Chapter Discussion One Piece - Chapter 971: Sentenced to Boil

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wordyworm

I am not really on board with denjirovas kyoshiro. Kyoshiro seems to be well known yakuza people feared him as he was rutless yakuza leader who extroted money denjiro is pretty much opposite to kyoshiros personality actually the guy lend money to poor wano people which points my witching hour boy theory. The fact hiyori didnt recognize him or revealed himself to her is huge red flag.
Yeah, I admit there is a hole in Denjiro=Kyoshiro, which is Kyoshiro's apparent current-day loyalty and respect. But a lot of the Scabbards had to adopt new identities, so the ponytail flipped around in a big blue pompadour gag is valid for me. And both characters deal in money. The question is how did he rise to power?

Another thing sanji kun keeps bringing otsuru face changed over time but kinemon recognized her instantly.
Oda's aging of women is... sometimes unpredictable. Otsuru is classical adult woman Japanese beauty. She's just fancy that way and of course Kin would recognize his old crush.

I dunno if its really kyoshiro its fine for me i always thought he didnt like shogun from chapter 1 in wano.
I wouldn't bet my house on the idea, but I think he's the best option. You raise some good points too. If I'm Hawkins, I'd give myself about 79% chance of being correct. How about you? :-D

How did he became yakuza ? Technically Hyo already had rivals in yakuzafaction. Remember kinemon stole pig mountain god from the thieves.

Hyo was already jailed wasnt he and denjiro was lending money in wano so i am not sure they ever meet.
Yeah, I'm not 100% that Hyou had to do with it. Just wondering. I also imagine that Denjiro would be very much involved in local gambling -- he might have a lot of connections that allowed him to become a Yakuza boss.

Also, I can't stop reading that word as "Yakuzafication" and I'm gonna use that now...
 
H

Homelander

That referred to the Shimotsuki village he is located at. It's technically his hometown. Especially since he probably fled Wano and had to cover his identity. I doubt the vivre card would spoil Koshiro came from Wano. I mean, Denjiro looks exactly like Koshiro. Plus, Denjiro seems to have the Wado Ichimonji. Kyoshiro looks completely different. Not only his hair but also his face.
I am not sure on this denjiro looks pretty tall imo , i dont remember koshiri was that tall. Also kuina was born in east blue so its hard to see both are same person.
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Why the hell is Kaidou so small?
Cause he didnt drink milk back then.
 
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wordyworm

That referred to the Shimotsuki village he is located at. It's technically his hometown. Especially since he probably fled Wano and had to cover his identity. I doubt the vivre card would spoil Koshiro came from Wano. I mean, Denjiro looks exactly like Koshiro. Plus, Denjiro seems to have the Wado Ichimonji. Kyoshiro looks completely different. Not only his hair but also his face.
I disagree but your logic is sound and I hope to find out the answer soon!
 
H

Homelander

Yeah, I admit there is a hole in Denjiro=Kyoshiro, which is Kyoshiro's apparent current-day loyalty and respect. But a lot of the Scabbards had to adopt new identities, so the ponytail flipped around in a big blue pompadour gag is valid for me. And both characters deal in money. The question is how did he rise to power?



Oda's aging of women is... sometimes unpredictable. Otsuru is classical adult woman Japanese beauty. She's just fancy that way and of course Kin would recognize his old crush.


I wouldn't bet my house on the idea, but I think he's the best option. You raise some good points too. If I'm Hawkins, I'd give myself about 79% chance of being correct. How about you? :-D



Yeah, I'm not 100% that Hyou had to do with it. Just wondering. I also imagine that Denjiro would be very much involved in local gambling -- he might have a lot of connections that allowed him to become a Yakuza boss.

Also, I can't stop reading that word as "Yakuzafication" and I'm gonna use that now...
I am on 50 percent . It can be flip.

Kyoshiros profession matches with denjiro. He seems pretty smart as well and does share harbour against orochi and mocking him in chapter 1.

Making lies about orochi being wicked fool is good way to gain trust and revenge.

Flip side is
Denjiro does not seem ruthless , wouldnt risk hiyoris life and allow herself to be hunted by kamazou which kyoshiro kinda did.
 
That referred to the Shimotsuki village he is located at. It's technically his hometown. Especially since he probably fled Wano and had to cover his identity. I doubt the vivre card would spoil Koshiro came from Wano. I mean, Denjiro looks exactly like Koshiro. Plus, Denjiro seems to have the Wado Ichimonji. Kyoshiro looks completely different. Not only his hair but also his face.
Koshiro is also half Denjiro's height and we know Koshiro's father remember.

Koshiro's father is Kouzaburou who left Wano before Koshiro was even born. How did Koshiro end up being born in Wano and grow up as an orphan in Wano when his father was in East blue before he was born and then somehow Koshiro managed to leave wano and go to east blue 22 years ago and start his dojo and have a family and then come back to Wano 20 years ago and take part in all this bullshit

Are you seeing how the time lines don't match? Some people say Kuina was born in Wano so then why though? We know that at the time of Kuina's birth, The only thing Koshiro cared about was her beige a girl who couldn't suc d his dojo. This was supposedly happening at the same time as Oden dancing around, Wano being occupied by Kaido and Orochi and the country being polluted. And yet Koshiro apparently really cared about this dojo he had.
 
H

Homelander

the question is she really a prostitute ?or is she just pretending to be one to take the money form bad people like the b*ngo trio :D
Technically oiran are not prostitutes. They were high society women who were meant to entertain rich folks.

