but Oda already deciding to draw a big Ryuma/Oden paralleling doublespread of him taking down a dragon when there was absolutely no need for King to make one has given that idea a big hit for me. There was simply no need for King to have a magma dragon, especially not if Oda is planning another “Zoro takes on a dragon“ scene.
So I’m 100% certain that Zoro will do something else, but only 50% sure that something else will be against Kaido.
It should be against Kaido but Oda already deciding to draw a big Ryuma/Oden paralleling doublespread of him taking down a dragon when there was absolutely no need for King to make one has given that idea a big hit for me. There was simply no need for King to have a magma dragon, especially not if Oda is planning another “Zoro takes on a dragon“ scene.
So I’m 100% certain that Zoro will do something else, but only 50% sure that something else will be against Kaido.