Oiran had the choice whom they should sleep with. Technically they were like high maintainence eunuch.
 
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Homelander

I mean, she had to have done this for years to gain the fame as the bestbin the country. If her job was prostitution, it e ould be weird for the number one prostitute to go for years without ever putting out
Actually no, i doubt she slept with anyone. She was also musician and entertained people in palace , oiran does not necessarily translated to prostitutes which is wrong term in english. They were respected in feudel japan.
 
That might be Oda being inconsistent with heights. Dunno. We will see. But I am very certain Koshiro = Denjiro.
What about the Kouzaburou thing? That's definitely Koshiro's father right?
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I mean Oda always had problems with proportions but holy shit, this is a new low
But this is just a theory though. Can't start saying Oda messed up until it's proven to be true and then you can say he did.

That's why I'm pretty sure this isn't true. It would be ridiculous to say Denjiro was supposed to be half the height of the rest if the Scabbards and then constantly fail to show it even in that sunset panel with all the Scabbards lined up.
 
But the most user don´t speak about that event but more about the 5 years overall in whole, you guys didn´t can tell me that Oden didn´t even had the chance to build up a plan together with Hyo who he visited most time, that he didn´t have the chance to build up a plan together with the Daiymos. I mean his plan to kill Kaido wasn´t a bad plan, the current alliance try the same aswell.
He don´t even need Whitebeard/Roger pirates, alone with the power of himself and Hyo+Samurai it would be enough to take out Kaido and his crew. I know Oden didn´t want that people getting killed in this big war, but he didn´t have any other choice to take out Kaido either if he didn´t fight back.
Well, I don't really see the difference, except that you and others seem to think the 5 years took too long. Maybe so, but 5 years is just a period Oda has decided on, anything else doesn't really make a difference, and it turned out, they weren't enough to take out Kaido and crew, although that can be seen as the luck of war.
And I actually don't think people's issue is the 5 years, but that they don't see the point of showing Oden's character at all, and even forget that he did try to take out Kaido (and I guess when they were first introduced, they just sparred a bit together), but what they want is him doing nothing else but fighting. That may be a valid wish, but it doesn't make Oden such a huge idiot as they think, they are really just trying to be cool.
Two weeks ago Kaido got his trashtalking, but then mood swung for basically no reason but that I guess he is the bad guy, and that makes him cooler after all... (And maybe started by Jo Ndules nonsense lie thread about Kaido, which coincidentally is the biggest contradiction in displaying Oden as a coward and noodle-spined weasel to make its point... [which I bet would be more popular]).

In the end all Daiymos get killed, Hyo wife get killed and many other so much people, wano 20years later is a totally mess up. Oden should think about the consequences if Orochi would still rule over Wano, someone who want everyone in wano to suffer. I doubt that even Oden believe the shitty deal with Kaido and Orochi, someone who try to kill off Momosuke.
Yeah, that was sort of behind the back, and outside of anything else. I don't think Hyo is the all-decisive factor, and if so, they could have freed him first. I bet Oda himself didn't think it matters that much, and after all his story has a main point and is not concerning himself with all possible details. This is also important to keep in mind: as a flashback character, Oden doesn't have the plot armor someone else might have.
And his actions DID have some effect, at least to all appearances. It was just the deal he made, and they did something outside of that deal (maybe not even part of it), which he then took action on.

He had ways to prevent that, to stop Orochi and Kaido. That is the most point of many user here who criticism the decision of Oden
Wishful thinking, and again: it wasn't Hyo, but mainly his wife. You are basically making her "all of Wano", or the "whole disaster of Wano", when in truth (or apparently), he was doing what he could to save hundreds others. It is inconsistent to say "I understand that", but also pretend he did a huge f-ck up by having a slightly different, more "honourable" character, and saving hundreds instead of doing a sudden turnaround to prevent Hyo's wife's untimely demise.


This is all just way overblownwishful thinking, head-canon and hate for hate's sake.

But I want try to understand the decision of Oden, I want to try to explain why Oden didn´t make a alliance with Hyo and co.
It is simple answer but I think it is overall about Oden pride, he was shown as the Men who handle everything alone, even if he let his retainer to come with him, he most like want to take out anything alone and be honest that is most like the point. He most like feel guilty for everything which happen in wano because he wasn´t their because of his adventure with Whitebeard. I think overall how Oda build up Oden character, that he want to save his country on his own as he feel guilty for all the bad things who happen in Wano because of him. More and more I read about the flashback, that is how Oda build up Oden character, his pride and badass decicion was something which was most fascinating about Oden character but also that is his most like his biggest weakeness in sametime. He didn´t want help from Whitebeard or Roger pirates, he didn´t want Hyo to suffer for all the things who happen because of him, he try to save the country on his own, different then Luffy who fighting together with Wano against Kaido.

Be honest I criticism Oden decision aswell, but if we really look how Oda build up him as character, I finally understand why he don´t make any b plan or try to make a big alliance with Hyo and co, overall because of his Pride. People can hate it or love it how he handle the whole situation, but I think Oda make a great job at least in this one if it comes to Oden character.

He's principled in his decision, pride doesn't really factor into it, and he is the strongest, simply meaning that another plan would still have relied on better luck. one could also say: his attack - which again did happen - was his plan B. There you have it. Just minus Hyo, but again Oda said: let's get right to business.
 
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